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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!

Sun Sep 1, 2019, 08:16 PM

 

Must-Read thread by Michael Grunwald on how important Biden was to Obama's accomplishments

Grunwald (Time/Politico/Washington Post/Boston Globe) wrote the 17 tweets in this thread in response to Twitter criticism of Biden earlier this year for what he said about working with Republicans.

I ran across it searching for more info on Twitter about how Biden was able to get the stimulus bill through the Senate by convincing three Republicans to vote for it.

Imagine for a moment what might have happened if that bill hadn't passed...

Anyway, I also saw this thread recommended by Obama speechwriter Jon Favreau:





This is very good context, some of which I’d forgotten.


If Obama's speechwriter had forgotten some of what happened then, I'm guessing most DUers aren't that familiar with it, either.

I hope you'll read this, and that you'll keep it in mind the next time you see Biden attacked for being "too willing to work with Republicans."

If Grunwald is right, we wouldn't have had the stimulus bill, or the ACA, or even Obama's second term, without Biden's ability to get Republicans to change their minds.


Grunwald's thread starts here:





Threadreader page here:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1121515802006573059.html



I notice the "stupid @JoeBiden believes in compromise with Republicans" theme is taking off in Twitterland. I spent a lot of time with Biden for my stimulus book so allow me to interject a bit of nuance. 1

First of all, it's basically true. As a general matter Biden believes in compromise. It's worth noting that most Democratic primary voters, unlike most Republican primary voters, tell pollsters they believe in compromise. But yes, Biden likes dealmaking. 2

Even more damning to some Democrats, Biden believes in bipartisan compromise. Again, most Democrats agree with him. But he does love bragging about his good working relationships with Republicans, and not just moderate Republicans. 3

Now let's talk about the Obama era. The prevailing narrative is that DC Republicans were hellbent on destroying Obama's presidency, uninterested in any compromise. I know this because my reporting on GOP plotting in late 08/early 09 helped create that narrative. 4

Here's my Party of No piece on the R's plotting to oppose everything Obama did before he even took office. http://swampland.time.com/2012/08/23/the-party-of-no-new-details-on-the-gop-plot-to-obstruct-obama/
Here's the book it's adapted from, which is still available for purchase! https://www.amazon.com/New-Deal-Hidden-Story-Change/dp/1451642334/ 5

So...why was Uncle Joe such a doddering sucker? Why did he think the R's would do anything to help Obama? Actually, he wasn't, and he didn't. 6

In fact, Biden told me that before Obama took office, seven GOP senators told him they weren't going to be able to help him on anything. I confirmed Bob Bennett & Arlen Specter. John McCain & Lindsey Graham were clearly back-channeling too. 7

"I promise you--and the president agreed with me--I never thought we were going to get Republican support," Biden told me. He would've loved to do big bipartisan legislation but he knew that most of the time the best the WH could hope for was picking off a few R's. 8

On the stimulus, for example, the WH needed to pick off three Republican senators if they wanted to have an economic recovery bill. So Biden basically spent January and February 09 stalking Susan Collins, Arlen Specter & Olympia Snowe. He begged and he bribed. And it worked. 9

Biden was also the chief lobbyist pestering Specter to flip parties. That eventually worked, too, and if it hadn't the Democrats wouldn't have had 60 votes for Obamacare. 10

And after the GOP landslide in 2010, Biden negotiated a deal with Mitch McConnell that probably saved Obama's reelection. It got $300B in new stimulus, including a payroll tax cut, and allowed D's to repeal Don't Ask Don't Tell & ratify the START treaty before R's took over. 11

The deal did extend the Bush tax cuts for the rich for another two years; a follow-up deal after Obama's reelection killed most of them. There was also an estate tax cut the WH hated. But after a GOP landslide, it was a surprisingly good deal. 12

Now these were not perfect deals. And many liberals will never forgive Obama and Biden for pursuing a "Grand Bargain" that never ended up happening. Fair enough. Reasonable people can disagree about the substance of any deal, and even about what was politically possible. 13

I'm not making a case for Biden's candidacy. And I've said before I find his confidence in his skills as a campaigner rather baffling.




14

What I'm saying is this: The notion that Biden was or is naive about the obstructionism of the modern Republican Party is silly. And the notion that good relationships with obstructionist Republicans are totally useless is also silly. 15

There's a deeper point here about the misreading of the Obama era. Liberals have convinced themselves that Obama somehow gave away the store to Republicans, and that his progressive stuff could have been much more progressive, but I'll save that discussion for another day. 16

This is about Biden. He says goofy things, and sometimes he does goofy things, but there's no need to create a straw-man Biden. He does like compromise. He does get along with some Republicans. And it was useful for Obama that both of those things were true. END
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Reply Must-Read thread by Michael Grunwald on how important Biden was to Obama's accomplishments (Original post)
highplainsdem Sep 2019 OP
aikoaiko Sep 2019 #1
Skya Rhen Sep 2019 #2
WheelWalker Sep 2019 #4
calimary Sep 2019 #14
highplainsdem Sep 2019 #23
emmaverybo Sep 2019 #3
highplainsdem Sep 2019 #24
Gothmog Sep 2019 #5
highplainsdem Sep 2019 #27
Duppers Sep 2019 #6
NYMinute Sep 2019 #7
sharedvalues Sep 2019 #8
highplainsdem Sep 2019 #10
Perseus Sep 2019 #9
highplainsdem Sep 2019 #11
Skya Rhen Sep 2019 #12
Perseus Sep 2019 #13
highplainsdem Sep 2019 #15
Cha Sep 2019 #18
Cha Sep 2019 #17
Perseus Sep 2019 #21
highplainsdem Sep 2019 #22
Cha Sep 2019 #26
Cha Sep 2019 #16
Hekate Sep 2019 #19
Cha Sep 2019 #20
Gothmog Sep 2019 #25
Cha Sep 2019 #29
Cha Sep 2019 #28
Gothmog Sep 2019 #30
Scurrilous Sep 2019 #31

Response to highplainsdem (Original post)

Sun Sep 1, 2019, 08:52 PM

1. Yeah, we know he likes to compromise with Republicans.

 


That was a Senate 10 years ago. Joe had the same directive in 2013 on gun control and couldn't get a single thing through the senate. The Joe Biden-type of senate doesn't exist anymore.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to highplainsdem (Original post)

Sun Sep 1, 2019, 08:58 PM

2. Wow - this is a great read! Funny how so many in twitter world believe that Joe is naive when it

 

Last edited Mon Sep 2, 2019, 10:09 AM - Edit history (1)

comes to repub obstruction. He was there and knows a million times more, than them, exactly how the repubs are.

I have always understood that he is using strategic flattery, for the most part, in order to garner the support that he will need from them in order to get bills passed when he is President.

Joe knows what he is doing. As the author rightly says, we wouldn't have had the stimulus bill, or the ACA, or even Obama's second term, without Biden's ability to get Republicans to change their minds.

Joe will get things done again. He has a proven track record of doing just that...

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Skya Rhen (Reply #2)

Sun Sep 1, 2019, 09:25 PM

4. "Joe knows what he is doing. *** Joe will get things done again." Truth.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Skya Rhen (Reply #2)

Mon Sep 2, 2019, 12:02 AM

14. Whatever beats trump.

 

Biden's a good guy. I could easily get behind him. Loved him during the Obama years. And I LOVED how he laughed at both Sarah Palin and Paul Ryan, in turn, during Vice Presidential debates. Just sliced each of them right off their high horses and then cut them into itty bitty pieces! What a delight that was to witness. Each of those idiots stood about two inches tall by the time he got though chuckling at them.

A thing of beauty!

