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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!

Thu Jun 6, 2019, 07:14 AM

 

Scrapping the Hyde Amendment is a political loser for November 2020

A majority of voters want to keep the Hyde Amendment. It's been the law for over 40 years and was supported by every Democratic President.

Fortunately Mr. Biden isn't as desperate as other candidates that need to pander to every single pressure group.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Reply Scrapping the Hyde Amendment is a political loser for November 2020 (Original post)
Jose Garcia Jun 2019 OP
jberryhill Jun 2019 #1
Sherman A1 Jun 2019 #3
WhiskeyGrinder Jun 2019 #10
treestar Jun 2019 #35
katmondoo Jun 2019 #2
Jose Garcia Jun 2019 #6
katmondoo Jun 2019 #11
Jose Garcia Jun 2019 #18
MrsCoffee Jun 2019 #4
TruckFump Jun 2019 #27
Dennis Donovan Jun 2019 #5
Demit Jun 2019 #7
Jose Garcia Jun 2019 #9
sop Jun 2019 #8
Jose Garcia Jun 2019 #14
sop Jun 2019 #28
WhiskeyGrinder Jun 2019 #12
dalton99a Jun 2019 #16
Kurt V. Jun 2019 #21
bullwinkle428 Jun 2019 #13
Jose Garcia Jun 2019 #15
bullwinkle428 Jun 2019 #19
Jose Garcia Jun 2019 #25
treestar Jun 2019 #36
Cuthbert Allgood Jun 2019 #17
KY_EnviroGuy Jun 2019 #20
LibFarmer Jun 2019 #22
MrsCoffee Jun 2019 #30
treestar Jun 2019 #37
LibFarmer Jun 2019 #38
Skya Rhen Jun 2019 #23
MrsCoffee Jun 2019 #29
WhiskeyGrinder Jun 2019 #32
Honeycombe8 Jun 2019 #24
WhiskeyGrinder Jun 2019 #26
Indygram Jun 2019 #31
Hoyt Jun 2019 #33
Politicub Jun 2019 #34
BannonsLiver Jun 2019 #40
Politicub Jun 2019 #41
BannonsLiver Jun 2019 #43
highplainsdem Jun 2019 #45
BannonsLiver Jun 2019 #39
LongtimeAZDem Jun 2019 #42
Demsrule86 Jun 2019 #44

Response to Jose Garcia (Original post)

Thu Jun 6, 2019, 07:16 AM

1. "pander to every single pressure group"

 

A/K/A poor women.
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Response to jberryhill (Reply #1)

Thu Jun 6, 2019, 07:17 AM

3. Agreed

 

Me thinks that was a very poor choice of words at the very least.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #1)

Thu Jun 6, 2019, 07:33 AM

10. Poor women as a pressure group.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #10)

Thu Jun 6, 2019, 09:42 AM

35. I think the poster meant the political group that made the statement

 

Some poor women are probably anti-choice; that is not a completely congruent group.
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Response to Jose Garcia (Original post)

Thu Jun 6, 2019, 07:16 AM

2. 40 years of supporting how to make life more miserable for women. Thanks Ron Reagan and Hyde

 

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Response to katmondoo (Reply #2)

Thu Jun 6, 2019, 07:23 AM

6. The Hyde Amendment was passed before Reagan

 

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Response to Jose Garcia (Reply #6)

Thu Jun 6, 2019, 07:35 AM

11. And Reagan took it up with GUSTO

 

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Response to katmondoo (Reply #11)

Thu Jun 6, 2019, 07:43 AM

18. How did Reagan enforce it differently than Carter?

 

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Response to Jose Garcia (Original post)

Thu Jun 6, 2019, 07:18 AM

4. Easy for you to say.

 

I’m fucking tired of my rights to my body constantly being a bargaining chip for elections.

No more back of the fucking bus. Women’s rights are human rights.

Joe needs to walk this back.
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Response to MrsCoffee (Reply #4)

Thu Jun 6, 2019, 08:17 AM

27. +1 EOM

 

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Response to Jose Garcia (Original post)

Thu Jun 6, 2019, 07:22 AM

5. It became law in 1994. 25 yrs...

 

...and like every law, should be revisited either by court or congress should questions arise about negative effects it might cause.
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Response to Jose Garcia (Original post)

Thu Jun 6, 2019, 07:27 AM

7. Do you have a cite for your contention about the majority of voters?

 

Because Planned Parenthood says the exact opposite.

