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Undecided 37%
Elizabeth Warren19%
Joe Biden14%
Kamala Harris9%
Bernie Sanders8%

Fri Feb 22, 2019, 09:44 AM

 

Harris: "I am not a democratic socialist"

A sensible move IMO, given half the electorate don’t have a clue what socialism means. Kamala then gives a rather bland statement of textbook liberalism.

California's Kamala Harris distances herself from Bernie Sanders: "I am not a democratic socialist"

Sen. Kamala Harris, D-Calif., on Monday distanced herself from democratic socialism when asked by a reporter if she would be able to compete in the Democratic Party's presidential primary in 2020 in states like New Hampshire, where progressives including Sens. Bernie Sanders of Vermont and Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts have maintained a following. ...

Well, the people of New Hampshire will tell me what's required to compete in New Hampshire, but I will tell you I am not a democratic socialist," Harris told reporters during a campaign stop. Sanders' label has been embraced by some high-profile Democrats, including Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, D-N.Y.

"I believe that what voters do want is – they want to know that whoever is going to lead understands that in America today not everyone has an equal opportunity and access to a path to success," Harris told reporters. "And that that has been building up over decades, and we've got to correct course."

"When we have an America where almost half of American families cannot afford a $400 emergency, we know that we've got to do some course correction," she added. "When we have an America where 99 percent of the counties in the United States of America – if you're a minimum wage worker working full time – you can't afford market rate for a one bedroom apartment, we need to course correct."


https://www.salon.com/2019/02/19/kamala-harris-distances-herself-from-bernie-sanders-i-am-not-a-democratic-socialist/
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Reply Harris: "I am not a democratic socialist" (Original post)
crazytown Feb 2019 OP
empedocles Feb 2019 #1
crazytown Feb 2019 #3
empedocles Feb 2019 #31
crazytown Feb 2019 #35
empedocles Feb 2019 #39
elleng Feb 2019 #54
ProudMNDemocrat Feb 2019 #2
crazytown Feb 2019 #6
SidDithers Feb 2019 #10
brooklynite Feb 2019 #12
still_one Feb 2019 #26
Docreed2003 Feb 2019 #4
mia Feb 2019 #5
crazytown Feb 2019 #8
SidDithers Feb 2019 #11
honest.abe Feb 2019 #16
crazytown Feb 2019 #19
CrossingTheRubicon Feb 2019 #29
honest.abe Feb 2019 #32
brush Feb 2019 #57
brush Feb 2019 #55
honest.abe Feb 2019 #7
DBoon Feb 2019 #9
shanny Feb 2019 #13
honest.abe Feb 2019 #14
crazytown Feb 2019 #17
honest.abe Feb 2019 #18
shanny Feb 2019 #21
honest.abe Feb 2019 #27
shanny Feb 2019 #46
honest.abe Feb 2019 #49
crazytown Feb 2019 #15
shanny Feb 2019 #22
crazytown Feb 2019 #23
m-lekktor Feb 2019 #53
CrossingTheRubicon Feb 2019 #20
crazytown Feb 2019 #25
empedocles Feb 2019 #34
Garrett78 Feb 2019 #24
honest.abe Feb 2019 #28
CrossingTheRubicon Feb 2019 #30
Garrett78 Feb 2019 #33
CrossingTheRubicon Feb 2019 #37
TCJ70 Feb 2019 #36
crazytown Feb 2019 #38
TCJ70 Feb 2019 #40
crazytown Feb 2019 #41
rusty fender Feb 2019 #48
Awsi Dooger Feb 2019 #42
Name removed Feb 2019 #43
crazytown Feb 2019 #44
Name removed Feb 2019 #45
crazytown Feb 2019 #47
peggysue2 Feb 2019 #50
CentralMass Feb 2019 #51
m-lekktor Feb 2019 #52
BannonsLiver Feb 2019 #56
Blue_Tires Feb 2019 #58
crazytown Feb 2019 #59

Response to crazytown (Original post)

Fri Feb 22, 2019, 09:52 AM

1. Harris is recognizing a problem.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to empedocles (Reply #1)

Fri Feb 22, 2019, 10:01 AM

3. Yes she is

 

