Buttigieg, Gillibrand and Franken?

[question everything]

Came at the end of the Nicole Wallace round table and apparently Matthews asked Buttigieg about Franken and apparently he mentioned Gillibrand and she responded.

Anyone knows anything? Or care?

[hlthe2b]

1. There have been threads on it. try a site search for today's or yesterday's date.

On an iphone so can't search, sorry

[question everything]

2. Thanks, I will

Threads come quickly and then disappear..

[applegrove]

3. Buttigeig said he would have waited for a congressional investigation before

pulling the plug on Franken.

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/06/buttigieg-i-would-not-have-pressured-al-franken-to-resign.html

[Celerity]

4. Gillibrand defends calling for Franken to resign after Buttigieg comments

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/446777-gillibrand-defends-calling-for-franken-to-resign-after-buttigieg-raises

Democratic presidential candidate Kirsten Gillibrand on Monday defended her call for former Sen. Al Franken (D-Minn.) to resign, saying that credible allegations of sexual misconduct are "not too high a standard."

The statement from the New York senator came shortly after South Bend, Ind., Mayor Pete Buttigieg (D), who is also running for president, voiced concerns about the pressure Franken faced to resign before Congress learned more about the accusations against him.

.@SenGillibrand’s statement on Sen. Franken’s resignation as it’s come up in the 2020 campaign: pic.twitter.com/9OSTtpN1DL

— Meredith Kelly (@meredithk27) June 4, 2019
"Eight credible allegations of sexual harassment, two since he was elected senator, and one from a congressional staffer," Gillibrand said in a statement shared on Twitter. "That is not too high a standard, regardless of how the Republican Party handles this behavior, and worse. Yes, it was Senator Franken’s decision alone to leave the Senate — a path he ultimately chose — but for many senators, including myself and others in this primary field, that was not too high a of a bar to raise our voices and make clear we value women."

Link to tweet

Franken resigned in January 2018 after multiple women came forward to accuse him of inappropriate conduct, including kissing without consent. His resignation came as he faced pressure from multiple Democratic lawmakers, including Gillibrand, to step down.

Buttigieg said in a MSNBC town hall on Monday night that he wouldn't have pressured Franken to resign until the public knew more.

"I would not have applied that pressure at that time before we knew more," he said when pressed by MSNBC's Chris Matthews.

SNIP

[question everything]

5. Thanks. That she continues to insist on "eight credible allegations"

is absurd.

[madville]

7. Harris also said the allegations had weight.

Like many others, Sen. Kamala Harris of California described it as a "difficult decision" but said "frankly the numerosity of the complaints I found to have weight."

[question everything]

16. And this is why she will not be my choice unless she is the nominee

Same for Warren and Booker

[LakeArenal]

53. AndBernie!!!

[Trumpocalypse]

10. Other than Tweeden

is the any credible evidence that any of the other 7 women were lying?

[tonedevil]

12. The words...

It’s my right as an entertainer were never uttered by Al Franken. Any possible credibility that anonymous accuser may have had evaporated with that preposterous claim.

[Trumpocalypse]

19. Were you there?

If not, you don't know that for sure.

[tonedevil]

21. I don't know for sure...

but it is an extraordinary claim that came from an anonymous source with no further evidence. As there has been no evidence, extraordinary or otherwise, in support of the claim it is quite credible that Ms. Anonymous is/was lying.

[Trumpocalypse]

23. True

But the same is true of accusations against others.

There was evidence to support Christine Blasey Ford's accusations either.

Just so I'm clear on the rules, we only believe women who accuse republicans but women who accuse Democrats we smear as liars.

[tonedevil]

34. What possible difference is there between...

Christine Blasey Ford and Ms. Anonymous? A rule you seem to be unclear on is that an accusation made anonymously is less credible than one made using one's true name. There are certainly times where it is important to protect one's identity, but in the case where neither has evidence the person who puts themselves on the line has more credibility. As far as the Democrats vs. Republicans and who gets believed perhaps you could have a chat with Rep. John Conyers Jr.

