This is really a good post on reddit

[leftcoastmountains]

It's basically how I feel. I think Hillary was the stronger debater.
It doesn't mean I'm going to change my mind. Bernie believes
what he says she does not.

-snip--------------------------------------------------------------------
It is striking to see that the front page of this subreddit is filled up with references to Bernie winning last night's debate as measured by 11 person focus groups and CNN online "live debate polling".

Cut it out. I'm a Bernie supporter, and he didn't win the debate last night. Hillary did. It's not the end of the world. I think there are some big takeaways from this debate that will allow us to adjust our message and tactics going forward, but please, let's not peddle a narrative that makes us seem completely out of touch.

Let's just take a quick look at the sort of evidence present on this subreddit illustrating Bernie won the debate:

First, the "focus" groups indicating Bernie won. Apparently there were three. I clicked on the most upvoted one. There were 11 people. They were all 18-34 year olds. If that's what we have to go on to indicate Bernie won, let's just stop.

Second, the "Who won the debate polls?" There's this unspoken knowledge that we all hit those polls hard (they were posted numerous times in this subreddit of 120,000), almost unanimously voted for Sanders regardless of what we actually thought of the debate, and then we reference those same polls as legitimate measures of how the debate went and complain about the MSM saying Hillary won in the face of those polls.

The Reality

Hillary won quite clearly. While Bernie got off to a rough start, getting hit on guns and appearing off guard of foreign policy, Hillary seemed extremely well prepared for even the toughest issues she faces (emails, Iraq vote). She performed really, really strongly. She didn't seem too aggressive, but was certainly forceful, and appeared very knowledgeable on the issues. As such, she was able to allay fears that she was unexciting, and potentially a crumbling candidate.

Bernie, meanwhile, drew a lot of the same rhetoric from his stump speech, but failed to articulate why his vision was more compelling when Hillary would respond with things like "I too, have a tuition-free college plan, and mine is even more feasible." On the hallmark progressive issues of Bernie's campaign (criminal justice reform, social welfare programs, paid family and medical leave, wealth and income inequality, better education systems), Hillary essentially agreed and gave a "more polished" response. Other issues where distinctions should have been much more clear, they were also not (i.e. single payer, campaign finance).

O'Malley perfomed well, but it likely wasn't a breakout performance. Chafee and Webb are done.


https://www.reddit.com/r/SandersForPresident/comments/3oqax1/no_bernie_didnt_win_the_debate_last_night/

[swilton]

1. I think this perspective is overly critical of Sanders

To me it's how you define 'win' - yes he may have been off-stride on issues like gun control and foreign policy but he was on stride in so many areas - his introductory remarks for example - his 'damn emails' performance.

At the end of the day all he had to do was deflate the Clinton is invincible myth - he did more than that...and not just because of that he was/is backed up by his record...All of this came across very clearly and introduced Sanders and furthered his command of the issues that will compose the Democratic Party platform.

[SoapBox]

2. Agree.

Nit-picking over one or two points, seems to me that some were just looking for reasons to say he "lost" or that he "lost" them. Issues are complex and any candidate that can answer smoothly in 10 words or so, is a phony.

Those of us that have followed him and his platform know that he is who we need to change the course that America is on.

She may have been "polished" (hell...she should be...she's had a lot of experience in tons of debates) but that doesn't mean squat when it comes to real change...I don't trust her to make one single change.

I remain 100% committed to Bernie.

[jomin41]

3. Thanks, I needed that...

[aspirant]

4. You cut it out

That's your opinion, not mine.

"Debate polls" where are the HRC supporters hitting these polls hard. Have you forgotten all the unscientific phone polls have her leading by double digits. Are all these people computer ignorant and can't click on to vote?

"and then we reference those same polls as legitimate measures of how the debate went and complain about the MSM saying Hillary won in the face of those polls". Paid pundits are now and forever the determining factor on who won, please? Bernie supports the people and even stated that the is MSM corrupt.

The tough issues:
1)Iraq Vote, just how did she convince All Americans and Bernie voters that her vote was wonderful for this country when Bernie exclaimed it was one of the worst votes of all time?
2)"She didn't seem too aggressive" like when she keep over talking the moderators when they were trying to enforce the time limit rules. Remember when Bernie was told he must listen at NRN?
3)"allay fears that she was unexciting, and potentially a crumbling candidate". So tell exactly how excited were her supporters on these online polls, where are they?
4)"Bernie, meanwhile, drew a lot of the same rhetoric from his stump speech" I thought his purpose was to introduce himself to millions who never heard of him before, but I guess you are suggesting every single American has heard his stump speech many times.
5)"I too, have a tuition-free college plan, and mine is even more feasible." and then we find out she wants students to work for their tuition because she and her mama were hard workers.
6)"gave a "more polished" response". interpretation: a typical corporate non-answer like the Glass Steagall issue and breaking up the banks with Dodd Frank

I think I must remind you that the SOP for this group is to elect Bernie and please tell me how your thread does that? Maybe you should delete and take it to GDP