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(6,440 posts)
Sat Nov 7, 2015, 05:47 AM Nov 2015

Building the movement

Bernie has made it very clear that he doesn't want to be seen as some sort of messiah. And whilst I don't want to catapult the propaganda about Hillary's inevitability, we have to at least consider the possibility that Bernie may not be the next POTUS. Therefore, I wanted to start a thread on building an alternative economy that can function whoever is in the White House at any given time. I found this article on a traditionalist Catholic website, and whilst most of us here are not part of the intended audience, I thought it contained some useful information nonetheless. I hope that others will chime in with additional solutions to reclaim the American economy from the oligarchs.


5 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Building the movement (Original Post) nxylas Nov 2015 OP
Good reference eridani Nov 2015 #1
I agree with Dr. Wolff Demeter Nov 2015 #2
I don't want to discourage those working to get Bernie elected nxylas Nov 2015 #4
I'm thinking Iceland (I hate the tropics) Demeter Nov 2015 #5
The only alternative to President Sanders instituting Top-Down Economic Reform Demeter Nov 2015 #3


(51,907 posts)
1. Good reference
Sat Nov 7, 2015, 07:35 AM
Nov 2015

Richard Wolff https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_D._Wolff says that capitalism will never be overthrown, but it will collapse, and that we absolutely must have alternatives in place for our very survival. We will need to go on with this regardless of what happens to Sanders next year--and he keeps saying so himself.



(85,373 posts)
2. I agree with Dr. Wolff
Sat Nov 7, 2015, 08:10 AM
Nov 2015

The only hope we have of surviving with an intact economy is Bernie. He is the only one willing to recognize the danger of economic collapse, and work to prevent it.

Hillary will continue the policies that have driven us into the ground, because that is what the people who pay her want. And I don't mean us ordinary taxpayers...I mean the extraordinary tax dodgers.


(6,440 posts)
4. I don't want to discourage those working to get Bernie elected
Sat Nov 7, 2015, 09:48 AM
Nov 2015

But what if he isn't? Do we then just roll over and accept what's coming to us? And if he is elected, there is only so much a president can do by himself, even if Congress is on his side. Bernie has said repeatedly that he needs a mass movement behind him. "Vote for me and I'll solve all America's problems with the sheer force of my personality" is Trump's message, not Sanders's.



(85,373 posts)
5. I'm thinking Iceland (I hate the tropics)
Sat Nov 7, 2015, 10:13 AM
Nov 2015

Those who have choices will move, those that don't will have to start over, picking up pieces, cleaning the mess.

It's just like 1929, all over again, except for two things:

1) we aren't allowed to do any of the things that worked that we learned about from 1929 (unless and until the 1% are marched to the gallows)

2) the next World War will probably end humanity's habitation of the Earth entirely, except for those willing and able to live on a Neolithic scale, and located in a place that isn't too badly damaged.

I'm not exaggerating the potential downside here. Even with Bernie, and a national effort that grows to a global effort to recover sanity in the financial world and the environment, it's going to be a high-risk, low probability scenario around the globe.



(85,373 posts)
3. The only alternative to President Sanders instituting Top-Down Economic Reform
Sat Nov 7, 2015, 08:16 AM
Nov 2015

is the much more perilous Survivalist/Return to the Land/grass-roots co-op scheme.

The problem with that is, too damn few individuals in this country are willing to recognize the danger, take the chance and do the homework. It's not a one-person job, not even a one-family job, unless it's a fairly large and cohesive family with a lot of productive land and resources at their command.

How many people do you know that would have your back in a pact to ensure mutual economic survival of the group? Even churches, which would be the ideal starting point, are so corrupt and ignorant that the scheme is laughable on its face.

The UU congregation I used to attend was heading in that direction, but then, everybody in charge retired and it turned into a latter-day Hippie/Holy Roller performance art scene. All the social justice and environmental stewardship went out the window.

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