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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
 

Kaleva

(36,948 posts)
Thu May 9, 2019, 02:44 PM May 2019

I vow not to say anything critical about any candidate running in the Dem primary

I also vow not to say anything critical or negative about any candidate's supporters or members of the candidate's campaign staff. I further vow that if I have an issue with where a candidate stands on any particular issue, I will only talk about the issue itself and not mention the candidate.


24 votes, 2 passes | Time left: Unlimited
I make that vow
2 (8%)
I will not make that vow
22 (92%)
Show usernames
Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
43 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
I vow not to say anything critical about any candidate running in the Dem primary (Original Post) Kaleva May 2019 OP
Can't vote. There's nothing wrong with criticizing a candidate. MineralMan May 2019 #1
I was just going to post something similar. Indygram May 2019 #2
I agree get the red out May 2019 #4
One person's attack is another person's constructive criticism. Kaleva May 2019 #6
As I support all of the candidates, I see nothing to gain by being critical of any Kaleva May 2019 #3
As you can see by the polling, most people feel that criticism MineralMan May 2019 #7
The problem is that criticism easily devolves into vicious attacks. Kaleva May 2019 #9
Drawing Contrasts corbettkroehler May 2019 #5
Do you see a pattern in those DUers who "overreact" and "attack their fellow DUers?" (nt) ehrnst May 2019 #33
I Tried To Assign It To Support For A Particular Candiate But Failed (n/t) corbettkroehler May 2019 #36
And the campaign staff customerserviceguy May 2019 #16
Ditto. nt Honeycombe8 May 2019 #28
If we can't do that then what is the point of a primary? doompatrol39 May 2019 #8
Where did I say such a thing Kaleva May 2019 #11
Not you, but I read that a lot on here as the reason... doompatrol39 May 2019 #21
I'm not asking you or others to not be ctitical of any of the candidates Kaleva May 2019 #22
There's a nice safe bubble for you in the "Democrats 2020" section... brooklynite May 2019 #10
I don't need a safe bubble. Kaleva May 2019 #12
I'm not going to post anything critical about your prefered candidate. Kaleva May 2019 #13
If there's an issue with my candidate's policies or background, I'd like to know it now. brooklynite May 2019 #14
I suspect you spent many hours researching your preferred candidate... Kaleva May 2019 #17
Do you remember Eric Massa? brooklynite May 2019 #18
Was it DU where you found out about Eric Masa? Kaleva May 2019 #20
Now if we can only get the reubs to agree to this for our nominee Bradshaw3 May 2019 #15
Go for it. Kaleva May 2019 #19
I don't think it's a good idea at all Bradshaw3 May 2019 #23
What takes place on DU has very little impact on how elections go. Kaleva May 2019 #24
Then why did you make this thread? Bradshaw3 May 2019 #25
There have been a few threads complaining about the attacks on candidates. Kaleva May 2019 #27
we may well be in one of the defining moments that this country faces every few generations. Kurt V. May 2019 #26
Doesn't the word "forum" imply "discussion?" How can you "discuss" if you vow not to criticize??? nt LAS14 May 2019 #29
I'm free to discuss all I want about how Sen. Harris ought to be our nominee Kaleva May 2019 #30
But people who disagree with you must keep mum???? nt LAS14 May 2019 #31
You can discuss all you want the reasons you think Mayor Pete is the best person for the job Kaleva May 2019 #32
I'm not a Democrat so I can have a society without free speech.... or even a DU without .... LAS14 May 2019 #34
I Can't Go For That (No Can Do) by Hall and Oates *** Music Video *** Skya Rhen May 2019 #35
The only vow I will make, and the only vow that really matters... SKKY May 2019 #37
About the tightest poll I've seen in awhile. Kaleva May 2019 #38
kick Kaleva Jun 2019 #39
What if s/he is not a democrat and has zero chance of becoming the nominee? nt ecstatic Jun 2019 #40
If they are running to be our nominee, I won't say anything critical. Kaleva Jun 2019 #41
Kick Kaleva Jul 2019 #42
No way, no how Raine Jul 2019 #43
 

