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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 05:24 PM

 

Nancy Pelosi, "Establishment Democrat," was elected the same year as Bernie & is the same age



Planned Parenthood is the "establishment" and so are all the wonderful Dems in the Democratic Black Caucus.. a!nd Rep Adam Schiff and Gerald Nadler... Nancy Pelosi

So are all the Dems who won in the Blue Wave Midterms.. who made it possible to #45IMPEACHED!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Reply Nancy Pelosi, "Establishment Democrat," was elected the same year as Bernie & is the same age (Original post)
Cha Dec 2019 OP
Voltaire2 Dec 2019 #1
Cha Dec 2019 #2
Voltaire2 Dec 2019 #3
Cha Dec 2019 #4
Thekaspervote Dec 2019 #17
Cha Dec 2019 #24
Scurrilous Dec 2019 #66
Cha Dec 2019 #94
Scurrilous Dec 2019 #125
progressoid Dec 2019 #136
ehrnst Dec 2019 #147
StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #151
ehrnst Dec 2019 #155
Cha Dec 2019 #160
ehrnst Dec 2019 #172
Cha Dec 2019 #175
Gothmog Dec 2019 #185
Cha Dec 2019 #186
Cha Dec 2019 #187
Cha Jan 2020 #190
Cha Jan 2020 #196
Sloumeau Dec 2019 #23
Cha Dec 2019 #115
Post removed Dec 2019 #137
treestar Dec 2019 #133
still_one Dec 2019 #5
Cha Dec 2019 #6
myohmy2 Dec 2019 #81
still_one Dec 2019 #95
Cha Dec 2019 #112
ehrnst Dec 2019 #144
billpolonsky Dec 2019 #7
Cha Dec 2019 #9
Cha Jan 2020 #195
The Valley Below Dec 2019 #8
Sloumeau Dec 2019 #10
Cha Dec 2019 #19
Sloumeau Dec 2019 #11
Cha Dec 2019 #106
StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #148
Cha Dec 2019 #163
booley Dec 2019 #12
George II Dec 2019 #14
booley Dec 2019 #50
lapucelle Dec 2019 #68
booley Dec 2019 #70
lapucelle Dec 2019 #84
booley Dec 2019 #96
betsuni Dec 2019 #100
lapucelle Dec 2019 #117
Cha Dec 2019 #118
lapucelle Dec 2019 #119
Cha Dec 2019 #122
sheshe2 Dec 2019 #152
ehrnst Dec 2019 #158
ehrnst Dec 2019 #146
Cha Dec 2019 #103
betsuni Dec 2019 #104
Cha Dec 2019 #105
ehrnst Dec 2019 #145
Cha Dec 2019 #164
sheshe2 Dec 2019 #153
ehrnst Dec 2019 #154
sheshe2 Dec 2019 #156
Cha Dec 2019 #166
sheshe2 Dec 2019 #169
Cha Dec 2019 #170
Demsrule86 Dec 2019 #72
betsuni Dec 2019 #82
Cha Dec 2019 #107
KSNY Dec 2019 #15
booley Dec 2019 #56
Cha Dec 2019 #16
Thekaspervote Dec 2019 #20
booley Dec 2019 #54
Cha Dec 2019 #79
booley Dec 2019 #97
Cha Dec 2019 #99
lapucelle Dec 2019 #87
betsuni Dec 2019 #92
booley Dec 2019 #98
betsuni Dec 2019 #101
Cha Dec 2019 #110
Cha Dec 2019 #109
ehrnst Dec 2019 #157
RazBerryBeret Dec 2019 #31
Cha Dec 2019 #102
Cha Dec 2019 #108
Cha Jan 2020 #189
George II Dec 2019 #13
KSNY Dec 2019 #18
Cha Dec 2019 #21
booley Dec 2019 #41
ehrnst Dec 2019 #149
George II Dec 2019 #22
OldRed2450 Dec 2019 #34
booley Dec 2019 #45
KSNY Dec 2019 #53
MarcA Dec 2019 #60
betsuni Dec 2019 #49
MarcA Dec 2019 #55
treestar Dec 2019 #134
YOHABLO Dec 2019 #27
Cha Dec 2019 #123
YOHABLO Dec 2019 #25
Cha Dec 2019 #28
YOHABLO Dec 2019 #30
Cha Dec 2019 #39
YOHABLO Dec 2019 #43
ehrnst Dec 2019 #74
Cha Dec 2019 #80
ehrnst Dec 2019 #140
progressoid Dec 2019 #138
Cha Dec 2019 #161
ehrnst Dec 2019 #73
Cha Dec 2019 #162
ritapria Dec 2019 #26
Cha Dec 2019 #33
George II Dec 2019 #35
StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #165
betsuni Dec 2019 #167
beastie boy Dec 2019 #29
Sloumeau Dec 2019 #37
Cha Dec 2019 #40
beastie boy Dec 2019 #44
Sloumeau Dec 2019 #52
beastie boy Dec 2019 #57
Sloumeau Dec 2019 #59
Cha Dec 2019 #114
Cha Dec 2019 #71
betsuni Dec 2019 #32
Sloumeau Dec 2019 #36
ehrnst Dec 2019 #75
Cha Dec 2019 #93
Autumn Dec 2019 #38
sheshe2 Dec 2019 #42
Autumn Dec 2019 #48
sheshe2 Dec 2019 #51
Autumn Dec 2019 #58
betsuni Dec 2019 #83
lapucelle Dec 2019 #89
Autumn Dec 2019 #141
ehrnst Dec 2019 #142
lapucelle Dec 2019 #143
progressoid Dec 2019 #139
paleotn Dec 2019 #46
Hekate Dec 2019 #47
NBachers Dec 2019 #61
StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #62
jalan48 Dec 2019 #63
Cha Dec 2019 #90
Gothmog Dec 2019 #64
Cha Dec 2019 #126
TexasTowelie Dec 2019 #65
warmfeet Dec 2019 #67
vsrazdem Dec 2019 #69
Eliot Rosewater Dec 2019 #77
Eliot Rosewater Dec 2019 #76
highplainsdem Dec 2019 #78
Polybius Dec 2019 #85
Cha Dec 2019 #91
W_HAMILTON Dec 2019 #86
PhoenixDem Dec 2019 #88
brutus smith Dec 2019 #111
Cha Dec 2019 #113
betsuni Dec 2019 #116
brutus smith Dec 2019 #127
LongtimeAZDem Dec 2019 #130
brutus smith Dec 2019 #131
treestar Dec 2019 #135
Peacetrain Dec 2019 #120
Cha Dec 2019 #124
cwydro Dec 2019 #121
Gothmog Dec 2019 #128
cwydro Dec 2019 #129
TexasTowelie Dec 2019 #150
treestar Dec 2019 #132
Cha Dec 2019 #159
treestar Dec 2019 #171
NYMinute Dec 2019 #168
Cha Dec 2019 #174
Gothmog Dec 2019 #173
underthematrix Dec 2019 #176
Cha Dec 2019 #177
underthematrix Dec 2019 #178
betsuni Dec 2019 #179
Gothmog Dec 2019 #180
Cha Dec 2019 #181
Gothmog Dec 2019 #182
Cha Dec 2019 #183
betsuni Dec 2019 #184
Cha Jan 2020 #188
Cha Jan 2020 #191
RandySF Jan 2020 #192
ehrnst Jan 2020 #193
Cha Jan 2020 #194

