Ok, Which of these is worse?. Biden, touching?, Sanders no taxes?

[Stuart G]

Yes, Biden did indeed touch some women. Is that worse, the same, or less of a problem than Sanders not producing his taxes? Sanders said he would produce them "soon" When is "soon" Has he lied about when he is going to produce those taxes?
....Has Biden lied about his touching some women? What has been his response to this. Well, you know his response, basically something like "I will rethink my way of interacting with women"

...So which is worse. Sanders lying about his taxes..not producing them.."soon"
................Or............Biden admitting he touched some women, and saying he will rethink his behavior..

You figure out the answer for you. I know which is worse for me.

[JaneQPublic]

1. Bernie held on to his tax returns "a beat too long." (nt)

[OhZone]

2. Haha

Perfect - perfectly true too.

[NurseJackie]

7. Ha! Love it!

[Eliot Rosewater]

14. One wonders if it will matter, if his tax returns show he has some BIG problems will his

supporters not care and continue to support him anyway?

[BlueWI]

72. I don't know.

So does it clarify anything to speculate on that in advance? Get a dig in at Sanders supporters a little early?

Why not?

[MrsCoffee]

23. Omg...

That was the best DUzy in a long time!

[mikeysnot]

3. Both are bullshit

But let people waste their time. They might not be getting enough attention at home.

[yardwork]

13. I disagree. Lack of transparency re taxes is a problem.

[sheshe2]

61. Yep.

So are promises made and not kept.

Perhaps he is waiting for the tax filling date to make them public. Here in MA that is the day after Patriots Day (state holiday here) and the running of the Marathon.

[mikeysnot]

75. And when he does finally release them

and you find out that he is one of the poorer members of congress without any outside income, then what?

Egg on face. So clutch that pearl.

[yardwork]

82. Um, no. We should be able to expect that our candidates' tax returns are unexceptionable.

I find your post to be sonewhat bizarre, actually. This isn't a sporting match with favorite teams, you know.

[mikeysnot]

85. don't ever recall saying it was?

A bunch pf Bernie bashers will be disappointed when he finally releases them.

He did release one for 2014 and that was the end of that.

[LakeArenal]

86. For you.... lots of folks want to see.

A quest for truth is different than a weak claim of people at a public event.

[mikeysnot]

93. lots of folks....

want to see his long from birth certificate also...

ring a bell?

[Eliot Rosewater]

16. So you are FINE with rump NOT releasing his taxes?

[mikeysnot]

77. We are talking about Bernie here...

not trump. Fuck trump. Making a comparison between the two is disingenuous at best.

Sloppy reasoning at worst.

[Eliot Rosewater]

83. I am confused, why exactly is it OK for one to do it but not the other?

If my candidate wont release tax returns, NO MATTER WHO IT IS, i find a new candidate.

[mikeysnot]

84. Based on some of your post

that makes sense...

[lunamagica]

35. Sander PROMISED. He is not keeping his promise

[mikeysnot]

78. I'm sure you will hold all candidates to the same standards then...Ohh MY GOD!!!

the inhumanity that a politician didn't keep his word regarding his taxes that is no legal barrier to being president...

Light hair on fire, run from the room.

[lunamagica]

80. Why would I believe anything the promises when he can't keep this simple promise?

And yes, I want to see that returns from ALL candidates. It is a question of integrity and transparency

[LanternWaste]

88. No doubt, we have to minimize sacred cows breaking promises

No doubt, we have to minimize sacred cows breaking their promises and pretend it's merely trivial.

(keep moving those goalposts and projecting hysterics that simply do not exist... else you'd have nothing of substance)

[namahage]

4. Why not both?

That would be Donald Trump.

One difference, of course, is that there is no question that Biden has released his taxes.

But so far the question has not yet been raised as to whether Bernie has any instances of “space invasion.”

[Eliot Rosewater]

17. As to your last comment, so far the Democratic field has chosen NOT to go low and dirty, well the

ones with D's after their names anyway.

[MrsCoffee]

24. Well his campaign certainly had some harassment issues that he was too busy to notice...

or something like that. He seems to be too busy for a lot of things.

Maybe he needs some time off.

[Decoy of Fenris]

5. Provisionally, the touching is worse.

Touching is a direct and personal harm, real or imagined, on the receiving end. Sanders not releasing his taxes doesn't directly impact or harm the people around him. I'd rate that of the two, the touching is the greater slight.

The "provision" being that as you mentioned in your post body, Biden has since stated he'd rethink how he interacts with women, or how he'll correct the behavior. That's certainly the correct course of action given circumstances, one that Biden should be lauded for. In relation to Sanders not releasing his taxes, he either will or he won't. At such a time that he never releases his taxes at all, Sanders will have lied, but until that point is reached, "soon" is ephemeral and subjective and he can't be declared a liar with any position of authority, harming no one until after the fact. If he -does- release his taxes, then any harm up to that point will have been imagined (or manufactured) and rendered moot in either case.

As a bit of full disclosure, in my humble opinion the Biden matter should be put to rest entirely. He's apologized profusely, pledged to change, and hopefully all impacted can move on with their lives.

Likewise, those angry about taxes will be just as angry about how long it took Sanders to release them as if he does at all, so I don't see any particular need for haste from Sanders in that regard. "But his taxes" is the new "But her emails" and about half as clever as the Republican meme to boot, a feat I didn't think possible from supposedly-intelligent Democrats, but there it is.

In short, both issues are manufactured bullshit from trolls, probably of dubious nationality.

[BlueFlorida]

8. ...

[yardwork]

15. Didn't you suggest doing something to Hillary Clinton with a brick?

I know I remember that post.

[Decoy of Fenris]

18. I gave a politely phrased suggestion, yes.

You can try to hammer me with that if you want, but that only works if I regret it. I don't. Those were my feelings then, in the moment, and I can't change that no matter if I regret it or not.

What you probably don't know or care to know, is that after the convention I was out there with everyone else, knocking on doors for Clinton. It sure as shit didn't spark joy, but I did it with a genuine smile on my face because that's what was expected of me as a Democrat. I pounded the pavement with hundreds of others, because -what I felt in the past- didn't matter. At that point it was about stopping Trump, no matter the cost, as he posed(s) an existential threat to the nation. I didn't let my bias or my personal feelings get in the way of the greater good of the country, and I didn't let my prior preference taint that at all.

Now, you got anything to say about the post you responded to, or were you just trying to take a cheap shot?

[yardwork]

32. Suggesting violent rape of a woman is not polite wording.

Like it or not, your infamous post is remembered by many here on DU. It's one of posts that marks the lowest point of DU. I'll never forget it, and quite frankly I'll never forgive it, because no apology was ever offered.

[NurseJackie]

38. Jesus! This is helpful information to know and it explains a lot.

I completely understand how you feel... there are some things that I cannot forget, nor forgive. Joking about, or threats of, or wishing rape on someone, or fantasizing about someone being violently raped... that's just beyond the pale. Going forward I'll be viewing the posts of anyone who's guilty of those things in an entirely different (ie: cynical, suspicious and distrusting) light. And the fact that someone does "not regret it" and offer no apology only confirms my feelings of disgust.

[yardwork]

39. But he pounded the pavement for Hillary!!!

"Pounded" being the relevant term.

I'm not interested in being lectured on feminism by somebody who doesn't regret wishing violent rape on the Democratic candidate for president.

[NurseJackie]

40. All things considered... I find it hard to believe.

But he pounded the pavement for Hillary!!!

All things considered... I find it hard to believe.

I'm not interested in being lectured on feminism by somebody who doesn't regret wishing violent rape on the Democratic candidate for president.

I hear ya. Zero remorse. It's disgusting.

[Cha]

46. Thank You for calling him out on

his wishing a heinous act on a woman, yardwork.'

And, he "doesn't regret it". He has no say in Biden's actions, who has apologized for making his accusers feel "uncomfortable".

[yardwork]

53. I rarely call people out but I'm not letting this pass.

Lecturing us about feminism and sensitivity to people when THAT post was made about Hillary Clinton.

The hatred and lies about Clinton in 2016 were unbelievable.

[Cha]

57. Precisely. How

dare he.

[sheshe2]

62. +1000

[betsuni]

49. I'll never forget it. And the reason for the hatred: an imagined "cackle."

[yardwork]

50. It doesn't get any more misogynistic than that.

[LakeArenal]

59. Yardwork, I have come to the conclusion ...

That here on DU, the support of Joe is growing instead of subsiding.

Right here, on DU his percentage has gone up. So whatever you are trying to cast here is catching nothing.

[yardwork]

67. I'm not sure that I understand your post.

Maybe you have mistaken me for another poster. I'm strongly supportive of Joe Biden and I think these attacks on him are ridiculous.

Have I misunderstood your post?

[sheshe2]

63. Nor will I, betsuni.

Un-fugging believable.

[Decoy of Fenris]

69. Your memory seems to be slightly faulty.

"Go fuck yourself" (with or without an object) is certainly not suggesting rape, let alone violent rape, and to suggest it is seems a bit intellectually dishonest and that's not your style. I may be crass from time to time, but I'd never suggest or even hint at rape in a joking manner. That shit's serious.

I respect your objections to the message of course, and would not presume to say your reaction to it is wrongly placed, as emotion is subjective. The same emotion and disgust that drives you to "never forget... and never forgive" is the same emotion that I had when posting that OP years ago. I hope you will at least consider that, even if you don't like it.

Forgiveness has to be sought and I don't seek it. What was said was said, and it can't be unsaid. I know how "forgiveness" works on this board, and there's no such thing. Remember what happened to that one now-FFRed poster who got caught out writing an anti-Jewish sentiment? That wasn't even on this board and she went down in flames for it despite an apparently genuine apology. If you think an "I'm sorry" (no matter how heartfelt) would settle the ravening horde, you're dead wrong.

Anyways, this post got away from me a bit. The only reason I'm even bothering to respond to you at all is because you're a good egg. Your contributions to this site are worthwhile and I've enjoyed most of your posts from the time I first started lurking here (around 200...6? 5? The years blend together). To you, and specifically JUST you (Not the bevy of swarming Concern Trolls waiting in the wings), I apologize, not for the post itself but for for shitting up DU at a time when almost everyone was doing so. 2016 was a cesspool on all fronts, and many of us certainly weren't at our most rational or reasonable.

Until next time. o7

[Cha]

43. I'm sure you don't "regret it"..

Last edited Thu Apr 4, 2019, 06:25 PM - Edit history (1)

just the opposite.. you seem very proud of yourself.

You have no room to talk about anybody.. not with wishing a violent act like that on a woman.. fix your own house.

[George II]

64. "A politely phrased suggestion"? Just in case you forgot exactly what you said, here it is:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/12511459520

"...with sincerity, kindly go fuck yourself with a brick."

That's politely phrased?

[sheshe2]

65. I remember that Op as if it were yesterday.

On a Democratic board no less.

[NurseJackie]

68. It's disgusting. It's VIOLENT! It's BRUTAL!

And still no apology? Just pride? What kind of man does that? (Wait, no... don't tell me... I already know.)

[jberryhill]

29. Complete load of crap

"In short, both issues are manufactured bullshit from trolls, probably of dubious nationality."

Oh, that's funny, anonymous internet guy.

[GemDigger]

31. I don't think Sanders has any intention of releasing them until AFTER he gets the nomination.

From his own mouth, pay particular attention to the last 10 seconds or so of the video. He tell us himself.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=7221

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

42. He's not going to get the nomination if he doesn't release his tax returns.

He probably won't anyway.

