The hard truth about Biden and I hate saying it

[LeftTurn3623]

First I know I have EW as who I am supporting but I am still kind of undecided. I'm actually starting to lean toward Pete Buttigieg the more I see of him. So my support has nothing to do with what I am about to say.

And I hate to say this cause I like Biden. I always have. Saw him speak live at West York High School (York, PA) in 2008. This pains me to say but Biden just does not have it any more. I assume its age. Everyone ages differently. He gets lost on the debate stage. He forgets what he is saying in mid sentence. He messes up his facts. You can see he knows what he wants to say but he cant get it out. He was a much better debater so you know it has to be his age getting to him. It happens it everyone.

The one commentator on MSNBC even said after the debate (which I was surprised) This was on a question about Sanders - I'm paraphrasing : Sanders did really well tonight. Even though he is older and just coming back from a heart attack he was more coherent than Biden.

I just do not think we can turn a blind eye to this anymore. Then you add in his fundraising numbers and it just backs up the lack of excitement Biden produces.

Starting to think that more center Dems should start looking elsewhere. Pete or Klobuchar maybe? But this is a real problem.

I hope its not wrong for me to say these.

[Iliyah]

1. VP Biden will be ok.

The piling on him is a bit much. Last night Senator Warren sorta saw what's coming. Both are strong contenders, so is the rest in the field.

[Baclava]

21. Former VP, the commentator was right, Bernie looked sharper

It is what it is

[True Blue American]

32. Commentators only

Give their opinions. We know what that is worth.. i thought the whole group did well.

For sure they are more articulate than that boob in the WhiteHouse.

I think it is past time we all think our guy or girl are the bestest of them all. I will vote for any one of them.

See? i hate to type, tapatalk is worse!

[whathehell]

40. Everybody only gives their opinions..

Commentator's opinions are as good as anyone's.

That said, I will, like you, vote for the eventual nominee, whoever that is.

[True Blue American]

49. They can also be as bad.

I quit listening to the pundits who try and tell you what you just listened to when that is not what I heard a few minutes before.

All of us have biases, including pundits.

[whathehell]

58. Did anyone say otherwise?

[True Blue American]

62. My opinions in this thread have to do with

Oh, I do not mean anything, then go on to bad mouth a Democrat.

Reminds me of the old South, Bless her heart before they give their version of the truth!

[whathehell]

150. Uh huh

Not really seeing it that way, so I think I'll just leave it here. Bye now.

[luvtheGWN]

51. Here's the reason Bernie looked sharper:

He says the very same things over and over and over again. So does a robot. I haven't heard anything different from Bernie the many times I've seen him interviewed. I can easily predict what his answers will be.

[Texin]

56. Plus, he's had a couple of weeks off the campaign trail to rest.

[Dream Girl]

77. It also seems like his questions are not gotchas

Moderates appear obunning for Biden because he’s the front runner and given his time in public office there is more “material” to work with

[redstatebluegirl]

87. Amen, he could just carrying a recorder in his pocket and hit play.

[peggysue2]

90. x1000!

It's been the same schtick his entire career. That being said, I thought Sanders did look better than he has in months. Which means he was probably sick and getting sicker since the start of the primary.

As for Joe Biden? I thought he had a solid performance last night, showed some fire in the belly. Elizabeth Warren, however, was under attack and was simply unwilling to give a full-throated defense of Medicare for All and its problematic funding issues.

It was an interesting night with Amy K and Pete B delivering the best performances of the night.

The post-debate polling should be interesting.

[McKim]

92. He Says the Same Things...

He says the same things because his ideas have still not made it into main stream thinking. Medicare for All has still not been achieved. I am forever grateful to him for speaking truth to power and getting his common sense benefits ideas out to the public. As long as we spend more on guns than butter, his “same old ideas” will resonate.

[The Mouth]

118. that is the thing I admire about Bernie

He has stood for the exact same things for decades. He says what needs to be said regardless of how anyone feels about it impacting his 'electability'. He has single handedly changed the issues in play. He's a Jewish Socialist who actually won states in a major party primary. He energizes the people who agree with him like no one else on our side.

I supported him in the primaries in 2016, mostly to move the Overton window. I think we have two or three better candidates as far as defeating Trump this time (to be honest, I knew all along Hillary was going to win the Primary and of course supported her in the general), but I'm deeply grateful for his pushing issues that most of the DINOs would like to see ignored or downplayed.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

152. +100

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

151. I guess, when Bernie's right, he's right... that never changes, true!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[UniteFightBack]

161. Well when you've been saying the same thing over and over and over again for years I'm sure he

could say it all in his sleep.

[kacekwl]

50. Yea, but I don't want OK.

We need someone on top of their game. I love Joe Biden but I have to agree.

[Act_of_Reparation]

2. I don't know if it is a matter of him "not having it" anymore.

I like Joe Biden, too, but we've been down this road three times before. He's not a great campaigner. Not when he was younger, and certainly not now.

[zentrum]

3. Agree with you.

Something's gone missing in Joe.

Also, he looks a little different, facially, every week or so.

And Sanders did seem crisper and more energized than ever. It was his best debate yet.