“The Democratic Party platform is crystal clear in supporting the right to safe, legal abortion and repealing the Hyde Amendment, a position held by the majority of voters,” said Kelley Robinson, the executive director of Planned Parenthood.
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Response to Demit (Reply #7)

Thu Jun 6, 2019, 07:31 AM

9. Of course I do:

 

https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/08/12/taxation-and-morality
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Response to Jose Garcia (Original post)

Thu Jun 6, 2019, 07:30 AM

8. If the religious right gets to decide that our federal tax dollars cannot pay for abortions,

 

then we should also eliminate Section 501(c)(3) of the U.S. tax code, the part where churches are exempt from paying federal, state, and local income and property taxes.
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Response to sop (Reply #8)

Thu Jun 6, 2019, 07:41 AM

14. 501(c)(3) also exempts Planned Parenthood from paying taxes

 

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Response to Jose Garcia (Reply #14)

Thu Jun 6, 2019, 08:27 AM

28. The religious right wants to prohibit federal support for Planned Parenthood altogether,

 

totally eliminating all the necessary medical services this "charitable organization" provides women who cannot pay for their healthcare elsewhere, not just abortions. Since the GOP wants to essentially shut down Planned Parenthood completely, it wouldn't matter if they're no longer tax exempt.

I believe it would be hypocritical to continue exempting churches from paying taxes. Besides, there are too many phony charitable organizations dodging taxes under the IRS' 501(c)(3) provision. That part of the tax code needs to be completely re-written to only apply to real charities, not a bunch of sleazy political action groups scamming taxpayers. In the meantime, since the religious right wants to dictate how our tax dollars can be allocated, their churches can start paying taxes.
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Response to Jose Garcia (Original post)

Thu Jun 6, 2019, 07:35 AM

12. "Why is everyone mad about Biden supporting a policy that shits on poor people and,

 

disproportionately, black people and people of color? We've always done so and everyone supports it! Sheesh."
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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #12)

Thu Jun 6, 2019, 07:42 AM

16. +1

 

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primary today, I would vote for:
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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #12)

Thu Jun 6, 2019, 07:47 AM

21. +1

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Jose Garcia (Original post)

Thu Jun 6, 2019, 07:37 AM

13. If women choose to stay home in 2020, we will be CRUSHED at the polls.

 

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Response to bullwinkle428 (Reply #13)

Thu Jun 6, 2019, 07:42 AM

15. Did women choose to stay home in 2008 or 2012?

 

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Response to Jose Garcia (Reply #15)

Thu Jun 6, 2019, 07:46 AM

19. Did Democrats campaign on maintaining the Hyde Amendment in '08 and '12?

 

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Response to bullwinkle428 (Reply #19)

Thu Jun 6, 2019, 08:09 AM

25. He never came out against the Hyde Amendment in 2008

 

In 2010 he signed an executive order affirming the ban on federal funds for abortions.
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Response to bullwinkle428 (Reply #13)

Thu Jun 6, 2019, 09:43 AM

36. "women" are not a voting group to count on

 

Or Hillary would be President. Plenty of women are anti-choice, let alone for public funding.
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Response to Jose Garcia (Original post)

Thu Jun 6, 2019, 07:43 AM

17. It's a shitty position for him to take in 2019

 

That people can't see that makes me wonder why.

Let's stop shitting on poor women. How about that? That isn't pandering, it's being a fucking liberal.
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Response to Jose Garcia (Original post)

Thu Jun 6, 2019, 07:46 AM

20. Good 'ole American hypocrisy.

 

"A majority of voters want to keep the Hyde Amendment" and a majority of voters also support DOD policy and budget that is responsible the deaths of hundreds of innocent men, women and children in conflict zones around the globe......

Those hundreds of men, women and children are invisible and unknown to most all Americans and it's ironic that so is the human tissue in question related to an abortion.

Then there's also the deaths and misery of refugees at our southern border.....
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Response to Jose Garcia (Original post)

Thu Jun 6, 2019, 07:58 AM

22. You are correct.

 

A lot of Democratic voters see abortion as an "elective" procedure. Their (wrong) view is that it is simply laziness to wear a condom or take a pill that necessitates abortion.

Naturally, they are not willing to expend tax dollars towards it. (Rape/Incest/Threat to a mother's life are covered.)

