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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!

Thu May 9, 2019, 02:44 PM

 

I vow not to say anything critical about any candidate running in the Dem primary

I also vow not to say anything critical or negative about any candidate's supporters or members of the candidate's campaign staff. I further vow that if I have an issue with where a candidate stands on any particular issue, I will only talk about the issue itself and not mention the candidate.
26 votes, 2 passes | Time left: Unlimited
I make that vow
2 (8%)
I will not make that vow
24 (92%)
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Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

43 replies, 2992 views

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Reply I vow not to say anything critical about any candidate running in the Dem primary (Original post)
Kaleva May 2019 OP
MineralMan May 2019 #1
Indygram May 2019 #2
get the red out May 2019 #4
Kaleva May 2019 #6
Kaleva May 2019 #3
MineralMan May 2019 #7
Kaleva May 2019 #9
corbettkroehler May 2019 #5
ehrnst May 2019 #33
corbettkroehler May 2019 #36
customerserviceguy May 2019 #16
Honeycombe8 May 2019 #28
doompatrol39 May 2019 #8
Kaleva May 2019 #11
doompatrol39 May 2019 #21
Kaleva May 2019 #22
brooklynite May 2019 #10
Kaleva May 2019 #12
Kaleva May 2019 #13
brooklynite May 2019 #14
Kaleva May 2019 #17
brooklynite May 2019 #18
Kaleva May 2019 #20
Bradshaw3 May 2019 #15
Kaleva May 2019 #19
Bradshaw3 May 2019 #23
Kaleva May 2019 #24
Bradshaw3 May 2019 #25
Kaleva May 2019 #27
Kurt V. May 2019 #26
LAS14 May 2019 #29
Kaleva May 2019 #30
LAS14 May 2019 #31
Kaleva May 2019 #32
LAS14 May 2019 #34
Skya Rhen May 2019 #35
SKKY May 2019 #37
Kaleva May 2019 #38
Kaleva Jun 2019 #39
ecstatic Jun 2019 #40
Kaleva Jun 2019 #41
Kaleva Jul 2019 #42
Raine Jul 2019 #43

Response to Kaleva (Original post)

Thu May 9, 2019, 02:47 PM

1. Can't vote. There's nothing wrong with criticizing a candidate.

 

Criticism is different from attacking a candidate. I can't vow not to criticize a candidate's position. That's why there is a campaign. I can, however, vow not to attack a candidate.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #1)

Thu May 9, 2019, 02:52 PM

2. I was just going to post something similar.

 

It's OK to make a fair criticism of a candidate if they do or say something you really don't like and believe is wrong. It's OK to criticize a policy or position. And if a candidate's supporters are behaving badly then it's OK to criticize them as well.

Justified criticism is not bashing or attacking.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Indygram (Reply #2)

Thu May 9, 2019, 02:59 PM

4. I agree

 

If I disagree with a candidate, well that's politics, it's why we have primary races. I have no desire to go past policy in that, but we have to be able to discuss issues.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Indygram (Reply #2)

Thu May 9, 2019, 03:04 PM

6. One person's attack is another person's constructive criticism.

 

A person whose preferred candidate or fellow supporters is the object of constructive criticism may take that is an attack. So, I'm not going to engage in that. I'm just going to concentrate on promoting my preferred candidate.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #1)

Thu May 9, 2019, 02:55 PM

3. As I support all of the candidates, I see nothing to gain by being critical of any

 

My preference is for Kamala Harris and I do think she's the best candidate for the job of POTUS but if she drops out for some reason, I'll pick another and I will support the nominee no matter who it is.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #3)

Thu May 9, 2019, 03:06 PM

7. As you can see by the polling, most people feel that criticism

 

of primary candidates is OK. Otherwise we have no good way to select candidates to support. There are many criteria to consider for each candidate. I might well disagree with a candidate's position on something, or think a candidate cannot generate enough support to win the general election. Those are points that can be discussed here.

Criticism is not necessarily an attack or bashing. While it might seem to be a fine line, saying, for example, that I think a particular candidate is too conservative is very different than calling that candidate a DINO. The first is a criticism, while the second is an attack.

