Socialist? Bernie? Well, maybe, in a way, sort of, but it doesn't matter.

[MineralMan]

Here on DU, some sizable percentage of active members have some kind of definition of what socialism is. Reading threads on this subject, though, demonstrates that those definitions run the gamut of accuracy, from technically correct to hopelessly limited.

But, that's DU. Even here, many couldn't tell you what socialism means in terms of Bernie Sanders.

Out there in meatspace, though, the percentage of people who have any inkling of what socialism is, Bernie Sanders-style or any other, is minuscule. It's one of those words that is often used, but rarely actually understood.

In the USA, though, the word carries with it a very negative connotation. That's because it has been used as a pejorative word for decades, beginning shortly after WWII. It's a political word that is used to attack politicians, primarily.

If, by some chance, Senator Sanders wins the nomination of the Democratic Party in 2020, you can count on the Republicans to hang a sign around his neck that simply reads "Socialist!" You'll see posters with distinctly Soviet era designs and garish colors, depicting a scowling Bernie Sanders along with the word, "Socialist!" in big red letters.

You'll see attack ads that make Bernie Sanders look like an old Soviet leader. You won't hear Sanders, though. Instead, you'll hear an ominous male voice-over that uses the word "Socialist" multiple times as a threat.

Socialism, the word, is not popular in the United States. Politically, it is a concept word that can be used very effectively to attack almost any Democrat.

Senator Sanders is not helping himself.

[rampartc]

1. sanders has empraced the "conservative" definition of socialism

any action, or inaction, that benefits the citizens rather than the corporate class is socialism. in conservative terms socialism was destroyed in the 1980s by capitalist hero Reagan, and has never worked anywhere in the world.

[MineralMan]

2. As I said, all distinctions in the definition of socialism are a waste of time.

The word "Socialist" is poisonous when used to self-describe a politician. That video of Sanders saying "I am a socialist" will be seen everywhere if he becomes the nominee. Fortunately, I don't see much chance of that happening.

[TwilightZone]

4. Embracing a false interpretation of the term doesn't help.

We all know the conservative definition of socialism is nonsense.

Why is it a good thing that Sanders has adopted it?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

14. That's not the point, though.

I have been one of the repeated socialist-definers the OP references. I have used the classic definition of socialism to point out that what a lot of so-called Democratic socialists (or socialist Democrats; I'm not quite sure what Bernie calls himself these days) think is socialism - strong regulation of business plus effective government programs that provide a financial safety net - isn't. And the reason I have expended many electrons on this issue is that promoters of this non-socialist "socialism" are sticking a target on their backs by using a term that has become politically toxic, fairly or not, and however the user wishes to define it. If you want to advocate for ideas and programs that follow the Scandinavian model (those countries aren't socialist either), FFS don't call it socialism! Call it a new New Deal or something (while keeping in mind that many of FDR's programs were designed very specifically to respond to the extremely dire conditions of the Depression, and FDR himself was always a capitalist. FDR's New Deal probably saved capitalism in the US). While he's at it, Bernie should also probably drop the dated '60s-era college campus SWP meeting jargon referencing oligarchs and the corporate class. I halfway expect him to start going off on running-dog dog lackeys of capitalist imperialism and bourgeois traitors to the proletariat.

[TwilightZone]

3. The misunderstanding starts with Sanders himself.

He's not a socialist, though he called himself that for years before adding the "democratic" qualifier relatively recently. He's actually closer to Warren's "capitalism with serious rules" viewpoint than anything approaching true socialism.

He also, somewhat interestingly, is not a member of the Democratic Socialists of America, many of whom espouse a truer form of socialism, including getting rid of capitalism. That view has zero chance of becoming reality in the US anytime soon.

For Sanders, it's basically an own goal - he's backed himself into a corner by labeling himself a socialist for decades, and he has a significant uphill climb in getting the public at large to accept socialism as a positive. Part of the problem is that what he calls socialism isn't actually socialism which further muddies the waters.

[MineralMan]

6. Well, Bernie is not the only one who misuses the word.

It's a poorly understood word all around, isn't it?

In US politics, it's also a toxic word.

[TwilightZone]

15. Oh, certainly.

Someone of his stature misusing it tends to filter down to his supporters, but there are plenty of others who don't understand it either, including seemingly the entire conservative side of the aisle.

The latest seems to be that Sanders has adopted the conservative interpretation of the word. Why, I have no idea, since that interpretation is nonsense. At this point, I think he's trying to make it as vague and all-encompassing as possible hoping people will buy it.

[Hortensis]

5. :) What's funnier, or rather tragic? That some followers deny

his lifelong commitment to class-based revolution and both hard-core and soft-peddled socialism and socialist ideas?

Or that most of them, both deniers and acceptors of just who their leader really is, don't really know what socialism is?

POLITICO: Liberty Union was a ragtag new party — small, anti-war, left-wing — that existed only in Vermont. Some people called it a socialist party, but it had no official affiliation. Sanders and other members had generally egalitarian sensibilities, advocating for the young, the old, the poor and the rights of women and workers. Sanders was more Old Left than New Left, “a 1930s radical, not a 1960s radical,” as Garrison Nelson, a University of Vermont political science professor, would later put it.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/07/bernie-sanders-vermont-119927

Any who've read his history know he's never changed, only learned how to talk to larger audiences without repelling them.

“He’s a unidirectional wind-up — I don’t want to use the word toy, because he’s nobody’s toy, but he’s a growler,” said Denny Morrisseau, an anti-war activist who was a Liberty Union member in the early ‘70s. “Straight ahead, growl. Straight ahead, growl.”

“… the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer and the vast majority in the middle are having a harder and harder time …” “… and the situation is getting worse …”
“This,” he wrote in one of his releases in 1974,” is the burning and fundamental issue of this campaign.”

Of every campaign.

Yup. He left out the part about Democrats and Republicans being really just the same, though, "Tweedledum and Tweedledee." He's never changed his thoughts on that either.

Speaking of, 2016 is not the first time Sanders functioned as a splinter candidate and threw an office held by a Democrat to the Republicans. In 1976 in Vermont he ran for governor as the Liberty Union candidate, couldn't possibly win, but did split off enough votes to help the Republicans take over state government. Why not when there really is no significant difference between us to "a 1930s radical"?

[MineralMan]

8. Well, in this primary season, I think he has talked himself

right out of contention, frankly. We've "been there and done that" already.

Elizabeth Warren is sucking away Sanders supporters more quickly than he can add new ones.

[cannabis_flower]

7. Booga Booga!

[MineralMan]

9. Indeed!

[cannabis_flower]

10. My point..

Is that your post sounded like fearmongering.

[MineralMan]

11. I recognized your point.

I'm not fearmongering, though. Think about it.

[cannabis_flower]

12. I think perhaps

you are showing your age.

[MineralMan]

13. I can do no other. I am the age I am.

I'm a little younger than Bernie, though, but recognize his rhetoric from my more youthful days.