I don't agree with the people who think that way but their existence is a reality we cannot ignore.

Some self-righteous people insist on "only if X campaigned on this issue they will change their mind" which IMO foolhardy.

This election will be won on broad issues of decency, normalcy, competence, restoring America's stature and cleaning up a mess. Focusing on minutiae of issues is neither productive nor is it a winning strategy.

Go Joe !!!!
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Response to LibFarmer (Reply #22)

Thu Jun 6, 2019, 08:43 AM

30. Rape/incest/threat to a mother's life are no longer covered everywhere.

 

And Republicans plan to make that country wide.

Their existence is something we may have to accept. But doing what is right is in no way “ignoring them” anymore than hate laws are ignoring bigots.
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Response to LibFarmer (Reply #22)

Thu Jun 6, 2019, 09:44 AM

37. +1

 

In fact, birth control isn't covered is it? That would be the better thing to fund for poorer people.
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Response to treestar (Reply #37)

Thu Jun 6, 2019, 10:22 AM

38. +1 nt

 

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Response to Jose Garcia (Original post)

Thu Jun 6, 2019, 08:06 AM

23. My question is how does this amendment ever have a snowball's

 

chance of getting repealed. Everyone agrees that there will be no epiphany among Republicans and that their votes are needed for this to be done.

This repeal will never happen - face reality.
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Response to Skya Rhen (Reply #23)

Thu Jun 6, 2019, 08:38 AM

29. Well it certainly won't ever get repealed with a president who supports it.

 

So, there’s that.

I say we start from a better vantage point than never.
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Response to MrsCoffee (Reply #29)

Thu Jun 6, 2019, 08:48 AM

32. The statement from Biden's campaign said he would consider repealing it

 

if something were to happen to Roe. So once things get REALLY bad -- meaning affecting more white people and people with means -- THEN he'll know it's time to do something!

"He has not at this point changed his position on the Hyde Amendment. The Hyde Amendment does not prevent organizations in the US that provide lifesaving health care services for women from receiving the federal funding they need," Biden's campaign said. "But given the current draconian attempts to limit access to abortion, if avenues for women to access their protected rights under Roe V Wade are closed, he would be open to repeal."


https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/05/politics/joe-biden-abortion-hyde-amendment/index.html


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Response to Jose Garcia (Original post)

Thu Jun 6, 2019, 08:07 AM

24. I saw a poll that indicated a majority of voters in key states don't want the Hyde Amendment.

 

It didn't use the name of the amendment. Just the question that all health care funding should be available, no matter what one's views on abortion may be. I think the poll included a higher percentage of poor & Af. Americans, though.

Biden used to be anti-abortion.
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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #24)

Thu Jun 6, 2019, 08:10 AM

26. "Approval" and "disapproval" of Hyde varies widely depending on how the question is asked.

 

As Biden himself showed!
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Response to Jose Garcia (Original post)

Thu Jun 6, 2019, 08:47 AM

31. Defending the Hyde Amendment when Choice is under attack is disqualifying

 

Running on that guarantees a Trump re-election.


Biden is wrong for American women and girls.
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Response to Jose Garcia (Original post)

Thu Jun 6, 2019, 09:22 AM

33. +1. Been in place since 1976 with a few modifications. Good luck getting it changed now when states

 

are pushing to outlaw abortion.
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Response to Jose Garcia (Original post)

Thu Jun 6, 2019, 09:32 AM

34. You are wrong. Show your evidence that it's a "political loser."

 

The polling data that I found indicate that repeal is a winning issue. Especially in battleground states.

A full 76 percent voters agreed with the statement, “However we feel about abortion, politicians should not be allowed to deny a woman's health coverage for it just because she's poor.” The voters who agreed included 76 percent of independents, 66 percent of Republicans, and 89 percent of Democrats.

Voters also said they would support a bill that would require Medicaid to cover all pregnancy-related care, including abortion, by a margin of 53 percent to 41 percent. The support for the repeal of Hyde is even stronger with millennials, a group Clinton is making a special effort to win over. More than two-thirds of young voters said they support Medicaid coverage for all reproductive health care, including abortion.

Source: https://prospect.org/blog/tapped/hyde-amendment-turns-40-poll-shows-support-its-repeal


This poll was focused on the battleground states of Colorado, Florida, Iowa, Michigan, New Hampshire, Nevada, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virginia, and Wisconsin. It's a 2016 poll, so it's pretty recent.

