FINALLY!! America's flagship newspaper acknowledges that Bernie is more electable than Hillary!!

[Green Forest]

Cross posted in GDP (this is my first OP here, though)

"...Sanders, buoyed by the support of independent voters, outperforms Mrs. Clinton in hypothetical general-election matchups in both states among registered voters."

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/01/10/bernie-sanders-makes-strong-showing-in-new-polls/

I love it. The New York Times is sticking a fork in Hillary's and Bill's recent electability argument.

Some folks who make a habit of posting national election polls as if the primaries are all over would just love it if Bernie's supporters get disheartened enough to forget that it is independent voters who decide the general election.

Well, that ain't gonna happen! It has become clear even to the MSM's flagship establishment newspaper that Bernie Sanders is the most electable candidate in a general election matchup, not Hillary.

Most, if not all, IA and NH polls do not even take into account first-time voters so IMAGINE what is going to happen in Iowa and NH when millennial voters turn out as they did eight years ago for another Senator who was second place in the polls!

Looks like The People will vote for Change just as they did in 2008. Tomorrow, I am going to a Bernie campaign organizational meeting led by Zack Exley. I can't wait!

Definitely Feeling The Bern here in upstate NY... yep, I think another donation to Bernie is coming on... GO BERNIE!

[tecelote]

1. So...

Hillary was inevitable.

Bernie was unelectable.

'Feeling the Bern!

[LongTomH]

2. Bernie addressed this last night, at the rally in Des Moines, IA

Hundreds showed up, despite low, single digit temperatures, with a wind chill that must have been below zero.

Bernie quipped: "In Vermont, we'd think this was warm!"

[in_cog_ni_to]

3. Independents make up 43%

Of the voting public!
Democrats can now claim only 30% who identify as Democrats.
Republicans have only 26% who will actually admit to being a Republican.

Damn right Independents will decide this election and we all know most of them lean left and the majority of those will be voting for Bernie. Throw Millennials into the fray - they overwhelmingly support Bernie, and he's won the election. Both the Primary and the GE!

PEACE ✌
LOVE ❤
BERNIE

[MisterP]

5. the Dems decided to burn the party down for the insurance money

[libdem4life]

6. So, that leaves us with the heartening chore of building it up and back into a Big Tent.

[greiner3]

80. It's been a century and a half

Since one of the two major parties changed their name and enough of the underlying party philosophy. Why is now NOT the time to rectify the lost decades. IMO of course and I am not proposing in the least never would even consider such an idea because I think a lot of trolls in this board may try to get this post hidden and maybe tombstone me a few years before that becomes necessary

[bvar22]

83. "Big Tent" is OK,

as long as we all remember that there is NO ROOM in our Big Tent for those who advance the agenda of THE RICH at the expense of the Working Class and The Poor.

[in_cog_ni_to]

8. It's sad what the party has become.

Republican lite and it stands for greed over its constituents. Who would ever think a Democratic president would ever, in a million years, offer up Social Security as a bargaining chip to Republicans?! It's outrageous and we have to stop that crap in its tracks! We NEED Bernie. SS is definitely up for the chopping block if anyone but Bernie becomes president. I don't trust HRH, as far as I can throw her, to protect SS.

PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

13. "It's sad what the party has become."

Yes it is, but I smile when I realize how many people aren't falling for it!

[libdem4life]

81. Let's hope it's enough.

[JDPriestly]

9. You got it!

[bvf]

17. Couldn't agree more.

Democrats have been losing the ideological tug-of-war for a long time. It's as if the leadership is at the point of saying "fuck it," and pouring gasoline on everything in sight.

[leveymg]

48. Add to the 43 perc of Indy vote the 25 perc of the Obama voters who won't show for Hillary

And what you have is the GOP back in the White House.

[Enthusiast]

50. Which means more war and economic ruin.

[cprise]

56. That's a great way of putting it

I may quote you on that

[SoLeftIAmRight]

82. rebuild it from the ground up

i hope

want to help?

[Old Codger]

19. For sure

I am a registered independent, I changed my registration in order to be able to vote for Bernie in the primary.. Lot of us doing that this year...

[NJCher]

25. thank you

Old Codger. Glad you found your way to DU.