And if he's the nominee, I will be counting the minutes til I can mark my ballot for him, and I will work like crazy to help him take the White House.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Skya Rhen (Reply #2)

Mon Sep 2, 2019, 10:48 AM

23. Exactly. Joe know what he's doing, and he'll get things done again.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to highplainsdem (Original post)

Sun Sep 1, 2019, 09:02 PM

3. Definitely a must-read. Its thesis is corroborated in other sources, but here we have a for-the-

 

record all in one place with good detail.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to emmaverybo (Reply #3)

Mon Sep 2, 2019, 12:00 PM

24. Thanks, emmaverybo! I thought it was a great summary!

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to highplainsdem (Original post)

Sun Sep 1, 2019, 09:28 PM

5. Thank you for posting this

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #5)

Mon Sep 2, 2019, 10:43 PM

27. You're welcome!

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to highplainsdem (Original post)

Sun Sep 1, 2019, 09:46 PM

6. K & R

 

Thank you!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to highplainsdem (Original post)

Sun Sep 1, 2019, 09:47 PM

7. K&R nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to highplainsdem (Original post)

Sun Sep 1, 2019, 10:35 PM

8. No. Incorrect assumption.

 

Liberals do not think that “Obama gave away the store to Republicans.”

Liberals think Obama made a grave error by abolishing OFA (folding it into the DNC) in 2009 and again in 2013, and so thus reducing the power of grassroots persuasion that Obama was SO GOOD at.

Imagine if Obama had used his activated grassroots network from 2008 to push for Obamacare and take the argument to the people in the states?

https://newrepublic.com/article/140245/obamas-lost-army-inside-fall-grassroots-machine

OBAMA’S LOST ARMY
He built a grassroots machine of two million supporters eager to fight for change. Then he let it die. This is the untold story of Obama’s biggest mistake—and how it paved the way for Trump.
By MICAH L. SIFRY
February 9, 2017
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to sharedvalues (Reply #8)

Sun Sep 1, 2019, 11:25 PM

10. Wow, I must have imagined all the complaints from progressives about "buyer's remorse," about

 

"disappointment" that Obama had "compromised too much."

Apparently Grunwald imagined them, too.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to highplainsdem (Original post)

Sun Sep 1, 2019, 11:19 PM

9. I get it now, Obama was just a pretty face on the presidency, Biden did everything

 

"Liberals have convinced themselves that Obama somehow gave away the store to Republicans", no it was not Obama, it was Biden who made the negotiations with "Mitch".

"He does like compromise. He does get along with some Republicans." --- Correct! that is part of the problem, he likes to compromise because he likes to be liked, and he thinks he gets along with the republicans, like "Mitch", but republicans could not care anything about Biden, it is a false perception that Biden has. Republicans are not interested in liking anyone, not even their own, this fantasy that Biden can negotiate with republicans has to end, he can't, and he proved it when he was VP.

As I have said it before, one of my worries is this false perception Biden has that he can negotiate with republicans, he can't. CAn anyone please come up with instances when he has and he came ahead please? I would love to be wrong about this.

"The deal did extend the Bush tax cuts for the rich for another two years" - Yes, this was a horrible deal. And the stimulus was already coming.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Perseus (Reply #9)

Sun Sep 1, 2019, 11:26 PM

11. I'll take Grunwald's explanation of what happened over yours.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Perseus (Reply #9)

Sun Sep 1, 2019, 11:33 PM

12. Biden negotiated with repubs to secure 3 votes to save the economy from spiralling into a Great

 

Depression... and that's no big deal? Really?

You said the stimulus was already coming - what does that even mean? There would have been NO stimulus without the 3 repub votes that Biden secured. Fact.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Skya Rhen (Reply #12)

Sun Sep 1, 2019, 11:47 PM

13. The stimulus was conceived during Bush's last year, Obama did change some of the negotiation points

 

But it had already been decided.

"was already coming - what does that even mean?" Just that, the resolution had been made before Obama took the presidency. It had already been decided in 2008, enacted in 2009.

"Because work on the bills started before President Obama officially took office on January 20, 2009, top aides to President-Elect Obama held multiple meetings with committee leaders and staffers."