We will never get away from posting criticisms here, but we could avoid attacking or bashing a candidate we don't thing is a good choice.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #7)

Thu May 9, 2019, 03:29 PM

9. The problem is that criticism easily devolves into vicious attacks.

 

We can recall by reading the old threads where Hillary was savaged here during the 2008 primary and how bad the fighting was in the 2016 primary. I predict the same will happen this primary.

It's human nature. The higher the stakes, the lower the standards become.

So I'll concentrate on promoting my candidate of choice.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #1)

Thu May 9, 2019, 03:02 PM

5. Drawing Contrasts

 

I'm with you. I prefer "drawing contrasts" but concur with your point.

I also voted no in the poll because some DUers overreact and attack their fellow DUers when they draw contrasts rather than offering a thoughtful response to a reasoned objection.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to corbettkroehler (Reply #5)

Fri May 10, 2019, 09:14 AM

33. Do you see a pattern in those DUers who "overreact" and "attack their fellow DUers?" (nt)

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #33)

Fri May 10, 2019, 02:17 PM

36. I Tried To Assign It To Support For A Particular Candiate But Failed (n/t)

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #1)

Thu May 9, 2019, 04:05 PM

16. And the campaign staff

 

is not immune to criticism if that is warranted. Every manager makes what turns out to be a mistake in hiring, some turn out to be really egregious.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #1)

Thu May 9, 2019, 05:50 PM

28. Ditto. nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Kaleva (Original post)

Thu May 9, 2019, 03:13 PM

8. If we can't do that then what is the point of a primary?

 

This idea that if we don't point these things out that somehow they will remain a secret and Republicans won't think about those things as tools to attack our candidate is ridiculous naive and deluded.

If a candidate takes a position or has taken a position on something it's perfectly valid to point that out.

If it's all just one big love fest then how the hell are people supposed to decide.

I just find it fascinating (especially as someone who has no preference at this point) that the line between "attacking/smearing " and "meaningfully criticizing a candidates positions or voting record pretty much seems to boil down to whether it's being done to their preferred candidate or someone else.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to doompatrol39 (Reply #8)

Thu May 9, 2019, 03:35 PM

11. Where did I say such a thing

 

Your comment:

"This idea that if we don't point these things out that somehow they will remain a secret and Republicans won't think about those things as tools to attack our candidate is ridiculous naive and deluded. "

Search if you'd like but you won't find a single post of mine in the past 11 years where I've ever said such a thing. So it must be an attack as it can't be a criticism of anything I've actually said.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #11)

Thu May 9, 2019, 04:55 PM

21. Not you, but I read that a lot on here as the reason...

 

...again that mostly seems to be people who don't want their preferred candidate to be criticized but it is a reason I've been given on here and in the real world as to why candidates or their surrogates should refrain from attacking each other (I heard it a lot during and after the 2016 primary).
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to doompatrol39 (Reply #21)

Thu May 9, 2019, 05:05 PM

22. I'm not asking you or others to not be ctitical of any of the candidates

 

It's up to you and others to decide on your own. The poll gives a choice.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Kaleva (Original post)

Thu May 9, 2019, 03:34 PM

10. There's a nice safe bubble for you in the "Democrats 2020" section...

 

In the meantime, feel free to post anything you find that's critical of my chosen candidate. I won't mind.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #10)

Thu May 9, 2019, 03:42 PM

12. I don't need a safe bubble.

 

I'm going to spend my efforts on promoting my preferred candidate.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #10)

Thu May 9, 2019, 03:47 PM

13. I'm not going to post anything critical about your prefered candidate.

 

If he wins the nomination, I'll support him with all the resources I have available and vote for him. Just as I would if Kamala wins the nomination. No more or no less.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #13)

Thu May 9, 2019, 03:59 PM

14. If there's an issue with my candidate's policies or background, I'd like to know it now.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #14)

Thu May 9, 2019, 04:40 PM

17. I suspect you spent many hours researching your preferred candidate...

 

and you used many sources to do so. It's thus extremely unlikely that something will pop up here in Democratic Primaries forum, and only here, that will cause you to drop him.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #17)

Thu May 9, 2019, 04:48 PM

18. Do you remember Eric Massa?

 

He was a Vet who was elected to the House from Upstate NY in 2008. In the lead-up to the election and in the year following, he would call me to chat about politics and policy issues every 3-4 months and we would spend 20 minutes on the phone each time. You would think I had a good handle on him. The last campaign fundraiser I attended for him had an endorsement by Bill Clinton.

