Do the Sanders supporters know something that the rest of us don't?

[question everything]

Why, then, the desperate desire to post a supposedly Biden hit piece sourced by Ralph Nader - who helped Bush in 2000 - again and again?

[sheshe2]

1. I noticed that.

Multiple times. Hmmm.

[TwilightZone]

2. Nader called Obama a war criminal and called for his impeachment.

It's rather difficult to take anything he says seriously anymore.

[sweetloukillbot]

4. I remember him calling Obama an Uncle Tom

On election night 2008. That was when I lost all respect for him.

[question everything]

14. That's horrible. I've never heard about that

[sweetloukillbot]

31. Worst I had a Nader-ite friend defend him

That friend went full on MAGA in less than 8 years, all because of Nader and Ron Paul.

[Hortensis]

48. The farther left, the more like the far right.

Extremists have far more in common with each other than more balanced, truth-based people.

[sweetloukillbot]

53. Traded weed for guns, next thing he was defending the n word

[Hortensis]

54. Oh, dear. And Mussolini was analogous to our LW populist-

socialist types until he adopted fascism and replaced Italy's legislature with a council of business leaders -- which he controlled. Hitler's arch-conservative, far-righter than far right, government also included remnants of his far-left musings.

Most start on the right and relatively few make that move from the left as they develop, of course, but immense hostility to the mainstream is a huge passion common to extremists on both sides, and uniting to fight the rejecting mainstream is far from uncommon.

"Fascism is the state. Liberalism is the individual." ~ Mussolini

[OnlinePoker]

35. Of course it was on Fox

And the fake concern for Nader saying it.

[tishaLA]

65. holy shit. I'd never seen that before

He's awful. But I doubt the interviewer, Shap Smith, was exhibiting "fake concern." Mr Smith was maybe the only respectable FNC host

[blm]

16. 1973 Nader was spot on. 25 years later he was getting weird.

Now he comes off as plain old bitter.

Pretty sure the Nader references used were from 1973 and, therefore, not directed at Biden who had only just begun his senate career, but, we’re offered as an explanation at the time of how Delaware is used by the financial industry.

[TwilightZone]

23. Nader has been taking shots at Biden for months.

He went on RT earlier in the year and called Biden "Hillary Clinton redux".

Late last year, he blamed the Obama administration for Trump.

[blm]

25. Agree that he's a douche now, but, in 73 he was spot on.

This article quotes Nader explaining Delaware back in 73, not anything about Biden.

[question everything]

43. Why can't he just keep quiet?

Like Ann Coulter - they have to make noise to be noted

[LisaM]

27. He ran on the Green ticket against Al Gore!

I still can't believe I know people who voted for him in 2000 and defend it to this day, as the poles melt and the wastelands grow.

[Hortensis]

49. Studies and interviews show that many are the very same people

then and now, and others are the same kind of people, who are currently also threatening to vote against Democrats if their chosen leader isn't the nominee. Deja vu all over again.

After all, there's very little difference between Democrats and Republicans. Sarcasm from me, but simple truth for them. There's also more than a little spite involved.

[question everything]

56. I hope that the ones who threaten to hold their votes will read "Supreme Ambition"

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212748557

[Hortensis]

58. I want to read it. But it's not ignorance that causes

some who won't vote Democrat to so adamantly insist there's no significant difference between conservative Pubs and liberal Dems. That kind of irrationality just increases as campaign passions and frustrations grow, and offering honest information, which has always been rejected or mal-interpreted, won't change their viewpoints. It's a personality thing, not intellectual.

Fortunately, this election their behaviors of the last one are their own, far better known baggage, not the kind of fake stuff they helped the Republicans and Russia create and haul wherever Hillary went.

[Autumn]

3. As a Biden defender told me when I complained about a hit job on Bernie by a twitter troll

I guarantee you that the GOP would waste no time in using it to their full advantage. This is why vetting is important. Every... EVERY aspect of a candidate's life is fair game. His (or her) interviews, writings, recordings, votes... successes and failures.

I realized she was 100% correct. Vetting is very important, one of the most important things we can do for our democracy.

[sheshe2]

10. Sourced from Ralphie.

Next thing we will see Jill chiming in.

I believe in vetting, yet not from these sources.

[Autumn]

41. Was the piece a lie? Because from what I remember it seemed to be legit and verifiable.

And I googled a couple of thing from it and sure enough. They were true.

[Me.]

5. I Think You POsted The Relevant Word

Desperate

[crazytown]

6. "A Biden hit piece sourced by Ralph Nader"

mischaracterizes a long and thoughtful analysis by Tim Murphy.

[highplainsdem]

7. I think the word "desperate" in your OP explains what's going on.

[Thekaspervote]

8. Sanders supporters are either feeling very desperate, or sirota or cusack called

Biden bashing has been non stop the past 2 days.

Seems they think they are changing the minds of voters ... they aren’t

[sheshe2]

15. "Seems they think they are changing the minds of voters ... they aren't"

Actually they are. The more I hear the more he becomes a very clear second choice for me. Warren is my first choice and will wait the outcome of Super Tuesday.

I want to win the White House.

[Cha]

19. "Changed your mind" in a good way, she!

[TwilightZone]

9. Spamming the board is kind of their thing. Any port in a storm.

In fairness, it's just a couple of posters, but they post the same stories multiple times rather often, particularly if it puts one of their candidate's opponents in a negative light.

[Cha]

12. Yeah, it's like they have no confidence

that one OP won't do the trick.. news flash.. neither do multiples.

Keeps my trashcan full.

[SidDithers]

68. +1...

at least we're not getting RANDOM capitalization in THREAD titles anymore.

Sid

[beachbumbob]

11. Sounds like the Russian bots gearing up doesn't it

[Gothmog]

13. Who cares what Ralph Nader thinks about anything?

[Prosper]

20. Give Ralph Nader credit for 'Unsafe at Any Speed,' and blame for Gore 2000

[Cha]

24. Yeah, deny the reality of Nader's damn stupid Lies..

Relentless Harping that bush and Gore were the same.. "TweedleDee & TweedleDum.

[Hortensis]

50. No, "scorpion" personalities are real. Yes, credit for Unsafe

long ago, but ZERO respect for the poison he can't control, now OR then, that defeats his own claimed principles. "Because it's my nature. You knew what I was."

Then and now, either conservative Republicans or liberal Democratss will dominate government. That's reality. Those who claim to be progressive but insist it doesn't matter which of the two parties win are betraying progressivism itself to today's anti-progressive Republicans. Doesn't matter whether it's out of delusion or spite, or both. Only the vote itself matters.

[Gothmog]

61. Nader was Rove's puppet

I will never forgive nader Rove funded Nader in 2000 and 2004 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-zuesse/ralph-nader-was-indispens_b_4235065.html

Furthermore, Karl Rove and the Republican Party knew this, and so they nurtured and crucially assisted Nader’s campaigns, both in 2000 and in 2004. On 27 October 2000, the AP’s Laura Meckler headlined “GOP Group To Air Pro-Nader TV Ads.” She opened: “Hoping to boost Ralph Nader in states where he is threatening to hurt Al Gore, a Republican group is launching TV ads featuring Nader attacking the vice president [Mr. Gore]. ... ‘Al Gore is suffering from election year delusion if he thinks his record on the environment is anything to be proud of,’ Nader says [in the commercial]. An announcer interjects: ‘What’s Al Gore’s real record?’ Nader says: ‘Eight years of principles betrayed and promises broken.’” Meckler’s report continued: “A spokeswoman for the Green Party nominee said that his campaign had no control over what other organizations do with Nader’s speeches.” Bush’s people - the group sponsoring this particular ad happened to be the Republican Leadership Council - knew exactly what they were doing, even though the liberal suckers who voted so carelessly for Ralph Nader obviously did not. Anyone who drives a car the way those liberal fools voted, faces charges of criminal negligence, at the very least. But this time, the entire nation crashed as a result; not merely a single car.....

On July 9th, the San Francisco Chronicle headlined “GOP Doners Funding Nader: Bush Supporters Give Independent’s Bid a Financial Lift,” and reported that the Nader campaign “has received a recent windfall of contributions from deep-pocketed Republicans with a history of big contributions to the party,” according to “an analysis of federal records.” Perhaps these contributors were Ambassador Egan’s other friends. Mr. Egan’s wife was now listed among the Nader contributors. Another listed was “Nijad Fares, a Houston businessman, who donated $200,000 to the Bush inaugural committee and who donated $2,000 each to the Nader effort and the Bush campaign this year.” Furthermore, Ari Berman reported 7 October 2004 at the Nation, under “Swift Boat Veterans for Nader,” that some major right-wing funders of a Republican smear campaign against Senator John Kerry’s Vietnam service contributed also $13,500 to the Nader campaign, and that “the Republican Party of Michigan gathered ninety percent of Nader’s signatures in their state” (90%!) to place Nader on the ballot so Bush could win that swing state’s 17 electoral votes. Clearly, the word had gone out to Bush’s big contributors: Help Ralphie boy! In fact, on 15 September 2005, John DiStaso of the Manchester Union-Leader, reported that, “A year ago, as the Presidential general election campaign raged in battleground state New Hampshire, consumer advocate Ralph Nader found his way onto the ballot, with the help of veteran Republican strategist David Carney and the Carney-owned Norway Hill Associates consulting firm.”

It was obvious, based upon the 2000 election results, that a dollar contributed to Nader in the 2004 contest would probably be a more effective way to achieve a Bush win against Kerry in the U.S. Presidential election than were perhaps even ten dollars contributed to Bush. This was a way of peeling crucial votes off from Bush’s real opponent - votes that otherwise would have gone to the Democrat. That’s why the smartest Republican money in the 2004 Presidential election was actually going to Nader, even more so than to Bush himself: these indirect Bush contributions provided by far the biggest bang for the right-wing buck.

[question everything]

64. Never knew this

Since the 80s I knew that it was all about the Supreme Court. Why Democrats keep voting for a losing proposition or staying home; even voting for Trump is beyond me.

[BannonsLiver]

21. Going on 20 years of zero shits given from me with regard to what Ralph says.

And when his demise finally comes, probably at the age of 130 or thereabouts, I will mark it in the same way I will mark McTurtle’s, should I be fortunate enough to see it.

[blm]

17. I missed the Nader as source part, can you point it out?

[question everything]

18. Here

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2019/11/biden-bankruptcy-president/

In early 1973, as Joe Biden was settling into his new job in Washington, DC, Ralph Nader published a deconstruction of what made the freshman Democratic senator’s state of Delaware, the most anodyne of states, so exceptional. The answer, The Company State explained, had to do with the unique relationship between government and commerce: Delaware was less a democracy than a fiefdom, contorting its laws to meet the demands of its corporate lords.

And do notice, that we are talking 1973!

[blm]

22. Nader was doing good in 73. He was explaining how Delaware became

a hub for financial industry. He wasn’t saying anything about Biden. Biden had only just taken his senate seat.

Not understanding why you said the article’s source is Nader when it only mentions that Nader had published an article in 1973 about Delaware’s relationship with the banking industry.

[question everything]

26. Because the story starts by tying both names together

Many people do not read whole articles but the first two paragraphs.

[blm]

30. At DU? This article is NOT sourced by Nader.

Last edited Tue Dec 3, 2019, 01:00 AM - Edit history (1)

Why pretend it is? The first 2 paragraphs just quote Nader on Delaware in 1973 and there is nothing that refers to Biden.

Just not getting why anyone at DU would describe the article so inaccurately to make it sound like Nader was the source of the information contained. Especially Nader c1973 writing about the financial industry in Delaware.

Pretty sure most DUers actually READ articles and would notice that your post was extremely inaccurate.

[sweetloukillbot]

38. Nader was quoted...

Therefore Nader is a SOURCE.

[blm]

39. A 1973 quote about bank industry in Delaware.

But, you are all aware of that by now.

[sweetloukillbot]

44. It's still a source. Your point?

[blm]

45. Not a source for the information in article that tracks votes and

actions by Biden that concern those camps fighting for or against.

Congressional record, NYT, Guardian, et al....now THOSE are sources. A 1973 quote about Delaware the state from Nader being highlighted in OP as the source of the article? Would you bet a mortgage payment on that? 😉

[sweetloukillbot]

46. Apparently you don't know what a source is

He’s quoted. He’s a source. That’s the definition of source. It may not be the main source, but it’s a source. But go ahead and die on your hill over it. Arguing over a racist Isn’t worth my time.

[blm]

47. From 1973. He isn't a source for the info on Biden's record

that is the focus of the article. He wasn’t quoted about Biden’s record. If they quoted Henry Ford it wouldn’t make Ford a source for the information on Biden contained in the article.

