MLK had his "Letter from Birmingham", but Sanders has his "Letter from Burlington"...

[George II]

He wrote this when he was in public office, Mayor of the City of Burlington, Vermont, on official stationary:

"What would be a tragedy, however, is for people with a radical vision to fall into the pathetic camp of the intellectually bankrupt Democratic Party."

[PETRUS]

1. MLK was great!

"Call it democracy, or call it democratic socialism, but there must be a better distribution of wealth within this country for all God's children."
-Martin Luther King, Jr.

"If we are going to achieve a real equality, the U.S. will have to adopt a modified form of Socialism."
-Martin Luther King, Jr.

[murielm99]

2. Someone should bring this

into the debates.

[David__77]

3. Lots of change since then, in people and in parties.

Dixiecrats moved on.

[karynnj]

6. This is not about "Dixiecrats" - this is Vermont 1985

The Governor then was Madeleine Kunin, who is absolutely NOT a Dixiecrat. She is an incredible woman, who has done a large amount of work to get women involved in politics. She is still very respected in Vermont. Note that that letter was from before Sanders ran against her from the left. She soundly beat him, but she ended up with 47%, which is less than 50% of the vote requiring the legislature to vote on who should be governor.

In essence, had Bernie been more successful - pulling more of the Democratic vote - could have led to the Republican having the most votes and likely becoming the next Governor. Bernie took 14%.

[boston bean]

8. In 1985?

[David__77]

11. I think George Wallace was still a Democrat then.

Phil Gramm has switched a while before.

I think there’s plenty to reject in the Democratic Party’s past. I think Sanders’ statement was broad brush, and there were plenty of people committed to progressive politics who were Democrats at that time.

[boston bean]

12. Oh god.

Keep grasping.

[ehrnst]

33. However, I'm told that Sanders "never changes" like other candidates who "waffle."

So there's that.

[Scurrilous]

70. By '85 Wallace had repented:

"In the late 1970s, Wallace announced that he was a born-again Christian and apologized to black civil rights leaders for his past actions as a segregationist. He said that while he had once sought power and glory, he realized he needed to seek love and forgiveness. In 1979, Wallace said of his stand in the schoolhouse door: "I was wrong. Those days are over, and they ought to be over." He publicly asked for forgiveness from black people.

"During Wallace's final term as governor (1983–1987) he made a record number of black appointments to state positions, including, for the first time, two black people as members in the same cabinet."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Wallace

[Demsrule86]

16. I see no evidence that Sanders has changed...still has an' I' next to his name and still goes

after the Democratic Party. He has my unwavering support in a general but I doubt he will win.

[David__77]

19. He is a Democratic candidate.

I don’t think he would have taken that approach in 1985. I’m very glad he has. I Want progressives determinedly organizing within the Democratic Party, getting in party organizations, and running for office.

[Blue_true]

73. So things change, except when they apply to Joe Biden.

AmIrite?

[David__77]

74. I think that applies to him as well.

...

[Me.]

4. Well What Does That Make Him

as he uses the Democratic Party every chance he gets

[TexasTowelie]

5. Wow, that is troubling! K&R.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

7. K and R

[Zolorp]

9. I am seeing a big difference in 2020 that I did not see in 2016.

From where I sat, there was absolutely no vetting of Sanders in 2016.

[MH1]

10. "I found your book excellent - far wiser than your letter"

I wonder what was in the letter, that he replied to in such a dismissive way. Urging him to run as a Democrat?

[boston bean]

13. Was just a tad condescending.

[PatSeg]

15. I always liked Bernie,

though I never supported him for president. Now I'm beginning to wonder what kind of person he really is. Former Democratic Vermont governor Peter Shumlin is endorsing Joe Biden:

“What I’ve seen in Bernie’s politics is he and his team feel they’re holier than the rest. In the end, they will play dirty because they think that they pass a purity test that Republicans and most Democrats don’t pass,” said Shumlin. “What you’re seeing now is, in the end, even if he considers you a friend, like Elizabeth Warren, Bernie will come first. That’s the pattern we’ve seen over the years in Vermont, and that’s what we are seeing now nationally.”

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/16/bernie-sanders-elizabeth-warren-feud-100129

How was he not vetted more thoroughly in 2016? Of course, I realize it is because the media 1) did not believe he was a viable candidate, and 2) they were so obsessed with Donald Trump and Hillary's emails.

[Demsrule86]

18. Sanders didn't lift a finger to help the Democrats win the Governor's race...now they have

a GOP Governor.