[link:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Recovery_and_Reinvestment_Act_of_2009|

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Perseus (Reply #13)

Mon Sep 2, 2019, 12:09 AM

15. The bill had no Republican support in the House, but didn't need them for passage. Republican votes

 

WERE needed in the Senate, and Biden got three Republicans to join Democrats in voting for the bill.

Remember that McConnell was determined that Obama would fail.


http://swampland.time.com/2012/08/23/the-party-of-no-new-details-on-the-gop-plot-to-obstruct-obama/


• Vice President Biden told me that during the transition, he was warned not to expect any bipartisan cooperation on major votes. “I spoke to seven different Republican Senators who said, ‘Joe, I’m not going to be able to help you on anything,’ ” he recalled. His informants said McConnell had demanded unified resistance. “The way it was characterized to me was, ‘For the next two years, we can’t let you succeed in anything. That’s our ticket to coming back,’ ” Biden said. The Vice President said he hasn’t even told Obama who his sources were, but Bob Bennett of Utah and Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania both confirmed they had conversations with Biden along those lines.

“So I promise you — and the President agreed with me — I never thought we were going to get Republican support,” Biden said.



One of those three Republicans was Arlen Specter, and Biden did more than anyone else to convince Specter to switch parties soon after the stimulus vote:

https://www.politico.com/story/2009/04/biden-worked-on-specter-100-days-021824

If Specter hadn't switched, Democrats would not have had enough votes to pass the Affordable Care Act.


So, without Biden's ability to get that support from Republicans, with one Republican even switching parties, there would have been no stimulus, and no ACA.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to highplainsdem (Reply #15)

Mon Sep 2, 2019, 01:53 AM

18. Thank you for explaining that

 

to him so patiently and diligently!

I didn't remember that!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Perseus (Reply #9)

Mon Sep 2, 2019, 01:48 AM

17. No.. Sorry, you do Not "get it".

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Cha (Reply #17)

Mon Sep 2, 2019, 08:52 AM

21. Well, I do, we have a section of the Democratic party that has become fanatics of Biden

 

Won't hear anything that remotely points out his deficiencies, and only hears what is positive to him.

So much for vetting our candidates.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Perseus (Reply #21)

Mon Sep 2, 2019, 09:58 AM

22. None of the Biden supporters I know are "fanatics of Biden," and neither am I. That's a

 

despicable way to characterize supporters of Biden.

Especially when you're weighing in here just to dispute Biden's role in getting those bills passed.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Perseus (Reply #21)

Mon Sep 2, 2019, 03:54 PM

26. No you don't.. stop insulting Biden Supporters

 

this is about Biden's role in the Obama Admin.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to highplainsdem (Original post)

Mon Sep 2, 2019, 01:47 AM

16. It's obvious Biden wasn't kidding

 

when he talked about convincing repubs to help pass a bill. He's had that experience!


I ran across it searching for more info on Twitter about how Biden was able to get the stimulus bill through the Senate by convincing three Republicans to vote for it.

Thank you!


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to highplainsdem (Original post)

Mon Sep 2, 2019, 03:46 AM

19. Bookmarking with thanks

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Hekate (Reply #19)

Mon Sep 2, 2019, 05:04 AM

20. Aloha, Hekate.. here's a book by Michael Grunwald

 

on the Recovery Act and "..Joe Biden had a lot to do with that.."


I think it's very exciting!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to highplainsdem (Original post)

Mon Sep 2, 2019, 01:02 PM

25. I'm still humbled by the immense trust and faith you placed in President Obama and me.

 


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #25)

Mon Sep 23, 2019, 04:42 AM

29. Thank you, Goth!

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to highplainsdem (Original post)

Fri Sep 20, 2019, 01:59 AM

28. Very Exciting!

 


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to highplainsdem (Original post)

Mon Sep 23, 2019, 07:40 PM

30. I was proud to serve alongside President Obama every day

 


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to highplainsdem (Original post)

Mon Sep 23, 2019, 09:31 PM

31. K&R

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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