It's your opinion that it isn't a winning issue. Polling doesn't bear that out.

Besides, do you think women and progressives have an appetite for going backward with reproductive freedom? It is under assault. Biden coming out for repeal would draw attention to this important issue.
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Response to Politicub (Reply #34)

Thu Jun 6, 2019, 10:29 AM

40. Interesting stuff

 

How did the polling go when people were asked if they support their tax dollars being used to fund abortions? Because that’s how the GOP will frame it in 2020.
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Response to BannonsLiver (Reply #40)

Thu Jun 6, 2019, 11:35 AM

41. If we run from republican framing of issues then we'll never get anywhere

 

Republicans are going to lie and frame everything as being the worst idea in the world. Trump will give people stupid nicknames. There will be a swiftboating attempt. We have all seen this movie before.

If we are going to reclaim the narrative, I believe we need to do so boldly. Otherwise our message gets lost and washed out.

I feel like this message thread is talking about two different things. It seems almost everyone on DU does not support the Hyde amendment, but we're split down the middle on what to do about it. There's one conversation about political expediency -- not rocking the boat, so to speak -- and a separate conversation about what democrats stand for. It's positive that we air our views in this forum rather than just talk about political strategy.

Though I'm going to vote for our eventual nominee and believe Biden would be a fantastic president, I'm having trouble squaring the circle with his support of the amendment and how it affects reproductive rights. There aren't many opportunities for democrats to really tell the country what we stand for. Are we squandering that opportunity by hiding behind messaging, or do we want to tell people that we stand for a woman's right to choose and reproductive health should be part of what Medicaid covers, including abortion. Otherwise, we are furthering the impression that abortion is somehow bad or wrong.

This issue will blow over. I'm sure of that. I don't believe the discussion should be tabled, but attention spans are short. There will be something new to discuss in the coming days and we'll come together and accept the nominee, no matter who he or she may be.
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Response to Politicub (Reply #41)

Thu Jun 6, 2019, 11:43 AM

43. Yes that's true.

 

But the fact is how we frame issues and how the GOP frames issues does matter. How those responses are crafted matters. What language is used matters.

This is a game that is more sophisticated than A + B = C. The republicans won’t use words like “reproductive services” they will call it abortion. They will say the Dems want to take your money and spend it to pay for abortions for poor people.

So those who think the Hyde Amendment is worth making a campaign issue need to be able to defend that position with something beyond emotional appeals. Personally, I have zero shits to give either way. The only thing I care about is winning. I’d vote for a god damn tomato if it meant being rid of Donnie.
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Response to Politicub (Reply #34)

Thu Jun 6, 2019, 12:13 PM

45. That poll you cite was deliberately and badly skewed to show more support for repeal of the

 

Hyde Amendment than actually exists.

And you KNOW it was skewed because the page you linked to at the American Prospect EXPLAINS both WHY and HOW it was skewed:

https://prospect.org/blog/tapped/hyde-amendment-turns-40-poll-shows-support-its-repeal


But recent polling suggests that women in key battleground states might find Clinton’s Hyde Amendment opposition compelling. Named for former Illinois Senator Henry Hyde, a Republican, the amendment prohibits abortion coverage for women enrolled in federally funded health-care plans such as Medicaid, which serves low-income families; Tri-Care, which serves military families; and the government health-care plan that covers federal employees.

The poll was conducted by Hart Research Associates for All Above All, a coalition of organizations working to end insurance coverage bans on abortion. Pollsters focused on the battleground states of Colorado, Florida, Iowa, Michigan, New Hampshire, Nevada, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virginia, and Wisconsin. The poll targeted 1,155 registered voters and included larger-than-average samples of both young voters age 18 to 34, and of African Americans and Hispanics.



See the thread I posted earlier about an October 2016 poll that wasn't skewed, and that showed much less support for repealing the Hyde Amendment:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287141916
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Response to Jose Garcia (Original post)

Thu Jun 6, 2019, 10:24 AM

39. Purity demands we lose nobly then.

 

We must lose this election in order to save women and their rights down the road.
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Response to BannonsLiver (Reply #39)

Thu Jun 6, 2019, 11:37 AM

42. Yep; the naivete is appalling

 

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Response to LongtimeAZDem (Reply #42)

Thu Jun 6, 2019, 12:06 PM

44. So true...do some ever look at a Senate, April or an electoral college map?

 

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