But IMO, inequality of wealth, opportunity and influence are best takeled at the top as well as the bottom. I think this is the difference between progressives and liberals. Breaking up the banks in 2009 into savings and investment institutions, would have been a textbook progressive remedy.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to crazytown (Reply #3)

Fri Feb 22, 2019, 12:29 PM

31. Lot of important good things to be talked about. However, I go back to the LBJ lesson.

 

LBJ got the incredibly important Medicare, Medicaid, civil right, panolopy of great things done! No President before or after LBJ could get done what LBJ achieved. At the time, LBJ was aggressively, 'righteously', dogmatically attacked by various Dem factions, which hurt LBJ's effort, mobilizing rw resistance.

A continuuing problem to the present day. Speaker Pelosi has been hit with somewhat similiar hurts, with no Senate or WH to go to.

Dems need a broad appeal to win commanding power to actually accomplish doable things, getting beyond righteous, vote costing proclamations, etc.


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to empedocles (Reply #31)

Fri Feb 22, 2019, 12:38 PM

35. I don't think Kamala lacks courage

 

At this stage she is laying the foundations of her campaign - the LIFT taxation act for example.

LBJ - the guy was an asshole who got things done. I don’t think anyone else could have pushed the Voting Rights legislation through. Yes it provoked a fierce backlash, and changed the Democratic Party forever, but without Vietnam LBJ would have won a second term in 1968.

1968 - what a disaster that year was.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to crazytown (Reply #35)

Fri Feb 22, 2019, 12:53 PM

39. Courage is not the issue. We need all the support we can get, to to most effectively first

 

get rid of trump, and try to get good, [though not sufficient for all Dems], reforms going. These foundation efforts aimed at Dem primary voters, are away from, and alienating to broader publics - to 'conservative' advantage now and in the future.

This kind of thing 'happened' in 2016, December 2016, continue now, and will continue, - weakening Dem unity and effectieness.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to empedocles (Reply #39)

Fri Feb 22, 2019, 03:28 PM

54. Yes

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to crazytown (Original post)

Fri Feb 22, 2019, 09:54 AM

2. All the candidates need to specify what they are for......

 


If a candidate says.......

"I am for paid Public Education from Pre-K through Public College or University"

"I am for Universal Health Care or Medicare for All"

"I am for a higher Marginal Tax rate for the Millionaire /Billionaire class"

"I am for a $15 Minimum Wage"

"I am for expanding g Social Security and Medicare"

"I am for Green jobs and Energy"

You may be a Democratic Socialist. They must say what they are for, rather than what they are against and be specific. Because what I just listed is where I stand and my vote will go to the candidate who reflects my values.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to ProudMNDemocrat (Reply #2)

Fri Feb 22, 2019, 10:12 AM

6. Only Universal Health Care and expanding Social Security are socialist.

 

In both cases they displace capitalist institutions - private health insurance and private superannuation.

The others - market regulation, taxes, subsidies and incentives are social democracy - liberal/progressive policy. To the extent public education does not displace private education, it is not speaking ‘socialist’.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to ProudMNDemocrat (Reply #2)

Fri Feb 22, 2019, 10:23 AM

10. That's social democracy, not democratic socialism...nt

 

Sid
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Kamala Harris

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Response to ProudMNDemocrat (Reply #2)

Fri Feb 22, 2019, 10:27 AM

12. You may also be a social comunitariean...

 

What's a social comunitariean? Doesn't matter; I made the term up myself. If self-described "Democratic Socialists" can redefine words, so can I.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Pete Buttigieg

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #12)

Fri Feb 22, 2019, 11:57 AM

26. LOL. I have been considering subscribing to antidisestablishmentarianism, but then again I have

 

Hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia so it definitely would not suit me



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to crazytown (Original post)

Fri Feb 22, 2019, 10:06 AM

4. I think she's making smart moves here

 

She is clearly defining who she is and what she stands for, rather than allowing others to define who she is as a candidate.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Beto O'Rourke

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Response to crazytown (Original post)

Fri Feb 22, 2019, 10:09 AM

5. Thank you, Kamala Harris.

 

Neither am I. We non-Democratic Socialists need to stick together.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to mia (Reply #5)

Fri Feb 22, 2019, 10:20 AM

8. Social Democrats

 

That’s the European term for progressive parties who would seek to regulate/direct the market and use the tax system to provide a fair go for all. Socialism is literally the nationalisation of private business.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to crazytown (Reply #8)

Fri Feb 22, 2019, 10:23 AM

11. +1...nt

 

Sid
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Kamala Harris

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Response to crazytown (Reply #8)

Fri Feb 22, 2019, 10:39 AM

16. For some reason Bernie and his gang dont want to be called "Social Democrats".

 

It seems to be a more correct term for what they are. I guess they just dont like that "Democrat" label. Like its a disease or something.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Kamala Harris

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Response to honest.abe (Reply #16)

Fri Feb 22, 2019, 10:45 AM

19. I think they want to be martyrs

 

crushed by greedy capitalist roaders rather than by any fault of their own.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to honest.abe (Reply #16)

Fri Feb 22, 2019, 12:21 PM

29. Perhaps we should believe Bernie when he says he's a Democratic Socialist?

 

I understand the difference between the ideology of "Social Democrats" and "Democratic Socialists" and I assume Bernie Sanders does as well.

When he tells me he's a Democratic Socialist, I believe him. That ideology matches his record. I don't believe he is a Social Democrat, or he'd say so.

I give the man the respect of taking him at his word.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to CrossingTheRubicon (Reply #29)

Fri Feb 22, 2019, 12:30 PM

32. Not so sure he does understand.

 

Here is what he has said:

Democratic socialism, Sanders said, is not tied to any Marxist belief or the abolition of capitalism. “I don’t believe government should own the means of production, but I do believe that the middle class and the working families who produce the wealth of America deserve a fair deal,” he said.


http://time.com/4121126/bernie-sanders-democratic-socialism/

That doesn't sound like the textbook definition of Democratic Socialism.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Kamala Harris

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Response to honest.abe (Reply #32)

Fri Feb 22, 2019, 03:47 PM

57. Yep, doesn't seem like he understands the difference.

 

Bernie and AOC have maybe overlooked that the term socialism is still a pejorative to many in this country who don't know the difference between socialism, fascism, nazism (national socialism in Hitlers 3rd Reich) and communism, a form of socialism.

IMO it's a miscalculation to label yourself with a term that represents a negative to many who you want to vote for you.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to mia (Reply #5)

Fri Feb 22, 2019, 03:37 PM

55. Yep. I'm a Democrat too.

 

Democrats like FDR and LBJ have gotten the most important pieces of social legislation passed into law in the since Lincoln.

That's why I'm a Democrat. Social legislation can be done within the frame work of Congress if we are smart enough and stay together.

Avoiding defining oneself with little understood terms by voters like democratic socialist, especially in this country where socialism is a pejorative to many, unlike in Europe where Social Democrats are common.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to crazytown (Original post)

Fri Feb 22, 2019, 10:13 AM

7. That might make a good bumper sticker!

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Kamala Harris

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Response to crazytown (Original post)

Fri Feb 22, 2019, 10:22 AM

9. and any honest democratic socialist would agree

 

Norman Thomas, when asked if FDR was carrying out the Socialist Party's agenda, said "Yes, in a coffin"
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to crazytown (Original post)

Fri Feb 22, 2019, 10:30 AM

13. Too bad. I think we need one.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to shanny (Reply #13)

Fri Feb 22, 2019, 10:36 AM

14. Are you for abolishing capitalism?

 

I believe that is what a true socialist would advocate for.

socialism
a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Kamala Harris

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Response to honest.abe (Reply #14)

Fri Feb 22, 2019, 10:41 AM

17. Fix banking by regulation (liberal) breaking them up (progressive)

 

or nationalization (socialist)

as I said, most of the electorate hasn’t got a clue what socialism means.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to crazytown (Reply #17)

Fri Feb 22, 2019, 10:43 AM

18. Exactly.

 

Good way to explain it.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Kamala Harris

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Response to honest.abe (Reply #14)

Fri Feb 22, 2019, 11:10 AM

21. maybe that is why I said we needed a democratic socialist

 

but thanks for playing
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to shanny (Reply #21)

Fri Feb 22, 2019, 12:01 PM

27. FYI.. pushing to abolish capitalism will not play well to most voters...

 

aside from the fact it wont work to solve our problems.