[sdfernando]

44. Opening up clogged arteries in your heart will do that

The restored blood flow will increase you energy and vitality. It is quite a change from the situation that lead to the heart attack. If this was a nonstemi then there would be little to no damage to the heart. So Sanders should really feel 10000% better.

[zentrum]

139. Fascinating.

Thanks so much for that.

[Demsrule86]

4. No, I think I will just donate...and the piling up on Biden makes me more determined to

never support Warren in a primary. She has not come out against what Trump attempted with Biden...and her supporters attacking Biden are too much for me....I could never support her in a primary...general sure.

[LeftTurn3623]

15. sorry

if you are taking it as piling on. I do not mean it that way. I swear. But I do think we need to talk about the elephant in the room.

I see him struggling to get his message out. I see the lack of excitement. These are real concerns. When Trump will be filling up stadiums in the general and Biden will be in small locations struggling to make it look full. Unfortunately, those images do matter in an election. And yes the money does matter also. He has a hard time raising money. These are not attacks or piling on. These are just observations.

What about Biden & Trump on the debate stage together? Those debates are long and honestly, when I watch Biden in these debates, and he doesn't even have to talk a lot. I actually feel bad for him. I'm sorry but I do because I like him and I can clearly see him struggling. It is sad but its also the truth. In the general he will be on stage a long time and will need to talk a lot. Trump has already attacked him on his age and he isnt coherent. I just see him looking bad on stage with Trump then Trump making ads on it.

[myohmy2]

26. +1

...

[SterlingPound]

60. 100%

[LakeArenal]

86. Which elephant are you talking about. You name about four.

If it the age elephant, it’s been in the room forever. It hasn’t hurt him yet.
Or is it the money elephant?
Because now it’s about how much money they collect?
The elephant of trump’s continually attacking Joe ? Why because we love him.
Now it’s the debating Trump elephant?
Joe had stuck by not going negative on Dems. That won’t hold true for trump.

Don’t feel “bad” for Joe. It’s so insincere

[Demsrule86]

162. You see it that way because you want to...and it is piling on...he has a different style than

Warren...I like his better. And I do not believe she will win a general...I never have. I believe if Biden isn't the nominee Trump wins...I don't see EW winning the EC especially after what was said during the debate...a fair minded person would have said Biden did well in the debate and not allowed Trump to get away with attacking Trump...Warren didn't defend Biden. Thus I won't support her in the primary...and the Warren supporters who have said horrible things about Biden obviously didn't watch the same debate I watched...and Warren danced around the raising of taxes on MFA...which damaged her far more than any statement Biden made...you see Biden faltering because you want to...and Warren supporters attacks have just turned me off to her as a primary candidate...sure I vote for her in a general and I hope to God she wins because if not, we just gave Trump four more years.This was a winnable election...I hope to hell it doesn't end up like 2000,2004 and 2016...where we literally ate our own and lost...a loss in 20 would be way worse too.

[cwydro]

42. That's strange.

Sorry but I’d never hold it against a candidate because their supporters say something I don’t like.

I keep seeing this from Biden folks.

Those of us supporting others aren’t nearly so defensive .

[StarfishSaver]

78. I've noticed that

[Demsrule86]

160. Your candidate has pretty much got a pass and has not been attacked like Biden has been

by more than a few Warren supporters and the media as well. It feels like she is being shoved down my throat...and I think she loses a general. Sure she has my vote in a general.

[SMC22307]

171. Oh, Jeebus, are they starting back up with that again?

"I'm not voting for X because his supporters were mean to me on the internet!" I"m pushing 60 -- never would I allow some stranger online to have that sort of power over me.

[True Blue American]

52. Do not

Let the nay sayers sway you. We need to keep our eye on the ball.

Defeating Trump and every Republican we can! Nothing else matters.

[Demsrule86]

159. Very true...we must get rid of the orange idiot.

[cwydro]

54. She's actually trolling trump on fb.

Good to know who you won’t vote for.

Noted.

[Demsrule86]

157. I do not believe she will win the electoral college...she has my vote in a general of course but

not a primary.

[ramen]

127. Your vote is yours, and I don't pretend to have any ownership over it

nor sway over it.

But here's my perspective on that issue: this is just not the year to take your ball and go home. Get the house fire out of the white house first, then let's worry about the furniture. I enthusiastically fundraised for and donated to Sanders in the 2016 election, but you bet your ass I voted for Clinton and encouraged others to do the same.

I think criticism of a primary candidate is a legitimate discussion point, even when we dislike the criticism. There has been significant criticism of Warren's handling of funding medicare for all, and I think that addressing thst issue sharpens our rhetoric and puts the eventual nominee in a stronger position to deal with the republicans, both in debates and in the court of public opinion.

[Demsrule86]

158. I have never 'taken my ball and gone home'...I vote blue no matter who in a general...but MFA

will get Trump reelected in my opinion. As I stated clearly, Warren has my vote in a general.

[ramen]

164. I misunderstood the last couple sentence fragments,

I see what you're saying, now. Thanks for clarifying.

[Demsrule86]

169. I probably should have been more clear...no problem...

[Mike Nelson]

5. I agree...

... he seemed to not always say what he was thinking, if that makes sense... That's they way I'd describe how I saw him. The clips being shown are not bad, though; they are showing clips of his better replies. On the other hand, Bernie was much improved over that last debate. Pete and Amy "won" but Elizabeth was fine but needs to revise and/or explain her health care proposal; she can still do this.

