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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 10:10 PM

 

I'm sick of Democrats calling other Democrats racist for a 1% poll bump.

It doesn't get any more selfish than that.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Reply I'm sick of Democrats calling other Democrats racist for a 1% poll bump. (Original post)
MadDAsHell Jul 2019 OP
SouthernProgressive Jul 2019 #1
Galraedia Jul 2019 #6
Honeycombe8 Jul 2019 #82
LanternWaste Jul 2019 #86
Amishman Jul 2019 #90
EffieBlack Jul 2019 #2
bluewater Jul 2019 #19
Celerity Jul 2019 #30
SunSeeker Jul 2019 #48
stopbush Jul 2019 #52
mcar Jul 2019 #92
SunsetDreams2 Jul 2019 #3
Galraedia Jul 2019 #4
EffieBlack Jul 2019 #5
Galraedia Jul 2019 #10
EffieBlack Jul 2019 #17
MontanaFarmer Jul 2019 #78
Bradshaw3 Jul 2019 #28
LanternWaste Jul 2019 #87
Bradshaw3 Jul 2019 #89
58Sunliner Jul 2019 #46
tishaLA Jul 2019 #8
Galraedia Jul 2019 #15
tishaLA Jul 2019 #16
Galraedia Jul 2019 #21
tishaLA Jul 2019 #23
Celerity Jul 2019 #60
Celerity Jul 2019 #59
LanternWaste Jul 2019 #88
emmaverybo Jul 2019 #42
tishaLA Jul 2019 #45
emmaverybo Jul 2019 #50
tishaLA Jul 2019 #51
emmaverybo Jul 2019 #55
Kahuna7 Jul 2019 #79
Kaleva Jul 2019 #12
Galraedia Jul 2019 #18
Kaleva Jul 2019 #20
InAbLuEsTaTe Jul 2019 #61
Thekaspervote Jul 2019 #7
tishaLA Jul 2019 #9
Skittles Jul 2019 #13
Kaleva Jul 2019 #14
emmaverybo Jul 2019 #49
Kaleva Jul 2019 #81
emmaverybo Jul 2019 #85
Kaleva Jul 2019 #93
Post removed Jul 2019 #11
pnwmom Jul 2019 #22
ucrdem Jul 2019 #24
EffieBlack Jul 2019 #26
ucrdem Jul 2019 #27
EffieBlack Jul 2019 #32
ucrdem Jul 2019 #33
EffieBlack Jul 2019 #38
ucrdem Jul 2019 #39
EffieBlack Jul 2019 #43
ucrdem Jul 2019 #47
EffieBlack Jul 2019 #54
emmaverybo Jul 2019 #56
EffieBlack Jul 2019 #57
emmaverybo Jul 2019 #58
pnwmom Jul 2019 #67
pnwmom Jul 2019 #66
Celerity Jul 2019 #35
ucrdem Jul 2019 #40
Celerity Jul 2019 #44
ucrdem Jul 2019 #53
pnwmom Jul 2019 #68
Voltaire2 Jul 2019 #72
True Blue American Jul 2019 #76
Celerity Jul 2019 #84
Hoyt Jul 2019 #29
ucrdem Jul 2019 #31
Hoyt Jul 2019 #75
pnwmom Jul 2019 #65
EffieBlack Jul 2019 #25
Celerity Jul 2019 #34
Voltaire2 Jul 2019 #71
Celerity Jul 2019 #73
Voltaire2 Jul 2019 #70
customerserviceguy Jul 2019 #36
Chicago1980 Jul 2019 #37
AlexSFCA Jul 2019 #41
Post removed Jul 2019 #62
Skya Rhen Jul 2019 #63
treestar Jul 2019 #64
Voltaire2 Jul 2019 #69
Mike Nelson Jul 2019 #74
stonecutter357 Jul 2019 #77
MrsCoffee Jul 2019 #80
Honeycombe8 Jul 2019 #83
mcar Jul 2019 #91
jaceaf Jul 2019 #94
coeur_de_lion Jul 2019 #95

Response to MadDAsHell (Original post)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 10:20 PM

1. Insinuations of racism, bigotry and sexism...

 

In politics has gotten out of hand. And if it sticks, it can hurt. One of the problems with unfounded or deceptive insinuations is that there is so much of the above really going on and it’s toxic.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to SouthernProgressive (Reply #1)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 10:34 PM

6. I've had a Harris supporter here tell me that

 

For white males
There is literally no such thing as discrimination against them


Think about that for a second. They are saying that because a person is white that discrimination literally cannot exist. You either believe all racism is wrong or you don't.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Galraedia (Reply #6)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 07:59 AM

82. +1. nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Galraedia (Reply #6)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 12:51 PM

86. I imagine it happens in isolated incidents.

 

But thankfully, there is no institutional discrimination against white males... despite the desire to affect a trendy oppression.
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Response to SouthernProgressive (Reply #1)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 01:07 PM

90. It is getting out of hand and overused

 

At times it feels like it is used as a conversation stopper to suppress dissent.

