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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
 

LiberalLovinLug

(14,187 posts)
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 04:52 PM Dec 2019

CNN Surprised To Find Bernie Support In Kentucky




I think people are underestimating the grass root support, cross platform, for Sanders. Even in the Red States.
He is waaaaaaay ahead of other candidates by a million + in donations from individuals. I don't care what the polls say. I'd like to see either Warren or Sanders win, but Sanders has more experience, and has the largest base to work with.

This video shows that many in the Red States are dissatisfied with Trump and Mitch etc..but they feel, warranted or not, that Biden is a part of that same Washington establishment that wouldn't help them much either. That may be a twisted way to look at it, but isn't winning the ultimate goal?

Sanders would humiliate Trump in the votes in 2020, if he was our nominee. Because he'd (hopefully) have 100% support from the "vote blue no matter who" Democratic voters, but he also would scoop up a lot of independents, and Never Trumpers that would put him over the top. Way over IMO.

While when Bernie dares to criticize some unhelpful stance or compromise from the Democratic party, it is NOT hurting the party's chances, it is improving them. Whether you agree or disagree with some criticisms or another, it will gain way more voters respect, across all platforms, than convince a traditional Democratic voter to stay home or vote for another party.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
104 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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CNN Surprised To Find Bernie Support In Kentucky (Original Post) LiberalLovinLug Dec 2019 OP
CNN surprised to find own head up own butt. A-Schwarzenegger Dec 2019 #1
lol LiberalLovinLug Dec 2019 #2
LMFAO!! InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2019 #26
Seriously!! Bernie has support everywhere!! InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2019 #76
Bernie Wawannabe Dec 2019 #3
Why so excited? LaurenOlimina Dec 2019 #4
Why so sarcastic and rude? Wawannabe Dec 2019 #6
Oh my! demmiblue Dec 2019 #13
You emulate your candidate well. LaurenOlimina Dec 2019 #19
Lack of energy and enthusiasm for Biden (and from him) are much underestimated! I would emmaverybo Dec 2019 #32
As you do a disservice to yours. LanternWaste Dec 2019 #73
sigh LaurenOlimina Dec 2019 #75
!!!!!!!!!!!! InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2019 #77
He can win, and he absolutely deserves it. He's paid his dues for longer than most. LiberalLovinLug Dec 2019 #7
Not! nt Wawannabe Dec 2019 #8
American people deserve a Sanders administration... Wawannabe Dec 2019 #9
I am getting close to a decision. I take it seriously LiberalLovinLug Dec 2019 #10
The poster that you are responding to TexasTowelie Dec 2019 #34
Thanks Texas Towelie for pointing that out. Wawannabe Dec 2019 #37
Yes TT is correct LiberalLovinLug Dec 2019 #47
The article specifically says it would be independents treestar Dec 2019 #59
Independents do not have their own party LiberalLovinLug Dec 2019 #62
The Senate will still be treestar Dec 2019 #69
"He would have to include a lot of those in the administration." Voltaire2 Dec 2019 #68
So, it's "His Turn"? What does has he paid to the Democrats? Ninsianna Dec 2019 #84
He has to earn the votes for it to be His Turn. Give me a reason to vote for him. betsuni Dec 2019 #90
Many see Sanders as what Democrats are supposed to be booley Dec 2019 #14
+1000 LiberalLovinLug Dec 2019 #16
it was spun derisively as "winning the confederacy..." LanternWaste Dec 2019 #74
Not really sure I understand that word salad. booley Dec 2019 #95
WELL SAID!! All Democrats would be smart to emulate Bernie... InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2019 #80
what does that mean? he doesn't deserve it? Actually i know. It's inherent . no its not. Kurt V. Dec 2019 #27
By your logic, it's Biden who can't win the nomination, since he couldn't win it in 1988 AND 2008 InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2019 #28
Look at it this way CozyMystery Dec 2019 #44
Lucky indeed!! Why Bernie is a beloved Democratic icon. InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2019 #83
Kicked and recommended Uncle Joe Dec 2019 #5
so much for the victim status of bernie not getting any media coverage nt msongs Dec 2019 #11
"He's being ERASED!" :eyes: NurseJackie Dec 2019 #12
Well it sounds like Bernie burned a few nerves. JoeOtterbein Dec 2019 #17
I just can't abide by anyone claiming that the Democratic party is ideologically bankrupt... NurseJackie Dec 2019 #21
I feel like failure everyday. JoeOtterbein Dec 2019 #22
How do you feel about the attacks and smears on the Democratic party that I mentioned above? NurseJackie Dec 2019 #23
Not nearly as sorry as I feel for folks without insurance who lose everything... JoeOtterbein Dec 2019 #24
Right on Joe!! Bernie is a hero to those whose lives hang in the balance. InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2019 #30
The lies and smears only benefit the GOP. It weakens the Democratic party by creating division.... NurseJackie Dec 2019 #33
And yet, in all these years, he hasn't legislatively helped any of those.... George II Dec 2019 #38
Please don't include me in your sweeping generalization. TexasTowelie Dec 2019 #43
Those lies and smears generate negativity. Negativity... NurseJackie Dec 2019 #31
Why is this so hard to understand? mcar Dec 2019 #39
It's the trap of the cult of personality... and vanity. NurseJackie Dec 2019 #42
I feel terrible for those people too, all the discussion is about Ninsianna Dec 2019 #85
I think that Bernie burned some bridges along the way also. TexasTowelie Dec 2019 #35
There was also Matt Orfalea and Darius Khalil Gordon. I'll leave it at that. George II Dec 2019 #40
The video is from The Rationa National. lapucelle Dec 2019 #79
And how much time does he get compared to those other four stalwards? LiberalLovinLug Dec 2019 #18
... sheshe2 Dec 2019 #54
The topic was Michael Moore's appearances. Not Sanders. LiberalLovinLug Dec 2019 #63
K n R ! Thanks for posting! nt JoeOtterbein Dec 2019 #15
Kentucky has the correct demographic...nt SidDithers Dec 2019 #20
Bernie has a D next to his name last I checked. Joe941 Dec 2019 #25
Yep. And he is part of the Senate Democratic Leadership Hassin Bin Sober Dec 2019 #29
Do you know what the function of that "leadership" position is? It's essentially a do-nothing job. George II Dec 2019 #41
And for good reason!! InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2019 #81
The last time I checked he still was the independent senator from Vermont TexasTowelie Dec 2019 #36
You haven't check lately then... Joe941 Dec 2019 #45
Bernie also signed a pledge that he wouldn't attack other Democratic candidates TexasTowelie Dec 2019 #48
BS claimed he'd remain a Democrat forever the last time. The Valley Below Dec 2019 #49
Link please Kentonio Dec 2019 #71
"Sanders' campaign says he'll stay a Democrat after election" [2016] The Valley Below Dec 2019 #72
Bernie has to defend himself. He is constantly being attacked from all sides. Joe941 Dec 2019 #55
It's one thing to play defense and I accept that all candidates will have to do that within the TexasTowelie Dec 2019 #56
DU has been telling be that Bernie has been in free fall for months. Joe941 Dec 2019 #58
I don't expect to be voting for him TexasTowelie Dec 2019 #60
Interesting Tiggeroshii Dec 2019 #86
Oh well, my farce was discovered. TexasTowelie Dec 2019 #87
I also found the CNN poll for Texas extremely interesting today. TexasTowelie Dec 2019 #88
. Tiggeroshii Dec 2019 #89
This message was self-deleted by its author MrsCoffee Dec 2019 #70
Attacked how? booley Dec 2019 #64
I can't reply without giving you the opportunity to alert my post. nt TexasTowelie Dec 2019 #67
BOOOOOOOOM!! InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2019 #82
Yes, Bernie is running as a Democrat and will serve as the next Democratic POTUS. InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2019 #46
I wouldn't count on it. The Valley Below Dec 2019 #50
I am... there's no stoppin the unbeatable team of Bernie & Elizabeth!! InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2019 #51
Sanders and Clinton Wabbajack_ Dec 2019 #52
No surprise, he's the hero of the white left, radius777 Dec 2019 #53
+10000000000000000000000 betsuni Dec 2019 #57
Righteous truth right there. BannonsLiver Dec 2019 #61
Since when do only white people care about health care? booley Dec 2019 #65
Sanders is a social libertarian radius777 Dec 2019 #66
The more I read the less I thought you had ever listened to Bernie Sanders booley Dec 2019 #92
The Rational National... lapucelle Dec 2019 #78
Another CNN Surprise corbettkroehler Dec 2019 #91
The Bernie Blackout is very real LiberalLovinLug Dec 2019 #93
Reminds me of the buildup to the Iraq War booley Dec 2019 #94
Good analogy boo LiberalLovinLug Dec 2019 #96
Already setting up the narrative for when Bernie isn't chosen to be the nominee? TexasTowelie Dec 2019 #97
Thanks for your support for Bernie! LiberalLovinLug Dec 2019 #98
Well, TexasTowelie Dec 2019 #99
Yourself and Nurse Jackie are the only two I've seen pull this stunt LiberalLovinLug Dec 2019 #101
You're welcome to do so. TexasTowelie Dec 2019 #102
OMG you"ve revealed the real culprits LiberalLovinLug Dec 2019 #103
Well, what is this all abut? TexasTowelie Dec 2019 #104
BTW. TexasTowelie Dec 2019 #100
 

A-Schwarzenegger

(15,596 posts)
1. CNN surprised to find own head up own butt.
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 04:54 PM
Dec 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,128 posts)
26. LMFAO!!
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 08:29 PM
Dec 2019

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,128 posts)
76. Seriously!! Bernie has support everywhere!!
Thu Dec 12, 2019, 12:02 AM
Dec 2019

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Wawannabe

(5,694 posts)
3. Bernie
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 04:57 PM
Dec 2019

Cannot get the nomination!
He does not deserve it and couldn't win it in 2016. He is an Independent and not a Democratic candidate in my book.
Don’t vote for the Independent!

Go home Bernie!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LaurenOlimina

(1,165 posts)
4. Why so excited?
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 05:09 PM
Dec 2019

Are Biden supporters buying exclamation points by the pound now? Enquiring minds want to know?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Wawannabe

(5,694 posts)
6. Why so sarcastic and rude?
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 05:13 PM
Dec 2019

My messages about Bernie are consistent and I have a voice here same as any person. Biden supporter or not.

Bernie should not be a Democratic candidate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Disclaimer: All exclamation points are free on my iPhone keyboard!!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LaurenOlimina

(1,165 posts)
19. You emulate your candidate well.
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 07:48 PM
Dec 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

emmaverybo

(8,144 posts)
32. Lack of energy and enthusiasm for Biden (and from him) are much underestimated! I would
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 08:48 PM
Dec 2019

proudly emulate him! Going after Trump and liars going after him, Biden, is a service to our country!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
73. As you do a disservice to yours.
Tue Dec 10, 2019, 02:12 PM
Dec 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LaurenOlimina

(1,165 posts)
75. sigh
Wed Dec 11, 2019, 11:31 PM
Dec 2019

"Cannot get the nomination!
He does not deserve it and couldn't win it in 2016. He is an Independent and not a Democratic candidate in my book."

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,128 posts)
77. !!!!!!!!!!!!
Thu Dec 12, 2019, 12:03 AM
Dec 2019

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

LiberalLovinLug

(14,187 posts)
7. He can win, and he absolutely deserves it. He's paid his dues for longer than most.
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 05:14 PM
Dec 2019

More importantly, the American people deserve a Sanders administration. Which would be a Democratic administration, filled with Democrats.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Wawannabe

(5,694 posts)
9. American people deserve a Sanders administration...
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 05:27 PM
Dec 2019

But you are undecided?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LiberalLovinLug

(14,187 posts)
10. I am getting close to a decision. I take it seriously
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 05:42 PM
Dec 2019

I don't rush into that decision lightly. Still a lot of time. I support any candidate that not only identifies as a progressive, but their actions and work support that. That would be Sanders or Warren. I wanted to wait to see just how Warren did in her first foray. And she continues to do well, and continues to impress me.

But yes, if I had to say today, Bernie is my first choice. He has the most donations. (Not the most money) Every other candidate is in the dust on that factor. He's million + ahead of the pack. . That is an important fact. And he continues to do well DESPITE the best efforts of the MSM to either ignore him, or scoff at his platform.

Biden, while I do believe he'd beat Trump, would be a huge mistake. I doubt he'd have a second term. He'd only lead the party backwards and convince many of these kinds of voters to go back to the GOP, as he'd be perceived, as just another establishment politician. Especially if he only worked to keep the status quo. The status quo is what voters are rebelling against. Voters today respect a leader that is actually going to DO SOMETHING for them, like Medicare for All, or going after Wall Street's accesses.