Then the sexual harassment accusation hit (a Senior staffer), his reputation collapsed, and he abruptly resigned.

I will NEVER assume I know everything about a politician, and if someone else finds something I missed, I'd like to know.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #18)

Thu May 9, 2019, 04:55 PM

20. Was it DU where you found out about Eric Masa?

 

Would he not have resigned had we just said positive things about him?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Kaleva (Original post)

Thu May 9, 2019, 04:02 PM

15. Now if we can only get the reubs to agree to this for our nominee

 

Then he/she will have a safe space in the general - which they'll need after primaries in which they never have to answer any criticism.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Bradshaw3 (Reply #15)

Thu May 9, 2019, 04:49 PM

19. Go for it.

 

If that's what you think is best.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #19)

Thu May 9, 2019, 05:07 PM

23. I don't think it's a good idea at all

 

Was being facetious, which I thought was obvious. No, "protecting" ourselves or our candidates from criticism doesn't do anything but make it more likely the Democratic nominee will lose in 2020.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Bradshaw3 (Reply #23)

Thu May 9, 2019, 05:11 PM

24. What takes place on DU has very little impact on how elections go.

 

It's probably not even measurable.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #24)

Thu May 9, 2019, 05:13 PM

25. Then why did you make this thread?

 

And want DUers input?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Bradshaw3 (Reply #25)

Thu May 9, 2019, 05:47 PM

27. There have been a few threads complaining about the attacks on candidates.

 

Some may consider those attacks to be constructive criticisms. It's in the eye of the beholder.

I have nothing to gain by being critical of any of the candidates running for the nomination and I'll support the nominee whoever it is. I've stated that in other posts here. And I would like to hear other DUers opinions on this.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Kaleva (Original post)

Thu May 9, 2019, 05:22 PM

26. we may well be in one of the defining moments that this country faces every few generations.

 

the eventual nominee is going to get some bumps and bruises before the general and thats healthy.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Kaleva (Original post)

Thu May 9, 2019, 05:52 PM

29. Doesn't the word "forum" imply "discussion?" How can you "discuss" if you vow not to criticize??? nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to LAS14 (Reply #29)

Thu May 9, 2019, 05:56 PM

30. I'm free to discuss all I want about how Sen. Harris ought to be our nominee

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #30)

Thu May 9, 2019, 07:06 PM

31. But people who disagree with you must keep mum???? nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to LAS14 (Reply #31)

Thu May 9, 2019, 10:26 PM

32. You can discuss all you want the reasons you think Mayor Pete is the best person for the job

 

If I make an OP talking about an issue Senator Harris has recently talked about and on which I agree with her, you can counter with Mayor Pete's stated position and/or record on that issue and why you agree with it.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #32)

Fri May 10, 2019, 12:21 PM

34. I'm not a Democrat so I can have a society without free speech.... or even a DU without ....

 

...free Democratic speech.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Kaleva (Original post)

Fri May 10, 2019, 02:17 PM

35. I Can't Go For That (No Can Do) by Hall and Oates *** Music Video ***

 

[link:|
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Kaleva (Original post)

Fri May 10, 2019, 02:28 PM

37. The only vow I will make, and the only vow that really matters...

 

...is that I will support the Democratic candidate with both money and my vote. Regardless of who that is.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Kaleva (Original post)

Tue May 14, 2019, 11:24 PM

38. About the tightest poll I've seen in awhile.

 

it's neck and neck between those who made the 1st choice and those who declined to vote.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Kaleva (Original post)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 05:26 PM

39. kick

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Kaleva (Original post)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 05:28 PM

40. What if s/he is not a democrat and has zero chance of becoming the nominee? nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to ecstatic (Reply #40)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 05:30 PM

41. If they are running to be our nominee, I won't say anything critical.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Kaleva (Original post)

Sat Jul 6, 2019, 08:29 PM

42. Kick

 

Been trying very hard to live up to the vow and so far, I think I've been doing pretty good.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Kaleva (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 03:28 AM

43. No way, no how

 

that would be a vow I can't/won't make.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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