MineralMan

(146,572 posts)
1. Can't vote. There's nothing wrong with criticizing a candidate.
Thu May 9, 2019, 02:47 PM
May 2019

Criticism is different from attacking a candidate. I can't vow not to criticize a candidate's position. That's why there is a campaign. I can, however, vow not to attack a candidate.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Indygram

(2,113 posts)
2. I was just going to post something similar.
Thu May 9, 2019, 02:52 PM
May 2019

It's OK to make a fair criticism of a candidate if they do or say something you really don't like and believe is wrong. It's OK to criticize a policy or position. And if a candidate's supporters are behaving badly then it's OK to criticize them as well.

Justified criticism is not bashing or attacking.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

get the red out

(13,472 posts)
4. I agree
Thu May 9, 2019, 02:59 PM
May 2019

If I disagree with a candidate, well that's politics, it's why we have primary races. I have no desire to go past policy in that, but we have to be able to discuss issues.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Kaleva

(36,948 posts)
6. One person's attack is another person's constructive criticism.
Thu May 9, 2019, 03:04 PM
May 2019

A person whose preferred candidate or fellow supporters is the object of constructive criticism may take that is an attack. So, I'm not going to engage in that. I'm just going to concentrate on promoting my preferred candidate.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Kaleva

(36,948 posts)
3. As I support all of the candidates, I see nothing to gain by being critical of any
Thu May 9, 2019, 02:55 PM
May 2019

My preference is for Kamala Harris and I do think she's the best candidate for the job of POTUS but if she drops out for some reason, I'll pick another and I will support the nominee no matter who it is.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

MineralMan

(146,572 posts)
7. As you can see by the polling, most people feel that criticism
Thu May 9, 2019, 03:06 PM
May 2019

of primary candidates is OK. Otherwise we have no good way to select candidates to support. There are many criteria to consider for each candidate. I might well disagree with a candidate's position on something, or think a candidate cannot generate enough support to win the general election. Those are points that can be discussed here.

Criticism is not necessarily an attack or bashing. While it might seem to be a fine line, saying, for example, that I think a particular candidate is too conservative is very different than calling that candidate a DINO. The first is a criticism, while the second is an attack.

We will never get away from posting criticisms here, but we could avoid attacking or bashing a candidate we don't thing is a good choice.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Kaleva

(36,948 posts)
9. The problem is that criticism easily devolves into vicious attacks.
Thu May 9, 2019, 03:29 PM
May 2019

We can recall by reading the old threads where Hillary was savaged here during the 2008 primary and how bad the fighting was in the 2016 primary. I predict the same will happen this primary.

It's human nature. The higher the stakes, the lower the standards become.

So I'll concentrate on promoting my candidate of choice.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

corbettkroehler

(1,898 posts)
5. Drawing Contrasts
Thu May 9, 2019, 03:02 PM
May 2019

I'm with you. I prefer "drawing contrasts" but concur with your point.

I also voted no in the poll because some DUers overreact and attack their fellow DUers when they draw contrasts rather than offering a thoughtful response to a reasoned objection.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
33. Do you see a pattern in those DUers who "overreact" and "attack their fellow DUers?" (nt)
Fri May 10, 2019, 09:14 AM
May 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

corbettkroehler

(1,898 posts)
36. I Tried To Assign It To Support For A Particular Candiate But Failed (n/t)
Fri May 10, 2019, 02:17 PM
May 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

customerserviceguy

(25,183 posts)
16. And the campaign staff
Thu May 9, 2019, 04:05 PM
May 2019

is not immune to criticism if that is warranted. Every manager makes what turns out to be a mistake in hiring, some turn out to be really egregious.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

doompatrol39

(428 posts)
8. If we can't do that then what is the point of a primary?
Thu May 9, 2019, 03:13 PM
May 2019

This idea that if we don't point these things out that somehow they will remain a secret and Republicans won't think about those things as tools to attack our candidate is ridiculous naive and deluded.