I was going to give myself until the new year. I'll have to keep you on pins and needles until then

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

TexasTowelie

(112,860 posts)
34. The poster that you are responding to
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 08:59 PM
Dec 2019

lives in Canada and can't vote in the US.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Wawannabe

(5,694 posts)
37. Thanks Texas Towelie for pointing that out.
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 09:40 PM
Dec 2019

I will look at profiles in the future before responding. Just learning to do this actually even though I’ve been a member for a few years.

Tells you when someone might be stirring a pot that doesn’t belong to them.

I stand by my Bernie message. He can’t have it both ways in my opinion and I do realize it is just my opinion because he is indeed a candidate - much to my distress.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LiberalLovinLug

(14,187 posts)
47. Yes TT is correct
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 10:54 PM
Dec 2019

I am Canadian, and cannot vote in the US. But I still SUPPORT Sanders and Warren. Canada and the USA are each others largest trading partners. Everything you do, affects us, and visa versa. Not to mention I look at the world globally. I am concerned about the rash of right wing authoritarian governments springing up, including your own. That is why I feel all liberal thinking people must join forces and speak together, all around the world. To fight against union, environmental, and civil right decimation. I feel a kinship with Democrats in the US. Especially the more progressive breed of Democrat. This place saved my sanity when I joined just when Bush was going to war in Iraq. I want you, my good friends, to have universal healthcare too!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

treestar

(82,383 posts)
59. The article specifically says it would be independents
Sat Dec 7, 2019, 07:06 AM
Dec 2019

who would vote for Bernie. He would have to include a lot of those in the administration.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LiberalLovinLug

(14,187 posts)
62. Independents do not have their own party
Sat Dec 7, 2019, 03:57 PM
Dec 2019

Not sure what you mean.

The self described independent voter, who voted Democratic, would expect the Democratic party to decide who they put in key positions. Just as if they voted Republican, they are expecting Republicans.

What I would expect, and what many were disappointed with in Obama, is that, if he wins, he will continue on with his progressive mandate post election, and appoint more forward thinking progressive Democrats in those key positions.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

treestar

(82,383 posts)
69. The Senate will still be
Tue Dec 10, 2019, 01:32 PM
Dec 2019

There and then it is Bernie’s turn to have people disappointed.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Voltaire2

(13,353 posts)
68. "He would have to include a lot of those in the administration."
Sat Dec 7, 2019, 07:02 PM
Dec 2019

At least he won't be including any republicans, unlike the last two Democratic presidents.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Ninsianna

(1,349 posts)
84. So, it's "His Turn"? What does has he paid to the Democrats?
Thu Dec 12, 2019, 12:22 AM
Dec 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

betsuni

(25,882 posts)
90. He has to earn the votes for it to be His Turn. Give me a reason to vote for him.
Thu Dec 12, 2019, 04:17 AM
Dec 2019

There should not be a coronation. Feet must be held to the fire. It's not enough to say, "I'm a Bernie Sanders, vote for me."

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

booley

(3,855 posts)
14. Many see Sanders as what Democrats are supposed to be
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 06:56 PM
Dec 2019

Funny thing is many see Sanders as what Democrats used to be and should be.

We can argue whether changes to the party over the last 40 years were good or bad. But dismissing Sanders as "Not a Democrat" without considering why he has so much support among Democrats would be a mistake.

I admit I am also a bit annoyed of the double standard.

If any other Democratic Candidate (And Sanders is running as a Democrat) was drawing support in deep-red states, it would be seen as a good thing.

But for some reason when Sanders does it, it is given a collective m'eh" by the party.

I understand there is going to be a certain amount of rancor among supporters of different candidates during a primary. But this seems to go beyond that. It is always targeted at Sanders. And it's destructive to the Democrats.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
74. it was spun derisively as "winning the confederacy..."
Tue Dec 10, 2019, 02:17 PM
Dec 2019

If any other Democratic Candidate (And Sanders is running as a Democrat) was drawing support in deep-red states, it would be seen as a good thing..."

In 2016, it was spun derisively as "winning the confederacy..." and the voters as victims of "the Stockholm syndrome", so there's little reason to believe your sentiment as valid or accurate.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

booley

(3,855 posts)
95. Not really sure I understand that word salad.
Thu Dec 12, 2019, 03:27 PM
Dec 2019

So I dont' know how to respond.

But in any case, the ostensible reason the Democrats justify going with a center candidate is to get the elusive "Swing voter", the guy who votes Republican but could (in theory) be persuaded to vote Democrat. All you need to do, the hypothesis holds, is to move right. Not be too "Liberal"

It's literally why Obama chose Biden as his VP. I think it was why Clinton chose Kaine.

Well, the problem is that hasn't worked at all. Red state voters aren't' impressed by a conservative or centrist Democrat.

But apparently they are willing to take a shot on a progressive.

When Obama was turning red states purple, it was seen as a great accomplishment.

When Sanders does it, it's somehow comparable to Stock holme syndrome and the Confederacy?!

Again there is a gross double standard.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,128 posts)
80. WELL SAID!! All Democrats would be smart to emulate Bernie...
Thu Dec 12, 2019, 12:06 AM
Dec 2019

He's a true Democrat, through and through, based on his policy positions, many of which have been adopted by most Democrats.


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Kurt V.

(5,624 posts)
27. what does that mean? he doesn't deserve it? Actually i know. It's inherent . no its not.
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 08:32 PM
Dec 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,128 posts)
28. By your logic, it's Biden who can't win the nomination, since he couldn't win it in 1988 AND 2008
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 08:35 PM
Dec 2019

Bernie is more Democratic in his views than most of his fellow Democrats!!


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

CozyMystery

(652 posts)
44. Look at it this way
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 10:43 PM
Dec 2019

If Bernie were running as an Independent in this two-party country, he would lose. He could split the vote in a close election, especially as corrupt as our country's election process is. The Democratic Party is lucky he is running as a Democrat, so that he will not be on the ticket as an Independent candidate.

I am a Bernie supporter this time around, just as I was last time. I voted for him in the primary. Who are you to say Bernie does not deserve to be elected? I can trot out lots of candidates, by name, and say the same thing, and give solid reasons for my views. I don't do that. Why? Because it isn't right. I don't like it when people say things like you have stated about my favorite candidate, and I am not going to do that to supporters of other Democratic candidates. We all deserve the right to make up our own minds.

Every candidate, in my view, has the right to tell the nation why s/he would be a great president. Of course, I don't agree with all of the candidates. Some of them are simply not qualified for the job. Some of them are people I do not think will take the country in the direction that I think will benefit the majority of its citizens, either at all, or quickly enough to do some good during a term or two in office.