Cher

[Old Codger]

26. Regardless

Of the relatively low post count been here for about 8 years or so.. love this place usually, gotten a little tense lately but tolerable as long as ignore works

[NJCher]

36. yep

You know it's bad when you sign on to DU in the morning and before reading a single post, you get a request for jury duty!



Cher

[Old Codger]

37. Yep

Been there done that, but usually ridiculous reasons too..

[gordyfl]

55. Same Here

But we registered independents aren't counted in the polls.

[Old Codger]

67. Not a one

Never been polled on a presidential race...actually no on any political race...

[SammyWinstonJack]

65. THANK YOU!

[Enthusiast]

46. PLUS ONE, a huge bunch!

[A Simple Game]

62. With Bernie the Democrats have a good chance for a landslide election win, with Hillary

they have a good chance to lose.

Why is Hillary still in the race? What are her supporters even thinking?

[humbled_opinion]

68. I have been predicting

that where the rubber meets the road, in the voting booth, Democratic primary voters will use their commons sense and good judgement and see that Hillary is far too much of a risk with all of her past and present baggage to put forward in the GE.

[delrem]

87. That's a really nice sigline you've got.

Positive.
Buoyant.
Seeing a more gentle and livable future.

[in_cog_ni_to]

91. Thank you, delrem!

:

PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE

[merrily]

4. Nonetheless, the Democratic Party apparently would rather risk losing the general

than give Sanders a level playing field.

[senz]

28. It will be interesting to see how the DNC reacts to this.

[merrily]

33. My guess: it will continue down the same course it has been hell bent on for years.

[Enthusiast]

47. I share that impression.

[RoccoR5955]

7. Where in Upstate NY?

Here in the Hudson Valley, I have seen many Bernie signs and bumper stickers, NO Clinton bumper stickers or signs, and only one tRump bumper sticker.
Feelin' The Bern is catching on here like wildfire!

[ejbr]

10. Hudson Valley?

Fishkill here. I have my Bernie Bumper Sticker! You may have seen me.

[RoccoR5955]

15. I don't get around Fishkill much.

I live in Rosendale (between New Paltz and Kingston) and commute to Poughkeepsie every day for work. I do get to the north like Saugerties, and north to Albany, but not much to the South much any more.
I was hoping you were from the north country, or the central part of the state, which are the most conservative.

[ejbr]

16. I actually commute to Kingston

so, you still may have seen me. No, it is relatively blue around here... Sean Mahoney territory

[RoccoR5955]

23. Fishkill Blue?!?!

Don't make me laugh.
Yeah, you may have a Democratic congressman, but look at the locals. I work for Dutchess County Government, in the IT department. The only place that is near Fishkill that is blue is Beacon.

[ejbr]

24. Well, local politics is not my forte

But I don't mind making you laugh...

[RoccoR5955]

74. You should know that

LOCAL politics are where you can have the most impact. We need more Dems ESPECIALLY in Dutchess County. Especially active ones, with a head on their shoulders, who are willing to give it to the Cons that have had a lock on the County Legislature.

[Victor_c3]

70. I live in Cornwall and I pretty much see the same thing

Admittedly I don't see too many political bumper stickers at all. I probably see more old Obama stickers than anything else. After that, it's Sanders then generic tea party stickers. No Clinton stickers at all though.

[Green Forest]

86. Capital Region

Over 200 attended the Bernie campaign organizational meeting last night!

[bvf]

11. Thanks for posting this, Green Forest.

And thanks for your involvement--good luck at the meeting!

Can't wait to see the comments in GD-P.

[MissDeeds]

12. K&R

[Spitfire of ATJ]

14. They used to talk about the enthusiasm factor which drove the Obama campaign.

[senz]

29. What a beautiful thought: even more enthusiasm for Bernie.

Thank you.

[Green Forest]

85. You got it. I am an Obama Mama who volunteered in Iowa in 2007-2008. Now I am a Woman For Bernie!

I volunteered to host a Women For Bernie party next month. I can't wait!

[Spitfire of ATJ]

88. I'm going to caucus for Bernie here in Nevada.

[Green Forest]

89. That's wonderful! My brother and sister-in-law are doing the same.

They live in the foothills outside of Vegas. Where are you?

[Spitfire of ATJ]

90. Winchester area.

[Green Forest]

92. Do you think there will be any adverse effect on pro-Bernie caucusing from Harry Reid's pro-Clinton political machine?