Yes racism and sexism are prevalent and a problem, but the accusation is being made far too casually. It is a serious subject and casual/overuse undermines what we want to accomplish.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to MadDAsHell (Original post)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 10:20 PM

2. Ratfucking

 

Next ...
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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #2)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 11:02 PM

19. Thanks for cutting to the heart of it.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #2)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 12:14 AM

30. +10000 plus, in 2 polls she had a net gain on Biden of plus 19 and plus 20 points

 

silly silly for the OP to say




also NO ONE called Biden a racist, complete rubbish

and all his drop is on him, he is the one making mistakes

it is oh so questionable to think he can keep doing those, putting in performances like he has at, for example, at the Poor People's Campaign or the debate (plus problematic statements like the NRA is not the enemy, or a hoodie wearing black kid may be next poet laureate not a gangbanger, etc etc etc) and take on the madman monster Rump one on one

the primaries are not designed to be coronation or a lovefest or a dog and pony show or kabuki theatre

no candidates are going to get a pass through

not Pete, not Joe, not Kamala, not Warren, not Bernie, not any of them

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to Celerity (Reply #30)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 01:16 AM

48. THIS

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Celerity (Reply #30)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 01:28 AM

52. Well spoke

 

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Response to Celerity (Reply #30)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 01:16 PM

92. +1000!

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to MadDAsHell (Original post)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 10:22 PM

3. I didn't see any Democratic Candidate do that nt

 

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Response to MadDAsHell (Original post)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 10:27 PM

4. Selfish is doing that to the least racist white guy on the planet and then profiting off of it.

 

That is the most pathetic thing I've ever seen a democrat do to another democrat on a debate stage. Kamala Harris should worry about her own record first. She supported keeping non-violent offenders in prison because letting them out would lower the prison labor, didn't prosecute Steve Mnuchin who later donated to her campaign, left an innocent man in prison 2 years after he was exonerated, put parents in jail for truancy...etc.
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Response to Galraedia (Reply #4)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 10:31 PM

5. I thought Trump was the least racist guy on the planet

 

Here’s a clue - when people claim someone is the “least racist guy on the planet,” nothing they say after that has an ounce of credibility since only someone who knows absolutely nothing about race would say anything so ridiculous (the same goes for “he doesn’t have a racist bone in his body”).

You might want to find some different terminology to defend your guy if you want to be taken seriously by anyone who knows better.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #5)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 10:44 PM

10. Do I look like a Trump supporter?

 

If I wanted to support a white nationalist I'd have voted for Trump in 2016 and not Hillary Clinton. All you and Kamala Harris care about is calling every white person, including those in your own party, a racist or at least inferring they're racist.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to Galraedia (Reply #10)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 10:51 PM

17. Did I say you look like a Trump supporter?

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Galraedia (Reply #10)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 07:29 AM

78. Saying "i don't believe you're a racist"

 

is different than calling him a racist. Harris said that first, and i think it's true. If calling out an individual's support for policies that made life worse for black people, or at least didn't make it better, is taken by that person and their supporters as calling them racist, perhaps some further self-examination is warranted.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #5)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 11:57 PM

28. You might try to be less condescending ...

 

... if you want to be taken seriously by anyone who knows better.
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Response to Bradshaw3 (Reply #28)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 12:53 PM

87. Ironic that that you should say that of someone else.

 

Bemusing will be the rationalization to follow.
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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #87)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 01:03 PM

89. Nothing is as amusing as your stalking of me

 

As I've explained to you many times before, there will be no discussion with you since you are simply making personal attacks and do not deserve any response other than to tell you, again, that your stalking has no effect on me other than amusement.
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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #5)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 01:12 AM

46. Here's a clue-when you try to invalidate someone by drawing a parallel to a known creep-

 

and smear them by association, don't claim to have credibility, or an ounce of honesty.
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Response to Galraedia (Reply #4)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 10:41 PM

8. "She supported keeping non-violent offenders in prison"

 

You don't want to take a look at the 94 crime bill, do you?

And we won't talk about the bankruptcy bill. And if you think Sen Harris is bad re: Mnuchin, wait til you get a load of what Biden did to be one of the best friends of big banks.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to tishaLA (Reply #8)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 10:48 PM

15. Which is more recent? Something that Democrats supported in 1994

 

Or something Kamala Harris was doing just a few years ago.?
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Response to Galraedia (Reply #15)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 10:51 PM

16. The bannkruptcy bill and coddling big banks

 

was in 2005. Which do you think impacted more people?
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Response to tishaLA (Reply #16)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 11:11 PM

21. And Kamala Harris is fundraising with the former Wells Fargo CEO

 

But I'll give you that and agree that it was wrong. However, Republicans were going to pass it with or without his help.