[TNNurse]

31. I will vote for him in the general

but he has always been a Democrat of convenience....for him. He does not do it for the party in other elections, just for him.

[Demsrule86]

47. I agree...

[thesquanderer]

37. Do many Senators campaign for their state's governors?

In my experience, officials from state and federal gov't rarely mix.

[Demsrule86]

48. Sherrod Brown did and he campaigned for other Democrats as well.

https://apnews.com/58547988a1924addb89f8dd2d3537e39

"Democrats know that in a midterm election, which tends to favor the out-of-power party, and with an open governorship because Republican incumbent John Kasich is term-limited, this is their best opportunity in years to turn that tide.

Brown has been campaigning in the final week for other Democrats on the ballot and has made fundraising appeals for Democratic governor nominee Richard Cordray. He is transferring $300,000 from a Brown-led fundraising committee to help other Democrats. He has raised $2 million for Ohio Democrats in the current two-year election cycle, while raising more than $27 million for his own campaign.

“I think people want change,” Brown said in an AP interview before his third Senate debate, at Miami University. “I think people see corruption in Columbus, and the rich getting tax cuts. I think that’s going to affect voters up and down the ticket.”

Brown said he wants Cordray, a former federal consumer watchdog, as “my partner” in standing up to Wall Street."

[PatSeg]

56. Sherrod Brown is a wonderful Democrat

No one person can change the world alone. Well, only in their dreams I suppose.

[Demsrule86]

60. Yes he is...and those who think they can change the world alone are wrong.

[PatSeg]

55. That's unsettling

Can we take that was a preview of how Sanders will help other Democrats in the 2020 election. We need to focus on down ballot races, both state and local.

[Demsrule86]

62. I don't think Sanders will help with down ballot...particularly in the Senate...can't see him

helping with Georgia, Arizona, Carolina, Maine...nor the house...as moderates are running who gave us the House.

[PatSeg]

63. Apparently the senator

doesn't fully understand how lasting change happens. It takes more than ONE person with progressive ideas. As president, Sanders would need a supportive Senate and House to make his dreams reality.

[Demsrule86]

66. He like someone else plans to bend them to his will I suppose but Democrats won't go down that road.

He needs to be able to work with Congress...

[PatSeg]

68. That hideous thought

popped into my head. Meanwhile, Sanders has been in government long enough to know that presidents need to know how to negotiate, compromise, and even use diplomacy to make change happen. Then there is the matter of foreign relations. How will he work with our allies? My way or the highway? I think we've seen enough of that to last a lifetime.

[Demsrule86]

71. Yes we have seen enough of that...time for ...hope and change Biden style.

[PatSeg]

72. Hopefully

I think he is the right person for this moment.

[PatSeg]

14. A letter that is over 30 years old?

Normally, I would not consider it significant and I wouldn't want to be judged in 2020 by something I did or said in 1985. However, Bernie's attitude about the Democratic party does not seem to have changed very much.

Of course, Bernie could change this perception by showing more support for the Democratic party that he tends to adopt when it is politically convenient. As Rachel always says, "Pay attention to what they do, not what they say".

[dusk]

20. Well I have seen posts here quoting Joe on busing from 1975,

and just today, abortion from 1981.

Perhaps Bernie’s people here can post some examples on how he has “evolved” on this issue since 1985?

[PatSeg]

57. Yes, wouldn't that be nice?

Welcome to DU!

[tishaLA]

23. One of the flies in the ointment is that

supporters of BS always talk about how consistent he's been for 40 or 50 years. That would have to include his feelings about the Democratic Party and, say, his support of Iranian theocrats holding Americans hostage.

[PatSeg]

58. Oops

Guess that wasn't such a great attribute!

[ehrnst]

25. Yes, Sanders supporters are attacking Biden for things said 45 years ago. (nt)

[George II]

26. Right here, just yesterday afternoon, from 1974:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=429320

[PatSeg]

59. I think that political operatives

tend to put their blinders on when they do opposition research and don't always realize how ridiculous some of their attacks are. And would their candidate be able to survive the same intense scrutiny?

[dalton99a]

17. He still hasn't changed a damn bit

in how he views the party he wants to represent

[GemDigger]

21. If digging up Bernies past is not ok then why is it ok for Bernies party to dig up Bidens past?

Just wondering.

[Hortensis]

39. Go to it. You have to understand, though, that Biden's

past strongly reflects the feelings of most Democrats of his time. You can imagine you're digging nothing but dirt all you want, but what you're digging is our history through changing and often very difficult and challenging times. Almost all of Biden's time in government has been in an era of conservative domination, when we've too often been unable to do more than stop the GOP from destroying everything we've achieved, including recently the ACA.