Im done playing.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Kamala Harris

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Response to honest.abe (Reply #27)

Fri Feb 22, 2019, 02:10 PM

46. fyi dude no one is advocating that

 

tilting at straw windmills looks pretty silly too

thanks for playing
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to shanny (Reply #46)

Fri Feb 22, 2019, 02:29 PM

49. Sure dudette.. whatever you say.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Kamala Harris

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Response to shanny (Reply #13)

Fri Feb 22, 2019, 10:37 AM

15. Please explain

 

What sectors of the economy should be socialised? For example, would you prefer to restore Glass/Stegal and break up the banks so none are too big to fail (a progressive remedy) or nationalise them (socialism)?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to crazytown (Reply #15)

Fri Feb 22, 2019, 11:13 AM

22. maybe there was a reason I specified that a democratic socialist was needed

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to shanny (Reply #22)

Fri Feb 22, 2019, 11:20 AM

23. To paint a target on their backs

 

for a cause they don’t espouse? Sorry, but most people I know confuse progressive policy - putatively high taxation to break the influence of the wealthy, with socialism. They are different animals. Progressives who paint themselves as socialists would seem to get a lot of pain for little gain
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to shanny (Reply #13)

Fri Feb 22, 2019, 02:54 PM

53. Yep, we do. Some people are stuck in the '90's. nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to crazytown (Original post)

Fri Feb 22, 2019, 10:51 AM

20. I'm more and more convinced every day that most people have no clue what Democratic Socialism means

 

Democratic Socialism should not be confused with Social Democracy.

From Wikipedia:

Democratic Socialists are committed to systemic transformation of the economy from capitalism to socialism, whereas social democracy is supportive of reforms to capitalism.

In contrast to Social Democrats, Democratic Socialists believe that reforms aimed at addressing social inequalities and state interventions aimed at suppressing the economic contradictions of capitalism will only see them emerge elsewhere in a different guise.

As Socialists, Democratic Socialists believe that the systemic issues of capitalism can only be solved by replacing the capitalist system with a socialist system—i.e. by replacing private ownership with social ownership of the means of production


The liberal democracies that some Democratic Socialists attempt to point to as success stories all have advanced capitalist economies. Not one has a socialist economy. Not one of these nations is an example of "Democratic Socialism."

Venezuela under Chavez/Maduro is an example of Democratic Socialism. Both leaders embrace(d) the Democratic Socialist ideology and the DSA backs the regime even as it plunges into chaos and tyranny.

Liberal Democrats are wise to emphatically reject very non-liberal and non-progressive ideologies.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to CrossingTheRubicon (Reply #20)

Fri Feb 22, 2019, 11:29 AM

25. FDR: 'I am a believer in the Capitalistic System'

 

Grilled Millionaires



For those who might sneer at FDR’s professions of peace, in 1941 the Federal Government was still trying to negotiate with Japan while it’s Axis ally had overrun almost all of Europe.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to crazytown (Reply #25)

Fri Feb 22, 2019, 12:35 PM

34. History has lessons to teach. I think we agree.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to crazytown (Original post)

Fri Feb 22, 2019, 11:25 AM

24. The Democratic Socialists don't seem to have a clue what socialism means.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Kamala Harris

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Response to Garrett78 (Reply #24)

Fri Feb 22, 2019, 12:02 PM

28. Clearly they dont.

 

Probably needs to be thoroughly discussed during the debates.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Kamala Harris

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Response to Garrett78 (Reply #24)

Fri Feb 22, 2019, 12:26 PM

30. Or they obfuscate, knowing that ending private property would not be popular.

 

Instead, Democratic Socialists point to liberal democracies with advanced capitalist economies "as if" they were
"Democratic Socialist" states when nothing could be further from the truth.

Democratic Socialism is not a liberal ideology.