Biden, by contrast, saw the bill as an admittedly imperfect but fundamentally sound compromise that he improved by participating in crafting it. By cutting down on bankruptcies, the legislation helped not just credit card companies but also consumers who benefit from lower interest rates. The legislation contained provisions intended to protect low-income households and in part thanks to Biden’s work made some other changes that are favorable to the interests of divorced women and their children.


https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/5/6/18518381/baccpa-bankruptcy-bill-2005-biden-warren
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Response to Galraedia (Reply #21)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 11:40 PM

23. Why embellish stories?

 

The story is that she held a fundraiser hosted by a former Wells Fargo executive, not the CEO. And, of course, he is no longer associated with the company, whereas the execs Biden coddled were actively with the company when he was doing their work for them and shepherded bill after bill that was friendly to the industry through congress--not just one bankruptcy bill. You don't think MBNA hired Hunter straight our of law school just because he was so brilliant, do you?
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to tishaLA (Reply #23)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 02:15 AM

60. I fleshed this out more below

 

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287184812#post59
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Response to Galraedia (Reply #21)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 02:13 AM

59. lol, he was NOT the bloody CEO, talk about ludicrous overreach

 

Miguel Bustos, worked from 2013 to 2017 as Wells Fargo’s senior vice president of government and community relations, where he oversaw lobbying and community outreach efforts in six western states: California, Oregon, Washington, Alaska, Montana and Utah.

He wasn't even national level, and was probably barely in the top 100 in the overall corporate food chain.

He also was a big part (director of Latinx outreach) of Al Gore's campaign in 2000 and worked in the Clinton White House. Also worked for Barbara Lee and Ron Dellums.

this was his 'big role' in the Wells Fargo mess

During the scandal, Bustos defended the bank when the city council of Vallejo, California, considered moving its accounts away from Wells Fargo. While Bustos admitted the bank had “made mistakes,” he also pleaded with the city council to stick with it.

“The one thing I learned in life is that no one is perfect, no one,” he said, according to a September 2017 article in the Vallejo Times-Herald. “But one thing I learned is that you have forgiveness and you have redemption. What we are asking is, you know what, work with us to be a better bank.”

The city council eventually voted to cut ties with Wells Fargo.


He worked mainly in philanthropics before and after his 4 year placement at Wells Fargo

https://www.linkedin.com/in/miguelbustos/

Experience
GLIDEsf
Senior Director, Center for Social Justice

LocationSan Francisco

The Center for Social Justice is involved in innovative approaches and solutions, including an unprecedented training experience for California police departments and District Attorneys for working with homeless and drug-engaged populations, a unique “pilgrimage” model of community building for racial truth-telling and reconciliation, and coalition-based drafting of key local legislation funding affordable housing and homeless-intervention services.

Director of Intergovernmental Affairs
Company NameOffice of Mayor Ron Dellums

• Served as the Mayor’s Senior Policy Advisor and Strategic Public/Private Partnerships Counselor.
• Managed the city's Bank on Oakland program aimed at banking the unbanked throughout Alameda County by providing financial literacy opportunities and assisting the unbanked, such as students, parents and laborers, in establishing bank accounts....

Congresswoman Barbara Lee
Deputy District Director

• Co-directed the Congressional District Office for the East Bay, covering the cities of Oakland, Berkeley, Alameda, Albany, Piedmont, San Leandro, and Emeryville.
• Developed district-wide policy priorities, such as financial literacy, economic empowerment, environmental sustainability, education, health, workforce development, and housing....


https://hiponline.org/five-directors-on-expanded-hip-board-bring-varied-areas-of-expertise/

Miguel Bustos, who is based in his native San Francisco, is the Wells Fargo senior vice president, community relations, and outreach regional director for Northern and Central California, Montana, and Alaska. He previously managed grantmaking for the Levi Strauss Foundation in Latin America and Canada focusing on HIV/AIDS, asset building, and workers’ rights, as well as being responsible for Community Involvement Teams in both places. He was also responsible for the foundation’s U.S. HIV/AIDS grantmaking endeavors.

Beyond the philanthropic sector, Miguel has been a distinguished public servant who advised President Clinton and Vice President Gore at the White House, and worked for U.S. Rep. Barbara Lee (D-Oakland). He also served as director of boards and commissions under then-San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom and as director of intergovernmental affairs for then-Oakland Mayor Ronald V. Dellums.

He earned a bachelor of arts degree in international affairs from Holy Names University, in Oakland, California; a master of arts degree in international relations from American University, in Washington, D.C., and a master’s degree in business administration with a focus on corporate social responsibility from St. Mary’s College of California. In addition to joining the HIP board, Miguel also currently sits on the boards of Glide Memorial Church and the Mexican Museum, both in San Francisco.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to Galraedia (Reply #15)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 12:55 PM

88. Let's pretend a distinction lacking a relevant difference

 

to better prevent holding our own candidates to our own standards.

Brilliant.
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Response to tishaLA (Reply #8)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 01:04 AM

42. Have you looked at it? Look at VAWA, gun control, hate crimes, billions allocated for drug

 

deterrence courts, community policing, gang prevention.

The victims of crimes during the crack epidemic were who? Rich whites? No. 95% law abiding citizens were living with the 5% who preyed upon predominantly black neighborhoods, black families, black children.

There was an outcry from these neighborhoods for law enforcement and the justice system to take firm action to rid communities of carjackings, crack house crime, gangs, drive by shootings, gang recruitment, murderers...

Yes, unintended consequences of crack vs. cocaine penalties, third strikes bad idea in practice but was to remedy revolving door residents were so sick of.

Caused mass incarceration? Mass incarceration had many factors contributing to it and the lead-up was years before 1994.

Biden has pointed out the parts of the crime bill he need never disown and the racially disproportionate penalties for crack vs. cocaine he would change. He has also pointed out the role that states played in enacting parts of the bill.