[Trumpocalypse]

38. Only a few were anonymous

Some like Tina Duplay weren't. And after seeing the smearing of Ms. Duplay and the others who gave their name, I can't blame the women who stayed anonymous.

[tonedevil]

45. The anonymous entity...

that accused Senator Franken of saying she had to give him a kiss it was his right as an entertainer not only made an preposterous claim she did so anonymously. Your post tried to say she was equally as credible as Christine Balsey Ford and that somehow proved that we, whoever we is, regard all accusations from Democrats against Republicans as true and accusation from Republicans against Democrats are considered lies. Just to set the record straight the it is my right as an entertainer accusation came before Tina Dupuy spoke up.

[question everything]

17. I think that two women came forward that they posed for a picture

and claimed that his hand moved downward, or something.

The rest were anonymous.

Still, he wanted the ethics committee to look into it and they - Gillibrand, Harris, Warren, Booker, already thinking of their presidential campaigns - stole it from him.

[Trumpocalypse]

24. No

Stephanie Kemplin, an Army veteran, and Tina Dupuy, a former Democratic staffer, weren't anonymous.

[tonedevil]

36. I completely believe Tina Dupuy...

she accused Senator Franken of posing for a picture with her and putting his arm around her on her waist. By her description Franken acted well within the boundaries of normal behavior. His actions as she describes them don't even rise to an accusation of sexual mischief.
I'm someone who does not like to be touched or hugged especially by anyone who I don't have an already established intimacy with. I don't expect everyone I come in contact with to know or understand this depending on the situation I either make my objections known or I grin and bear it. If Ms. Dupuy is so sensitive that what sounds like normal behavior in the course of taking a picture with someone is that horrifying to her she needs to make that sensitivity known before hand.

[wellst0nev0ter]

51. And THIS is the accusation that triggered the calls

for Franken's resignation. I wish I was kidding.

[question everything]

47. OK, three. But Gillibrand is talking about "eight allegations."

[USALiberal]

56. LOL, here we go again. nt

[SouthernProgressive]

13. Klobuchar

Today Senator Franken acknowledged that he could no longer serve in the Senate and resigned. As he and I discussed yesterday, this is the right decision. Senator Franken has worked for years on behalf of the people of Minnesota and he has been a leader on issues that are fundamental to Americans’ lives, including education, privacy, healthcare and mental health. He has been a friend to me and to many in our state.

As the women who have come forward to tell their stories across America have made clear, sexual harassment is never acceptable. In every workplace in America, including the U.S. Senate, we must confront the challenges of harassment and misconduct. Nothing is easy or pleasant about this, but we all must recognize that our workplace cultures—and the way we treat each other as human beings—must change.

For Franni, the Franken family, Senator Franken’s friends and supporters in our state, it’s a very tough day. I want you to know I remain as committed as ever to working together and standing up for people, for common decency, and for our democracy during an incredibly difficult and divisive time in our country. And as we go forward together, we must never forget the words of Senator Paul Wellstone, whom Senator Franken quoted in part today, ‘Politics is not about power. Politics is not about money. Politics is not about winning for the sake of winning. Politics is about the improvement of people’s lives.’

Amy Klobuchar

[question everything]

18. This is true. Once these anonymous allegations (from Roger Stone?) kept coming, forcing him

to respond to each one, he could no longer be an effective senator. And, this, really was the purpose. Remember, it was because of him that Sessions recused himself about Russia interference.

[Butterflylady]

46. Thank you, thank you, and thank you

Definitely a Roger Stone hit job. Once he resigned, miraculously the anonymous (cough, cough) complaints stopped. If Gillibrand or whoever doesn't know a hit job when she sees it, I'd say her judgement to me would come into question.

[StevieM]

6. "Yes, it was Senator Franken's decision alone to leave the Senate -- a path he ultimately chose"

That is a blatant falsehood.

Gillibrand led the effort to drive him out by making it clear that he would not be allowed to effectively serve his constituents. The Democrats made it clear that they would no longer work with him.