[LeftTurn3623]

7. you know

I do not understand why EW does not take Pete's approach to healthcare. She can say that she wants healthcare for all but understands a buy in public option might be the best rout to get things passed and a start to getting to a single payer system. Pete just explains it so much better

[Mike Nelson]

12. I think one of the reasons this has...

... become difficult is because she knows she will need to revise for the General Election. I don't know, for sure... She can explain taxes will go up, if she wants to, and explain the savings correctly. so I'm thinking she may have wanted to coast, them specifically moderate if she gets the nomination. She is smart and would govern. She would do the things Pete said on gun control, for example. When the country is there on issues, get them done. Get more progressive, later. That's the Clinton-Obama-Clinton model, too... govern, move forward where you can.

[Autumn]

6. Very fond of him as VP and before he announced I had thought he would be the one

who could get us out of this mess Trump put us in but that thought went away early on. I think Liz or Bernie are the ones who can do it.

[JudyM]

141. I liked Steyer last night, too, Autumn.

Enjoyed listening to his ideas, when he got a chance to talk.

[Autumn]

154. Yes he has some really good ideas. I watch his videos on FB. He's a very good person

and very Liberal. I don't think he stands a chance becoming the nominee but I'm very grateful for his voice and everything he does to get Dems elected.

[ehrnst]

144. So why are you backing Steyer?

[highplainsdem]

8. Your concern is noted.

[LAS14]

18. This is one of those responses that I don't think is worthy of DU. If...

... you disagree with the OP (as I'm sure you do), have enough respect to say so, and hopefully why. It's a discussion forum.

[Cha]

22. I think you should let people respond

how they want to instead of going around telling them what to do.

What do you think about that, LAS?

[LAS14]

29. I will continue to make a case for rational discussion as contrasted with ad hominem interaction. n

[Cha]

31. People don't like to be told what to do. I know

I sure as hell don't.

[True Blue American]

57. Neither do I

I am at a point I do not want to hear one Democrat bad mouth another, considering the crooks we now have in charge who are hell bent against tearing our country apart.

I want them gone!

[Cha]

95. Nobody does.. I can't believe someone's

going around telling people how to post.. As if we don't have enough to deal with in our lives.. and yeah I called her out on it.

Aloha, True Blue!

[True Blue American]

136. Aloha back.

[cwydro]

166. Lol, one of the posters you're defending often tells others how and what to post.

I even got a pm from this person, whom I won’t name, telling me what not to post.

So perhaps this poster should learn something from this.

[Bradshaw3]

91. Yet you told the poster what they shouldn't be doing

[RandiFan1290]

142. OMG LOL

[Cobalt Violet]

38. They'd rather just insinuate that you're a troll.

They probably didn't even read your post fully.

[cwydro]

167. Thank you.

[LAS14]

172. How does one pronounce cwydro? Is it Welsh? nt

[True Blue American]

36. Thank you.

Not bad enough we have to listen to Republicans insult our fine candidates. You know the rest! We need the cadle.

[Lordquinton]

145. If you can't tell the difference between what the op said

And what Republicans say, then maybe you should read the post again.

[snowybirdie]

9. Perhaps the "Biden is losing it folks"

don't remember that he has a stuttering problem all his life. He needs to speak slowly to not stutter. A massive debate stage is not his best forum. He's a winner who can fix what tRump has broken and not afraid to utilize the expertise of others. That's what I care about.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

28. Stuttering is not the same as getting facts wrong.

[True Blue American]

39. Biden did not get the facts wrong!

Matter of fact he was quite eloquent in his facts. Most people who say the wrong word do that because their minds get ahead of their tongue.

[pangaia]

47. His stuttering issue is not the problem.

I speak from years of past experience, and like Biden, I have overcome 99% of it.

I would venture that I pretty much can tell when he is 'working around' the problem, and the rare times he does actually stutter...

Also, I believe like Biden, at my age of almost 76, my formerly very quick brain has slowed. For example, I forget WHICH 8 bar rest I am counting. LOL.

I also forget people's names occasionally, even words..

On the other hand a dear friend who was about 5 years older than I when died 2 years ago, had a brain every bit as sharp as it was when he was 25. My body is still quite healthy. 5'10" 165 lbs, resting heart rate of about 56, can run (LOL) 9 minute miles, BP 124/72, etc etc.... His body gave out.

So there is all that.........

[True Blue American]

65. I listened to the debate this morning.

Twice, I heard Joe misuse a word. You could tell his mind was working a mile a minute.

There was not one person on that stage that could not compete against Trump, the dim witted.

His nasty name calling is past the sell date.

[FakeNoose]

80. +1000 This needs to be said

Individual speaking patterns shouldn't determine the answer to "Who is the best Democratic candidate to go against Chump?" I find Bernie Sander's speaking style a turnoff but I still listen to what he has to say.

Yes Joe Biden is a winner, and he can fix our broken government. It's going to take all of our Dem leaders to fix the shit-show that Chump has done in Washington.

[LakeArenal]

10. Hard truth? Hard opinion. Everyone has one

Which has dog Joe from the beginning?