This bill did not arise out of racial animus. It was not in its parts or its sum intended to punish one part of the population for the racist will of another.

It was actually intended to heed a call for law enforcement and the justice system to stop dismissing black crime victims and ignoring black communities where the burden of the crack
Epidemic and its related crime fell so heavily.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to emmaverybo (Reply #42)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 01:08 AM

45. If you wanna defen his vote for the crime bill, have at it.

 

You can also defend his bills coddling the banking industry and his work on the bankruptcy bill. I'll bet they'll play great post-great recession.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to tishaLA (Reply #45)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 01:20 AM

50. He can well defend parts of its legislation. Have you even bothered to look at all of it? NT

 

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Response to emmaverybo (Reply #50)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 01:23 AM

51. Yup. I even looked at,

 

and urged by representatives to reject, his bank coddling and bankruptcy bills contemporaneously
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Response to tishaLA (Reply #51)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 01:45 AM

55. Did not find anything about banks in VAWA, gun control legislation, or anything I mentioned. NT

 

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Response to emmaverybo (Reply #42)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 07:45 AM

79. All that stuff is still happening in Newark, NJ where Cory was mayor..

 

Even Cory acknowledged that in one week, 7 people were shot in his Newark neighborhood.I often say, Cory wouldn't make it out of his neighborhood without a security detail. The only difference since 1994 is, I don't believe crack is the cause. I believe it's just gang bangers who get off on harming other people. I moved out of Newark because of my fear of just leaving my neighborhood.

It's easy for people to who don't live in crime infested areas to bleat about how it's destroying families. Please. The only families being destroyed are the families of the victims.
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Response to Galraedia (Reply #4)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 10:45 PM

12. It was Judge Snyder who ordered that Larsen remain in prison until Court of Appeals ruled on case

 

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #12)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 10:58 PM

18. He was in there for 2 years because Kamala Harris tried to appeal his release

 

But two years after he was supposed to be released, Larsen remains behind bars while the California attorney general appeals the decision. The state's main argument: He did not file his legal paperwork seeking release on time.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2012-aug-21-la-me-innocent-20120821-story.html
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Response to Galraedia (Reply #18)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 11:02 PM

20. "But she delayed her order until the U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals resolves the legal dispute."

 

The judge could have released Larsen but she chose not to.
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Response to Galraedia (Reply #4)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 03:21 AM

61. What is Kamala's response to that legitimate criticism?

 


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
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Response to MadDAsHell (Original post)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 10:40 PM

7. Indeed!

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to MadDAsHell (Original post)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 10:44 PM

9. I haven't seen Democrats call other Democrats racist

 

did I miss something?
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Response to tishaLA (Reply #9)


Response to tishaLA (Reply #9)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 10:46 PM

14. I haven't seen that either.

 

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #14)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 01:17 AM

49. I don't think you're a war-monger but you voted for the XYZ war. There was a young man blown

 

to bits in that war...I was that young man’s mother.

I don’t think you’re a murderer, but you voted for abortion rights. There was a mother who almost
aborted...I am that child.

I don’t think you were an unethical prosecutor, Kamala, but...

I don't think you were a part of the Catholic Church’s efforts to cover up rampant pedophile sex abuse, but...
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Response to emmaverybo (Reply #49)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 07:58 AM

81. I don't think you are a Nazi but you did fight for Germany in WWII

 

The majority of German soldiers were not members of the Nazi party and it would have been erroneous to label all as such.

Most Catholic priests are not pedophiles but it would be quite okay to take such Catholic priests who had knowledge of priests committing abuse to task for not speaking out or taking action.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #81)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 12:29 PM

85. My point is that "I don't think you are XYZ, but..." usually gives the impression "you" is. NT

 

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Response to emmaverybo (Reply #85)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 01:30 PM

93. But not specifying can also leave the impression "you" is.

 

Guilty by association.
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Response to MadDAsHell (Original post)


Response to MadDAsHell (Original post)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 11:28 PM

22. She neither called him racist nor insinuated nor suggested he was racist.

 

She wanted to know what his current views were, and if they had changed since he worked with Eastland against busing for desecration.
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Response to pnwmom (Reply #22)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 11:46 PM

24. No, she asked if he was wrong to oppose busing in America, and he corrected her.

 

He didn't oppose busing and he didn't oppose her program, which was not federally mandated. It was voluntarily established by the city -- which is exactly what Biden supported, then and now. As far as the debate goes, he won the point.

And that's when the sparks really started to fly, if I can put that politely.

You can read the full transcript here: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/full-transcript-2019-democratic-debate-night-two-sortable-topic-n1023601
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Joe Biden

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #24)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 11:50 PM

26. A sure sign people know they think their candidate screwed up

 

is when they consistently repeat a proven and provable misstatement about his record and how he described it.

You can say it as often as you want, but repeating over and over the same false information won’t turn it into fact.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #26)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 11:52 PM

27. What's false?

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #32)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 12:21 AM

33. Yes, he opposed federally mandated busing.

 

But I believe we already established that.
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Response to ucrdem (Reply #33)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 12:44 AM

38. What part of he tried to destroy voluntary busing are you having trouble grasping?

 

Have you read his amendment? Even HE said that it would cut the funding for and put other restrictions on voluntary busing programs but wouldn’t touch court-ordered busing.

He also did other things to make clear he opposed busing and never at the time made any distinction between court-ordered busing and voluntary busing. For example, he consistently criticized all busing, calling it a “bankrupt concept,” among other things. Only recently did he start saying that it was only court-ordered busing he objected to, a claim completely contradicted by his own actions and words at the time.

I don’t expect you to accept this or to stop repeating the falsehood that he opposed only court-ordered busing (which was also debunked by Politifact, which found it to be mostly false). His actual position has been explained repeatedly and in considerable detail here and elsewhere and sources and quotes and links to legislation and his statements at the time have been posted over and over. But these facts have been ignored by people who keep making the same false claim.

But the facts are the facts, whether people acknowledge them or not.
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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #38)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 12:53 AM

39. Cutting a federal transit subsidy is not destroying anything. Anyway it failed.

 

Yes I read the two links, and did not find them compelling. No one has shown any evidence that Biden opposed local busing, only that he did not want the federal government forcing it on communities. There are other remedies to segregation and that one was intensely hated.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to ucrdem (Reply #39)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 01:05 AM

43. Why don't you go read Biden's legislation before discussing it any further

 

If nothing else, it might help prevent you from saying something as ridiculous as calling the federal funds Biden sought to slash “transit funds.”

And you also just contradicted yourself. If Biden tried to cut funding for voluntary busing programs, which he did, you can no longer claim that he was only opposed to “the federal government forcing it on communities” since the programs Biden tried to unfund weren’t “forced” on communities but were created voluntarily at the local level without any federal mandate. If Biden had his way and his legislation had become law, the voluntary programs he now claims to have supported would have been destroyed.

And, finally, apparently don’t realize that your Objection to the federal government forcing something I look up and this is a classic State’s Rights argument consistently used by Republicans and conservatives to keep the federal government from checking the rights of citizens. It’s the same argument used by anti-choice proponents who insist that portion rights should be determined at the local level. It’s the same argument used by anti-gay rights activists to insist that the federal government has no right to mandate state to recognize gay marriage. It’s the same argument used by the Conservative majority on the Supreme Court when it be wrong to that section 5 of the Voting Rights Act was an unlawful intrusions into state election processes.

So you might want to rethink that “we don’t need the federal government coming in here telling us we have to integrate our schools” argument.
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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #43)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 01:14 AM

47. Desegregation was mandatory whether it was federally funded or not.

 

Taking away a transit subsidy and what Biden saw as objectionable requirements linked to it would not have changed the law. That's what you keep missing. Communities -- not states, let's get that right please -- were still obliged to desegregate their schools. Biden thought directing money to busing where it wasn't court-ordered was misguided. He had plenty of company. But it doesn't mean he opposed desegregation and he had no objections to Kamala Harris' Berkeley busing program. And she was wrong to suggest that he did.
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Response to ucrdem (Reply #47)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 01:37 AM

54. Ok

 

Goodnight.
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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #54)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 01:48 AM

56. Best to go to bed when flaws are revealed in your argument. NT

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to emmaverybo (Reply #56)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 01:55 AM

57. Ok

 

Goodnight.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #57)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 02:03 AM

58. Same. I know you fight a good fight. I may not agree, but I admire. NT

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to ucrdem (Reply #47)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 05:25 AM

67. No one asked him about Berkeley's program. But it didn't fall under his one exception for his

 

general opposition to busing for desegregation -- that a district had deliberately segregated its children.

The Berkeley district had never imposed segregation on its students. It was housing patterns, redlining and whites-only covenants, that kept black children isolated in substandard schools.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to ucrdem (Reply #39)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 05:20 AM

66. He said busing was asinine. That busing was bankrupt. He didn't qualify that

 

with a distinction between federally ordered vs. district busing plans for integration.

But the reason Berkley established its plan was to avoid having some judge impose one.. Seattle did the same thing -- started its own plan to avoid having one imposed.

Kamala wouldn't have been on her bus if Biden had had his way. Her district didn't meet the one criterion he had: Biden said he would accept busing if it a district had actively practiced segregation. But Berkeley's segregation was caused by housing patterns related to redlining, not school district choices, so Berkley's plan would have been condemned by him, too.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #32)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 12:29 AM

35. and

 

CNN fact-checked the exchange

https://twitter.com/ddale8

Daniel DaleVerified account
@ddale8
Reporter for CNN, fact-checking politicians.
Washington DC


https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1144461457624403974.html


Daniel Dale
@ddale8
7 hours ago, 6 tweets, 1 min read

Biden's claim tonight that he only opposed federally mandated busing and did not generally oppose "busing in America" was a flagrant misrepresentation of his position in the '70s and '80s. He'd made crystal clear he opposed busing as a concept, as a matter of principle.

Biden's remarks on busing in the 1970s were generally very unequivocal -- "I oppose busing. It's an asinine concept." "A bankrupt concept." "Busing does not work." He expressed pride for making anti-busing sentiment "respectable" among liberals.