Response to Cha (Original post)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 05:26 PM

1. So your definition of establishment democrats is based on age and year elected?

 

Interesting.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 05:28 PM

2. Your post has nothing to do with the OP.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Cha (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 05:29 PM

3. "Nancy Pelosi, "Establishment Democrat," was elected the same year as Bernie & is the same age "

 

lulzd. You crack me up.
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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #3)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 05:37 PM

4. Nancy Pelosi with the help of the Moderate Dems who

 

won the Blue Wave Midterms Impeached 45.. and "BS is going to take her on?"
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Response to Cha (Reply #4)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 06:13 PM

17. Yeah right?!

 

Maybe he’ll name another post office!
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Response to Thekaspervote (Reply #17)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 06:22 PM

24. To Nancy Pelosi.. our National Treasure!

 

Mahalo, Kasper
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Response to Thekaspervote (Reply #17)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 07:50 PM

66. Seems to be a thing...among the far left wing.*

 

Dennis Kucinich was the primary sponsor of 5 bills that were enacted:

H.R. 5390 (111th): To designate the facility of the United States Postal Service located at 13301 Smith Road in Cleveland, Ohio, as the “David John Donafee Post Office Building."

H.J.Res. 26 (111th): Proclaiming Casimir Pulaski to be an honorary citizen of the United States posthumously.

H.R. 6150 (110th): To designate the facility of the United States Postal Service located at 14500 Lorain Avenue in Cleveland, Ohio, as the “John P. Gallagher Post Office Building."

H.R. 1056 (106th): Small Business Year 2000 Readiness Act.

H.R. 4083 (105th): To make available to the Ukrainian Museum and Archives the USIA television program “Window on America."

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/dennis_kucinich/400227


*After being elected to Congress in 1996, Kucinich began to position himself on the far left wing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Kucinich
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Response to Scurrilous (Reply #66)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 03:30 AM

94. Wow.. thanks for that, Scurrilous.. & then Dennis

 

Kucinich went to fox.. and then he ran for governor of Ohio. I don't know what he's up to now.
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Response to Cha (Reply #94)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 10:31 AM

125. You're welcome Cha!

 

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Response to Cha (Reply #2)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 02:01 PM

136. Establishment vs Established.

 


The establishment: the ruling class or authority group in a society; especially, an entrenched authority dedicated to preserving the status quo.

Established
: formed, founded, instituted set up in business
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Response to progressoid (Reply #136)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 03:29 PM

147. So, which are you referring to?

 

And please don't quote Jeremy Carl of the Hoover Institute again. Not really a good source for that kind of thing.
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Response to progressoid (Reply #136)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 05:33 PM

151. "Ruling Class"

 

Is Bernie saying that Nancy Pelosi, Maxine Waters, John Lewis, et al are "entrenched authorities dedicated to preserving the status quo"?

That might come as a surprise to them.

Can you point to, exactly, what "status quo" they're dedicated to preserving and exactly what they're doing to preserve it?

Of course, Bernie has had all the opportunities in the world to supplant them as members of the "ruling class," but he's chosen instead to remain on the outside yelling about how they're doing it all wrong.
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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #151)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 07:15 PM

155. +1000. (nt)

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to progressoid (Reply #136)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 09:29 PM

160. Your post has Nothing to do with the OP..

 

and That's REALITY.

The Democratic Party is for Working People and holding the trump assholes Responsible for their corruption.


your trying to drag on my Democratic Party with your insult words is Not Working, progressoid.

But Please Proceed.
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Response to Cha (Reply #160)

Tue Dec 24, 2019, 11:29 AM

172. +1000.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #172)

Tue Dec 24, 2019, 07:46 PM

175. Mahalo, ehrnst!

 

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Response to Cha (Reply #160)

Sat Dec 28, 2019, 01:09 AM

185. I agree

 

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #185)

Sat Dec 28, 2019, 01:30 AM

186. Thank you, Goth!

 

No kidding! Shine that light on Reality!
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Response to progressoid (Reply #136)

Sun Dec 29, 2019, 11:15 PM

187. So what, progressoid? What are you trying to say?

 

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Response to progressoid (Reply #136)

Thu Jan 16, 2020, 08:18 PM

190. ".. ruling class.. "? What are you trying to say?

 

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Joe Biden

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Response to progressoid (Reply #136)

Thu Jan 23, 2020, 05:22 PM

196. Wrong.

 

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 06:21 PM

23. Well, let's take a look...

 

...by starting with an article on NPR from 2016 entitled, "People Keep Talking About 'The Establishment.' What Is It, Anyway?". Link:

https://www.npr.org/2016/02/11/466049701/how-establishment-became-the-buzzword-of-the-2016-election

"It's kind of what we used to call 'The Man,' when you are against The Man," said Nathan Gonzales, editor and publisher of the Rothenberg and Gonzales Political Report. "The establishment has become 'The Man.'"

No one wants to be the square who hates rock 'n' roll. And no one wants to be "establishment" in the 2016 presidential race. Hillary Clinton quickly distanced herself from the label when Bernie Sanders used it against her in the last presidential debate. Republican Jeb Bush only grudgingly accepted the label.

"Fine, I'll take it," he said.

That's too bad for him. As political strategist Mark McKinnon told NPR, this is the most anti-establishment race he has ever seen.

In fact, here's how he defined "establishment": "The measles. A disease. A political disease."


In other words, "the establishment" is apparently slur that Bernie Sanders uses against people that he is running against. I am not particularly worried. Bernie's not going to win anyway.



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Response to Sloumeau (Reply #23)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 07:18 AM

115. When BS says he will take on the "establishment" Dems..

 

.. what he is saying is that he is taking on the party that has been a the forefront of Women's, Civil and LGBTQ rights.

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Response to Cha (Reply #115)


Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #1)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 01:22 PM

133. It appears to be based on the accomplishments from that time

 

to the present. Effectiveness. It's one thing to rant on about the Establishment but another thing to deliver.
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Response to Cha (Original post)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 05:38 PM

5. There is essentially one candidate who goes out of his way to marginalize what he characterizes

 

as “establishment” Democrats, implying they are not “real Democrats”, and this is according to HIS definition, which amounts to anyone who doesn’t agree with him
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Response to still_one (Reply #5)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 05:40 PM

6. Excellent post, still_one.. Thank you!

 

We need a Uniter.. and that would be Joe Biden in my View!
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Response to still_one (Reply #5)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 09:22 PM

81. "There is essentially one candidate..."

 

...who went out of his way to marginalize a voter at a meeting...





...who could that be?...
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Response to myohmy2 (Reply #81)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 03:56 AM

95. So let me understand this. Are you agreeing with the right wing talking point?

 

There is a big difference between calling an individual out for spewing right wing LIES, and painting "establishment Democrats" as the bad guys



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Response to myohmy2 (Reply #81)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 06:56 AM

112. Ha! More WhataboutBiden from you.. you can't

 

debate the OP so you resort to the usual "What About Biden" and you didn't even get that right.

Biden is righteously calling out a Lying RW TROLL.
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Response to myohmy2 (Reply #81)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 03:08 PM

144. ...Actually, another candidate sends out others to do in their stead...

 

...When the voters aren't around to answer to those accusations...

...or the candidate isn't around to state the case themselves...




..what was it you were you saying about "venom" earlier?...

..oh yes, i remember...

" "
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Response to Cha (Original post)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 05:47 PM

7. Self reflection is unnecessary...

 

...if you think everything was great before and don't plan to do anything new.

The Establishment is a dominant group or élite that holds power or authority in a nation or in an organisation. It may comprise a closed social group that selects its own members, or entrenched élite structures in specific institutions. One can refer to any relatively small class or group of people that can exercise control as The Establishment. Conversely, in the jargon of sociology, anyone who does not belong to The Establishment may be labelled an "outsider"as opposed to an "insider".
]


[link:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Establishment|



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Response to billpolonsky (Reply #7)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 05:52 PM

9. BS is the "establishment" just bc he's tries to use it as a slur it means

 

nothing..


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Response to billpolonsky (Reply #7)

Tue Jan 21, 2020, 05:58 PM

195. The Democratic Party WON the House Thanks to Nancy

 

Pelosi.. That was NEW.
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Response to Cha (Original post)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 05:48 PM

8. I love Nancy Pelosi!

 

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Response to The Valley Below (Reply #8)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 05:58 PM

10. MeToo :)

 

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Response to The Valley Below (Reply #8)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 06:14 PM

19. Yes, Nancy is a National Treasure.. a Uniter not a Divider..

 

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 06:00 PM

11. Sorry, Senator Bernie Sanders, I love the Democratic Establishment. :)

 

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Response to Sloumeau (Reply #11)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 06:43 AM

106. Yes, the Democratic Establishment lke John Lewis, Nancy Pelosi

 

and all those who fought so hard for our Democracy and Civil Rights for Decades are to honored.. not scorned for someone's agenda.

Mahalo, Sloumeau!
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Response to Cha (Reply #106)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 03:32 PM

148. The minute anyone gets to the point where they have the experience to actually get things done

 

some people try to kneecap them by smearing them as "the establishment." Usually it's done by people who themselves either can't or don't want to do the real work of actually effecting change, but would rather just yell about what needs to be done and blame "the establishment" for not accomplishing it to their satisfaction.
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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #148)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 10:37 PM

163. Precisely, Starfish.. it's another

 

horror show playing out

Thank you!
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Response to Cha (Original post)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 06:00 PM

12. Maybe we take the time to listen to what Sanders actually says

 

When Sanders talks about the "establishment he isn't' referring to Planned Parenthood.
He is not referring to someone's age
He isnt talking about someone's gender.

Seriously, by now we should all understand what Sanders means by the establishment. Sanders literally says what he means in the video posted above. Did no one notice a theme in the list of people he plans on taking on? Especially given that the House plans on repealing a number of the taxes that fund the ACA. That seems way more relevant to a medicare for all speech than when Nancy Pelosi was born.

So this all looks way too close to a straw man.
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Response to booley (Reply #12)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 06:04 PM

14. Oh don't worry, we do understand what he means by the establishment. It's not good.

 

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Response to George II (Reply #14)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 07:05 PM

50. Then what is it?

 

Explain to e what you think Sanders means by Democratic establishment" and maybe provide something that backs that up?

Because anyone who thought Pelosi's age or gender was relevant to the speech Sanders gave is seriously missing the point.
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Response to booley (Reply #50)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 08:22 PM

68. BS doesn't say what it is in the video. It's an applause line.

 

It's a straw man of his making. In the video's context, the term is a reference-less, meaningless buzzword.

If you want to see activists protesting the establishment, just watch the local news.

https://www.mynbc5.com/article/f-35-protests-continue-outside-of-bernie-sanders-office-burlington/28590844





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Response to lapucelle (Reply #68)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 08:39 PM

70. He gave a long list of people and institutions who he says oppose his policies

 

Insurance companies, Republicans, trump, and yes the Democratic establishment

What might all of these have in common when it comes to Medicare for all, for instance?

Maybe something to do with how money trumps the public good? Not to mention a certain political status quo that many want to maintain (even as it hurts millions) Sorry I had thought the context was obvious. IF you think I got the context wrong, by all means, show me the full speech and we can parse through it together.

If you want to see activists protesting the establishment, just watch the local news.


And this isn't?



Or this?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/feb/22/dianne-feinstein-sunrise-movement-green-new-deal

How about this one?

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/politics/elections/2019/11/22/joe-biden-tells-immigration-activist-you-should-vote-trump/4273814002/

I can tell you a big difference from the establishment. Sanders will actually LISTEN to protesters. He won't' condescend. He won't brush them off with "You didn't' vote for me" or "vote for trump"

I also admit I am c0nfused. IF you are genuinely against military spending, isn't Warren a bit of a problem for you? Really all the Contenders are more problematic on this issue than Sanders.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to booley (Reply #70)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 11:00 PM

84. A publicity stunt at Speaker Pelosi's office isn't local news...

 

...it's a publicity stunt.

If a politician with a quarter of a century as a Washington insider has a long laundry list of those with whom he is aggrieved, then the problem is likely with the politician.

Democratic Speaker Pelosi has a remarkable list of accomplishments in her years in Washington. She knows how to work hard and get things done. Unfortunately, it is a skill set not every legislator bothers to acquire and cultivate.



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Response to lapucelle (Reply #84)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 04:32 AM

96. Bit of a double standerd there

 

When people protest at a Sanders office, they are grassroots

When people do ti at Pelosi's office, it's a publicity stunt.

That seems like a rather self-serving rationalization.

Dont' even care WHY they were protesting at her office.

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to booley (Reply #96)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 06:07 AM

100. "When people protest at Sanders office, they are grassroots"

 

I don't understand this. What protests? Sanders is the one who always calls things grassroots.
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Response to booley (Reply #96)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 08:21 AM

117. BS's own constituants protesting 10+ weekends against a BS program

 

that HE imposed on them despite its negative impact on the quality of THEIR proximate environment and everyday lives exemplifies grassroots activism at its best: the people taking on the political establishment.

Not me. Us, indeed.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/10/bernie-sanders-faces-backlash-over-war-machine-he-brought-to-vermont.html

******************************************************************************

Dubious organizations grandstanding in a hall near Speaker Pelosi's office in the interest of staging self-serving, one-off, instagram-ready photo-ops borders on astroturfing.

It's not a "double standerd". It's a distinction with a difference.

******************************************************************************



https://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/expenditures.php?cycle=2018&cmte=C00674697

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Response to lapucelle (Reply #117)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 08:39 AM

118. Brilliant post, lapucelle. Thank you for laying

 

out so well, the difference between constituents, in BS' home state, protesting for over 2 months against the "war machine he brought to Vermont"...

And.. "Dubious organizations grandstanding in a hall near Speaker Pelosi's office in the interest of staging self-serving, one-off, instagram-ready photo-ops borders on astroturfing".

I had no idea this was going on.. "Antiwar candidate Bernie Sanders faces backlash over the $1.2 trillion war machine he brought to Vermont".. Thanks for bringing it to our attention!

Nice touch with the "Not me. Us, indeed."

Well Done!
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Response to Cha (Reply #118)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 09:03 AM

119. And there's this as well.

 

Bernie Sanders is wrong — twice — in claim about defense budget voting record

Our Ruling
In a campaign video that has been viewed almost 320,000 times on Twitter alone, Sanders made the statement that he has voted against all of Trump’s defense budgets and that he is the only candidate in the Democratic primary to do so.

It is true the Vermont senator has publicly opposed all of the president’s military spending packages, but he has not voted against all of them. Sanders is also wrong to say he is the only candidate in the Democratic primary who has voted against the proposals. In fact, Gabbard is the only candidate who can make that claim.

We rate this statement as False.




https://www.politifact.com/vermont/statements/2019/dec/20/bernie-sanders/bernie-sanders-wrong-twice-claim-about-defense-bud/
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Response to lapucelle (Reply #119)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 09:17 AM

122. "Bernie Sanders is wrong -- twice -- in claim about defense budget voting record"

 

How can BS be so "wrong"?! Why would he say "Wrong" things?!

Bernie Sanders is wrong — twice — in claim about defense budget voting record

Our Ruling

In a campaign video that has been viewed almost 320,000 times on Twitter alone, Sanders made the statement that he has voted against all of Trump’s defense budgets and that he is the only candidate in the Democratic primary to do so.

It is true the Vermont senator has publicly opposed all of the president’s military spending packages, but he has not voted against all of them. Sanders is also wrong to say he is the only candidate in the Democratic primary who has voted against the proposals. In fact, Gabbard is the only candidate who can make that claim.

We rate this statement as False.

https://www.politifact.com/vermont/statements/2019/dec/20/bernie-sanders/bernie-sanders-wrong-twice-claim-about-defense-bud

Wow.. what if there were no one checking up on these statements?!

Mahalo, lapucelle
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Response to lapucelle (Reply #119)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 05:45 PM

152. Thank you!

 

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Response to lapucelle (Reply #119)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 08:35 PM

158. Fact checkers that contradict Senator Sanders are suspect and in the pocket of

 

big something or other.

They are clearly trying to tear him down because REASONS.

Don't you KNOW that??????




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Response to lapucelle (Reply #84)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 03:21 PM

146. Sometimes I just have to wonder if it's just plain envy on the part of her haters. (nt)

 

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Response to lapucelle (Reply #68)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 06:23 AM

103. Ha!.. BS gets protested for..

 

F-35 protests to continue outside of Sanders' office

BURLINGTON, Vt. —
Activists are expected to gather outside Sen. Bernie Sanders' office for the 10th straight week to protest his support of bringing F-35 fighter jets to Burlington International Office.

https://www.mynbc5.com/article/f-35-protests-continue-outside-of-bernie-sanders-office-burlington/28590844

Not a good look for mr green new deal How "establishment" is that?!

Mahalo, lapucelle
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Response to Cha (Reply #103)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 06:26 AM

104. Oh my!

 

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Response to betsuni (Reply #104)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 06:40 AM

105. Now that's a real protest.. not some grandstanding "publicity stunt"

 

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Response to Cha (Reply #103)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 03:19 PM

145. That's interesting. For many, that would be "disqualifying" in any other candidate. (nt)

 

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #145)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 10:51 PM

164. omg,, YES! BS would be out there BLASTING

 

whomever.

Thank you for that, ehrnst
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Response to Cha (Reply #103)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 05:55 PM

153. From your link.

 

The group is listing eight reasons to cancel the program, including that the city base violates military law, and will increase the risk of a nuclear war.


Other concerns by the activists, including increased noise, have been at the forefront of community conversation for more than a year.


The jets are expected to significantly increase noise heard in Burlington, Winooski and other nearby communities that are located under flight paths.

According to an estimate by the Federal Aviation Association, at least 2,640 homes will experience increased noise through 2023, something that local governments are expecting to decrease the value of both quality of living and homes.


Read this again:something that local governments are expecting to decrease the value of both quality of living and homes.

at least 2,640 homes will experience increased noise through 2023, something that local governments are expecting to decrease the value of both quality of living and homes.


…………………………...

This is about the quality of life and financial security for the citizens of VT.
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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #153)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 07:14 PM

154. When one has ambitions far beyond representing one's home state

 

one's home state inevitably becomes less of a priority.

Or home district.
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Response to ehrnst (Reply #154)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 07:25 PM

156. Sadly, true.

 

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #153)

Tue Dec 24, 2019, 12:01 AM

166. Thank you for that, she! I feel for those people..

 

Those are their homes that are being invaded with NOISE & Toxic Pollution. Killers to life and Peace and Quiet.. which are valued highly by everyone I know.

Like has been said.. if another candidate would be doing this.. BS would be all over it.
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Response to Cha (Reply #166)

Tue Dec 24, 2019, 12:17 AM

169. So much for the Green New Deal.

 

Toxins, noise pollution and stress on the people in VT.

What about their property values, will they be compensated for their loss? What good will a 15 dollar minimum wage increase do them is they lose 10+ thousand on the value of their homes when they try to sell? Who will buy them?
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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #169)

Tue Dec 24, 2019, 12:31 AM

170. Yeah, don't talk to us

 

about a "green new deal" when this toxic poisonous junk is brought to Burlington VT in spite of Protests..

Excellent point about "property values"! omg.. which I'm sure the home owners have thought of, too. yeah, who wants to buy into that?

Mahalo, she Unbelievable! You cannot make this shite up.
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Response to booley (Reply #50)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 09:01 PM

72. Anyone who disagrees with his economic policies.

 

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Response to booley (Reply #50)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 09:57 PM

82. Here:

 

Bernie's whole philosophy is based on the idea that dysfunction in government is caused by money in politics. He wants to be seen as an outsider (and therefore uncorrupted by money in politics) while obviously being a member of the government. He does this by creating a corrupt Establishment beholden to wealthy donors, corporations, lobbyists, Big Pharma, Big Oil, etc., which has abandoned unions and the middle/working class, is the same as Republicans except for "identity politics":

"What being part of the establishment is .. have a super PAC that raised 15 million from Wall St., that throughout one's life raised a whole lot of money from the drug companies and other interests. To my mind, if we do not get a handle on money in politics and the degree to which big money controls the political process in this country, nobody is going to bring about change that is necessary in this country for the middle and working class families." (There are infinite quotes about the establishment just like this)
Creating an enemy (from campaign email) :

"Some of the wealthiest members of the political establishment are hiding behind closed doors -- with their canapes -- plotting to defeat our political revolution."

Way to insult a person or organization not endorsing you:

"We're taking on not only Wall Street and the economic establishment, we're taking on the political establishment. So, I have friends and supporters in the Human Rights Fund and Planned Parenthood. But you know what ... some of these groups are in fact part of the establishment."
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Response to George II (Reply #14)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 06:45 AM

107. Yeah, we've been paying attention for years.

 

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Response to booley (Reply #12)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 06:09 PM

15. Yes, good assessment

 

Thanks to the OP for the video, but the OP's commentary is unnecessarily dismissive of the ideas expressed in the video.
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Response to KSNY (Reply #15)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 07:15 PM

56. Yes, and its so absurdly dismissive

 

Anyone who watches the video can figure out what the OP is saying has nothing to do with what Sanders was saying.

Its such an obvious straw man.
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Response to booley (Reply #12)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 06:09 PM

16. This isn't about "age".. the OP is saying BS

 

and Nancy have been in Congress the same amount of time and happen to be the same age.. "and he wants to take her on?!"

BS blankets everyone with "establishment" who doesn't support him.

We need a Uniter like Joe Biden!
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Response to Cha (Reply #16)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 06:15 PM

20. +1000

 

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Response to Cha (Reply #16)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 07:13 PM

54. Did you read the OP?

 

I can understand maybe you didn't' know you could watch the video but the tweet that is responding to it is right there.

Let me help you by pointing it out

"Establishment Democrat," was elected the same year as Bernie & is the same age. There were only 35 women in Congress. She rose to Speaker. Bernie rose to senator of the 2nd least populous state.


So what doe sit say?
Pelosi is as the same age as Sanders
Pelosi is one of "Only 35 women in Congress"

The OPs author then brings up Planned PArenthood, and race and impeachment.

What does any of that have to do with the disconnect between the popularity for Medicare ofor All versus why it has so much opposition in Congress?

Let's make this simple.. if the OP wasn't about Pelosi's age and gender, why does it lead with that? Why doesnt the tweet nor the OP address what Sanders said in the video it's linked too?


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Response to booley (Reply #54)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 09:20 PM

79. You don't "understand" anything about me.. stop trying to act

 

like you do.

This is about emphasizing that BS and Nancy started out at the same time and Nancy as an Established Dem has accomplished Way More than BS has.

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Response to Cha (Reply #79)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 04:34 AM

97. You're right, I dont' know you. And you dont' know me

 

All I know about you is what you have been saying here.

And what you have been saying here makes no sense in relation to the tweet or the video.

I asked what I thought wa sa very simple question?

if the OP wasn't about Pelosi's age and gender, why does it lead with that? Why doesnt the tweet nor the OP address what Sanders said in the video it's linked too?
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Response to booley (Reply #97)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 04:38 AM

99. Your Distraction about "AGE" is NOT Working.

 

that's what I know.
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Response to booley (Reply #54)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 12:17 AM

87. She wrote the damn OP.

 

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Response to lapucelle (Reply #87)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 01:06 AM

92. omg

 

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Response to lapucelle (Reply #87)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 04:37 AM

98. Yes I know

 

But I wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt that maybe she just didnt' read what she was posting.

The alternative is less flattering.
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Response to booley (Reply #98)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 06:09 AM

101. "maybe she just didn't read what she was posting"

 

How is that possible?
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Response to betsuni (Reply #101)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 06:53 AM

110. It's not. It's evident the poster

 

doesn't understand the OP by the way he's giving his interpretation.

Thanks, betsuni;candle:
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Response to lapucelle (Reply #87)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 06:50 AM

109. lol!

 

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Response to lapucelle (Reply #87)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 07:41 PM

157. IKR?

 

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Response to booley (Reply #12)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 06:31 PM

31. I don't even comment on Bernie Posts here

 

it's not worth it. He isn't a favorite, any positive mention will be met with many angry negatives.
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Response to RazBerryBeret (Reply #31)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 06:12 AM

102. That's right.. many of us don't like

 

the divisiveness he's always saying about our Democratic Party.
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Response to booley (Reply #12)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 06:49 AM

108. Your post is trying to distract from what the

 

OP is about.

I don't expect BS supporters to get it.. BS can try to "take on" Nancy Pelosi and all those he labels "establishment" but we fight back.

Nancy is particularly excellent at that.
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Response to booley (Reply #12)

Fri Jan 10, 2020, 09:33 PM

189. We know BS by.. thanks anyway.

 

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 06:02 PM

13. Excellent tweet and post! Establishment Democrats made our party what it is today, and....

 

....despite the expected pushback (of which I really don't care) we have the best party in the country.
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Response to George II (Reply #13)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 06:13 PM

18. The video refers to the "establishment's" opposition to single payer healthcare

 

This is partly due to the influence of corporate money and that of pharmaceutical and health-insurance companies' lobbyists.
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Response to KSNY (Reply #18)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 06:19 PM

21. Bull. Biden's Health plan is favored by more Voters and he's

 

ahead in the polls. We're here to beat trump not go for BS' mfa.

BS' "corporatist" meme.. has lost all meaning.

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Response to Cha (Reply #21)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 06:52 PM

41. Biden's plan is favored over Medicare for all? Citation?

 

Maybe but this is the first I am hearing it.
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Response to booley (Reply #41)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 03:45 PM

149. Here you go:

 

KFF polling has found broader support for more incremental changes to expand the public health insurance program in this country including a government-administered public option (66%) and for proposals that expand the role of public programs like Medicare and Medicaid (Figure 15 and Figure 16).


https://www.kff.org/slideshow/public-opinion-on-single-payer-national-health-plans-and-expanding-access-to-medicare-coverage/

You're welcome.
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Response to KSNY (Reply #18)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 06:21 PM

22. The "Establishment" isn't against single payer and it's NOT partly due to the influence...

 

...of corporate money. That's simply a smokescreen for a flawed plan.

What the "Establishment" is against is that the ONLY acceptable plan is "single payer". It's not just the "Establishment", it's the majority of the people who live in this country. To the "Establishment" it is NOT a case of all or nothing. If the "Establishment" went along with that we wouldn't have the ACA today.
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Response to KSNY (Reply #18)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 06:34 PM

34. Do you have any proof?

 

that corporate money and that of pharmaceutical and health-insurance companies is the reason? I mean, that's a pretty slanderous assumption.
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Response to OldRed2450 (Reply #34)


Response to OldRed2450 (Reply #34)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 07:09 PM

53. sure, the context of the video

 

and the decades-long record of Democratic administrations (Clinton, Obama) which did not even put single payer on the table when proposing health-care legislation. I'm not attacking anyone, just pointing out that in the context of the video, Sanders mentions the democratic party's reluctance to provide the type of health care Americans deserve.
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Response to OldRed2450 (Reply #34)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 07:30 PM

60. Exactly how is that slanderous in a legal sense? n/t

 

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Response to KSNY (Reply #18)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 07:01 PM

49. No, that's why Republicans oppose any attempt at universal health care.

 

They are the party against regulating industries like pharmaceutical and insurance companies.
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Response to KSNY (Reply #18)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 07:14 PM

55. Agreed. An inconvenient truth for some. And certainly Not

 

a right-wing talking point as some would claim.
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Response to KSNY (Reply #18)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 01:27 PM

134. Is it possible that they don't think

 

it's a good idea, don't think it will work for this size country, don't think it can get through with the system's tilt towards conservatives or various other reasons you don't agree with; why it is always necessary to make it about the campaign funding? You really believe every representative works directly in the interests of whoever funds them (which would be tough, given that could represent many opposing interests) and that's what you'd do if you were elected?
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Response to George II (Reply #13)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 06:26 PM

27. Of which there are two essentially.

 

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Undecided

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Response to George II (Reply #13)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 09:42 AM

123. Yeah, BS ignores all that the Brilliant Achievements that the Dem Party has Accomplished

 

and goes straight to "Establishment" "Establishment" "Establisment" with some "corporatist" "corporatist" thrown in there for added insult.

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 06:24 PM

25. Besides Bernie can't walk in high heels. Nor look as good.

 

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primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to YOHABLO (Reply #25)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 06:27 PM

28. Looks have nothing to do with this.. Nancy is a Uniter

 

BS is being divisive again.
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Response to Cha (Reply #28)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 06:31 PM

30. Nancy is not running for President of the Untied States.

 

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Response to YOHABLO (Reply #30)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 06:45 PM

39. Really! Joe Biden is.. and he's Uniter, too!

 

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Response to Cha (Reply #39)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 06:59 PM

43. Okay, what ever you say.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to YOHABLO (Reply #43)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 09:09 PM

74. Whatevs.

 

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Response to YOHABLO (Reply #43)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 09:20 PM

80. I speak the truth.. so yeah.

 

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Response to Cha (Reply #80)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 02:47 PM

140. The "whatever" response

 

When someone has no rebuttal, but still wants to think they got the last word, and really told 'em!
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Response to Cha (Reply #39)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 02:36 PM

138. Yeah, he's a uniter. Just look at all the Democrats uniting behind him!!

 

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Undecided

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Response to progressoid (Reply #138)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 10:07 PM

161. Biden sure as hell isn't a divider.

 


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Response to YOHABLO (Reply #30)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 09:07 PM

73. So why is Bernie saying that he's taking on "the Democratic Establishment?"

 

Speaker Pelosi is one of the most powerful, influential and consequential Democrats in decades.
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Response to ehrnst (Reply #73)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 10:20 PM

162. The "Democratic Establshment" is on the Front Lines Fighting

 

Against #45IMPEACHED and corruption in the WH.. but yeah BS is whipping up his fans to take them on.


Mahalo, ehrnst!
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Response to Cha (Original post)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 06:25 PM

26. Nancy opposes MFA and the Green New Deal

 

The Bernie faction of the Party support MFA and the Green New Deal …. We can belong in the same party and have differing points of views on major issues ….The Dem "Establishment" have hastened yet another huge increase in the Defense Budget as well as the birth of Space Force ...The healthcare industry have won another round of legislative victories ……
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Response to ritapria (Reply #26)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 06:33 PM

33. So! Nancy wants to WIN and thinks Building on ACA/:Obamacare

 

is the best way to GO. I agree! Nancy should know.. that's how she helped Win the Midterms in 2018. She is a National Treasure and a Uniter.

Dems all want what's best for our Planet..

We need a Uniter like Joe Biden.. not someone who is Divisive.
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Response to ritapria (Reply #26)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 06:39 PM

35. Neither of those two, as presented, are practical, sensible, or passable.

 

You're right, we can belong to the same party and have differing points of view on major issues, but MOST of us long-time Democrats don't call those who disagree with us derogatory names.
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Response to ritapria (Reply #26)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 11:05 PM

165. But when Pelosi disagrees with someone, she just says they have a difference of opinion

 

She doesn't accuse them of being a sellout or lacking in values.
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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #165)

Tue Dec 24, 2019, 12:06 AM

167. +1

 

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 06:30 PM

29. "Establishment" as a derogatory term is such a drawback to the Nixon era, it's funny

 

how today's forward-looking "revolutionaries" use the word while accusing Democrats of being behind times. It is equally nonsensical whether it comes from 78 year old Bernie or 30 year old AOC.
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Response to beastie boy (Reply #29)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 06:42 PM

37. beastie boy, hahaha.

 

Next thing you know, Bernie will refering to "the establishment" as "a bunch of squares".
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Response to beastie boy (Reply #29)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 06:47 PM

40. Mahalo, beastie!

 

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Response to Cha (Reply #40)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 06:59 PM

44. "Establishment" took me way back, when I was wearing an afro and bell bottom jeans.

 

Aloha, Cha!
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Response to beastie boy (Reply #44)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 07:05 PM

52. I was too white and my hair too blond to ever have a an afro...

 

but I thought they were way cool. I think I need to put some Earth, Wind, and Fire on...
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Response to Sloumeau (Reply #52)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 07:18 PM

57. Technically, I am white too, but some Jews used to don mean afros back then.

 

Shining star for you to see
What your life can truly be!
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Response to beastie boy (Reply #57)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 07:28 PM

59. Hahaha, yes, Seth Rogen has been known to sport a fine looking one of those. :)

 

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Response to beastie boy (Reply #57)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 07:04 AM

114. Well that clears that up!

 

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Response to beastie boy (Reply #44)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 08:44 PM

71. Oh yeah.. Groovy!

 

Aloha, BB!
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Response to Cha (Original post)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 06:32 PM

32. "Us" and "Them": Democrats are lumped in with Trump/Republicans and evil corporations as "Them."

 

And of course the longest and loudest cheering is for going after establishment Democrats.

Will someone please tell these people that the reason President Obama couldn't be "transformative" and "FDR" was total Republican obstruction and not because Democrats don't fight and are bought off? Are they seeing all that the Democrat-controlled Congress is doing? Well, I suppose the superior smug warm feeling of being an "Us" against those corrupt Democrats makes people feel good.
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Response to betsuni (Reply #32)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 06:40 PM

36. You said it, betsuni! :)

 

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Response to betsuni (Reply #32)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 09:10 PM

75. Thank you.

 

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Response to betsuni (Reply #32)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 01:21 AM

93. Yeah.. he is fooling NO ONE.

 



Thank you for this excellent post!
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Response to Cha (Original post)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 06:45 PM

38. How odd that you are calling Planned Parenthood an Establishment Democrat. You know

 

PP is not a person and it's not a part of the Democratic party. Nice stretch.
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Undecided

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Response to Autumn (Reply #38)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 06:53 PM

42. He did however call them part of the Establishment. nt

 

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #42)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 07:00 PM

48. He didn't say anything about Planned Parenthood in that clip. And PP is not

 

an "Establishment Democrat," and he said nothing about age. Nice stretch there too.
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Response to Autumn (Reply #48)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 07:05 PM

51. Not in that clip.

 

However, are you denying that he indeed said PP is part of the Establishment?

PS. I was addressing his words from the past. I was not addressing age.
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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #51)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 07:21 PM

58. I'm certainly denying that he said PP is part of the Establishment in the clip the OP posted.

 

Because it's not there but the OP infers it. Age and Bernie "saying" PP is an "Establishment Democrat" is the big part of the OP I replied to. That's not in the clip the OP posted. For that matter, Bernie didn't even call Pelosi an "Establishment Democrat", the OP did.
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Response to Autumn (Reply #38)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 10:42 PM

83. OP: "Planned Parenthood is the 'establishment' ... ."

 

Bernie: "We're taking on not only Wall Street and the economic establishment, we're taking on the political establishment. So, I have friends and supporters in the Human Rights Fund, in Planned Parenthood. But you know what ... some of these groups are in fact part of the establishment."

Neither the OP or Bernie called Planned Parenthood an "Establishment Democrat."
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Response to Autumn (Reply #38)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 12:26 AM

89. SHE DIDN'T CALL PLANNED PARENTHOOD AN ESTABLISHMENT DEMOCRAT.

 

Nice stretch...


******************************************************************************

******************************************************************************

https://upload.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=390604

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Response to lapucelle (Reply #89)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 02:50 PM

141. Yeah, she kind of did. She lumped an organization in with "the Establishment Dems".

 

Planned Parenthood is the "establishment" and so are all the wonderful Dems in the Democratic Black Caucus.. a!nd Rep Adam Schiff and Gerald Nadler... Nancy Pelosi
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Response to Autumn (Reply #141)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 03:05 PM

142. That's actually using the term in a way that points out how "non-establishment" they really are.

 

It's called irony.

Ironic statements (verbal irony) often convey a meaning exactly opposite from their literal meaning. In ironic situations (situational irony), actions often have an effect exactly opposite from what is intended.


https://www.dailywritingtips.com/what-is-irony-with-examples/

You see, the Black Congressional Caucus is progressive, and under fire from conservatives, as is Planned Parenthood.

You're welcome!
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Response to Autumn (Reply #141)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 03:07 PM

143. She included the unfortunately telling "PP is the establishment" gaffe

 

made by a candidate in the last cycle.

There is nothing in the post "lumping in" an organization with individuals.

So no, she absolutely didn't.



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Response to Autumn (Reply #38)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 02:46 PM

139. +1

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 07:00 PM

46. Hey!

 

Don't dis Vermont. We cancel out Wyoming's two Rethuglican Senators. No maple syrup for you!

And yes...we have more Senators than Reps and like it that way.
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Response to Cha (Original post)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 07:00 PM

47. That should burn anyone with a shred of self-awareness

 

Thanks Cha.
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Response to Cha (Original post)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 07:42 PM

61. The Internet is singing with multiple memes of Nancy socking it to the Establishment, & looking good

 

and classy and in charge while doing it!

Bernie? I s’pose there’s a picture of him shouting and pounding a podium somewhere.
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Response to Cha (Original post)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 07:43 PM

62. If you've been in Congress for 35 years and you're NOT "establishment," you're doing it wrong

 

Since the whole point is to make change so that your way IS the established way of doing things. If you've been there for 35 years and you're still on the outside yelling and shaking your fist at the people who have moved past you and are working to actually get things done, you haven't been very successful, have you?

I am so not impressed with the railing against the "Establishment" by people who still haven't managed, after all these years, to actually figure out how to establish effect real change.
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Response to Cha (Original post)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 07:47 PM

63. Thanks a million establishment Dems! We wouldn't be where we are today without ya!

 

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Undecided

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Response to jalan48 (Reply #63)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 01:03 AM

90. We've IMPEACHED trump with the Democratic

 

House Victory in 2018.

Establishment Dems have accomplished More than BS has.
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Response to Cha (Original post)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 07:47 PM

64. I support Nancy Pelosi and the Democratic Party

 

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #64)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 10:32 AM

126. Yes, I support the "Establishment" that BS is

 

dragging on.

We need a Uniter Not a Divider to be our candidate.
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Response to Cha (Original post)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 07:48 PM

65. +1

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 08:04 PM

67. Nice infighting here.

 

This will really help the Democrats defeat the orange asshole. Not sure what is going on, but this all looks really bad.

The optics are really, really bad. Fighting among ourselves ensures a repub win. Not what we want, am I correct?

I guess I don't know the answer. To me, however, it looks bad - sure to turn off some voters.
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Response to warmfeet (Reply #67)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 08:22 PM

69. Yes, its pathetic.

 

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Undecided

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Response to warmfeet (Reply #67)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 09:12 PM

77. So you obvilusly missed this

 

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287390375

SAnders is openly ATTACKING the D party, just in time to fuck us real good for the election.
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Response to Cha (Original post)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 09:11 PM

76. Compare their records of achievement also...the results are stunning.

 

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 09:13 PM

78. K&R. Thanks, Cha!

 

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 11:17 PM

85. He's a year and a half younger

 

Just sayin'.
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Response to Polybius (Reply #85)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 01:05 AM

91. Yeah, I knew that.. but this is about

 

BS and Nancy starting out back then and what she's accomplished and what he's accomplished and "he's going after her".
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Response to Cha (Original post)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 11:18 PM

86. So tired of that guy.

 

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 12:24 AM

88. Bernie is losing it

 

He is besmirching some of our greatest leaders for a selfish personal gain. Not a good look.

Californians love Speaker Pelosi far far more than the out-of-state non-Democrat. Not very astute politically.
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Response to Cha (Original post)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 06:56 AM

111. So it all comes down to if you want status quo, vote Joe. If you want a better way, vote Warren or

 

Sanders. And please stop dissing Sanders.
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Response to brutus smith (Reply #111)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 07:00 AM

113. BS Disses himself. We call him out. There are no "status quo"

 

candidates.. that's just something divisive that BS pushes.

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Response to brutus smith (Reply #111)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 07:33 AM

116. Status quo right now is Trump and Republicans.

 

Please stop dissing Democrats with the "both sides" thing. Warren or Sanders would have to deal with Republicans the same way any other Democratic president would. FDR had large majorities in the House and a Depression that made obstruction by Republican impossible if they wanted to be reelected. It is 2019.
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Response to betsuni (Reply #116)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 11:00 AM

127. I didn't diss any Dems. Nice try tho!

 

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Undecided

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Response to brutus smith (Reply #127)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 12:57 PM

130. Yes, you did: "if you want status quo, vote Joe"

 

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Response to LongtimeAZDem (Reply #130)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 01:16 PM

131. Aaaaa, no I didn't. I made an observation

 

And if you think Repubs in any way want to work with Dems, you need to pay attention to current events.
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Response to brutus smith (Reply #111)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 01:32 PM

135. Status quo is another such term

 

We are often stuck with it, as the system favors those who don't want change. Look at how hopeless it seems to get rid of the Electoral College. Health care could pass but only if there are enough Democrats, including Establishment ones. It's not the Democrats that prevent single payer, but the Republicans. This kind of critique pretends Republicans don't exist and don't have disproportionate power due to rural land getting more say than city people.
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Response to Cha (Original post)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 09:05 AM

120. Thank You!!!

 

It is time to stand up for our leaders that are standing up for us.. thank you Cha!!
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Response to Peacetrain (Reply #120)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 10:07 AM

124. Exactly well put, Peacetrain! "It's time to stand up for our

 

leaders who are standing up for us"!

I see your OP is 'causing quite a bit of commotion.. that "establishment" word sure has a lot of people bamboozled..
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Response to Cha (Original post)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 09:12 AM

121. Yeah, lots of luck with that Bernie.

 

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Response to cwydro (Reply #121)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 11:14 AM

128. Why is being an establishement Democrat a bad thing?

 

I am proud to be a member of the Democratic Party
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Response to Gothmog (Reply #128)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 11:17 AM

129. I completely agree.

 

I think Bernie is barking up the wrong tree.

He benefits from the Democratic Party, and then he turns around and attacks them. Ugh.

I too am proud to be a member of the Democratic Party. That’s why I’m saying good luck to him (sarcastically). Trying to bite the hand that feeds him. Smh.
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Response to cwydro (Reply #129)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 04:35 PM

150. +1

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 01:21 PM

132. When will he take on the Republicans?

 

That's what I would love to know.

If he got the nom., would he just crow about taking out the Democratic Establishment? And not bother to beat Dotard?
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Response to treestar (Reply #132)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 09:15 PM

159. Well, Biden's taking on trump NOW!

 



Mahalo, treestar
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Response to Cha (Reply #159)

Tue Dec 24, 2019, 10:18 AM

171. +1

 

Aloha Cha!
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Response to Cha (Original post)

Tue Dec 24, 2019, 12:12 AM

168. Divisive rhetoric

 

The goal is to inflame the supporters and not try to get new supporters. Demonize a whole subset to make them hate the eventual nominee to set up an "I told you so" moment.

Bernie's rhetoric is stale and he is unsuccessful in attracting anyone new while he has lost more than half his prior support. So now he is trying to demonize the Democratic party to inflict pain and anger instead of any persuasive argument.
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Response to NYMinute (Reply #168)

Tue Dec 24, 2019, 07:44 PM

174. Way too Diviive! It never ends.

 

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Tue Dec 24, 2019, 03:06 PM

173. I stand with Spezker Pelosi

 


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Response to Cha (Original post)

Tue Dec 24, 2019, 08:13 PM

176. And there it is

 


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Response to underthematrix (Reply #176)

Tue Dec 24, 2019, 08:21 PM

177. Thank you for this, underthematrix!

 

This is absolutely fascinating. The DEMOCRATIC ESTABLISHMENT is the most diverse caucus ever which means he's talking about taking on black and brown political leadership.

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Response to Cha (Reply #177)

Wed Dec 25, 2019, 01:47 AM

178. Thank you. I really really try to avoid criticizing any of the candidates but

 

Last edited Wed Dec 25, 2019, 03:06 AM - Edit history (1)

this was something I had to respond to. Our BEST protection, as voters against emo-politics is to read read read and to think critically about what we read.
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Response to underthematrix (Reply #176)

Wed Dec 25, 2019, 02:15 AM

179. +1

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Dec 25, 2019, 03:50 PM

180. I like being an Establishment Democrat

 

I am a proud member of the Democratic Party

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #180)

Wed Dec 25, 2019, 04:36 PM

181. Thank you for that, Goth.. it shows

 

how ridiculous "taking on the Dem Establishment" is.

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Response to Cha (Reply #181)

Wed Dec 25, 2019, 11:04 PM

182. It takes years of hard work to earn a slot to the National Convention

 

I have spent years working inside the party to turn Texas blue and we are making progress. I am proud of being part of the Democratic Party
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #182)

Wed Dec 25, 2019, 11:36 PM

183. And, most of us Appreciate all the diligence of Dems who

 

consistently work for the helping The People.. Thank You!

BS ignores the accomplishments of the Democratic "Establishment".. I'm beyond tried of him attempting to make it a dirty word.. he's Not going to do it.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Thu Dec 26, 2019, 12:11 AM

184. If the Democratic Establishment is so terrible, why'd they impeach Trump?

 

We're supposed to believe that Democrats are the biggest roadblock to progress and rig everything and let Republicans push the party to the Right for the last 40 years and are the same as them, yet they impeached a Republican president? Why? I guess for the same reason rich evil oligarchs donate to Democrats even though every candidate wants to repeal Citizens United and raise taxes on corporations and the wealthy -- obviously if they were against that they'd donate to Republicans.

Can't keep track in world.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to betsuni (Reply #184)

Thu Jan 2, 2020, 06:54 AM

188. We're not suppose to notice

 

that.. our intelligence is insulted most days.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Mon Jan 20, 2020, 03:43 AM

191. Nancy Pelosi!

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Mon Jan 20, 2020, 04:21 AM

192. K&R

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Mon Jan 20, 2020, 09:03 AM

193. I WISH we were a country where Pelosi and Planned Parenthood were "establishment" (nt)

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #193)

Mon Jan 20, 2020, 07:43 PM

194. Amen!

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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