'People have real questions about this': Hunter-Ukraine questions cloud Biden tour

[JoeOtterbein]

[link:https://www.politico.com/news/2019/12/06/joe-hunter-biden-ukraine-2020-tour-077460|

The former veep still hasn’t found a clear and cogent message when it comes to his son’s overseas business dealings.

ELKADER, Iowa — Joe Biden has two methods of responding to questions about his son’s controversial business dealings in Ukraine: denial and anger.

But so far, Biden doesn’t have a clear and cogent message — and Iowa voters are starting to take notice, especially after his fiery encounter Thursday with a retired farmer who advanced the unfounded claim that the former vice president played a role in landing his son a job at a Ukrainian gas company.

Biden was forced Friday to address the confrontation, in which he had called the voter a “damn liar,” and even challenged him to a physical fitness contest after the 83-year-old man said the 77-year-old Biden was “too damn old” to be president.

“I probably shouldn’t have challenged him to pushups,” Biden told reporters when asked about the run-in.

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more at link

[TwilightZone]

1. How many times does this need to be posted?

The Ukraine/Biden conspiracy theory, created out of thin air by Trump and his minions as cover for his bribery and extortion, has been thoroughly debunked.

Perpetuating it isn't going to accomplish anything.

[pazzyanne]

2. Thank you, TwilightZone.

I personally am getting tired of Russian talking points being promoted on DU, especially debunked talking points.

[Fiendish Thingy]

48. Russian talking points shouldn't be supported

But they need to be acknowledged, the CT’s exist, and Biden must respond to them effectively ,illuminating them for the falsehoods they are, if he is to have a chance against Trump.

[NYMinute]

7. David Sirota said....

"As many times as one can ... we are in the smearing and disinformation business."

[still_one]

37. Only by those who are insecure about their candidate, and feel threatened by Biden

[Hoyt]

3. Biden will have an easy time against trump. Yeah, well what about Ivanka, Junior,

Eric, and everyone else you set up to profit off your Presidency?

But, thanks for the concern.

[Garrett78]

8. While nobody has "real questions" about this Biden-Ukraine nonsense...

...I don't think Biden, without a script, on a debate stage with Trump would go particularly well for us. In fact, it could prove disastrous. I disagree with the narrative that Biden represents our best chance. I think that's a big error in judgement based on a misunderstanding of what happened in 2016.

If we want to go the moderate route, I'd much rather have Klobuchar or Booker. Or Buttigieg, except that he's alienated Black folks, which I think dooms his campaign. Or Patrick, but he joined the race way, way, way too late.

[Skya Rhen]

11. The polls, which gather collective opinions, show that Biden represents our best chance to win - a

far better chance than your candidate for sure.

[Garrett78]

13. Hypothetical matchup polls are historically misleading. Just ask President Dukakis.

And I don't have a candidate preference at the moment. I lean toward Warren or Booker, but I'm undecided at this time.

We didn't lose in 2016 because of economically anxious blue collar workers who left the Democratic Party and will return if Biden is the nominee, as some like to suggest. We lost because of shenanigans and because hundreds of thousands of Obama voters across key states simply didn't vote. They didn't turn out for the much-vilified Hillary Clinton.

Hypothetical matchup polls taken during the primary are garbage. Once the primary is over and it's a 1-on-1 race for the presidency, it's a totally different dynamic.

[JoeOtterbein]

17. Bernie beats Trump in most head-to-head polls!

A little known true fact!

[Garrett78]

26. And, once again, those hypothetical matchup polls are historically worthless.

[JoeOtterbein]

31. I would agree, but polls are like money in politics.

Both are destructive necessities in the good ole USA.

[Garrett78]

41. My issue isn't with polls in general, though. The point is...

...that the hypothetical matchup polls taken during the primary season (that match this potential candidate against that potential candidate) have a history of being more than just a little misleading. Again, ask President Dukakis about those polls.

Using them as a barometer or an indication as to who the best nominee would be is terribly flawed.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

42. There you go again Joe... citing facts!! You got some nerve!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[JoeOtterbein]

43. How dare that little weasl......

....bahahhhahahahahaha!

Thanks for the beer spitting all over my den!!!!!!

[Garrett78]

58. See posts 13, 26 and 41.

[doc03]

51. What about the Electoral College, that's what counts national polls

mean absolutely nothing.

[JoeOtterbein]

52. I don't know but I'm still thinking it would be Bernie...

...Because Bernie is offering things like MFA and free college.

Peeps in red states who are hurt by crippling medical and education debt.

That is why you can count on a President Sanders in 2021 !!!!

[doc03]

53. I am in a red state believe me MFA and free college won't win any election nt

[George II]

61. A candidate won't get any electoral votes if she/he isn't the nominee.

[George II]

62. So do a half dozen of our Democratic candidates. It's not a "little known fact", it's well known.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

64. It's two months to Iowa, which is an eternity in American politics.

We are going to have impeachment in that timeframe unless Nancy slows that train down. A.lot.can.happen. Today's polling means little. The main reason I hear for supporting Biden is "he alone can beat Trump." What I also hear is that nobody quite knows what he stands for and that Millenials, the new largest voting bloc, aren't really enthusiastic about him. There is also a fairly broad consensus that a vote for Biden is a vote for a one-term President (the same can be said for Sanders, as well as possibly Bloomberg & Warren).

If I were a wagering man (and I'm not), I'd bet Biden doesn't get nominated. If Elizabeth Warren can build early momentum, I think the Sanders voters pivot to her and she gets the nom.

[Autumn]

9. Have you heard a lot about Ivanka, Junior, Jarred and Eric and the shit they do?

Ask anyone if they have heard that Vankie uses her personal email account and the Trump server for the work she does for her daddy, the President of the United States in her government job in the White House? And so does her husband, another WH employee. Ask them if they have heard of the thousands of e mails she deleted including the ones she did in her official capacity in the White House concerning government business documents They will look at you like you are crazy. Then ask them about Hunter. The media has done it's job well. You should think of that and be concerned.

[LAS14]

12. Maybe that's the way the Dems should fight back. Constantly talk about those kids.

All candidates in every speech.

This "e-mails" scenario is very worrisome. It seems all a group (GOP) has to do is start "questioning" and the repetition destroys their target. Neither Kerry nor Hillary could figure out a good way to handle it, although they were better than Biden. It's scary to think there is no effective way to deal with this kind of s**t.

[Autumn]

14. I asked those at questions at a thanksgiving gathering with a few of my Republican family members.

They had no idea but they knew all about Hunter Biden. The republicans spent more time on Hunter during the impeachment hearing than they did on Trump's crimes and cohort's that are doing time. For people to sit here and say all Biden has to do is say "well Trumps kids are bad too" isn't a very good strategy. The media has been very effective at their job.

[LAS14]

15. Could you clarify?

The media has been very effective at their job.

Do you mean you think the media has repeated the Hunter Biden/e-mails meme? Or do you think, as I do, that they've been very good at almost never mentioning his name and using "political rivals" instead of "Joe Biden?"

But even with an educated media, I don't see a good defense against constant repitition, a la Kerry and Hillary.

[Autumn]

21. The media has done very well normalizing Trump and his spawn. And the republicans keep

talking about Hunter. If they spent half the time on the Trump family gifting and the idiots screw ups they would be gone.

[JoeOtterbein]

44. +1 nt

[emulatorloo]

4. MANY PEOPLE ARE SAYING!!!! Like Rudy Giuliani and Donald Trump eom

[redstateblues]

28. Very Trumpian for sure

[treestar]

5. how about some real questions about something real?

why do we let the Dotard get away with merely saying something with no basis and then it becoming a thing because the stupid pundits are trying to create a horse race?

[Happy Hoosier]

6. Only answer necessary....

“My son is an adult and took employment without consulting me. I took no action to benefit him, and all official actions were in line with international efforts to remove a known corrupt official.”

[karynnj]

10. I like it -- and hope that someone on his staff convinces him to say something equivalent to this

In fact, it would be great if it is repeated each and every time asked. Repetition works - and this has the value of being a concise statement of the truth.

Others could point out that after more than 3 decades in the Senate, chairing many powerful committees, he was still one of the poorest Senators. He clearly had no pattern of quid pro quo.

[JoeOtterbein]

18. +1 nt

[LAS14]

20. Yeah, this would be better than reacting emotionally, but...

... it would be a waste of energy to try to change a fundamental, and usually attractive quality of Joe Biden. But see my response #16.

[floppyboo]

35. Yup. Get it on all the news media same day, like Sinclair does. Repeat, repeat and do it again.

Same words, same cadence, same thing til everyone breathes it.
Works for Trump.
And yes, the only answer necessary.

[LAS14]

16. Let's call this "the swift boat/e-mails" strategy and let's talk about it...

... without accusing people of pushing right wing messages. We have to come up with a way to combat this kind of attack, and, at this point, I haven't a bird of an idea. If you didn't see the CNN special "All the President's Lies," try to find it. They spent a good bit of time talking about how a lie gains credibility merely by repetition. EVEN IF THE REPETITION IS IN SERVICE OF DEBUNKING THE LIE.

Has anyone heard of a possible strategy?

I don't think Biden's tendency to "fight back" is a particularly good one. I think Kerry's and Hillary's attempts to keep their cool were better, but, in the end, I don't think any of their strategies worked.

[JoeOtterbein]

19. +1 nt

[MineralMan]

22. Your tactics aren't working, you know...

It's embarrassing, really...

[JoeOtterbein]

25. Seriously? Why are you embarrassed by silly ole me?

I'm so embarrassed by our nation and that we have children literally begging from wheelchairs on TV, that I feel we are still living like it's it's like about 1719 not 2019.

Hell I have trouble poking my head out of my den out of fear I'll end up in tears.

Yeah, so you can say I'm a bit embarrassed too my bro.

Take care. And thank for following me close enough to be embarrassed too. We all need to be embarrassed.

[stopdiggin]

54. and all of that will go away if you just

post one more "What about Hunter?" OP ... You do realize you're carrying water for the Trump/Giuliani crowd? But you do you.

[JoeOtterbein]

56. No! It's called a "heads up". We are all Dems here. We need to know what big established...

....MSM publishers are saying about our candidates as soon as possible.

Thanks for posting, and please note that I also publish everything I can find on the MSM about Bernie. And that doing so, gets those posts plenty of criticism too.

Please have as much fun as I'm having on DU tonight!

[myohmy2]

23. with impeachment heating up...

...IMO, trump and his pukes are going to drag Joe and his family through Ukrainian mug and place them center stage at the Senate trial...

" Joe Biden has two methods of responding to questions about his son’s controversial business dealings in Ukraine: denial and anger. "

...people are or will be paying very close attention and some will believe trump's upcoming bullshit...

...Joe's going to have to do a lot better than 'denial and anger'...

...not good...

[The Valley Below]

24. Why spread RW talking points?

Poison and lies.

[JoeOtterbein]

27. I like to chase distasteful poison with a good strong Indica strain.

It help me keep my perspective when times get hard. Thank nature and the MM program here in PA. Works great!

[The Valley Below]

29. Figured as much.

[JoeOtterbein]

32. Why? Never tried a little legal weed?

It's great medicine. Calms my anger and fears. I'm still trying to find a strain for the tears.

Otherwise, have fun tonight bro!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

45. Try some "Bernie Bud"... works every time!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[JoeOtterbein]

46. Bahahahahaaaaa!

You are gonna make me break a gut tonight!

And I'm running out of beer!

[guillaumeb]

30. A better title would have been...

Uninformed voters might think this story is worth investigating.

The problem with uninformed voters is they often cannot be bothered to inform themselves. Often they do not read anything, so they depend on the television to inform them. And unfortunately, they might vote based on that misinformation.

[JoeOtterbein]

33. I copy the headline from the publisher because I post under my own name and do not want to...

...insult the publisher by changing it. You know; "don't mess with the guys who buy bits by the barrel" and stuff.

[guillaumeb]

39. I do the same thing.

But my comment is addressed to the editorial practice, and not to you.

[JoeOtterbein]

40. Thanks!

And have as much fun as me tonight!

[captain queeg]

34. Getting tired of this continuing to pop up

That being said, in the off chance there’d be a Trump-Biden debate in the coming election I think Joe ought to have a solid consistent story because you know the orange POS will pitch that at him. And it ought to be a comeback highlighting how the Prez and his grifter family have been making money off his position.

[JoeOtterbein]

36. +1

+ have tons of fun tonight captain!

[lapucelle]

38. The headline is an out of context, truncated quote.

“I don’t like what Trump is doing at all [concerning his unproven claims about Hunter Biden and Ukraine], but some people have real questions about this and he needs to respect that.”

It's a Marc Caputo story.

Journalist defends reporting that used Russian-hacked documents

In 2016, Politico Senior Writer Marc Caputo was tipped off by a Republican operative to a cache of hacked DCCC documents, stolen by Russian GRU agents and published on a blog under the now-infamous moniker Guccifer 2.0. Among those documents, which were never intended to be seen by the public, were compromising dossiers that included the scandals, indiscretions and political vulnerabilities of the Democratic Party's own candidates in Florida races.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/journalist-marc-caputo-defends-reporting-that-used-russia-hacked-documents-60-minutes-2019-11-24/

[JoeOtterbein]

49. K n R ! Thanks for posting!

Interesting about Caputo. And I hope someone becomes his boss real soon.

[ismnotwasm]

47. Are you fucking kidding me?

What the fuck is this shit doing here? With that motherfucking headline?

[JoeOtterbein]

50. I always post the headline as published. nt

[ismnotwasm]

55. Well. Aren't you adorable.

[JoeOtterbein]

57. Of course!

All Otters are!

[Turbineguy]

59. Or they'll just cook up

some other "real questions".

[George II]

60. Another blatant hit job on Biden. What's the point of this?

[Algernon Moncrieff]

63. The confrontation struck me as a setup. That said, the job in Ukraine is a bad look

To be fair, Hunter Biden couldn't have known his dad would run for President, and he is a grown man who can do what he wants. However, the son of an American politician having close ties to a Ukranian energy company - any foreign energy company - doesn't look great considering he has no background that suits him for the job other than being from a prominent political family. On the other hand, do you know what else looks really bad? The personal Attorney to the POTUS having ties to Ukrainians who have been arrested by the Feds. That looks really bad. If I were an Iowa voter, I'd be more concerned about that.