As recently re-reported by WaPo, Biden said things like this about busing: “What it says is, ‘In order for your child with curly black hair, brown eyes, and dark skin to be able to learn anything, he needs to sit next to my blond-haired, blue-eyed son.’ That’s racist!"

It wasn't just words: working with avowed racists, Biden pushed legislation to make it difficult to run busing programs. There *was* a caveat: he said he would support busing in cases where it'd been proven that a community had been intentionally segregated. But otherwise no.

Biden's campaign says that his position on busing would not have stopped the particular local busing program that Kamala Harris was a part of, since it was voluntarily adopted by the local community. In general, though: she was not mischaracterizing his opposition to busing. Biden campaign’s argument is that him saying in the ‘70s that he opposed busing was understood then to mean he simply opposed federal-mandated busing, not all busing. Like when GOP said under Obama they oppose health reform, was obvious it meant Obamacare, not all health reform.



here is the WaPo article referenced

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/bidens-tough-talk-on-1970s-school-desegregation-plan-could-get-new-scrutiny-in-todays-democratic-party/2019/03/07/9115583e-3eb2-11e9-a0d3-1210e58a94cf_story.html?utm_term=.fda4f19c0134



snip

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Celerity (Reply #35)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 12:55 AM

40. You do realize that 1975 was 44 years ago.

 

Don't you?
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Response to ucrdem (Reply #40)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 01:08 AM

44. the debate was 4 days ago, the fundraiser with the waxing nostalgic that kicked some of this off

 

was 2 weeks ago, the demand for Booker to apologise was the day after that

Joe brought all of it into the present

plus is adding new, non historical problematic statements to the mix (the NRA is not the enemy, the hoodie/poet laurate/not a gangbanger cringer, etc)

zero chance any of this particular shite would have come into the debate if he had better political skills and discipline

self-inflicted damage, just like 1988 and 2008

déjà vu

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Celerity (Reply #44)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 01:31 AM

53. The fundraiser was just a tie-in. She planned the busing gotcha long before.

 

And Biden called her on it. Of course the media which pays no attention to anything but their own clumsy narratives isn't about to explain that.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to ucrdem (Reply #53)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 05:28 AM

68. Biden has been telling his story about civility and working with creeps he doesn't agree with

 

for a long time.

It's part of his repertoire, so she called him on it.

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #40)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 05:54 AM

72. You do realize your candidate brought it

 

up by bragging about how he could work with anyone, citing the vile racist shithead Eastland as an example, right?
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to Celerity (Reply #35)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 06:26 AM

76. I agree with Biden

 

I have no guilt from anything that happened before I was alive.

I do want everyone in this Country to have equal rights. Forced busing took that equal right away for all. Those who could afford it decided they would not be coerced.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to True Blue American (Reply #76)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 08:02 AM

84. the underlying, substratal issues go FAR beyond a simple discussion of bussing

 

It goes far beyond just the education system.

The truly problematic stance was the fallback to a state's rights defence coupled with he old de jure versus de facto pea and shell game (and Biden DIRECTLY used this line/excuse/rationalisation back then in the 70's, the 80's, the 90's and onward, leading right up to the Thursday debate and other recent venues) that oh so many of the non-southern cities hid behind and used to justify their maintaining a systemic, widespread, endemic system of racial segregation and inequity.

Of course he was ok with a VOLUNTARY bussing programme, but god forbid a NON DE JURE segregated city (in other words a DE FACTO segregated city) refused to address its systemic racial inequity (and again, I am NOT just talking educational racial discrimination and disparate impact).




https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1978/08/24/senate-rejects-amendment-to-restrict-judges-authority-on-school-busing/6ba7d8ed-d746-46c5-8aa9-51e134ec89bc/?utm_term=.552468cca54f




https://books.google.se/books?id=ZFQE3bLDsS4C&printsec=frontcover&dq=Between+North+and+South:+Delaware,+Desegregation,+and+the+Myth+of+American&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjI3vygyYzjAhXyxcQBHYohDEIQ6AEIKjAA#v=onepage&q=Between%20North%20and%20South%3A%20Delaware%2C%20Desegregation%2C%20and%20the%20Myth%20of%20American&f=false




He supported a wide-reaching Jesse Helms anti-integration (not just bussing) amendment


How a Young Joe Biden Turned Liberals Against Integration

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/08/joe-biden-integration-school-busing-120968?o=1

snip

Sen. Jesse Helms, a Republican from North Carolina, was the first to strike. On September 17, 1975, when a larger education bill came up for debate, Helms offered a crippling anti-integration amendment. It would prevent the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare (HEW) from collecting any data about the race of students or teachers. In addition, HEW could not “require any school … to classify teachers or students by race.” Thus, HEW could not withhold funding from school districts that refused to integrate. “This is an antibusing amendment,” Helms explained. “This is an amendment to stop the current regiments of faceless, federal bureaucrats from destroying our schools.”

Biden rose to support Helms’s amendment. “I am sure it comes as a surprise to some of my colleagues … that a senator with a voting record such as mine stands up and supports [the Helms amendment].” Helms replied that he was happy to welcome Biden “to the ranks of the enlightened.” After the laughter died down, Biden launched an anti-busing screed. “I have become convinced that busing is a bankrupt concept.” The Senate should declare busing a failure, and focus instead on “whether or not we are really going to provide a better educational opportunity for blacks and minority groups in this country.” He praised Ed Brooke’s initiatives on housing, job opportunities and voting rights. In one breath, Biden seemed to reject busing in the North and the South, and claimed that he was committed to equal opportunity for African Americans.