And he consistently stays in the lead.

That’s the truth. Hard or otherwise.

[Cha]

73. Yeah, it's "hard opinion" and the OP is

trying to sell it as "hard truth" for some reason.

Not buying it.

Aloha, LakeArenal

[LakeArenal]

82. Pura Vida as they say in Costa Rica

[Thekaspervote]

99. Interesting that DU is one of the only forums that thinks EW did so well

Dodging questions.. that’s doing well?

There is a lot of praise for Biden and Amy K, and certainly that was my take away, which is mine.

[Cha]

107. They're proud she dodged from what I'm reading.. not sure why.

Anyway, it's all subjective.

I ******* hate primaries.

Mahalo, Kasper!

[Thekaspervote]

114. Oh don't ya thou!!

[True Blue American]

120. Joe was laying out a whole list of facts

Said he was sorry for taking so long but it needed to be said.

He hugged Bernie, also hugged Elizabeth. It was clear they all were friends.

[cwydro]

133. Aww, so sorry

[True Blue American]

137. I am not sorry.

The whole Democratic group make me very proud that I am a life long Democrat.

But I am sorry you are sorry. Not sure why with things looking better every day

[cwydro]

138. Lol.

Got ya.

[Lordquinton]

146. Funny, it seems like DU is one of the few places that thinks Warren didn't do well

And your disrespect is noted.

[W_HAMILTON]

11. He's had stuttering problems his whole life.

You can see that his problem isn't that his mind is acting "too slow" -- it's acting too fast, usually faster than his mouth can keep up. I don't see him losing track of what he is saying; I seem him as wanting to speak on so many subjects and different tracks that he abruptly ends one thought and continues on to another.

Have you been around someone that has been effected by dementia or Alzheimer's or other similar age-related cognitive impairment conditions? Because I have, and they don't act like how Biden acts. Their minds move slowly. You tell them something and you can see that they don't even react to it -- you have to tell them again, sometimes several times. You ask them a question and you see them struggling to come up with words for how to answer it, often leaving you to fill in where they cannot -- almost acting as a translator for them.

[dalton99a]

14. +1

[LeftTurn3623]

19. I hope you are right

but look back at his old debates and he did not act like this. He was pretty quick and got his points out better.

cause I do think he will win the nomination.

[True Blue American]

41. Again, thank you.

I just posted that!

[Martin Eden]

53. It looked like he knew what he wanted to say, but couldn't quite get it out at times

Could be his mind was ahead of his speech, at least partly due to a debate format in which candidates have to talk very quickly in the very limited time allotted for a response. Joe has been among the best in respecting the rules by not continuing to talk long after time is up.

But in an election, perception is what matters. Joe might be vulnerable to talking points about diminished capacity due to age (he would turn 80 before the end of his first term, as would Bernie).

Personally, I think 80 is too old for a very stressful job which requires a high level of mental vigor and endurance (Trump is unfit for the job on many levels).

I thought one of Joe's strongest points was his experience, being ready for the presidency on day one without needing on the job training.

Joe Biden will get my primary vote if I think he is the only one with a high degree of probability to defeat the Rethug, but that remains to be seen.

The 2002 Senate vote to give GW Bush authority to invade Iraq has been a litmus test for me ever since, not easily forgiven.

[emmaverybo]

85. I have. Both stayed articulate, but had problems with simple daily processes, losing stuff, short

term memory, responding in group talk situations, sometimes not all there. But morel a cleanser put in the fridge than speech problems.

[W_HAMILTON]

100. *That* is a sign of aging -- not full blown dementia or Alzheimer's.

I myself have some of those same sort of problems and I'm in my thirties. Forgetting where you put something happens to everyone as we get older, but that is a far cry from actual dementia or Alzheimer's, at least once it's progressed pass the earliest of stages.

[emmaverybo]

130. With dementia, persistent short term memory problems, inability to follow steps in a process,

putting away things in totally inappropriate places when one previously was methodically organized, these behavior changes CAN BE signs. However, I’d be difficult to read as I was born absent minded.

Wish we had a better word than dementia which makes it sound like folks are foaming at the mouth. The signs are more subtle. And people have an intellectual reservoir to draw upon as well as knowledge. My relative was reading a book on Kim Jong un and conversant in it, but would forget what we were having for dinner when repeatedly told.

In any case, Biden is not cognitively impaired.

[ALBliberal]

13. I think we are seeing latent signs of his stuttering

problem. Could be nerves. And I imagine it’s hurting his confidence a bit.
That being said I think he’s quite brilliant and has lost nothing upstairs.
The main reason I support him is his foreign policy credentials. I think he’s the best suited for building a stellar team and helping us come back from the abyss.

[emmaverybo]

89. Yep. And he will not be in a group debate with Putin. His speeches and writings have been A+,

good interviews. The tendency to stutter is made worse with performance stress. I am not
voting for an ace debater, but a leader with experience, knowledge, and tested abilities. That’s Biden.

[bullwinkle428]

16. I attended 2 of Joe's campaign appearances in January 2008, just ahead

of the Iowa caucus that was ultimately won by Barack Obama in convincing fashion.