If a candidate takes a position or has taken a position on something it's perfectly valid to point that out.

If it's all just one big love fest then how the hell are people supposed to decide.

I just find it fascinating (especially as someone who has no preference at this point) that the line between "attacking/smearing " and "meaningfully criticizing a candidates positions or voting record pretty much seems to boil down to whether it's being done to their preferred candidate or someone else.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Kaleva

(36,948 posts)
11. Where did I say such a thing
Thu May 9, 2019, 03:35 PM
May 2019

Your comment:

"This idea that if we don't point these things out that somehow they will remain a secret and Republicans won't think about those things as tools to attack our candidate is ridiculous naive and deluded. "

Search if you'd like but you won't find a single post of mine in the past 11 years where I've ever said such a thing. So it must be an attack as it can't be a criticism of anything I've actually said.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

doompatrol39

(428 posts)
21. Not you, but I read that a lot on here as the reason...
Thu May 9, 2019, 04:55 PM
May 2019

...again that mostly seems to be people who don't want their preferred candidate to be criticized but it is a reason I've been given on here and in the real world as to why candidates or their surrogates should refrain from attacking each other (I heard it a lot during and after the 2016 primary).

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Kaleva

(36,948 posts)
22. I'm not asking you or others to not be ctitical of any of the candidates
Thu May 9, 2019, 05:05 PM
May 2019

It's up to you and others to decide on your own. The poll gives a choice.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

brooklynite

(96,641 posts)
10. There's a nice safe bubble for you in the "Democrats 2020" section...
Thu May 9, 2019, 03:34 PM
May 2019

In the meantime, feel free to post anything you find that's critical of my chosen candidate. I won't mind.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Kaleva

(36,948 posts)
12. I don't need a safe bubble.
Thu May 9, 2019, 03:42 PM
May 2019

I'm going to spend my efforts on promoting my preferred candidate.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Kaleva

(36,948 posts)
13. I'm not going to post anything critical about your prefered candidate.
Thu May 9, 2019, 03:47 PM
May 2019

If he wins the nomination, I'll support him with all the resources I have available and vote for him. Just as I would if Kamala wins the nomination. No more or no less.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

brooklynite

(96,641 posts)
14. If there's an issue with my candidate's policies or background, I'd like to know it now.
Thu May 9, 2019, 03:59 PM
May 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Kaleva

(36,948 posts)
17. I suspect you spent many hours researching your preferred candidate...
Thu May 9, 2019, 04:40 PM
May 2019

and you used many sources to do so. It's thus extremely unlikely that something will pop up here in Democratic Primaries forum, and only here, that will cause you to drop him.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

brooklynite

(96,641 posts)
18. Do you remember Eric Massa?
Thu May 9, 2019, 04:48 PM
May 2019

He was a Vet who was elected to the House from Upstate NY in 2008. In the lead-up to the election and in the year following, he would call me to chat about politics and policy issues every 3-4 months and we would spend 20 minutes on the phone each time. You would think I had a good handle on him. The last campaign fundraiser I attended for him had an endorsement by Bill Clinton.

Then the sexual harassment accusation hit (a Senior staffer), his reputation collapsed, and he abruptly resigned.