I voted for Hilary Clinton in the national election simply because she was the only reasonable choice since she was the Democratic candidate. I've voted for candidates I did not otherwise support, Democrats all, in previous elections, too.

I vote the straight D ticket, because what else is an intelligent person to do?

Comments like yours nauseate me. I can vote for whomever I please, even if doing so makes me know I am not being true to myself. Which is how I felt last time, and some other times, too.

My desire is to be able to vote for a candidate I fully support. I doubt that will ever happen. In the meanwhile, just be glad Bernie is not running as a third-party candidate, and right there on the ballots with the other two party's candidates.

Bernie could split the vote if he were running as a third-party candidate, instead of as a Democrat. It's happened before. It could happen again. Here are two examples:

1912 Election: Teddy Roosevelt

The 1912 United States presidential election was the 32nd quadrennial presidential election, held on Tuesday, November 5, 1912. Democratic Governor Woodrow Wilson of New Jersey unseated incumbent Republican President William Howard Taft and defeated former President Theodore Roosevelt, who ran as the Progressive Party ("Bull Moose&quot nominee. Roosevelt remains the only third party presidential candidate in U.S. history to finish better than third in the popular or electoral vote.

... Wilson carried 40 states and won a large majority of the electoral vote, taking advantage of the split in the Republican Party. He was the first Democrat to win a presidential election since 1892, and would be one of just two Democratic presidents to serve between the American Civil War and the onset of the Great Depression. Roosevelt won 88 electoral votes, while Taft carried just two states, taking 8 electoral votes. Wilson won 41.8% of the national popular vote, while Roosevelt won 27%, Taft 23%, and Debs 6%.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1912_United_States_presidential_election

2000 Election: Ralph Nader

In the 2000 presidential election in Florida, George W. Bush defeated Al Gore by 537 votes. Nader received 97,421 votes, which led to claims that he was responsible for Gore's defeat. Nader disputes that he helped Bush to win.[54][55][56] A 2003 study found that Nader's candidacy was a critical factor in Bush's victory.[57] A 2004 study found that Nader voters had the profile of likely voters with a preference for Democratic candidates.[58] They were therefore likely to vote and to do so for Gore over Bush in the absence of Nader's candidacy.[58]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Nader

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,128 posts)
83. Lucky indeed!! Why Bernie is a beloved Democratic icon.
Thu Dec 12, 2019, 12:11 AM
Dec 2019

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Uncle Joe

(58,647 posts)
5. Kicked and recommended
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 05:11 PM
Dec 2019

Thanks for the thread LiberalLovinLug.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

msongs

(67,544 posts)
11. so much for the victim status of bernie not getting any media coverage nt
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 05:44 PM
Dec 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
12. "He's being ERASED!" :eyes:
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 05:46 PM
Dec 2019

I know, right? "He's being ERASED!"

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JoeOtterbein

(7,703 posts)
17. Well it sounds like Bernie burned a few nerves.
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 07:35 PM
Dec 2019

I can't wait to watch it!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
21. I just can't abide by anyone claiming that the Democratic party is ideologically bankrupt...
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 08:13 PM
Dec 2019

I just can't abide by anyone claiming that the Democratic party is "ideologically bankrupt"... or that the Democratic party is the "party of the elite" or the "party of the one percent". Yeah, those lies and insults and smears burn my nerves. I could NEVER support anyone who publicly states that Democrats are "feeble" and that the party is an "absolute failure" and the Democrats are "do-nothings" who "don't care about climate change" and that Democrats "focus too much on diversity". That "burns my nerves" too. It's also NOT TRUE that the Democrats who "are very big into diversity" aren't "particularly sympathetic" to the working class. It's offensive to hear those lies repeated over and over again.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JoeOtterbein

(7,703 posts)
22. I feel like failure everyday.
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 08:15 PM
Dec 2019

I'm tired of crying.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
23. How do you feel about the attacks and smears on the Democratic party that I mentioned above?
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 08:23 PM
Dec 2019

Do you agree with them? Do you agree that the Democratic party is "feeble" and "ideologically bankrupt"? Do you agree that the Democratic party is the "party of the elite" or the "party of the one percent". Do you agree when someone falsely claims that the Democrats are "do-nothings" who "don't care about climate change" and that Democrats "focus too much on diversity".

How does it make you feel when someone says that Democrats aren't "particularly sympathetic" to the working class?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JoeOtterbein

(7,703 posts)
24. Not nearly as sorry as I feel for folks without insurance who lose everything...
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 08:26 PM
Dec 2019

...because of medical bills. And much worse, some people die because they cannot afford healthcare.

Tears, and fears, again.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,128 posts)
30. Right on Joe!! Bernie is a hero to those whose lives hang in the balance.
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 08:37 PM
Dec 2019

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
33. The lies and smears only benefit the GOP. It weakens the Democratic party by creating division....
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 08:49 PM
Dec 2019

The lies and smears only benefit the GOP. It weakens the Democratic party by creating division and distrust. It does absolutely nothing to benefit "those whose lives hang in the balance". In fact it does the exact opposite for the most vulnerable among us. The lies and negativity generates apathy. Apathy discourages voter turnout. Low voter turnout gives Republicans and Russia a chance to steal the elections. What good purpose does that serve?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

George II

(67,782 posts)
38. And yet, in all these years, he hasn't legislatively helped any of those....
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 10:11 PM
Dec 2019

...."whose lives hang in the balance".

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

TexasTowelie

(112,860 posts)
43. Please don't include me in your sweeping generalization.
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 10:31 PM
Dec 2019

For most of the past eight years my life has hung in the balance (impoverished and on indigent care). I don't consider Bernie to be my hero.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
31. Those lies and smears generate negativity. Negativity...
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 08:47 PM
Dec 2019

Those lies and smears generate negativity. Negativity generates apathy. Apathy discourages voter turnout. Low voter turnout gives Republicans a chance to steal the elections.

Why would anyone purposely do things that help the GOP and Trump and the Russians to steal elections? Why would anyone defend that type of behavior? Why would anyone pretend that it hasn't happened or that it doesn't matter.

Words matter, and those attacks, and smears and lies only benefit the GOP... it does NOT help people who cannot afford healthcare.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

mcar

(42,489 posts)
39. Why is this so hard to understand?
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 10:12 PM
Dec 2019
Those lies and smears generate negativity. Negativity generates apathy. Apathy discourages voter turnout. Low voter turnout gives Republicans a chance to steal the elections.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
42. It's the trap of the cult of personality... and vanity.
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 10:25 PM
Dec 2019

It's the trap of the cult of personality... and vanity. Basically, an inability of some individuals to admit that they're wrong or that other viewpoints are equally valid and other methods are more productive. The "all or nothing" and "no compromise" strategies seldom work and generally end up with an empty plate.

All I'm saying is... if we want to defeat and neutralize the GOP (and Russia) then the Democratic party is the ONLY option. There are no other choices. It's only ONE of TWO parties. We have a defacto two-party system when it comes to national politics. It serves NO good purpose for anyone to smear, belittle or denigrate Democrats or the Democratic party.

The only motivation for doing such a thing is vanity and pride.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Ninsianna

(1,349 posts)
85. I feel terrible for those people too, all the discussion is about
Thu Dec 12, 2019, 12:28 AM
Dec 2019

using their pain and fear and basically screwing them over because the things people are promising are not practical. It's just cruel. When you or your loved one is facing medical issues right now, how does some esoteric ideological debate help?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

TexasTowelie

(112,860 posts)
35. I think that Bernie burned some bridges along the way also.
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 09:18 PM
Dec 2019

Hiring Jill Stein voters to run his campaign didn't help.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

George II

(67,782 posts)
40. There was also Matt Orfalea and Darius Khalil Gordon. I'll leave it at that.
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 10:17 PM
Dec 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

lapucelle

(18,423 posts)
79. The video is from The Rationa National.
Thu Dec 12, 2019, 12:05 AM
Dec 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LiberalLovinLug

(14,187 posts)
18. And how much time does he get compared to those other four stalwards?
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 07:40 PM
Dec 2019

Do you see him on every day? Every week? Once a month even? Is he a part of a returning panel?

lol. The fact that you noticed him as a guest, and commented, infers that you don't see him much.

One appearance and its "so much" for him of not getting any media coverage. lol

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

sheshe2

(84,162 posts)
54. ...
Sat Dec 7, 2019, 03:11 AM
Dec 2019

Dec 01 2019
Sun
Columbia SC Town Hall
Columbia, SC
Nov 19 2019
Tue
NBC Interview

NBC
Nov 17 2019
Sun
Las Vegas NV Town Hall
Las Vegas, NV
Nov 11 2019
Mon
Commemorative Speech
Des Moines, IA
Oct 28 2019
Mon
Tommy Vietor Interview
Washington DC
Oct 19 2019
Sat
New York City NY Speech
New York City, NY
Sep 27 2019
Fri
Stephen Colbert Interview
New York City, NY
CBS
Sep 23 2019
Mon
Clinton Iowa Speech
Clinton, IA
Sep 14 2019
Sat
UNLV Speech
UNLV
Sep 13 2019
Fri
Matt Taibbi Interview
Las Vegas, NV
Sep 04 2019
Wed
The View Interview
New York City, NY
ABC
Sep 03 2019
Tue
Nashua NH Town Hall
Nashua, NH
Sep 02 2019
Mon
Claremont NH Town Hall
Claremont, NH
Aug 29 2019
Thu
Interview
Atlanta, GA
Aug 27 2019
Tue
Krystal Ball Interview
Washington DC
Aug 25 2019
Sun
Louisville KY Speech
Louisville, KY
Aug 20 2019
Tue
Four Directions Forum
Sioux City, IA
Aug 11 2019
Sun
Iowa State Fair Speech
Des Moines, IA
Aug 11 2019
Sun
Margaret Brennan Interview
Greenfield, IA
CBS
Jul 16 2019
Tue
Washington Post Interview
Washington DC
Jul 11 2019
Thu
LULAC Hosted Town Hall
Milwaukee, WI
Jul 11 2019
Thu
George Stephanopolos Interview
New York City, NY
ABC
Jun 27 2019
Thu
Andrea Mitchell Interview
Miami, FL
MSNBC
Jun 23 2019
Sun
Rock Hill SC Town Hall
Rock Hill, SC
Jun 22 2019
Sat
MSNBC Interview
Columbia , SC
MSNBC
Jun 22 2019
Sat
Shaquille Brewster Interview
South Carolina Democratic Convention
MSNBC
Jun 21 2019
Fri
Velshi & Ruhle Interview
Washington DC
MSNBC
Jun 16 2019
Sun
Chris Wallace Interview
Washington DC
Fox News
Jun 12 2019
Wed
George Washington Speech
Washington DC
Jun 09 2019
Sun
Dubuque Iowa Rally
Dubuque, IA
Jun 09 2019
Sun
Iowa Democratic Party Hall of Fame Speech
Cedar Rapids, IA
Jun 08 2019
Sat
Waterloo Iowa Town Hall
Waterloo, IA
Jun 08 2019
Sat
Marshalltown Iowa Town Hall
Marshalltown, IA
Jun 01 2019
Sat
San Jose CA Rally
San Jose, CA
May 31 2019
Fri
Pasadena CA Rally
Pasadena, CA
May 29 2019
Wed
Reno NV Rally
Reno , NV
May 29 2019
Wed
Las Vegas NV Rally
Las Vegas, NV
May 19 2019
Sun
Interview
Washington DC
NBC
May 09 2019
Thu
Velshi & Ruhle Interview
New York City, NY
MSNBC
Apr 22 2019
Mon
CNN Town Hall
Manchester, NH
CNN
Apr 15 2019
Mon
Fox News Town Hall
Bethlehem, PA
Fox News
Mar 31 2019
Sun
Margaret Brennan Interview
Washington DC
CBS
Mar 01 2019
Fri
The View Interview
New York City, NY
ABC
Mar 01 2019
Fri
Seth Meyers Interview
New York City, NY
NBC
Feb 25 2019
Mon
CNN Town Hall
New York City, NY
CNN
Feb 22 2019
Fri
Chris Hayes Interview
New York City, NY
MSNBC
Feb 19 2019
Tue
YouTube Presidential Announcement

https://governmenty.com/bernie-sanders-events

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LiberalLovinLug

(14,187 posts)
63. The topic was Michael Moore's appearances. Not Sanders.
Sat Dec 7, 2019, 04:35 PM
Dec 2019

Obviously in a primary race, any Presidential candidate should be on TV as much as they can.

Even so......on your list I count about 20 TV appearances, all year. Still kind of sparse for a top candidate.

But back to the topic, I couldn't find some record of Moore's appearances, so I googled "michael moore CNN 2019", and "michael moore MSNBC 2019"

I found,

Four different dates for CNN

Three for MSNBC

Maybe he appeared on other networks too, but those two would be the main ones he'd be asked to go on.