Sanders, in contrast to Biden's consistent representation of the Democratic mainstream, has learned to hide, soft pedal, and blatantly misrepresent beliefs he was more honest about long ago because they've always repelled most Democrats. And that's why revealing more about him these days keeps upsetting his more devoted followers. They didn't know that about him, don't want to know it, and want all the people he's despised and insulted all his life to admire him just as they do.

And that's just not going to happen. The Real Bernie Sanders is a flavor for a little niche market who imagine calling people like me intellectually bankrupt, Tweedledee to the Republicans' Tweedledum , must mean he's clever and insightful. Most of us see it as instead proving him the very opposite, bizarrely so.

[The Valley Below]

22. I'm fairly certain that I've read that Sanders' unwavering consistency over 40 years

is among his greatest features, according to his followers.

[ehrnst]

24. Indeed. Rocks on other candiates from much longer ago than that are being overturned.

[George II]

27. Someone posted an OP bashing Biden for something he said 46 years ago!!

[NYMinute]

28. Oh. Em. Gee.

There it is in black and white. This guy hates the Democratic party.

[ehrnst]

32. I understand that Bernie "does not change" and is therefore "constant as the north star"

This might be problematic for those who think this...

[thesquanderer]

42. He could still think exactly the same about the Dem party as it was in 1985...

...regardless of what he would say (positive and/or negative) about the Dem party today. So no, not problematic.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

29. Please do not compare anything Sanders writes to anything MLK wrote.

[George II]

34. I did that to demonstrate the sharp contrast between the two letters, and the resulting irony.

[NCProgressive]

30. I think Sanders hould drop out

Form his own party, make it successful with his "grassroots" donors and then run again in 2028. He would be a shoe-in.

[Politicub]

35. There was a lot of awful, terrible legislation passed in the early 80s

Not that I'm trying to excuse what Sanders said. But his opinion needs to be understood as a product of its time.

To this day, we are still being fucked over by legislation from the Reagan era. Democrats were the majority in the House of Representatives for both of Reagan's terms, and their votes were necessary for Reagan's policies to get enough votes to go to the senate for a vote.

[George II]

38. And yet he's attacking the Democratic Party, not the republican party.

[relayerbob]

36. And he continues this right to this day

... with the added hypocrisy and opportunism of jumping into the Democratic Party to run for high office only to leave it as soon as he gets done using us for his personal benefit, win or lose.

[LiberalLovinLug]

40. lol

Biden supporters must be desperate.

Can't find any arguments against Sanders platform.....the present platform. Notice they never argue about policy, only what smear they can dig up. Now they are going back 30 years.

Very telling.

[George II]

43. Yeah, right. Not like that doesn't ever happen on this site:

"Biden In 1974....."

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=429320

Quick math - 1974 is eleven years earlier than 1985.

So what were you saying?

[LiberalLovinLug]

50. MLK stubbornly refused to be a Democrat!!! Stuck to being an independent!!!!

Will that be your next OP?

In fact, he sounded a lot like Sanders, the only candidate that actually marched in the same march as he did. Suspiciously sounds like Our Revolution language about the 1%! OMG....WHATABOUT WHATABOUT....

https://kinginstitute.stanford.edu/king-papers/documents/address-religious-leaders-conference-11-may-1959

"A dream of equality of opportunity, of privilege and property widely distributed; a dream of a land where men will not take necessities from the many to give luxuries to the few"


I find this kind what-aboutism a pointless waste of space. As you will always have some insidious needling wanker like me that will immediately pop up with a response and tit for your tat . It doesn't really help much. But on the other hand it is a primary. And any vetting we do in DU is nothing compared to what they will get once nominated. So I don't have any argument with bringing things up, even as Hassen Bin Sober has done. Its still a ways to go. As long as you don't mind hearing a rebuttle.

Obvioulsy Biden has "evolved" on issues, as has Sanders. Wasn't Warren still a Republican at that same time?

Now its possible that Hassen Bin Sober was putting out that comparison because Sanders was accused by others in here that he is a sexist, based on a "trumped" up recent story. In that case, his evidence to the contrary based on Sander's past (in comparison with Biden's) is somewhat relevant, if only to set the record straight.

But IMO to further harp on the old "but but but he's not a Democrat!" angle seems a tad overdone and pointless. Never understood the vitriol some Democratic voters have against him for this. Or even his daring to criticize the Democratic party for things like watering down legislation in the past.