I will NEVER assume I know everything about a politician, and if someone else finds something I missed, I'd like to know.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Kaleva

(36,948 posts)
20. Was it DU where you found out about Eric Masa?
Thu May 9, 2019, 04:55 PM
May 2019

Would he not have resigned had we just said positive things about him?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Bradshaw3

(7,702 posts)
15. Now if we can only get the reubs to agree to this for our nominee
Thu May 9, 2019, 04:02 PM
May 2019

Then he/she will have a safe space in the general - which they'll need after primaries in which they never have to answer any criticism.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Kaleva

(36,948 posts)
19. Go for it.
Thu May 9, 2019, 04:49 PM
May 2019

If that's what you think is best.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Bradshaw3

(7,702 posts)
23. I don't think it's a good idea at all
Thu May 9, 2019, 05:07 PM
May 2019

Was being facetious, which I thought was obvious. No, "protecting" ourselves or our candidates from criticism doesn't do anything but make it more likely the Democratic nominee will lose in 2020.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Kaleva

(36,948 posts)
24. What takes place on DU has very little impact on how elections go.
Thu May 9, 2019, 05:11 PM
May 2019

It's probably not even measurable.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Bradshaw3

(7,702 posts)
25. Then why did you make this thread?
Thu May 9, 2019, 05:13 PM
May 2019

And want DUers input?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Kaleva

(36,948 posts)
27. There have been a few threads complaining about the attacks on candidates.
Thu May 9, 2019, 05:47 PM
May 2019

Some may consider those attacks to be constructive criticisms. It's in the eye of the beholder.

I have nothing to gain by being critical of any of the candidates running for the nomination and I'll support the nominee whoever it is. I've stated that in other posts here. And I would like to hear other DUers opinions on this.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Kurt V.

(5,624 posts)
26. we may well be in one of the defining moments that this country faces every few generations.
Thu May 9, 2019, 05:22 PM
May 2019

the eventual nominee is going to get some bumps and bruises before the general and thats healthy.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

LAS14

(13,922 posts)
29. Doesn't the word "forum" imply "discussion?" How can you "discuss" if you vow not to criticize??? nt
Thu May 9, 2019, 05:52 PM
May 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Kaleva

(36,948 posts)
30. I'm free to discuss all I want about how Sen. Harris ought to be our nominee
Thu May 9, 2019, 05:56 PM
May 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LAS14

(13,922 posts)
31. But people who disagree with you must keep mum???? nt
Thu May 9, 2019, 07:06 PM
May 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Kaleva

(36,948 posts)
32. You can discuss all you want the reasons you think Mayor Pete is the best person for the job
Thu May 9, 2019, 10:26 PM
May 2019

If I make an OP talking about an issue Senator Harris has recently talked about and on which I agree with her, you can counter with Mayor Pete's stated position and/or record on that issue and why you agree with it.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LAS14

(13,922 posts)
34. I'm not a Democrat so I can have a society without free speech.... or even a DU without ....
Fri May 10, 2019, 12:21 PM
May 2019

...free Democratic speech.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Skya Rhen

(2,706 posts)
35. I Can't Go For That (No Can Do) by Hall and Oates *** Music Video ***
Fri May 10, 2019, 02:17 PM
May 2019

[link:

|
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

SKKY

(11,976 posts)
37. The only vow I will make, and the only vow that really matters...
Fri May 10, 2019, 02:28 PM
May 2019

...is that I will support the Democratic candidate with both money and my vote. Regardless of who that is.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Kaleva

(36,948 posts)
38. About the tightest poll I've seen in awhile.
Tue May 14, 2019, 11:24 PM
May 2019

it's neck and neck between those who made the 1st choice and those who declined to vote.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ecstatic

(33,251 posts)
40. What if s/he is not a democrat and has zero chance of becoming the nominee? nt
Thu Jun 20, 2019, 05:28 PM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Kaleva

(36,948 posts)
41. If they are running to be our nominee, I won't say anything critical.
Thu Jun 20, 2019, 05:30 PM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Kaleva

(36,948 posts)
42. Kick
Sat Jul 6, 2019, 08:29 PM
Jul 2019

Been trying very hard to live up to the vow and so far, I think I've been doing pretty good.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Raine

(30,565 posts)
43. No way, no how
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 03:28 AM
Jul 2019

that would be a vow I can't/won't make.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
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