Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumIt's possible to avoid 3 trillion/year "taxes" for M4A
Last edited Mon Oct 21, 2019, 12:15 AM - Edit history (1)
I'm surprised that it's been talked about so little. I suspect Elizabeth Warren will propose something like this.
Right now a plurality (49%) of the private health insurance premiums are paid by employers to private (group) plans. Having employers pay will mean they get a big new tax, but individuals won't.
It would be quite possible to shift their obligation to a M4A program.
It is the co-pays that are the question.
Personal insurance is only a small percentage of the total market. Medicare, Medicaid and the VA are already government run.
The numbers from the Kaiser Foundation:
49% employer covered (group)
7% non-group (eg Obamacare)
21% Medicaid
14% Medicare
1% Other public (like VA)
9% uninsured
So the key is covering the uninsured and the non-group individuals==~16% which will be much less than the 3 trillion/year bill.
This will be similar to the contribution employers make to social security for each employee.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
blm
(113,052 posts)Some people need to SEE the math.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to blm (Reply #1)
elocs This message was self-deleted by its author.
blm
(113,052 posts)Porters mentor was Warren.
https://m.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cuthbert Allgood
(4,921 posts)What I like about M4A is that is not dependent on my employer not being a douchebag. And I don't have to worry every year how much my insurance is going to go up.
If they are not paying for insurance, they can pay me more.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
brooklynite
(94,520 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cuthbert Allgood
(4,921 posts)At any point, when it is "given" to you by your employer, you could have no insurance or shittier insurance with very little input from you. Not so much if the government is providing it. And the money my employer is expending on me for my insurance benefits can now go right to my wages.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
brewens
(13,582 posts)of higher wages. Somehow all of that money need to go into the system and or to the workers. If you let the corporations just pocket all that and make up all the difference in taxes on working people, it can't stand a chance. People could never pay all that. One reason why I have no use for anyone that's been describing M4A like that.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Pete Buttigieg, who claims that Warren's plan is not explained, claims that he will get everyone covered by recinding the tax scam and with savings from negotiating drug prices. So, we know the tax scam costs about $1.3+ Trillion per year.
So Warren can recind the tax scam and other tax giveaways to the super rich and be at close to $1.5-1.6 trillion. She then adds negotiation of drug prices on tops of those savings to take her over $2 trillion. My argument is that is all that would be needed to cover everyone that Medicare and the VA doesn't cover. Medicaid and Obamacare expenditures should be given over to MFA or an Advanced Obamacare, call it whatever you want to.
Under the plan that I laid out, individuals will keep the premiums they pay for their corporate insurance in their pockets. Corporations will also benefit by saving the premiums that they now pay out for employees, that likely will be sufficient to not have them notice that their tax scam money and giveaway money has been taken away.
One additional upside to Warren's system is that employees won't be subject to annual increases in their portion of their healthcare premiums ever again.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
wasupaloopa
(4,516 posts)Any new health care legislation will be put together like the ACA was. By bipartisan compromise.
We could hold a contest where everyone dreams up their own health care plan and the one that makes it to the President's desk get a prize. We really wouldn't need to buy a prize because none of them will reach the president's desk.
Now the really easy one is the Bernie fan one where everybody gets free health care funded by the top one percent. No prize for that one.
It's called the bold progressive agenda.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)of the Executive Order process, she can simply do an Executive Order and dare the Courts to do anything about it.
Look, any attempt to get a better healthcare system for this country will be met with violent resistance from republicans, that will be the case whether we go for a milk-toast adjustment to the ACA or something bolder like MFA. Republicans are going to fight us rrgardless, fuck em, we need to shoot for the sky and shove what we want down their damned throats.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)I dont doubt shell try that, but we will pay for it through higher prices, lower wages, small businesses selling out, disruptions in healthcare system, etc.
We dont need Warren to tell us how she going to fake us out. We need a CBO score that tells the truth, including impact on economy, employers, self-employed, healthcare utilization, provider income and pay for nurses, etc.
Personally, I think we can achieve a viable, affordable single payer system over time. But, I dont want it sold by saying someone else is going to pay for it because that is not the case.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Joe941
(2,848 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)You wait until General Election when people say, I need all this programs, but these pipe dreams aint gonna work.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ritapria
(1,812 posts)We can bring in 5-7 million first time voters who will rally to our standard if we loudly and proudly proclaim a bold progressive agenda That's the New Math ...Incrementalism gave us Donald Trump
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
wasupaloopa
(4,516 posts)by offering them candy and circus. Shame on that idea!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
PETRUS
(3,678 posts)Last edited Mon Oct 21, 2019, 01:48 PM - Edit history (1)
We should probably impose tolls on all the roads, charge tuition for all K-12 education, and insist people purchase subscriptions for the fire department, too.
What's with all the distaste for public goods and services, and why do you see them as bribery?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)And that put us years away from meaningful healthcare and other legislation.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
wasupaloopa
(4,516 posts)They lie like trump does to his base. It is sucker bate.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Joe941
(2,848 posts)We can decide who we believe.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)MFA is a political loser. We should support the public option.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
andym
(5,443 posts)Under the kind of plan I am guessing will be proposed. At least larger employers.
There is even a good precedent: the social security tax. Employers pay 6.2% of an employee's salary
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
wasupaloopa
(4,516 posts)beside private insurance.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Gothmog
(145,176 posts)Such a plan in theory may generate societal savings but such savings would not pay for a program. Governments can only spend tax revenues and/or borrowings. This study does not say how one would pay for such a program in the real world. I note that Prof. Krugman like the concepts of such a plan in theory but notes that taxes will have to be raised a great deal to pay for such a plan
Back in 2016, here is his position Prof. Krugman compares Sanders hoped for health care savings to the GOP tax cuts. http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/01/19/weakened-at-bernies/?_r=0
To be harsh but accurate: the Sanders health plan looks a little bit like a standard Republican tax-cut plan, which relies on fantasies about huge supply-side effects to make the numbers supposedly add up. Only a little bit: after all, this is a plan seeking to provide health care, not lavish windfalls on the rich and single-payer really does save money, whereas theres no evidence that tax cuts deliver growth. Still, its not the kind of brave truth-telling the Sanders campaign pitch might have led you to expect.
Today, Prof. Krugman says that such a plan is feasible if you are willing to pay a great deal more in taxes
https://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/paul-krugman-explains-why-single-payer-health-care-entirely-achievable-us-and-how
The amount of higher taxes are not quantified in this article by Krugman. To pay for any such plan will require massive tax hikes
Again sanders has utterly failed in his attempts to get Vermont to adopt his magical single payer plan because the state of Vermont cannot use hypothetical societal saving to pay for this plan. Even Krugman admits that much higher taxes are needed
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
andym
(5,443 posts)The basic idea is that 30% of health care is already paid for by the government. 50% is paid for by mostly by companies. A new plan may just require companies to pay the government instead of private insurers (which would be the smart thing to do) and 20% is are either not covered or on individual plans (those on Obamacare are already partially covered). So new "individual" taxes are needed for just 20%.
It is the co-pays and deductibles that are an issue-- just how generous should the plan(s) be.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden