This is not, in any way, a good thing

[mcar]

Link to tweet

?s=19


Charles P. Pierce
✔
@CharlesPPierce
As of the moment, there are no people of color in this month’s Democratic debate. This is not in any way a good thing.

530
1:14 PM - Dec 3, 2019

[msongs]

1. harris was not included in dec. debate? nt

[WhiskeyGrinder]

3. She qualified, but she's dropped out.

[ismnotwasm]

2. Yeah I'm pissed

Not surprised, but pissed.

[mcar]

5. I am angry, ism

Just saw that Steyer has qualified, again. Seems the rich white men can get into the race late and buy their way up, while the far more qualified POC get nowhere.

[ismnotwasm]

10. I feel you

That’s WHY I’m pissed. I don’t have the energy to argue with people who won’t factor in race and gender unless it’s their outrage de jour.


Race and gender are always factors.

[MerryBlooms]

14. You said it! So disappointed and ticked off.

[sheshe2]

81. I hear ya, mcar.

[myohmy2]

112. it's sad...

...that money plays such a large part in our elections...

...but like everything else in our country, money always plays a dominant role and people with it get their way...

...we may rue the day we factor money into so many of the decisions we make as a society...

...may people like Bernie help change this...

[stonecutter357]

4. why did Kamala Harris drop out ?

[ismnotwasm]

6. Not enough funding

[mcar]

11. Here's her notice on medium - money, of course

https://medium.com/@KamalaHarris/i-am-suspending-my-campaign-today-6dca8cefb252

My campaign for president simply doesn’t have the financial resources we need to continue.

I’m not a billionaire. I can’t fund my own campaign. And as the campaign has gone on, it’s become harder and harder to raise the money we need to compete.

In good faith, I can’t tell you, my supporters and volunteers, that I have a path forward if I don’t believe I do.

So, to you my supporters, it is with deep regret — but also with deep gratitude — that I am suspending my campaign today.

[Demsrule86]

12. She was not going to win the nomination so why continue...others should follow her

example.

[IluvPitties]

16. Exactly. The race is, in reality, down to 4.

Biden, Warren, Sanders and Buttigieg.

[Indykatie]

8. Starting Our Primaries in IA and NH is Responsible For Some Of This

It's unfair to the base of the party to continue with the current primary calendar which starts in 2 states that are 90% White.

[mcar]

13. This is true

Also holding women to a higher standard than male candidates.

I find it odd, to say the least, the brouhaha over a Harris staffer leaving when campaign staffers leave other campaigns all the time and it barely gets mentioned. Funny, isn't it, how that staffer who published her bitter, blistering letter, got all that attention on her way to work for Bloomberg?

[madville]

50. She was performing poorly everywhere else though

She was polling 4th in her home state and at or below that in S.C.

People everywhere just didn’t like her candidacy, regardless of race, sex, etc.

[RhodeIslandOne]

66. And an old white man is pulling over 50% with African American voters

So there’s a few things that really weren’t going well for Harris and it wasn’t Iowa or New Hampshire ( which by the way, some guy named Barack had no problem using to his advantage).

[squirecam]

90. Yes

Obama won AA voters.....after he won white Iowa.

Harris was down nationally. It wasn’t like she had states where she was winning, as opposed to Biden, who has NV and SC to rely on.

[Amimnoch]

9. Heh, and I'm really wishing it was already narrowed down to 1 person..

Incumbent election year.
Economy has managed to survive Trump so far thanks to President Obama.
No real Republican primary.
No 3rd party effect on Trump.

Not the best year to have such a large and contentious primary. The sooner we're down to 1, and can ramp up the fight against Cheeto the better.

[squirecam]

91. Ok

But not him. ^

[Retrograde]

15. Booker's not in it?

He’s in my top tier

[DrToast]

18. His polls don't make the cut

He’s qualified based on donor threshold.

[Demsrule86]

19. There are four candidates who theoretically could win...Biden, Sanders, Warren

and Buttigeig. Personally, I think Biden is the nominee by super Tuesday. Candidates other than these four should drop out.

[DrToast]

17. Yang and Gabbard will qualify

[mcar]

20. HRC speaks

Link to tweet

?s=19


Hillary Clinton
✔
@HillaryClinton
To all the candidates, staff, and volunteers who have worked their hearts out for presidential campaigns that have ended—remember that fighting for what you believe in is always worth it.

[Cha]

77. Excellent inspiring tweet from Hillary!

Thank you, mcar Sorry, about Kamala dropping out.

[mcar]

78. Thanks Cha

A bit of a shock and I'm very disappointed. We still have a number of good candidates for whom I will happily volunteer in the GE.

[Cha]

80. I know.. and I know how it feels..

[TCJ70]

21. Only if you think there HAS to be a person of color on the stage.

Which to that my question would be: who cares? Have good ideas that appeal to a good number of Americans and you'll most likely make it to the debates. If someone got their ideas out there first or got their supporters together more quickly/efficiently, that's how it goes.

[mcar]

22. ...

[ismnotwasm]

23. Who cares? Whoa..

Holy Fucking Shit.

[TCJ70]

24. Yes...who cares? What matters more: how someone looks or their ideas? n/t

[ismnotwasm]

30. Sweet Jesus

I can’t even.

[TCJ70]

32. Obviously. n/t

[ismnotwasm]

42. Oh my.

You got me.


Perhaps you should use an MLK quote as well.

[TCJ70]

49. I could...but given your response to them below...

...I'm not sure what value you place on them.

[ismnotwasm]

61. Always depends on the source and context

Quotes from warriors are valuable, but it’s disingenuous to use that particular one when the argument is literally saying, “The color of the skin doesn’t matter, only the content of character”. That particular quote was from a man with a dream of that happening. Someday. It didn’t happen in his lifetime, because he was murdered fighting for his dream

You clearly believe that we have reached that point. Racism either doesn’t exist, or doesn’t influence thoughts and decisions and institutions enough for it to be a factor anymore.

You and I, literally have nothing in common on this topic.

[TCJ70]

63. I don't think we've reached that point as a society...

...but we can each reach that point individually.

[ismnotwasm]

67. That's how life works for you huh?

Good for you.

[squirecam]

92. I'm sorry

Was our last president not a black man? And our last nominee a white woman?

Life isn’t perfect. There are still issues. But Harris didn’t drop out due to racism or sexism. She lost on her own merit. Get out of here with that BS.

[SaschaHM]

35. This is funny.

Someone supporting Elizabeth "I just took a DNA Test" Warren would spend time diminishing lived experiences as "looks" to prop up "ideas".

[mr_lebowski]

36. Maybe it's not THAT foreign an idea ... I would submit that

It takes putting oneself in a particular mindset ... one in which we don't see people in terms of the color of their skin.

But rather, what one is judged by ... is the content of their character.

You can at least imagine having that mindset, I would guess?

I suspect at least ... that is what the poster you're responding to is alluding to. FWIW.

[ismnotwasm]

40. Honey, don't use quotes from a murdered black man to try and erase racism

It’s a bad look.

[tishaLA]

45. +1000

[mr_lebowski]

48. Oh, so Kamala is no longer in the race because 'racism' and no other explanation is possible?

I guess 2008 and 2012 never happened.

[ismnotwasm]

62. Not what I said.

[mcar]

54. Boom!

[crazytown]

82. +!

Yes.

[Codeine]

33. I am the whitest guy on the forum

and that shit just made ME cringe. Goddamn.

[TCJ70]

34. The majority of presidential elections I've been eligible to vote for...

...have had Democratic nominees who weren't like me. I voted for them anyway. If I can do it, so can everyone else.

[mr_lebowski]

53. Agree ... eyes on the prize here ...

We don't need to give the media an anti-Democrat talking point to harp about for days on end. ZOMG WHAT HAPPENED TO THE PARTY OF OBAMA?!?

Not helpful.

If enough PoC's had united behind a PoC candidate, even if it was JUST THEM ... that candidate would still in the race. They'd have the money, they'd have the polls. The candidates are being decided on merits, as best it's possible under our system.

It's unfortunate, I'd dig it if every candidate was a Nigerian-Born Gay Trans Female Refugee Muslim Vegan who spoke Swahili and 20 other languages ... as long as they had the money and the polls needed to continue.

But that's not the situation, at least not at the moment.

Maybe without Harris in the race, folks will coalesce around Booker?

I hope so, he's one of my favorites, easily.

[ismnotwasm]

70. Dude I mean...

“Nigerian-Born Gay Trans Female Refugee Muslim Vegan”

What the actual fuck

[mr_lebowski]

100. Seems you want to take everything I say in the worst possible way ...

I'm saying I PERSONALLY would completely support and indeed love ... an incredible diversity in our choices in the folks our party puts forward. So I went over the top to attempt to make this point, which would've thought to be obvious, but ...

Unfortunately there are certain realities that come into play. Money. Polls. The agreed-upon rules of the Party to decide who makes the debates.

Not everything comes down to racism. Kamala wasn't really even popular with PoC, she didn't catch fire or capture imaginations. It happens. It's not cause she's dark-skinned, or it's very little of the equation.

Look, I'm from teh Bay Area, born in Oakland, I've been to SF 1000 times probably, used to work there ... twice. I like Kamala, I've known who she is for quite some time. I wanted her voice in this contest and I'd have been happy to vote for her.

She didn't make it. It's unfortunate. I say we don't let our party be divided over it. Maybe Booker will pick up enough of the support she had to continue?

[cwydro]

115. Good lord. No shit.

Yikes.

[mcar]

52. Are you seriously suggesting that only the white people have good ideas?

[TCJ70]

56. No. That wouldn't make sense as we've already nominated and elected Obama twice. n/t

[mcar]

59. Huh?

So all the candidates of color this time are just no good, have no good ideas? But the white candidates all have good ideas, thus they are on the debate stage?

What are Steyer's good ideas? How do they compare to Harris's?

[TCJ70]

64. "Good ideas" is a relative term...

...the definition of which depends on who you're talking to. If Harris wasn't able to adequately get her ideas out there and build up the financial and polling support needed to stay in the race, that's how it goes. I think you're getting hung up on a term that really shouldn't be the focal point of the post.

[spicysista]

75. I don't think you mean to convey...

...the insensitivity that is coming across in your post. "Have good ideas that appeal to a good number of Americans" is a part of the problem. Whom, exactly, comprises these "good number of Americans"? The answer to that can be very different depending on the room. In Iowa, it's going to look a certain way. At the "She The People" forum, it's going to look another way.
If the press and the pollsters focus heavily on places that look like Iowa, a particular narrative will form. This will push the priorities of campagins, press coverage, and pollsters to reinforce that narrative formed by and for people who look like those in Iowa.
If you have a moment, check out these video clips. It may help you to see why you sound a bit tone deaf to some.

[TCJ70]

109. Harris dropped out due to insufficient campaign finances. Also, I think people are getting...

...hung up on the "good ideas" portion of my post. That isn't to say she didn't have good ideas (which is a relative term depending on who you're talking to). It's that others were able to get those ideas out there in apparently a better/more efficient way which helped them better fund their campaigns into the future.

The majority of the presidential campaigns I've been eligible to vote in have had Democratic nominees who don't match my demographics. I voted for them anyway. If I can do it, so can everyone else.

[Kurt V.]

83. There are systemic issues at play also. not just merit. That's why I'm not happy about this.

[blm]

101. Well THAT was kind of abrupt and insensitive.

This exit hurts. If you can’t feel it yourself then at least respect the feelings of those who do.

[loyalsister]

103. I care

Reverting to white supremacy is a problem to me. Kamala Harris and Joe Biden have similar problems with having close ties to our racist criminal justice system. I think more people are more forgiving of Biden, and it has everything to do with the fact that he is white.

[TCJ70]

110. Harris being out "reverting to white supremacy"? OK. n/t

[Skya Rhen]

25. I'm glad that the preferred choice of the majority of AAs is still standing and that our voices

actually matter - that we actually have a say...

[ismnotwasm]

43. There is that

Biden is polling high among Black men especially.

[Tarheel_Dem]

107. Thank you Skya. Everyone keeps pointing to Obama in IA, and how black people came around...

after his win, but AFAIC, there's no Obama in this election cycle. I can't speak for other POC, but I'm sorry, I wasn't feeling Kamala after she went after Biden in that debate. And I've never felt Cory Booker, and still don't.

[treestar]

26. there wasn't last time though

older white women and old white man and that was it.

We don't want to make it all about that because that plays into the right wing arguments. The Presidency isn't the only office in the world.

[mr_lebowski]

47. Agreed ... last thing we need is a day of hand-wringing across the media ...

ZOMG LOOK TEH PARTY OF OBAMA HAS NO POC CANDIDATES!

I know! Let's present an endless litany of upset pundits bashing the Democratic Party? Someone call Sharpton & Jesse, lets get them on!

That would NOT be helpful.

It's unfortunate, but none of the PoC's actually captured the imagination of Voters of Color ... or enough of anyone else. They didn't have the polls, they didn't have the money, to continue. It's not BECAUSE they were PoC's, I do not believe. Not in our Party.

All one needs do is look at 2008 and 2012 to confirm this, IMHO.

I think if Stacey Abrams had jumped in the Race ... she might VERY well still be in it. But she didn't.

JMHO.

[Salviati]

65. Agreed. We shouldn't feed the media driven Democratic party bashing narrative

[LenaBaby61]

27. Not shocked ....

[getagrip_already]

28. deval patrick just got in... no chance to qualify, but he is in the race..... nt

[mcar]

29. He will not be on the December debate stage

which is the point of the OP.

[getagrip_already]

31. yup, just pointing out he is in the race...

he got in too late to qualify. Bloomberg did also, plus he isn't collecting contributions so he won't be in any debates; but that is his plan anyway.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

41. Kamala qualified for the debate. Why drop out now?

[mcar]

55. ...

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=366146

[ritapria]

37. The voters have decided to whittle the race to a Final Four

Biden , Buttigieg , Bernie and Warren …….I'd like to see the next debate limited to these 4 Semi- finalists ..It would be great service to the American people to hear them have a serious discussion of the great issues confronting the nation - and the world …… The other candidates simply have little or no chance of being our nominee ….. They have been given ample opportunity tp make their case to the voters ….

[tishaLA]

46. Thus far there have been no voters for 2020

So they haven't whittled it down to anything.

[underthematrix]

38. I understand but here's the thing as Monk would say

Link to tweet

[tritsofme]

39. So what exactly is the ask here, tokenism?

Candidates that did not reach the ridiculously broad standards for inclusion cannot participate, there is no racial animus.

[DrToast]

51. Harris should be forced to participate!

[mcar]

58. Lots to blame

Media coverage of the primaries solely as a horse race; media holding women and candidates of color to a higher standard (over-accentuating their mistakes, ignoring their policies - just like they did with HRC); the money required to successfully run a campaign; the entrance of two white, male billionaires who are blanketing the airwaves with ads; first voting in predominantly white states.

Voters haven't had a chance to vote yet.

[BannonsLiver]

84. And which of those things is the fault of the party, as Pierce insinuates?

I'm not sure how you go about making people vote for candidates they are otherwise not inclined to vote for. For example, if someone likes Warren, they're going to vote for her, they're not going to decide to vote for Harris because they think the debate stage is too white. The media's problems and biases, which I agree are real, are of their own making, not that party's. I guess you have a point with IA and NH, but both state legislatures and assemblies have made it clear they will keep those positions on the calendar by any means necessary.

[mcar]

86. When did voting start?

[Algernon Moncrieff]

57. So Yang isn't a person of color, or is he not in the debate?

[mcar]

60. He has not yet qualified for the December debate

[Algernon Moncrieff]

68. Thanks.

I was under the mistaken impression that he had qualified.

[mcar]

73. He still has a bit of time to do so, IIRC

[Bernardo de La Paz]

69. There were real people of colour in the RepubliCON debates? Not cardboard cutouts?

[Mr.Bill]

72. There was Ben Carson,

but I think he slept through most of it.

[demmiblue]

71. There are some fucked up comments on this thread. That is all. n/t

[mcar]

87. It's discouraging

[BeyondGeography]

74. We're taking a major perspective hit. This was one of the best moments in all of the debates IMO

It’s the bottom clip after tweeting out the ammunition.

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[mcar]

76. She is brilliant, and a fighter, and had great ideas and plans

[evertonfc]

79. old and white.

not the idea in had 24 months ago. Our last the nominees that won a GE were under 54.

[Polybius]

104. "Our last the nominees that won a GE were under 54"

Then it's time to change that. Republicans have proved that it's possible to win with old candidates like Reagan, Poppy Bush, and Trump, but also have lost (Dole, McCain). They seem to nominate older folks much more frequently than we do.

Besides Hillary, when it the last 75 years or so have we nominated someone over 65? We almost never nominate older candidates.

[ancianita]

85. To Charles Pierce: Like it or not, it's not, as of the moment, in any way a bad thing, either.

[mcar]

88. I disagree

It's nearly 2020. The base of our party is people, primarily women, of color. We have several highly qualified POCs as candidates. Now, one has dropped out, apparently solely because of money. Two others don't qualify for the debate stage. But, a white male billionaire who got into the race late has.

I hope the DNC is learning from this re setting up debates. I have no hope that the media will ever learn anything WRT covering campaigns.

[ancianita]

94. I hear you, I do. Everything you say makes sense. But we here need to make clearer sense of the

people supporting the rest of the candidates, rather than think it's solely a party problem.

I could have railed about debate structure, the makeup of the party, how not enough of the "right" candidates win on the merits and what's wrong with unqualified people making it to the stage while mine didn't. Or my second or third choice candidate didn't.

But at some point I also know that primaries whittle down the candidates. Mine and everyone else's.

It's NOT the whole party's problem every time a popular candidate gets whittled down for whatever reason.

Venting that "the party is the problem" just hands more ammunition to our opponents.

It's just not always about some shared fatal flaw of the party or party members. Because that's the implication here, which is neither logical nor fair. The other threads that bemoan realities of the party primaries are keeping up the same framing of our party.

There's more to any candidate's race or public electability that keeps them in or out, and we should acknowledge that. A big tent party has to stop the press for uniform outlooks on what the party "needs," and acknowledge that there are more in-house realities that each candidate faces, that we can't possibly know, that contribute to their decision to leave the primaries.

Everyone who is a Democrat must keep front and center that we have to win. We have to win. Not shoot ourselves in the foot by convention time, every presidential election cycle.

[flibbitygiblets]

89. This thread is depressing on so many levels

For now, the only thing to do is support whomever wins the Democratic nomination.

And as someone said higher in the thread, we have a lot of changes to make so that women and POC are not shut out by majority white primary voting schedule (Iowa and NH get to go first for what reason again?).

[squirecam]

93. Um...

Our last three nominees were minorities.

Harris failed to catch on. It wasn’t racism or sexism.

Obama won AA voters AFTER he won white Iowa.

Let’s stop with this crap.

[killaphill]

108. Hillary Clinton is a minority?

n/t

[squirecam]

113. Yes

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/are-women-minorities_b_595a91a0e4b0f078efd98be3

[killaphill]

114. Jews are also a minority

Members of the LGBTQ community are also a minority.

Therefore, apparently 75% of the top tier of Democratic candidates are currently minorities.

[squirecam]

116. Correct

And the 4th has the majority of AA support.

[ancianita]

95. What might those changes be. Who in the party is supposed to make them. That can be the party

discussion after we win. It's nearing time to present "the package" to the country.

Right now we're headed to the primary schedule that's set, and we need to see how the rest of the nation thinks about the candidates that make it to Super Tuesday. Save for those buying their way in, they're all strong, moral, experienced leaders.

The most constructive thing we here can do is watch what the public, through polls, votes, donations, etc. and not show internal turmoil that can arm our opponents' propaganda machine.

We have done a lot to be proud of historically. We need to start acting like the public should remember from now until Nov 2020, just what all that really is.

[totodeinhere]

98. It's only because of tradition.

But the problem is finding a way to change it. The same people who would need to step forward to change it are out there right now working their asses off to ingratiate themselves to those same people in those mostly white states.

[KayF]

96. she had very low support among black voters

I'm not a fan of this tweet by Pierce. I think a lot of people are asking good questions in response, in this thread on DU and in the twitter thread.

[obliviously]

97. Seriously, pigmentation should be the deciding factor?

[jalan48]

99. I'm bummed to see Kamala drop out. Hopefully she will come back strong in 2024.

[dflprincess]

102. Hopefully we will have an incumbant in 2024. nt

[jalan48]

105. Good point. Make that 2028

[stopdiggin]

106. the optics are not good. but why is the party at fault?

People keep pointing to IA and NH, but that is not something that the party engineered. As has been explained many times, the early dates are a result of the state's machinations, not the party's. And, as has also been pointed out numerous times, the first two states are hardly the whole ballgame -- and everybody that's in the contest is fully aware of that. SC and NV have much great representation of minorities, and you can be sure that the pollsters and professionals are paying close attention to that as well.

But the truth of the matter lies in that the party can't (and shouldn't) force people to vote for (or support or fund) candidates that they are not interested in. And, sadly -- Harris is/was not polling well in ANY state -- and THAT, rather than IA and NH exclusively, was the whole ball of wax. And I don't know what "the party" could (or should) do to "fix" that.

I'm open to ideas -- but I think it is a mistake for the party to be taking a pounding over what ultimately appears to be the will of the voters.

[mcar]

111. Oh, has voting started?

I must have missed that.

[stopdiggin]

117. there has been non-stop polling for close to a year

both nationally and state by state for those that are paying attention (like Democratic Primaries Forum). You thought these numbers were generated by Ouija boards? Your snark isn't relevant, or even particularly clever.
-

[LongtimeAZDem]

118. Fourteen people have dropped out of the Democratic race; all but two are white, all but two are men

[brooklynite]

119. Would it be a bad thing if she dropped out after being in the last four? The last two?

Should we artificially keep her in the race?