I completely agree with you that he was incredibly sharp at that time! Just covered a fantastic range of topics, and really hit the nail on the head as far as foreign policy, specifically in terms of the Iraq war, still raging at the time. He nearly convinced me to change my preference, but he obviously never resonated with Iowa Democrats as a group, and dropped out of the race maybe a day or two after the caucus.

Went to a campaign appearance back in April or May, and there was a noticeable difference in how he came across. Please don't get me wrong; if he ends up winning the nomination, I will proudly and enthusiastically get the word out and vote for him, but I have to wonder if the effects of age and everything else he's been through (Beau's death, etc.) have taken their toll.

[Eyeball_Kid]

37. Vitality and mental competence don't last forever. We all age. We age in a variety of ways.

And there are clear, concrete signs of aging. For some, physical abilities decline faster than mental abilities. It looks like Biden's mental abilities are taking the lead in the aging process.

[stonecutter357]

17. you seem very concerned !

[LAS14]

20. See my reply #18.

[stonecutter357]

23. No , I think i will just put you on Full Ignore and Auto-trash by Keyword !

[Cha]

25. Aloha, stonecutter!

[stonecutter357]

30. Hi cha !

[Cha]

34. lol

[Scurrilous]

84. ...

[Thekaspervote]

102. Good idea.. because it's never right to drag down our dem candidates

[myohmy2]

24. +1

...

[MaryMagdaline]

27. He's competing against Democrats.

He’ll look like a genius next to Trump

[True Blue American]

43. :)

[Jarqui]

46. That's a problem for me

I think the GOP is doing the Ali Rope-a-Dope.
When the time is right, they're going to dump Trump.
The table is set. It is just a question of when the timing is best for the GOP.
I suspect that timing is after the Dems pick the candidate best suited to beat Trump: Joe.
Then they'll throw Trump under the bus and present the candidate best suited to beat Joe.
That gives the GOP a much better chance of hanging on to the White House.
We need to be pounding on the GOP for enabling Trump now.
The best Dem candidate to win in 2020 is what is needed - not necessarily the best candidate to beat Trump.

[LuvNewcastle]

101. I mostly agree with that.

Trump is going to get his die-hard fans and the Democrat will get the loyal Dems, so the battle is going to be for the independents. Which of our candidates would most likely excite indys to get out and vote. Would that be Biden? I doubt it, but I've been wrong before. I think the Democratic Party needs new blood and a fresh face.

I know people don't like to hear this, but most of the Baby Boomers need to retire. Their desperate attempt to hang on to power is like the hand coming out of the grave in a horror movie. Boomers can still use their votes as well as their funds to moderate the party's candidates, but it's time to get out of the limelight. If you don't want the party to be run by AOC in the future, It would be a good idea to encourage some young moderates now who can keep the party in power for years to come.

[wnylib]

131. I think u r correct on this.

It"s what I've been thinking for a while.

Trump has annoyed his own party on cherished issues like the market's up and down instability. Tariffs hurting US businesses. The whole Syria, Kurds, Turkey business. Not to mention last summer's insanity over Greenland and the chosen one.

The traitor party is fine with the chief traitor as long as their own agenda issues are satisfied. Some of those traitors are compromised and must stick with the orange dictator. Others want his insanity stopped. They'll never stop him in a way that would cost them party power.

But if they replace him when the timing is right for them,then they might hope to retain the WH.

We need to prepare for all possibilities. Focus on winning the public's support for our.programs no matter who our candidate's opponent is. When trump is too much of a liability for his party they will dump him. Impeachment revelations increase trump's liability to his party.

[maddiemom]

72. Just read the transcript of any Trump speech!

And we're worried about JOE? Is it a plus that Trump can blather on and on in an animated manner? I guess, to many, this proves that he's not "losing it" due to ageing. He misunderstands many of the questions he's asked, or just doesn't answer them...that is, if you can hear him over the helicopter. I'm sorry to say that Biden does seem to have slowed down bit from 2012 when he decimated Paul Ryan. Give him a strong, younger running mate, however, and I wouldn't really be concerned with him debating the Orange Fool.

[Eyeball_Kid]

33. Well... you're right.

I saw what you saw. And I saw it earlier. But Biden has the momentum of a man who is steeped in gravitas. Just his name brings in millions of campaign donations. Biden's reputation, his connections, his name recognition, and carry him deep into primary season. But eventually most of us should recognize that he's being propped up by his army of advance people and his media team. When it comes down to actually listening to his words, Biden sounds distracted and confused. He tries to turn our attention away from his cognitive decline by turning up the volume of his emotionality. He has moments of passionate outrage in which he has clear thoughts, but those pass quickly.

[emulatorloo]

35. Welcome to DU! You must have been watching a different debate than I did because Joe

Biden was solid and on point.

[phandancer917]

48. Except...

....when he stated he would get rid of the Capital Gains tax (then immediately stated he would increase it) and almost stated he would get rid of Roe V Wade.

I want ANYONE but Trump and will HAPPILY campaign and vote for Joe if he wins the nomination. However, I think it is willful ignorance to turn a blind eye to this issue. We have several amazing options for President and should not just fall in line with Joe due to his association with the Greatest president in my lifetime.


Again -- ANYONE BUT TRUMP

[emulatorloo]

64. It was pretty clear he wants to increase capital gains tax, he even stated the percentage of

increase. It’s fine you have an opinion, but please try to refrain from calling others who don’t share your opinion “willfully ignorant” and “blind.”

[ritapria]

109. I believe Biden said he wanted to double the CAP Gains Tax Rate

[Mosby]

123. Which one?

He stated the short term rate, which is mostly used by day traders. The long term rate (12+ months) is a max 20%.

[Thekaspervote]

110. Yes, he did! Again, DU seems to be one of the only forums that doesn't think so- Amy was great

Too. Of course, maybe that’s the issue here, that Amy really laid EW low, and so did Pete have some tough questions regarding mfa with which there were no real answers!!

The polls here do not represent the greater voter population - it’s a very small select group.

[LanternWaste]

45. Though you allege concern

Though you allege concern, not quite enough concern to provide any actual, objective evidence to support your premise, eh?

Yours is merely a series of unsupported allegations, one after the other, predicated entirely on a heavily biased interpretation of your own emotions.

I can only hope your eventual vote for a candidate is based on rational and critical thought rather than faith-based prophecies and empty conjecture. But it's OK if you don't... "it happens to everyone."

[LeftTurn3623]

134. you want a sample

watch the clip where he talks about Biden. I mean its pretty obvious

[LanternWaste]

135. And still... simply anecdotal and unsupported interpretive inference.

Opinions ain't reality. That's the fundamental flaw you're consistently making.

[kennetha]

55. As I said in another thread

Biden is like a pitcher who once upon a time maybe had a decent fastball, with some life and bite and maybe some late movement, but not the blistering overpowering type that makes for a top of the rotation ace, and maybe not one over which he had plus command, but he could still throw it for strikes and miss a few bats or induce weak contact. Sort of like your number 4 starter type in a really good rotation. Even in his prime, there was always somebody you'd rather give the ball to, if you could. But when it was his turn to pitch, you felt no real need to skip him. He kept you in the game and gave you a chance to win, after all, even if he didn't dominate.

But now, his fastball just doesn't have much bite or life or movement. And unless he can learn to live on the corners, it just gets hammered. But living on the corners takes the kind of command he never developed in the first place. You really gotta develop those secondary pitches if you are going to stay in the game at that point. Otherwise it's time to hang it up, and live off your memories of the Glory Days.

Time does that to most pitchers eventually. It also does it to some politicians, I think.

[crazytown]

69. trump: "Joe Biden has truly lost his fastball" - August 9

The analogy may be illustrative, but best avoided under the circumstances.

[emulatorloo]

71. +1

[panfluteman]

59. It's Not Wrong to Say It

I feel that your thoughts and sentiments are echoed by many others on this site. No problemo, compadre!

[Kahuna7]

61. Someone who has been active on the national and international..

stage for as long as Biden, has an unrivaled wealth of experience unequaled by any other candidate. So what if he stumbles his words. He has a wealth of wisdom, knowledge, relationships, respect and experience.

[SterlingPound]

67. So make him an adviser

[Hassin Bin Sober]

79. He voted for the Iraq war.

[Lordquinton]

147. Yep

Mahalo Hassan!

[Hassin Bin Sober]

148. I'll see your mahalo and raise you one hakuna matata

[emmaverybo]

94. which is what he will draw upon in his daily duties and interactions as Prez, not some dazzling

large group debating feats. He has been substantive, given developed and pertinent answers, provided support for his arguments, reacted with grace and calm, no show of bad temper or prickly ego as have others, and LISTENED to his rivals while some are just all in their little worlds, drilling lines for their next moment, raising those little hands, and honestly unable to even look
at their fellows when they don’t have the floor.

I saw some unnecessarily rude, over-reactive, stupidly snide moments last night, none which would bother brute Trump, just draw him out, and it wasn’t Biden who initiated these.
Those woefully naive and ignorant on foreign policy either need to study up, consult with an expert, shut up, or not be considered in this election.

[dubyadiprecession]

63. You: " I hate to say this cause I like Biden"?

It’s good thing, you got up the courage to say something.... since your already a Warren supporter.

[True Blue American]

66. :)

[beachbumbob]

68. same mis-direction as always, there will be plenty of money for Biden as he brings a huge big tent

following to the election. NOT a SINGLE bluestate is at risk ON ANY LEVEL at all with Biden as nominee and many battleground states that trump took can easily go to biden where not so much with any of the other candidates. Coastal buble too many live in that thinks what plays in California, NY or Mass will play in Iowa, Michigan or Pennsylvania.

[Thekaspervote]

111. Indeed! Sanders far out raised Hillary in '16.

[Green Line]

70. Now I have to donate to Joe again

[pnwest]

74. I'm 100% with you. Have felt this since

he got in the race. He’s by no means a doddering old man, but he does have a little bit of “old man” air about him. Not quite as quick or with it anymore. It’s subtle, but I see it. Not a stutter - but the tiniest bit of slowing down of mental processes. And the last thing we need next in office is another president who needs “handling”. The next prez needs to be strong, competent and fully in charge of his/her mental faculties.

[blue-wave]

75. Well, Ha!

So much for not criticizing other Democrats here. I guess that rule only applies to certain people. As for Joe, he can run circles around tRump. Much more so than any other candidate in the field.