A few other senators spoke briefly about the amendment, then Brooke sprung to action. The Helms amendment would eviscerate Title VI of the 1964 Civil Rights Act, Brooke said, which enabled HEW to cut off funding to school districts that refused to integrate. Brooke asserted that the federal government should attempt other integration remedies before resorting to busing. “But if compliance with the law cannot be achieved without busing, then busing must be one of the available desegregation remedies.” Brooke introduced a motion to table Helms’s amendment. Brooke’s motion passed, 48-43. Biden wouldn’t budge, and voted with Jesse Helms and the anti-bussers.

Brooke had fought this fight before, but he would face a more formidable adversary in Joe Biden. When a southern conservative like Helms led the anti-busing forces, Ed Brooke could still rally his troops. But it would be tougher to combat the anti-busing faction when its messenger was a young liberal from a border state.

Immediately after the Helms amendment was tabled, Biden proposed his own amendment to the $36 billion education bill, stipulating that none of those federal funds could be used by school systems “to assign teachers or students to schools … for reasons of race.” His amendment would prevent “some faceless bureaucrat” from “deciding that any child, black or white, should fit in some predetermined ratio.” He explained, “All the amendment says is that some bureaucrat sitting down there in HEW cannot tell a school district whether it is properly segregated or desegregated, or whether it should or should not have funds.” Finally, Biden called busing “an asinine policy.”

Brooke pointed out that the amendment would do much more than Biden claimed. Like the Helms gambit, it would still gut Title VI of the Civil Rights Act. But this time, a number of liberal senators that had opposed Helms’s amendment now supported Biden: Warren Magnuson and Scoop Jackson of Washington, where Seattle faced impending integration orders; and Thomas Eagleton and Stuart Symington of Missouri, where Kansas City confronted a similar fate. Mike Mansfield, the majority leader from Montana, also jumped on board. Watching his liberal colleagues defect, Republican Jacob Javits of New York mused, “They’re scared to death on busing.” The Senate approved Biden’s amendment. Biden had managed to turn a 48-43 loss for the anti-busing forces into a 50-43 victory.

In a seminal moment, the Senate thus turned against desegregation. The Senate had supported the 1964 Civil Rights Act, 1965 Voting Rights Act and 1968 Fair Housing Act. In the early 1970s, as President Richard Nixon and the House of Representatives encouraged the anti-busing movement, the Senate remained the last bastion for those who supported strong integration policies. Biden stormed that bastion, and it seemed to be falling. On September 23, another border-state Democrat moved against busing. Robert Byrd, the West Virginian who had since repudiated his Klan past, offered a perfecting amendment. It would prohibit busing beyond a student’s nearest school. It passed the Senate by a vote of 51-45.

snip




I must stress that the Helms amendment that Biden supported on multiple occasions went far beyond just bussing.

It would prevent the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare (HEW) from collecting any data about the race of students or teachers. In addition, HEW could not “require any school … to classify teachers or students by race.”


and Biden's own amendment was passed

Immediately after the Helms amendment was tabled, Biden proposed his own amendment to the $36 billion education bill, stipulating that none of those federal funds could be used by school systems “to assign teachers or students to schools … for reasons of race.” His amendment would prevent “some faceless bureaucrat” from “deciding that any child, black or white, should fit in some predetermined ratio.” He explained, “All the amendment says is that some bureaucrat sitting down there in HEW cannot tell a school district whether it is properly segregated or desegregated, or whether it should or should not have funds.” Finally, Biden called busing “an asinine policy.”

Brooke pointed out that the amendment would do much more than Biden claimed. Like the Helms gambit, it would still gut Title VI of the Civil Rights Act.


That denied federal funds for remedies for both de jure (Southern-style) AND de facto (Northern style) segregation.


Biden also was still supporting the Helms amendment being passed in the 1980's


https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/97-1981/s240


https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/bidens-tough-talk-on-1970s-school-desegregation-plan-could-get-new-scrutiny-in-todays-democratic-party/2019/03/07/9115583e-3eb2-11e9-a0d3-1210e58a94cf_story.html?utm_term=.d00ba40bd56c





finally

an article that debunks the tired old argument that bussing never worked, isnt working now, and never will:


‘Forced busing’ didn’t fail. Desegregation is the best way to improve our schools.