Franken requested an ethics investigation. He wanted that to be the method by which he was judged. He didn't look at the facts and conclude her couldn't survive it. Gillibrand short-circuited the process.

[Trumpocalypse]

9. Gillibrand and over 30 other Senators

including Harris, Booker, Warren and Sanders.

Plus an ethics committee investigation is not a trial that determines guilt or innocence. It is a hearing that only determines if congressional ethics rules had been violated. And do you really believe the republicans on the ethics committee would have given Franken a fair hearing?

[StevieM]

11. The Senate Ethics Committee would have evaluated the facts and made a recommendation

to the full Senate.

My guess is that he would have gotten a rebuke of some sorts. He certainly wasn't looking at expulsion, like Bob Packwood was.

[wellst0nev0ter]

14. You think a forced resignation

Is better than a republican-led hearing?

[Trumpocalypse]

22. What I think is irrelevant

But Franken must have.

[wellst0nev0ter]

32. So why did he call for a hearing in the first place?

Your arguments ceased making sense a long time ago.

[Trumpocalypse]

37. Yes he did

And he could have stayed and gotten his hearing, but he chose to resign.

[vlyons]

27. my impression of Gillibrand

is that she thought the Franken hoo-haa was an expedient and convenient way to vault herself to the apex of the me-too movement that was just picking up steam around the nation. A convenient way to pose as the most pro-woman me-too politician, and get name recognition for a POTUS run. Definitely not my preferred candidate.

[radical noodle]

8. Buttigieg didn't mention Gillibrand by name

He only said he wouldn't have put the pressure on him to resign at that time. The assumption was that he meant there should have been an investigation before any push to get Franken to resign.

Believing women means (to me) that when women say something happened, they shouldn't be written off. I don't think it means the man should be condemned without more information.

[True Dough]

26. Sounds well reasoned to me, radical noodle

I concur.

[The Mouth]

33. Said perfectly

"Believing women means (to me) that when women say something happened, they shouldn't be written off. I don't think it means the man should be condemned without more information."

Bingo

[wellst0nev0ter]

15. Reminder

Tweeden is a documented liar who is a trump birther and lied about Shirley Sherrod.

Lindsay Menz and Stephanie Kemplin say they were inappropriately touched during crowded events, yet there were no other witnesses to the alleged assaults. Both are filthy trumpanzee voters who can't explain to any jury why Franken needs to be punished, but a pussygrabber should have the most important job in the world.

Tina Dupuy gave a dramatic account of how Franken held her at the waist This is despite the fact that she made social media posts immediately after the alleged incident praising the Senator. This is one of them:

Link to tweet

All the other accusations are anonymous and cannot be proven either way, so they're garbage unless the women step forward and testify.

[question everything]

20. Thank you for the detailed report

It was clear that Roger Stone and others thought that Franken was the most threatening member on the Judiciary committee and had to stop him. Any other member of the senate, or the House, being bombarded day in and day out by anonymous allegations would have realized, soon enough that he could no longer be an effective representative. This is why such a smear campaign is always so dangerous.

[wellst0nev0ter]

31. As EricJ said

people focused on the quantity of the garbage allegations instead of the quantity. To think that "he held my waist" was the one that put Gillibrand and the rest of the lynch mob over the edge

[Trumpocalypse]

25. Maybe they stayed anonymous

so they wouldn't be smeared by people like you.

For years I wondered how people like Rush Limbaugh and FAUX news host could be so soulless to just lie and smear people for political purposes. Maybe you can explain it to me since you are so good at it.

[wellst0nev0ter]

30. Or their allegations don't hold up

These claims need to be vetted before anyone makes any conclusions. For now, those anonymous allegations are garbage.

[Trumpocalypse]

35. Any proof?

Please post links to credible sources.

[Hortensis]

39. Comparing a DUer reciting facts to Rush and Fox seems

EXTREMELY inappropriate and uncalled for.

Now, would you like to address the happy tweet about the incident from one of the accusers at least? You are a Democrat after all and presumably oppose RW swiftboating.