[emmaverybo]

96. And he has from his launch, which is why Trump fears him.

[Thekaspervote]

112. And he made that very clear, especially when it comes to foreign policy

I tell ya... why is NO one talking about the fact that EW said she thinks pulling out of the Middle East completely is a good idea?? With all that has gone on these last few days....stunning

[Lordquinton]

149. Warren would eat trump alive on the stage

And I can't wait to see it happen!

[PhoenixDem]

76. Your concern and empathy towards Biden brought tears to my eyes

[Cha]

88. lol

omg

[vlyons]

81. You're right

I'm 72, and I can't find words that I used to know perfectly well. People's names escape me too. I consider myself very sharp. I'm educated and well read. But I'm sure my age affects the acuity of my brain.

Even so, were Biden to become POTUS, he would surround himself with super smart people and an expert cabinet. So it would not be like Trump trying to run an empire with nothing but grifter sycophants.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

83. He may have been faster on his feet in a debate in the past,

but that doesn't mean he's becoming senile. He's never been a really facile debater, possibly because he used to stutter very badly, something he didn't get control over until he was in his 20's. You do slow down when you age but that doesn't mean you've lost your marbles; it means only that you can't count them as quickly. No spring chicken myself, I find that it takes me a little longer to process information - but I can still process it with the same results. I don't learn new material as quickly as I used to but I still can learn it. Presidents shouldn't make snap decisions; we have already seen what can happen when they do. Instead, they need to consult with others, evaluate, and carefully consider results - something that should not be done quickly. Yes, age slows you down a bit, but you do get smarter about important things. We should not discount the value of years of experience and the wisdom it brings. The presidency isn't about snappy ripostes during debates.

[Chemisse]

93. I agree about Joe Biden and I am not happy with Elizabeth Warren for other reasons.

I liked Amy last night, and I always like Mayor Pete.

[Thekaspervote]

113. Me too! Amy and Pete were so spot on!!

[raging moderate]

97. ./?

As a retired public-school speech/language pathologist, I must speak out here. Joe Biden has a life-long problem with stuttering. He worked hard to get it under control. Most people do not realize that stuttering is not just the occasional repetition of speech sounds. After all, the Spanish language and some old English dialects have deliberate rapid-fire R sounds, but the key word here is "deliberate." People with a stuttering problem have trouble getting words out of their mouth, and the problem has other effects beside the sound repetition. That movie, "The King's Speech," showed how a speech therapist worked with King George of England to help him learn to control this speech problem. He became one of the most powerful speakers of the Second World War. Part of this power, I believe, was the poignancy of King George's painful and magnificent victory over his speech impediment. The pain and triumph resonated through those slow, careful words. He gave courage to others to overcome other seemingly impossible obstacles.

I have hesitated to speak out because I was not a stuttering specialist, and it has been a long time since I dealt with all this. Also, I do not know the exact nature of Joe Biden's stuttering problem. It is not the same for everybody. There are various and varying effects on the ability to say the exact thing one meant to say. Some words may be difficult without warning, and the "stutterer" must suddenly choose another word. Then other phrases must be modified so the idea makes sense. Of course, their speech therapists have tried to help them overcome this, but apparently it is not foolproof. During my education, we were shown evidence of an underlying tiny nervous system glitch which may run in families, and also the unpredictable effects of random coincidences which suddenly trigger an episode. What you sometimes see may be the effect, not of old age, but of a stuttering problem.

[Beringia]

98. I agree with you

I remember him from many senate hearings, which I paid attention to during that part of my life, late 1980s, early 1990s. He was full of piss and vinegar then. Now it seems, he is a very changed man, with much less energy.

[lettucebe]

103. The fact that he's not buying ads to target younger voters pretty much sums it up

That and his stance on legalizing cannabis (he's against -- last I saw), pretty much guarantees he's a no. The young have the most to lose in this election.

[jcgoldie]

104. I agree

As much as some folks have bemoaned Biden's media coverage and the couple of incidents in previous debates when he was confronted by other candidates on his record, he has not faced anything remotely like the pressure that Warren faced last night with 5 or 6 candidates launched pre-planned attacks at her positions. I shudder to think how he would even handle that sort of pressure given the difficulty he seems to have keeping his words and train of thought straight at times.

[empedocles]

105. Biden 'had it', greatly, in 2008, but Dem primary voters paved the road

to the tea party.

[awesomerwb1]

106. Joe Biden's alleged ability

or alleged lost ability to debate is qualification number 49 out of 50 for me. In other words, it does not bother me one bit as it would have zero impact in his ability to govern. ZERO.
I'd be extremely happy with his nomination. EXTREMELY.

[jalan48]

108. I agree. He struggles to find words when he answers.

It’s obvious to most except the true believers.

[jcgoldie]

115. I think it has to do with debate prep

I do think its age related. But it sort of came to me when Axelrod was talking about debate prep immediately prior to the debate last night. They cram them with so many points that they need to get across and it seems to me that Biden is cycling through them trying to find the words and stumbling from point to point often times.

[jalan48]

116. If he's our candidate the problem will be magnified.

[bucolic_frolic]

117. Ya sew doubts about our best candidates

like a 2016 Russian operative. It's a real stretch the way you paint it. I'm always skeptical of those newbies with few posts who sew double messages and discord, it's the 2016 playbook back to life.