Racial achievement gaps were narrowest at the height of school integration.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/10/23/forced-busing-didnt-fail-desegregation-is-the-best-way-to-improve-our-schools/?utm_term=.754bfe081c9d
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Joe Biden

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #24)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 12:09 AM

29. He was against "forced busing," that happened only when local white controlled governments

 

dragged their feet desegregating schools and ensuring equal educational opportunities. It’s that simple. I’m disappointed in Biden.
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Response to Hoyt (Reply #29)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 12:16 AM

31. The point is that the busing program Kamala benefited from was local and voluntary

 

and that's what Joe supported. He didn't oppose busing and he didn't oppose desegregation. And the 1964 Civil Rights Act doesn't even mention busing.
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Response to ucrdem (Reply #31)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 06:11 AM

75. I suspect Black kids who were stuck in separate, but unequal, schools in the South feel differently.

 

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Joe Biden

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #24)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 05:13 AM

65. That's what he said but he mischaracterized his public statements in the 70's.

 

Then he was against busing for desegregation, period.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1144461457624403974.html?fbclid=IwAR2KXpRbKeYFdthn1mMaaIA1a7zRBOY7kOB6DRTiY8YQyc_6kFDx6Rm2298

Biden's claim tonight that he only opposed federally mandated busing and did not generally oppose "busing in America" was a flagrant misrepresentation of his position in the '70s and '80s. He'd made crystal clear he opposed busing as a concept, as a matter of principle.

Biden's remarks on busing in the 1970s were generally very unequivocal -- "I oppose busing. It's an asinine concept." "A bankrupt concept." "Busing does not work." He expressed pride for making anti-busing sentiment "respectable" among liberals.

As recently re-reported by WaPo, Biden said things like this about busing: “What it says is, ‘In order for your child with curly black hair, brown eyes, and dark skin to be able to learn anything, he needs to sit next to my blond-haired, blue-eyed son.’ That’s racist!"

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Joe Biden

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #22)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 11:46 PM

25. She was angry and uppity

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #25)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 12:26 AM

34. you forgot plotting, conniving, calculating, opportunistic, sneaky, etc

 

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Joe Biden

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Response to Celerity (Reply #34)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 05:51 AM

71. Cold and calculating.

 

I read here that she “prepared for the debate”! What sort of person does that?
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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #71)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 05:57 AM

73. apparently most all who do not have a name that starts with Joe

 

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #25)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 05:50 AM

70. Exactly

 

Oh and he is a really lousy candidate.
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Response to MadDAsHell (Original post)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 12:30 AM

36. What if we

 

threw in $2.5 million? And are you sure it was only a 1% bump?
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Response to MadDAsHell (Original post)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 12:41 AM

37. If the stupid like what's in this thread continues....

 

We'll lose!

Get it to fucking gather people.

VOTE BLUE and stop being fucking nitpicky.
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Response to MadDAsHell (Original post)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 12:57 AM

41. no one I know is even talking about racism among dems

 

vast majority of dem primary voters who like Biden also like Harris. The debate changed nothing. Literally, no one, dems or rethugs believe biden is racist. It’s quite the opposite.
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Response to MadDAsHell (Original post)


Response to Post removed (Reply #62)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 04:47 AM

63. I once read a post, on Twitter, which referred to him as ".45"

 

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Response to MadDAsHell (Original post)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 05:11 AM

64. And the Orange Horror is so much worse

 

So much worse that it is silly to say such a thing about any Democrat.
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Response to MadDAsHell (Original post)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 05:48 AM

69. How about 5%?

 

What amount of ‘bump’ would make it ok?

Oh and who called who a racist?
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Response to MadDAsHell (Original post)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 05:59 AM

74. I missed the call...

 

… jut guessing this is on the Harris - Biden confrontation? She made it clear she did not think he was a racist. I believe this is because, when it started, he denied he was a racist. Biden denied something that he wasn't accused of.... he's a smart man and he knew the tactic. At the time, I thought it was probably wise to take the "I am not a racist" route. It changes the topic to one Biden can win, from the topic he might not win... nobody thinks he's a racist... the original topic, on segregation, was not a clear winner for Biden. But, Harris came back to the original topic of segregation... advantage Harris. I was wrong in how Biden handled it... he should have stuck to and addressed the segregation stuff...

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Response to MadDAsHell (Original post)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 07:27 AM

77. K&R

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to MadDAsHell (Original post)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 07:49 AM

80. Link?

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to MadDAsHell (Original post)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 08:01 AM

83. Any candidate that insinuates another Democratic candidate is racist...

 

I'm gonna put in a cabinet called "Never gonna love ya'." Once you go into the cabinet, you can't get out. It automatically locks, and I don't have a key. I can't vote for anyone in the lock box, except under duress.

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to MadDAsHell (Original post)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 01:15 PM

91. Who did that?

 

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Response to MadDAsHell (Original post)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 03:40 PM

94. Being a democrat doesn't mean you aren't working under racist assumptions

 

I think that was Kamala's point. You may not have hate for someone of color, but it doesn't mean the country's institutional racism isn't working at all levels in your life.

Have you seen the replies in the busing thread? I am disgusted. Things like, we can't win like this (read white people). People buy houses to get access to these segregated schools. Or, this is handing the election to trump voters... etc. etc.

I see the virtue signaling that democrats do. The wink and nudge of someone like Pete does. Let's make sure the white people aren't uncomfortable because they'll vote for trump.

I don't want to live in this country if my first thought is to make sure we don't move forward and acknowledge that being raised in this country means that we are influenced by racism. Let's not pretend anymore that MLK killed racism. It's still here. And the things I have seen among people I considered liberals, ugh. I am tired. Let's face it, let's call it out.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to MadDAsHell (Original post)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 04:53 PM

95. ME TOO

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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