[Hortensis]

41. Yet ANOTHER insult to a DUer? That was not my

intention when I asked what you thought of the tweet from the happy victim that completely contradicted her later claim.

[Trumpocalypse]

42. Not an insult

Just telling it like it is. Sorry if that offends you.

And if you are so convinced it was all RW swiftboating, please produce links from credible sources that prove that accusation.

[Hortensis]

43. Well, fyi, this would insult ME if you accused me of this.

And I disagree with your characterization. He used adjectives I wouldn't, but the facts are real. He even left out one I feel is shouldn't: that Tweeden had appeared a number of times on Fox, notably Hannity as a voice for Fox's messaging.

"Except he's not reciting facts. He's smearing people with half truths and innuendo." -- Trumpocalypse

[Trumpocalypse]

44. But that is exactly what he is doing

and has been doing for months. It is a shame that more people here don't object to it.

[wellst0nev0ter]

50. You know

An entire wikipedia page is made in honor of your go-to rhetorical tactic:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning

In other words, it's never incumbent on the accusers to prove their accusations, it's always on the accused to prove a negative.

I've sent you evidence before, you have rejected them without even reading them. This back and forth has become circular.

[wellst0nev0ter]

52. Yeah, I should have said Tweeden was a Fox contributor

But when I said Tweeden is a birther liar, I was talking about her shenanigans on the Trump media arm:

[Hortensis]

54. I'd never seen that. Yuck. How can they stand themselves?

[question everything]

49. The power of the MeToo was that women did not stay anonymous

that they did come forward claiming Me Too.

[rainy]

28. Was it mostly want a be future presidential

candidates. That would explain it. They were scares. Just imaging President Frankin? Oh if only.

[Mike Nelson]

29. I saw the town hall...

… don't recall Buttigieg mentioning any candidate by name. Also, I thought he handled the question well... odd that this is the story from that town hall.. but, with the Hyde story and Crooked Donald commanding the lead, it won't be a setback.

[question everything]

48. I did not watch the town hall - except at the end with Gephardt then and now

but, as I noted in my OP it was mentioned on Nicole Wallace so was curious.

[question everything]

55. I would like to conclude this thread with my closing remarks

As I stated in the OP, I did not watch Buttigieg town hall (except the end) but it was discussed on Nicole Wallace show, as well as Gillibrand's response so I came here to ask.

It is clear to me that Franken was a target of the Republicans - Roger Stone and others - as soon as he caused Sessions to recuse himself. He proved himself a serious, knowledgeable member of the judiciary committee and he had to go. And... with him past as a comedian with often skits of sexual innuendos it was easy to find something.

It started with that famous picture of the USO tour. Yes, she was a liar and appeared in similar "graphic" videos but she was not a U.S. Senator. Then came complaints by women who thought he was too close to them. He tried to react by admitting that he is a tactile guy, (like Biden) and apologized. But this opened the gates to more allegations, this time anonymously.

From there, the battle was lost. He could not spend his time waiting for the next "allegation." And, with the first "real" ones, many would conclude that there was no smoke without fire. Eventually he would conclude that he would have to resign. That fighting all these smear attacks was hurting his effectiveness as a senator.

Gillibarnd and the others did not have to demand that he step down. He would have reached this conclusion by himself. But, this was the MeToo era and Gillibrand, following by Harris and Warrne, Booker and Sanders and others decided that jumping on the wagon would be a good campaign theme. Whether Presidential or simply re-election.

Earlier discussions here brought many who objected to Gillibrand for other reasons, for her past associations (with the NRA)? and not necessarily for Franken.

And I find it interesting that, as posted here, Buttigieg never mentioned Gillibrand and yet she saw a need to respond.

Last, back to my OP, that this was discussed on Nicole Wallace show - someone commented that shortly after Franken resigned the judiciary committee was investigating Kavanaugh. Had Franken still be there it would have been awkward.

We all have our opinions but, as others pointed, time to move to the next hot topic.

Thank you for reading.