Kudos to Kamala Harris for speaking plainly!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to CrossingTheRubicon (Reply #30)

Fri Feb 22, 2019, 12:33 PM

33. Yeah, they hold up the Nordic Model as a beacon of socialism.

 

Or they talk about anything that's publicly funded as being an example of socialism.

It's rather embarrassing.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Kamala Harris

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Response to Garrett78 (Reply #33)

Fri Feb 22, 2019, 12:44 PM

37. Remember when it was only a "right-wing talking point" to falsely call any social welfare program..

 

or infrastructure investment "socialist?"

It is embarrassing that Democratic Socialists have picked up the same meme as the far-right.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to crazytown (Original post)

Fri Feb 22, 2019, 12:42 PM

36. I don't care what someone labels themselves as...what they're for is what matters. n/t

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to TCJ70 (Reply #36)

Fri Feb 22, 2019, 12:51 PM

38. Socialist paints a target on your back.

 

Doing so without a reason is crazy.

Trump called Sanders ‘The Communist’

“I never thought we’d see the day in this country when a Communist ... is the leading Democrat”

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to crazytown (Reply #38)

Fri Feb 22, 2019, 12:56 PM

40. Your video is exactly why I don't care...

 

...the Republicans are going to label all our candidates "Open Borders Socialists [Insert whatever other stupid name here]" this time around and it just doesn't matter. Look past labels to stances. Call yourself whatever you want.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Elizabeth Warren

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Response to TCJ70 (Reply #40)

Fri Feb 22, 2019, 12:58 PM

41. Socialist is dumb.

 

You’re welcome to it.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Elizabeth Warren

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Response to crazytown (Reply #41)

Fri Feb 22, 2019, 02:26 PM

48. This

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Elizabeth Warren

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Response to crazytown (Reply #38)

Fri Feb 22, 2019, 01:47 PM

42. "Socialist paints a target on your back"

 

Correct. It is the reason Trump understands how to use short blunt sound bites. Socialist is a perfect fear word, with many convenient offshoots like communist. Voters don't have to know what the terms mean. They associate them with scary and foreign and bad.

Kamala Harris understands the need to counter the socialism tag at this early stage. That is impressive but the long explanation will wander around and be ignored just like Al Gore and the Dingell-Norwood bill.

All of our candidates need to understand that. Short and succinct wins.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Beto O'Rourke

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Response to crazytown (Original post)


Response to Name removed (Reply #43)

Fri Feb 22, 2019, 01:57 PM

44. There's a reason why it's the SPD

 

- the Social Democratic Party of Germany isn’t there? What sort of socialism do you want to talk about? The KdF?
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Elizabeth Warren

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Response to crazytown (Reply #44)


Response to Name removed (Reply #45)

Fri Feb 22, 2019, 02:17 PM

47. As you correctly say socialism is nationalization of production.

 

After WWII Britain nationalised Steel, Coal, Electricity, Rail, Gas, Busses, the Health System and the Bank of England. From memeory, nothing extra was nationalized in the Bundesrepublik, hence my comment about the SPD.

Of course everything was nationalized in the DDR but I think that given a choice at the time you would have preferred to live in the West?
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Elizabeth Warren

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Response to crazytown (Original post)

Fri Feb 22, 2019, 02:42 PM

50. I think this is a smart move

 

Harris is defining herself in the same way Liz Warren has stated she's a capitalist with an economic reform agenda. Both women are progressive but not democratic socialists.

It's information voters need, particularly those uncomfortable with the democratic socialist label.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to crazytown (Original post)

Fri Feb 22, 2019, 02:43 PM

51. Well we won't hold that against her.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to crazytown (Original post)

Fri Feb 22, 2019, 02:54 PM

52. This should be pleasing to the ears of the Hamptons, Martha's Vineyard crowd. nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to m-lekktor (Reply #52)

Fri Feb 22, 2019, 03:37 PM

56. It's pleasing to anyone serious about winning.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to crazytown (Original post)

Fri Feb 22, 2019, 07:27 PM

58. Good... If folks don't think they are one

 

then they shouldn't let others box them in
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Kamala Harris

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #58)

Fri Feb 22, 2019, 07:55 PM

59. 'Socialist'

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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