Nader is a major douche, but, that doesn’t excuse the OP’s inaccurate portrayal of the article and using Nader’s deserved unpopularity as the reason people should not take the article seriously.

Truth matters.

[ChubbyStar]

32. That is fucking weak

You know it.

[progressoid]

28. Sourced by Ralph Nader?

I see it referencing Ralph Nader's description of Delaware's powerful businesses.
But the article sources the NYT, The Guardian, The Economist, Huffpo, WaPo, etc.

[ChubbyStar]

29. Ah shit they are trying really hard

Weird

[myohmy2]

33. "Do the Sanders supporters know something that the rest of us don't?"

...we sure do...Bernie's going to win this thing...

...trying to tie Bernie or his supporters by association to some questionable ancient history is not going to work...

...what would work though would be to find a better candidate with better ideas than Bernie...

...everyone I know says it can't be done...

[emmaverybo]

51. Biden is more job-specific qualified and experienced. His ideas make sense and are doable. His pre-

School through 12 ideas I do not see Bernie espousing. And Biden has foreign policy experience and knowledge Bernie lacks. Biden was V.P, so very close to the presidency, and he passed gun control legislation, and legislation to protect women. I feel like Bernie needs more legislative accomplishment.

Bernie is committed to his ideas. He is a strong progressive leader. He has made a great come-back from his health scare and I think he is doing quite well, but many of us could argue about whether he is the best candidate.

If he wins, I will vote for him no matter what. I hope if he is not the nominee, he will bow out gracefully.

[floppyboo]

55. Do you really want to bring up Biden's foreign policy experience?

I'm not sure facilitating the sale of German supplied arms to Al Nusra at a Jordanian black market bazaar is going to work very well.

[emmaverybo]

59. Well, you should prove this. I trust what Joe did under Obama was right to do. I am quite sure

Biden never acted independently. If he did and you have a credible source, and documentation, you should provide it.

[floppyboo]

60. I'm sure he wasn't acting independantly.

I'm not going to provide links for this - not going to give hits to links that could hurt - especially tagged on this forum. Not quite sure how algorithms work, but seems DU comes up in the top 5 google links for every controversial thing. So do it yourself. Check CIA Biden Jordan weapons etc.

[emmaverybo]

66. Actually, it does not come up. What comes up is a) debunked garbage about secret program

fostered by Obama—debunked by Snopes b) speculative stuff c) unintentional effects. Guns getting in to the wrong hands. I am not going into all of it. You are implicating Obama.

Maybe you don’t mean to. But Biden did not have some independent deal with the CIA to arm terrorists. This whole line has been debunked.

[Joe941]

34. There has been 10 hit pieces on Bernie for ever one on biden.

That's what we know.

[LiberalLovinLug]

37. At the very least

Too many still afraid of change. Or even fighting for change, in case we lose. I say if we nominate Bernie, but still lose, say, on Medicare for All in a full single payer model. If enough Republicans and Democrats block it. . But if there's at least a first battle, the public is made more aware of the possibilities, and the savings etc.

[LanternWaste]

40. That's the same allegation I'd make too...

were I full of malarkey.

And like you, I'd dramatically fail to provide any evidence to support that ratio (otherwise, it couldn't fit on a bumper sticker).

[Gothmog]

36. Here are some fun facts

Link to tweet

[MineralMan]

42. Looks like the primary season is settling down for the long haul.

Folks are finally paying attention to it, a little at least. And, as they do, more and more sensible voters are weighing in. Sensible voters like Joe Biden pretty well. He's the sensible candidate for 2020. He can, and will, beat Trump like a drum.

As more and more primary candidates drop out of the race, Biden's polling will continue to rise.

[emmaverybo]

52. Wow! My 24 dollar contributions are working, LOL. Thrilled, Goth.

[MineralMan]

62. No, but they sometimes think they do.

[Lordquinton]

63. Maybe they know the whole Nader thing in 2000 isn't true

Gore won, flat out. Nader didn't generate enough of a swing to tilt it, and his efforts got more people involved in general.

The supreme Court appointed bush president. To say anything different excuses what actually happened.

[MH1]

67. Nader: "Not a dime's worth of difference" between the 2 parties.

Fuck Nader.

(from an early Nader supporter. Until he came out with that. I'm not a fucking idiot and don't like being treated like one.)