[Tarheel_Dem]

121. +1. We've seen this movie, and we know how it ends.

[emmaverybo]

126. But when one hates to do it, but tells the "hard truth" anyway? Doesn't that kind of heroic

willingness mean no way could one be knocking a top Dem candidate for any other reason than to
help us—save us from ourselves?

[Baked Potato]

119. I'm not worried about Joe Biden

at all. He will surround himself with Top Shelf people to administer good government. He, like all good Democrats, will appoint Secretaries who really care about their departments. I’m sure he would pick a VP who would knock our socks off.

Joe Biden’s core values are apparent to me as what I want in a President. I would like a younger Joe, because we’re all sharper when we’re younger. But, his stopping mid sentence I think has more to do with him wanting to use his little time to make a lot of points, rather than just forgetting stuff.

There are some other good Democrats out there who, if they ran, would’ve been great. But, they chose not to, so we have what we have to work with. Opinions, all.

[Peacetrain]

124. neither am I..

[Katinfl]

125. I did not watch last night

Because I knew the stage was too crowded and each one was fighting for their sound bite. Too soon for me to make a choice but I do wish Biden never got in the race. I agree that what you are saying about he’s not quite up to par.....whatever the reason. That said, I will be happy to vote for whoever the candidate is. Any one of them on stage last night is ten times better on their worst day than trump is on his best day.

[Gothmog]

128. I met Biden at a fundraiser after the Houston Debate and I disagree

I was pleased with Biden's performance last night. I met Vice President Biden at a private fundraiser at a lawyer's condo and Joe was great. I was a Clinton national delegate and I got Joe to sign three floor signs that we used during his speech in Philadelphia.

I admit that I also want Biden to be the nominee because I want Texas to be a battleground state. I and a number of real hardcore Democrats have been working hard to turn Texas blue. Right now, Texas will be a battleground state for the Presidential race if we nominate Biden or another moderate. In 2018, we flipped two Congressional seats from red to blue (Lizzie Fletcher and Colin Allred). Colin and Lizzie are being targeted by the GOP and we will have to work hard to defend these seats. I have already donated to Colin and will be donating to Lizzie

In addition the DCCC and the Texas state party have identified 6 additional congressional seats that could be flipped. I have donated to Sri Preston Kulkarni, Kim Olson and Wendy Davis. In addition, Texas Democrats picked up 12 seats in the Texas state house in 2018 and we need to flip 9 seats in the Texas state house to control the Texas house and the 2021 redistricting session.

If Warren is the nominee, I am convinced that Texas will not be a battleground state and it is clear that we will have trouble flipping any seats and may lose Lizzie's and Colin's seats. I doubt that we will be able to flip the Texas state house and will see some horrible redistricting.

Biden has not lost it and I will be supporting him

[stopbush]

129. If the low-information voters, indie voters and a small % of R voters willing to vote D

are as forgiving of Biden’s obvious elocution difficulties as is the average DUer, he should be a shoo-in for POTUS.

[UniteFightBack]

163. My deplorable co worker said he could 'handle' Biden. I said Oh come on nobody else on the debate

stage you like...what about Mayor Pete? He balked at everybody but especially can't stand one candidate and like I said it ain't Biden.

Moral of the story Joe has broad appeal - regardless and that's what I want, broad appeal and beating that orange ass by a WIDE MARGIN...Joe Biden will provide that.

[ElementaryPenguin]

132. "Debating" on a stage with 11 other people has nothing to do with being President!

We ought to bear that in mind.

And ANYONE can defeat the clueless POS Trump in anything like a debate.

With his experience and knowhow, Biden would make a fine President - even if he is not quite in his prime.

No one could reestablish our credibility abroad faster than Biden.

[totodeinhere]

143. Correct, we are electing a president, not a debating team coach.

n/t

[Joe941]

140. Thank you for backing up your opionion with supporting reasons.

I hear far too many people say straight up ageist comments. Yous was well thought out and well supported.

[doc03]

153. Why does the MSM make age a factor for Warren, Sanders and Biden but nobody says

anything about Trump's age. Trump obviously has dementia problems already and he will be just short of 75
on inauguration day if he wins re-election?

[True Dough]

155. A few of us have been saying this for a quite a while

and we even have a "hide" or two for daring to utter such words!

[motorcity]

156. I supported Biden in 2007, saw him in person and

he was a great speaker. 10 years later and he is definitely showing the signs of aging, and it will likely get worse over the course of strenuous presidential campaign.

[mahina]

165. I too sometimes forget what I'm saying mid-sentence if it's a complex argument BUT

I don’t have spotlights on me and thousands watching me so I can stall while I remember.

Has it gotten worse?

[PDittie]

168. It hasn't

improved.

[Demsrule86]

170. I think you are wrong and consider this. Joe is still the front runner despite some pollsters and

media types best efforts...https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287314026

[redqueen]

173. I was wondering if this was discussed here.

Did a search for the worst examples, things that can't be explained by a stuttering issue, and found 0 mentioned.

Considering that they were pretty big news and probably impacted his candidacy, was shocked to not see them mentioned here.