I have faith in Democratic voters to separate the anomaly of his party affiliation decision, with what work he has done and what he stands for. And like MLK, whom he admired, he doesn't need a letter to do good things. In fact, non-afiliation helped MLK get his message out, so he could not be accused of being politically partisan, and that same independence of party will help Sanders...............and here's the kicker............to bring DEMOCRATS into Washington! How whack is that?

[George II]

53. He never tried to run for President as a Democrat.

[LiberalLovinLug]

54. If he had lived, he might very much have run for some office

I wonder which party? His politically active niece is an avowed Trump supporter and Republican.

But maybe he'd have run as an Independent. Or maybe, like Sanders, he'd run as a Democrat but identify as independent. That makes more sense given his record. Who knows?


But all that is moot.
The principle is that admiration and even a grumbling respect should not be withheld from prominent public figures unless they have the "proper" party affiliation. IMO. and maybe its actually a healthy thing, and an advantage for a Presidential candidate, especially in this day.

How does that work anyways? Putting party ahead of principles. Did you respect Jeff Van Drew the day before he switched parties? Who between Van Drew and Sanders has worked to help American workers, the disadvantaged, undocumented immigrants, women's rights, LGTBQ rights more during their terms? Or does than dang letter cancel all of that? I honestly am baffled.

[NYMinute]

69. Sanders' Platform?

Unicorns, pixie dust and flying pigs?

[stopdiggin]

41. got anything more current than 1985?

I am not a Sanders supporter -- but this would certainly appear to be a straight up attack against a leading Democratic figure. Not only extremely dated -- but adding nothing of value to the current discussion. Why are we posting this?

[aeromanKC]

44. Well, at least he used the appropriate ic ending.

So, there is that.

[tiredtoo]

45. Years ago I was a member of the local Occupy Wall Street group

One of their biggest fears was being taken over by the Democratic party, like the tea party was taken over by the republican party.
Think about this for a bit.
In my interpretation of this, it points out the people wanting change way back then. They continued to want change in 2016 when they elected the current clown in the Whitehouse.
If we fail to offer them REAL change, we will more likely than not have the clown for another 4 years.

[Demsrule86]

49. I tried to work with Occupation and found them pretty much useless...they had not clear leadership

and nothing was ever decided or done in a timely manner and now they are gone because they couldn't organize themselves. properly or work with Democrats or anyone really...plenty of them were not Democrats by the way.

[tiredtoo]

51. yep

We had everything from communists to libertarians in our group. A few were former t party people. Just pointing out the publics dismay with the current government. Not just trump, the government for many of the last forty years.

[Demsrule86]

64. Well we haven't had real power since the 94...except for a couple of months after Obama was elected

in 08 so if some stopped not, voting,didn't vote for Greens, having unreal expectationn sitting home, and showed up in the mid terms...might be quite different.

[ehrnst]

65. There is an old saying: Be the change you want to see.

Real change does not happen overnight. Anyone who promises that is selling something. Anyone who believes that will forever be disappointed.

Trump supporters wanted change - in the form of going back in time to when white men were the default. We cannot offer them that kind of change.

No amount of minimum wage hikes or promises of affordable health care, or anything resembling a better life to anyone but their tribe will convince them that those changes are good.

There are too many louder voices (their own information silos) telling them that what they believe they earned will be given to those who "didn't work for it."

The tea party got into power playing the long game - working on school boards, starting local then learning the ropes and becoming effective candidates for congress. If that is distasteful, if doing the drudgework of civic service down at city hall isn't rewarding enough, and a dramatic high profile position like congress or the governor's mansion is the only thing that will make a run for office worthwhile, then they aren't really in it for the public. They're in it for themselves and their own egos, no matter how lefty the claim to be.

Occupy Wall Street endured, but not in the original form of the protest, because THEY changed. They specialized into smaller groups that were far more effective and lasting. Not as dramatic or high profile, but effective nonetheless. That's what real change looks like, even if it seems to be "selling out" to some.

[Bear Creek]

46. Really

1985 not relevant. Ronald Reagan was in office. The democrats caved to the republicans and that did the party in for a long time.

[tiredtoo]

52. Yes, a thousand times yes! eom

[Bear Creek]

67. Sorry

But it is irrelevant. Decades old letter taken out of context. The democrats lost themselves during that time frame. They caved to the republicans.

[ehrnst]

61. So Bernie marching on Washington with MLK is also irrelevant, as is his college activism.

After all, those were even farther in the past, yes?

And those weren't even events during his political career, as was this letter written in public office.

You should tell Senator Sanders that.

Let us know what he says.