So again...obviously those two hosts get to speak to the camera every day. And how much do those two guests. McCaskill and Wilson get on as guest pundits? I see them on all the time.

Thanks for participating in the discussion.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

JoeOtterbein

(7,703 posts)
15. K n R ! Thanks for posting! nt
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 07:33 PM
Dec 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

SidDithers

(44,228 posts)
20. Kentucky has the correct demographic...nt
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 07:49 PM
Dec 2019

Sid

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Joe941

(2,848 posts)
25. Bernie has a D next to his name last I checked.
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 08:27 PM
Dec 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Hassin Bin Sober

(26,380 posts)
29. Yep. And he is part of the Senate Democratic Leadership
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 08:35 PM
Dec 2019

Best with sound on:


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

George II

(67,782 posts)
41. Do you know what the function of that "leadership" position is? It's essentially a do-nothing job.
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 10:19 PM
Dec 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,128 posts)
81. And for good reason!!
Thu Dec 12, 2019, 12:07 AM
Dec 2019

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

TexasTowelie

(112,860 posts)
36. The last time I checked he still was the independent senator from Vermont
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 09:21 PM
Dec 2019

and his FEC filing for his 2024 Senate campaign also indicates that he filed as an independent. I guess that is something that we are supposed to ignore though.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

TexasTowelie

(112,860 posts)
48. Bernie also signed a pledge that he wouldn't attack other Democratic candidates
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 10:59 PM
Dec 2019

He and his staff have violated that pledge repeatedly. Has Bernie refiled his 2024 election campaign with the FEC to indicate that he is a Democrat instead of independent? If the answer is no, then we certainly have the right to question the validity of the pledge you are touting.

Check the upper right corner and you will see the date is March 4, 2019, one day before he signed the pledge you mentioned.

https://docquery.fec.gov/pdf/416/201903049145600416/201903049145600416.pdf

So am I supposed to believe the FEC filing of March 4 or the pledge he made on March 5?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
49. BS claimed he'd remain a Democrat forever the last time.
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 11:38 PM
Dec 2019

Only it wasn't true.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
72. "Sanders' campaign says he'll stay a Democrat after election" [2016]
Tue Dec 10, 2019, 02:00 PM
Dec 2019
Bernie Sanders will remain a member of the Democratic Party after his primary election against Hillary Clinton, his campaign manager said Wednesday.

The independent Vermont senator’s congressional website currently notes that Sanders is the “the longest serving independent member of Congress in American history,” though he caucuses with Democrats.

“If Sen. Sanders is not the nominee, will he stay in the Democratic Party forever now,” Bloomberg Politics’ Mark Halperin asked.

“Well, he is a Democrat. He’s said he’s a Democrat, and he’s gonna be [supporting] the Democratic nominee, whoever that is,” Sanders campaign manager Jeff Weaver told Bloomberg Politics’ “With All Due Respect.”

“But he’s a member of the Democratic Party now for life?” Halperin pressed.

“Yes, he is,” Weaver said. “Yes, he is.”


https://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-dem-primary-live-updates-and-results/2016/04/bernie-sanders-democrat-independent-222228



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Joe941

(2,848 posts)
55. Bernie has to defend himself. He is constantly being attacked from all sides.
Sat Dec 7, 2019, 06:07 AM
Dec 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

TexasTowelie

(112,860 posts)
56. It's one thing to play defense and I accept that all candidates will have to do that within the
Sat Dec 7, 2019, 06:20 AM
Dec 2019

course of the primary season.

However, Bernie and his team also have gone on offense. That certainly goes against the spirit of the pledge and I don't see any justification as acceptable--even that he is constantly being attacked. No matter how things are spun, Bernie failed to keep his promise and that weighs negatively with voters as they consider Bernie's candidacy.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Joe941

(2,848 posts)
58. DU has been telling be that Bernie has been in free fall for months.
Sat Dec 7, 2019, 07:05 AM
Dec 2019

It's more wishful thinking than anything. I just hope when he wins the nomination you and others so negative on him will vote for him.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

TexasTowelie

(112,860 posts)
60. I don't expect to be voting for him
Sat Dec 7, 2019, 07:15 AM
Dec 2019

because I don't think he will win the nomination. As far as wishful thinking is concerned, there seems to be plenty of that going around.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Tiggeroshii

(11,088 posts)
86. Interesting
Thu Dec 12, 2019, 12:39 AM
Dec 2019

You contradict yourself. Because right underneath the statement "I don't expect to be voting for him," you state that you will be voting for him.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

TexasTowelie

(112,860 posts)
87. Oh well, my farce was discovered.
Thu Dec 12, 2019, 03:28 AM
Dec 2019

At least I didn't post a thread attacking another candidate (Buttigieg) while simultaneously changing "my preferred candidate" from Sanders to Biden so that it would appear like that attack was coming from a Biden supporter instead of a Bernie supporter.

I am also aware of at least two other Bernie supporters that also tried to misleading other DU members pulling the same stunt. By the way, all three of those members support Bernie this election.

Did you bother calling those members out? I already know the answer to that question so you really don't need to respond.

It just shows that you can't believe everything you see on the Internet. I think that I'll continue to show Bernie just for the hell of it.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

TexasTowelie

(112,860 posts)
88. I also found the CNN poll for Texas extremely interesting today.
Thu Dec 12, 2019, 03:34 AM
Dec 2019

If Bernie drops one more percentage point, then Biden will receive all 228 delegates from Texas. Bye, bye Bernie. For all practical purposes the rest of the primaries after Super Tuesday won't matter.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

Response to Joe941 (Reply #55)

 

booley

(3,855 posts)
64. Attacked how?
Sat Dec 7, 2019, 04:53 PM
Dec 2019

I haven't ee Sanders attack the other Democratic contenders any more than they have attacked him.

In other words, he attacks the policies while pushing his own.

Last i heard that was how a campaign was supposed to be run.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

TexasTowelie

(112,860 posts)
67. I can't reply without giving you the opportunity to alert my post. nt
Sat Dec 7, 2019, 06:32 PM
Dec 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,128 posts)
82. BOOOOOOOOM!!
Thu Dec 12, 2019, 12:08 AM
Dec 2019

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,128 posts)
46. Yes, Bernie is running as a Democrat and will serve as the next Democratic POTUS.
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 10:53 PM
Dec 2019

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,128 posts)
51. I am... there's no stoppin the unbeatable team of Bernie & Elizabeth!!
Sat Dec 7, 2019, 12:33 AM
Dec 2019

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Wabbajack_

(1,300 posts)
52. Sanders and Clinton
Sat Dec 7, 2019, 12:37 AM
Dec 2019

Nearly tied in the last primary in Kentucky so I don't really understand why anyone would be surprised.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

radius777

(3,635 posts)
53. No surprise, he's the hero of the white left,
Sat Dec 7, 2019, 02:46 AM
Dec 2019

who tend to be culturally conservative/libertarian, and to the left on economics.

Vermont is a rural white state with demographics that resemble many of these red states.

The Dem party changed over the past 50 years, became more diverse and metropolitan, with a social justice focus (as embodied by icons such as Hillary and Obama) that many heartland whites resent - hence the embrace of populism from the right (Trump) and left (Sanders, Stein, etc).

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

betsuni

(25,882 posts)
57. +10000000000000000000000
Sat Dec 7, 2019, 06:27 AM
Dec 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BannonsLiver

(16,556 posts)
61. Righteous truth right there.
Sat Dec 7, 2019, 09:13 AM
Dec 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

booley

(3,855 posts)
65. Since when do only white people care about health care?
Sat Dec 7, 2019, 05:08 PM
Dec 2019

Might want to rethink your post as I see a few problems.

For one, Sanders has lots of support among minorities and women. The issue for him is more generational.

For another, Sanders was fighting for civil rights for black people since the 60s. He supported gay rights in the 80s. Anyone who thinks Sanders doesn't have a "Social Justice Focus" doesn't' really know the man's history.

And finally, maybe dismissing populists as inherently racist (without ANY evidence to that effect) is a bit.. out of touch. The Bernie supporters here said flat out why there's support for him in Kentucky. His position on health care. That isnt exclusive to white people.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

radius777

(3,635 posts)
66. Sanders is a social libertarian
Sat Dec 7, 2019, 06:03 PM
Dec 2019

who supports civil/gay/women's rights from that perspective, but isn't going to draw a line in the sand the way a social liberal would. Warren for example has the same/similar economic platform as Sanders, yet is disliked intensely (just as much as Hillary was) by the white heartland, because she is a fierce social liberal and a woman.

Basically Sanders would prefer that his voters support civil rights, but if they don't, as long as they support economic leftism - then he thinks that's good enough, as to him economics/class are the 'true oppression', where social issues are merely a side concern at best, and at worst only work to 'divide' the working class. He has given numerous speeches to this effect, about 'identity politics', about reaching out to Trump voters (and downplaying their racism/sexism), about not scaring away the white working class, etc.

Again, a social liberal, or 'social justice warrior' as some of his supporters would characterize it - does not view social justice as a choice but a mandate - the 'long march' of civil rights through the institutions of society, to correct historical inequities. Even a moderate social liberal like Bill Clinton or Obama viewed it this way, merely choosing incrementalism towards this end and making compromises along the way, while still believing in the ultimate goal in the long run.

And Sanders' supporters (who are mainly white) understand all of this on an intuitive level - that he isn't forcing them to accept social justice (in the short or long run), as long as they support his economic leftism and his populist narratives, which (surprise surprise) tend to center the white working class at its struggles and resentments, its small town sensibilities, its aesthetic - just like the old FDR/Dixiecrat Dem party used to.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

booley

(3,855 posts)
92. The more I read the less I thought you had ever listened to Bernie Sanders
Thu Dec 12, 2019, 03:02 PM
Dec 2019

Yeah much of his focus is on economic issues and that's about the only thing I think you got right.

The guy endorsed gay Marriage in the 80s. Not a lot of politicians were doing that. And that is just one example. There is no incrementalism about his social justice. His politics were formed on social Justice.

Ok you want to know why Sanders is popular with a lot of white people, it's simple. I will tell you as a white guy who has always supported Bernie Sanders.

He doesn't' accept this is a binary choice. Helping rural white people and being for civil rights for non-white/cis/straight isn't an either-or nor does he accept the framing of it as such. Framing that while pushed mostly by Republicans but isn't really challenged by a lot of Democrats.

A lot of rural white people feel abandoned. The Democratic party as a whole seems to have written them off. The only people talking to them were the Republicans who stoked prejudices. The guys in the OP's video flat out explain this.

But then along comes Sanders who says "Rural America does have problems. They arent' imagining it. But it's isn't some black single mom getting food stamps. It's not an immigrant looking for a better life. Its' the rich and powerful who have exploited rural America just like they have exploited everyone else."

The conflict between white rural America and diverse urban America is based on a false narrative.

Maybe someone could explain it better but frankly, I don't' think you have taken the time to listen to Sanders or any of his supporters. Maybe you should.

...and his populist narratives, which (surprise surprise) tend to center the white working class...


I think this statement alone kind of sums up my issue here.

His populist narratives actually are universal. After Biden, Sanders leads in the African American vote. He is intensely popular with Latinos. Much of his supporters are women. These people aren't' stupid nor monolithic. They can understand their own self interest.

Framing Sander's policies as "for white people" seriously misses all sorts of points.

So before responding (assuming you will) maybe take some time to ask Sanders supporters WHY they support him and his policies.

And maybe ask Sanders supporters who aren't white men. Though you seem to think they are like Unicorns I assure they are actually quite common and perfectly capable of speaking for themselves if politely asked.



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

corbettkroehler

(1,898 posts)
91. Another CNN Surprise
Thu Dec 12, 2019, 12:43 PM
Dec 2019
Accuracy!

CNN Reports on the main portion of its full-screen Chyron that Sanders is within the margin of error of first place in California but omits him from the caption. Yellow journalism at its worst!



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

LiberalLovinLug

(14,187 posts)
93. The Bernie Blackout is very real
Thu Dec 12, 2019, 03:02 PM
Dec 2019

Sometimes its done very overtly, sometimes its more subtle.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

booley

(3,855 posts)
94. Reminds me of the buildup to the Iraq War
Thu Dec 12, 2019, 03:15 PM
Dec 2019

The main narrative in the media was pro war.

But if you looked you could see the cracks, the news that contradicted that narrative.

Even the main cable news channels provided facts that showed Bush was lying even as they pushed for that war.

The same thing seems ot be happening

here. The Media pushes a narrative. But they aren't monolithic. And they still have to report what is going on.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

TexasTowelie

(112,860 posts)
97. Already setting up the narrative for when Bernie isn't chosen to be the nominee?
Sat Dec 14, 2019, 07:09 AM
Dec 2019


Everyone knows who Bernie is and he is featured prominently not only on the news (which nobody watches anymore), but on the late night talk shows (which people do watch).

I've already started the countdown for the sour grapes.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LiberalLovinLug

(14,187 posts)
98. Thanks for your support for Bernie!
Sat Dec 14, 2019, 02:47 PM
Dec 2019

Its all a double switcharoo, I see.

You pretend to just be another sad Bernie Basher, with nothing better to do than ridicule another Democratic candidate, but actually you are committed to voting for him! shhhhh. your sig line gives you away.

You pretend to have the same irrational hatred of grass root supported, individual donations, bottom up type governing. But you actually love Bernie! You're not crazy at all. You purposely try and make people disgusted with what you say and infer about him, so they run all the faster to support him. Now I get it. Brilliant!

Thanks for the Bernie sig. Makes it look like there's more Sanders supporters on DU, which might encourage others. Maybe we can get this place to reflect the actual numbers outside of DU, which has him much higher. Good plan!


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

TexasTowelie

(112,860 posts)
99. Well,
Sat Dec 14, 2019, 02:55 PM
Dec 2019

at least I didn't post a thread attacking another candidate (Buttigieg) while simultaneously changing "my preferred candidate" from Sanders to Biden so that it would appear like that attack was coming from a Biden supporter instead of a Bernie supporter.

I am also aware of at least two other Bernie supporters that also tried to misleading other DU members pulling the same stunt. By the way, all three of those members support Bernie this election.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LiberalLovinLug

(14,187 posts)
101. Yourself and Nurse Jackie are the only two I've seen pull this stunt
Sat Dec 14, 2019, 03:13 PM
Dec 2019

I'll take your word for it, that there are Bernie supporters changing to Biden. Clever, but naughty. Something I might have thought of. he he. And if this is allowed to continue by admin, I just may say, if you can't beat em, join em. Would be kinda fun exposing Biden's flaws as a candidate while bearing his sig. I can see the temptation. I am going to make my sig decision on Jan 1st.

But really, I'd feel a little dirty. Fun for an afternoon, but I can't see playing the imposter too long. Its a cheap ploy. If one gets off on pretending to be a candidate they don't like to sneakily flame other actual supporters, then maybe there's a flaw in the candidate you are hiding from. Its a tad desperate. That's what many will think at least. Something to consider. (For those doing it either way)

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

TexasTowelie

(112,860 posts)
102. You're welcome to do so.
Sat Dec 14, 2019, 04:14 PM
Dec 2019

Then it will be pointed out that you are a Canadian citizen and can't vote in the U.S. Considering that one of the concerns in the last election and the current election is about foreign interference...well, needless to say some members are already wondering.

My first preferred choice was Beto O'Rourke. You can check that I still remain the host there and posted frequently within that group. After Beto withdrew from the race I was automatically changed to "Undecided" after the admins updated the list of candidates to note that he withdrew. I did post a thank you message between the time he withdrew and before the admins made the change that he withdrew. That group is closed so nobody can post there anymore-- not even myself. In the meantime, please realize that any system can be manipulated and I'm relatively late to the game. I noted that none of the Bernie supporters called out the members that changed their preferences when they had less than honorable intentions. Did you call out any of them?

At some point, I will change back to "Undecided" since I haven't made my final decision, but in the mean time I'm comfortable leaving my preference as is. I still have two or three candidates that remain in consideration and I've completely eliminated several other candidates. Since I don't have to vote until Super Tuesday, I have plenty of time left. I still may not indicate who my choice at that time is either since there is no requirement that we have to divulge our choice on DU.

So have and choose whomever you wish on January 1. What's posted on DU as far as our candidate preference has no significance in the real world.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LiberalLovinLug

(14,187 posts)
103. OMG you"ve revealed the real culprits
Sat Dec 14, 2019, 06:26 PM
Dec 2019

Its the damned Canadians! Not the Russians.

Don't let Justin Trudeau's boyish looks fool you. He's a secret masochist and wants another four years of insults.

I would hope that the majority of DU users would understand how close Canada is with the USA, both culturally, economically, major religion, a democratic political system. And we are each others largest trading partners. And realize how invested Canadians are in the political results there. Also that many hopefully realize that this is a global fight. Trump is a huge boil on the world. But someone else will replace him who is just as evil, greedy, and destructive, even if they are smart enough not to look an idiot. There is a right wing authoritarian wave sweeping the globe. I will not sit by silently while this happens without at least being able to vent about it in a message board that represents the party that has the best chance to defeat this in the closest other country to me, and be intimidated from sharing my concerns simply because I don't have the right birth certificate.

I honestly have never seen a Bernie supporter use another candidate sig for that reason. I'll take your word for it though. Sanders supporters are among the smartest.

Part of why I haven't put any choice under me is precisely because I can't vote there. But it is how DU admin has set it up. So if I continue "undecided" I get called out for not deciding, which has happened. And I look like I'm doing a similar thing as you and Nurse Jackie are doing, by pretending to not endorse anyone but really going for Sanders. (Who by now one could guess would be my choice for your President) I want to support Sanders still, even if not by voting. I can still donate. I can still push his message on this and other social media sites. Because a Sanders, or Warren, administration would be good for the US, for Canada, and for the world.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

TexasTowelie

(112,860 posts)
104. Well, what is this all abut?
Sat Dec 14, 2019, 07:10 PM
Dec 2019


But on a serious note, you can still donate? To who? I hope that you are referring to DU because you can't donate to any US presidential candidates without breaking federal law. And awhile ago you made a comment about what the US deserves, so I know that brought some scrutiny as to what a Canadian thinks the US deserves.

Unfortunately, even if you have the most noble intentions, there will always be a question mark as to whose interests you are supporting when you are participating on a political discussion board in another country--I would expect similar doubts to be expressed if I participated on a political discussion board in your country which is why I don't. You're definitely welcome to bash Trump and bash the Republican party on DU; however, when it comes down to the primary candidates and most policies you are probably on shaky ground.

As for Sanders supporters being among the smartest, well that is a debatable statement which I don't agree with it, but to each their own. However, it has been noted that they displayed their deviousness as I mentioned in an earlier response. Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it isn't true and other DUers noticed it also. I'd point you to it, but the author of that OP already reverted back to Bernie as their preferred candidate. Nobody was fooled by that charade.

By the way, you seem to be perfectly fine if someone on your side employs devious tactics and you consider that to be smart. However, if someone on the other side employs similar tactics then they are dirty. Talk about a double standard.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

TexasTowelie

(112,860 posts)
100. BTW.
Sat Dec 14, 2019, 03:01 PM
Dec 2019

it also shows that you can't believe everything you see on the Internet (even the poll numbers).

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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