I recall anti-Obama caucus supporter shenanigans in 2008.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

93. I picture people being brought in to make her side look bigger....

The only numbers that count are the actual registered voters.

I feel all states should have ballot primaries. This whole "caucus" deal goes back to the days when reading was rare.

[Green Forest]

94. I love caucuses. It is democracy in a pure form, about as close to grassroots as one can get.

I need to move to Iowa or next door to my brother in Vegas!

Hey, good luck! I am phonebanking like crazy for Bernie these days. I can't wait to start on Nevada!

[WillyT]

18. HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!!

[AzDar]

21. K & R

[jmowreader]

22. Riddle me this...

If a self-identifying socialist is on the general election ballot, how many people who have never voted before will register specifically to vote against him?

[NJCher]

30. I just really don't think that's an issue

Do you really think someone is going to say, "Oh, here's a guy who will stand up to Wall Street--we need that!

Oh, oops! He's a self-declared Socialist. Ratz. Won't vote for him."

The issues to which Bernie is speaking are way larger than a label.

And while we're on the topic, I've heard commentators say people won't vote for him because he's Jewish.

OK, so America will vote for an African American, but a Jew--never!



Cher

[jmowreader]

34. The people who would register to vote against him don't care about Wall Street

There are a LOT of people in America who KNOW they don't want a socialist in the White House - regardless of what good he could do for them.

[NorthCarolina]

75. There may be a "lot" of people in America who

"know" they won't vote for a "Socialist", but luckily for America they appear to be in the minority. The third-way politics of the 1980's and 90's is dead. Welcome to the new age, I'm sure it will be an exciting time for you. "President Sanders"; we haven't had one before....sounds nice doesn't it?

[JackRiddler]

38. Times have changed.

U.S. anti-communist fanaticism is the madness of a dying generation.

The people you think will be motivated to vote against a socialist have already done so. They voted against the imaginary socialist Barack Obama. For eight years everyone's been hearing that a socialist (Muslim, foreigner, you name it) took over America. And most people weren't swayed by it.

[NJCher]

42. agreed

You said that so well, there isn't a thing I can add to it.

Thank God those days are over.



Cher

[smokey nj]

43. None.

[senz]

27. Bernie's been working his ass off and deserves this but

so have we and so do we!

PEOPLE POWER!

[Jack Rabbit]

31. Mrs. Clinton has reached her high-water mark for 2016 before the first vote is cast

Last edited Sun Jan 10, 2016, 10:03 PM - Edit history (1)

It's time to take her and the oligarchy down, down, down.

[JackRiddler]

39. Oh my, she's been stuck at this level for 1000 years!?

[Jack Rabbit]

44. That's right, and she turned me into a Cnute. But it got better.

King Cnite's reign began in 1016. Like most dark age monarch, he was an oligarch.

[Katashi_itto]

32. Here in New Orleans I've seen nothing but Bernie stickers here.

Also seen campaign workers for Bernie regularly in the French Quarter

[zentrum]

35. Bernie's my guy

…..and this terrifies me because I think the Democratic political machine is fixing the election for a candidate that is unelectable in the general.

Yes, all we Democrats will for vote for the final nominee, no matter who it is, against any Repub—but Independents won't—they'll just stay home, along with many of the young people just entering politics who are ardent for Bernie.

The Clintons had their moment and it lasted a long time. The country is tired of them and underwhelmed by this eternal lingering.

[LS_Editor]

40. Psychic Warns Hillary Clinton of "Horrible Berning in 2016"

Hillary won't go quietly and she is going to kick up the donations from her rich pals, but we can beat her.

Psychic Warns Hillary Clinton of "Horrible Berning in 2016"

"It was a rough morning. Miss Cleo warned Secretary Clinton that 2016 contained some terrible 'Berning' for her. It was really weird, because the psychic actually told Hillary how to spell 'Berning,' and informed her it was a 'proper verb,' whatever the hell that is," stated the senior Hillary 2016 campaign staffer, who spoke to TNA on condition of anonymity.

Source: The Nil Admirari

[Uncle Joe]

41. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Green Forest.

[Recursion]

45. "In both states"

I think you missed that phrase in the article.

[Enthusiast]

49. Kicked and recommended!

They only acknowledge the truth that we all know. The truth that many Hillary supporters possibly already know too.

[Gmak]

51. Great News! I feel the same in that the Bernie support is underground to a large extent because so

much of it is Millenials who have been disengaged til now and independents who were Dems but got turned off by the DLC & Third Way machinations. Plus, Bernie has run a pitch-perfect campaign in getting out ahead of any questions that have come up about his candidacy, like; his democratic socialism, black lives matter, Wall Street reforms, and especially his electability in the general.

[ViseGrip]

52. Yay!

[Duckfan]

53. I love your first sentence: NY Times is sticking a fork in Hillary and Bills

electability argument. Wow. Awsome that they did. Maybe someone at the NY Times figured it was time they start eating their vegies.

[Still In Wisconsin]

54. It doesn't take a genius to realize HRC would be our most UN-electable candidate in quite some time.

People will turn out in droves to vote against Madam Weathervane, driven simply by their hatred of her, and a huge swath of the left-leaning electorate will simply go "meh" and- at best- hold their nose and vote for her. I don't know anyone planning on actually working for her. Almost nobody likes her- she's just been sold for all this time as "inevitable."

That and she is- again- running an absolute shit campaign.

[A Simple Game]

66. When she loses Iowa and New Hampshire the inevitability bubble gets popped

and Bernie will get an almost instantaneous 10% surge from people changing from Hillary's to Bernie's bandwagon.

[Still In Wisconsin]

73. Exactly, just like 2008. She was "inevitable" then too. Fact is HRC is just plain shit. n/t

[A Simple Game]

78. The only thing about Hillary is she is better than nothing, throw in another option

and inevitable becomes negligible.

[Still In Wisconsin]

84. Exactly... Hillary is like a stale peanut butter sandwich... better than nothing if you're starving-

otherwise, meh... throw it out in the yard for the birds and squirrels to eat.

[Betty Karlson]

57. Yes, the time has come for the newspapers to reconnect to reality.

Reporting echo-chambered fantasies of the 1 % is a bit past its time.

[99th_Monkey]

58. NYTimes pops Hillary's "inevitability" bubble. *poof*

and this is happening at the same time as this:
Chuck Todd: Clinton Camp VERY NERVOUS' About Sexual Assault/Rape Allegations http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=993603

[billhicks76]

59. Nail In Hillarys Coffin?

[democrank]

60. This is truly quite an achievement.

Bernie has done this without the support of the Democratic Party Machine or Democratic Party leaders and with very little meaningful coverage by mainstream media.

I expect Hillary Clinton to be way ahead in most polls given the fact that she has been on the national stage for decades and has the backing of party elites.

[Helen Borg]

61. Without their support???

It seems that Bernie did this DESPITE constant opposition by such leaders.

[AlbertCat]

76. DESPITE constant opposition by such leaders.

Can you imagine if they had gone for him?... Or even set up a level playing field?


Fantasies are fun....

like if Congress had worked with Obama what might we have now?


... but alas not real.


Sanders' place now, what with reality, is nothing short of amazing and, win or lose, has already made a huge difference.

He's already amazing!

[Helen Borg]

77. He and his supporters are amazing!

Oh wait, that means US too

[andrewv1]

63. A General Election with Both Candidates perceived by the Voters with Character Issues?

It's not inconceivable someone would rationalize a vote for Trump even though they believe he is of low morals...
Let's say in this case with Clinton, if they feel there is not much difference.

And it's pretty easy to see who is going to be at an advantage between these two if they are the nominees of their party.

[BeanMusical]

64. Kick and R

[n8dogg83]

69. I really hope that eventually the DNC will take notice of the fact that Bernie outperforms Hillary..

in head-to-head polls against republicans. If Bernie wins the nomination, there will be less "Swing" states that need defending against republicans. Democrats would, for once, be able to play offense during the general election and be able to spend more time in purple and red states trying to turn them blue. This could be a great opportunity to revitalize the Democratic party and make them relevant again across the country. That is, if the DNC weren't so in-the-bag for a certain candidate.

[raindaddy]

71. I can't find one reason to vote for a candiate that the majority of Americans don't trust....

along with their political baggage waiting to be exploited by Trump or whoever the Republicans nominate..

Especially in the times we're living in..

[Iwillnevergiveup]

72. So far

Bernie has enjoyed a wonderful winter. Long may it continue!

[Rider3]

79. Damn Right!