[GemDigger]

47. The man is promising the world but if he is not good on his word with his taxes

his word is useless and I doubt he would be true to his promises.

[yardwork]

51. That's how I see it. Easy promises.

[Cha]

44. BS sounds afraid that if he releases his Full

Tax Returns it will hurt him.. why is that?!

[GemDigger]

45. Very curious isn't it? nt

[betsuni]

56. But not a brick-worthy offense.

That violent anger is reserved for "cackling."

[LAS14]

89. Harm???? Now it's no longer just discomfort? It's "harm??????"

"Touching is a direct and personal harm," Oh, for crying out loud...

[brooklynite]

6. Why do people keep framing this as "what is worse"?

It doesn't MATTER what is worse because I'm not forced to make an either-or choice. I can not like Sanders for failing to release his taxes. I can disparage Trump for his sexist behavior. And I can STILL think that Biden's behavior, while well-meaning, is an issue for some women.

FWIW - I don't think the complaints about Biden disqualify him as a candidate or a nominee, and I think he's adequately addressed them (finally...). However, I don't think he's our best candidate at this point.

[Decoy of Fenris]

10. Obviously you're favoring Hickenlooper. What's his draw, to you?

I can look up his stances and proposals and policies all I want, but what specifically attracts you to him, presuming you think he's our "Best" candidate? (If you don't mind my asking, that is.)

[brooklynite]

19. Several things:

1. He's been a Mayor and a Governor, which means he has a set of accomplishments to point to that Senators/Congresspersons don't have.

2. His business background (starting and running a brewpub) is relatable to voters.

3. In the personal interactions I've had with him (two private dinners and a small group reception) he's able to take a policy-wonkish style and relate his accomplishment to real people outcomes.

4. He's been able to accomplish progressive outcomes in a State with a Republican State Senate.

5. He's from a Mountain West state, which mean he can't be tagged as a "coastal elite".

6. While not young like Beto or Pete, he's a relatively fresh face on the national scene.

7. He's politically competitive in a Purple State.

8. I don't see any political flaws, as compared to Bernie, Warren and Harris.

To clarify: Hickenlooper is my current choice among the candidates I've met with, and the ones I've discounted for reasons above. I'm still taking meetings, and am open to changing my mind (or supporting multiple candidates into the voting process)

[Decoy of Fenris]

20. Interesting. I'll have to look into him more. Thank you for this.

I'm surprised that a candidate like that has gone as under the radar as he seems to. Obviously he doesn't spark the same clickbait headlines as Sanders (or Biden, at the moment), but still.

As an aside, you say "Policy-wonkish". Care to elaborate on that any, or do you just mean he can be a policy nut without it seeming like he's a nut (In a good way)?

[sheshe2]

74. Well,

As an aside, you say "Policy-wonkish". Care to elaborate on that any, or do you just mean he can be a policy nut without it seeming like he's a nut (In a good way)?

Haven't followed him. Yet I am sure he can build his policies brick by brick. And doubt he will Fugg anyone on his way.

[femmedem]

58. Thanks! That's a useful list.

Looking forward to learning more about him.

[Honeycombe8]

37. I was thinking the same thing. It's not either-or.

A person can think both, or neither, is bad. Each bad behavior by different people stands on its own. It doesn't increase or decrease in badness because someone else does something bad.

[Tom Rinaldo]

9. Depends on whether Sanders releases his taxes, doesn't it?

And that's assuming, which I do, that there are no legitimate more damaging allegations about Biden touching yet to come. I say that because your question seems to imply certain things about the future, namely that Sanders won't reveal his tax returns well before the primaries begin, and that more serious accusations about Biden "touching " won't be revealed.

Personally I'm guessing that Sanders will release his taxes well before the primaries begin and that Biden won't be confronted with more serious legitimate allegations. I suppose I could be wrong on one or both fronts.

[BlueFlorida]

11. Not relelasing taxes is far far far far worse

It means there is something to hide ... something so terrible that releasing the taxes poses an existential threat to the campaign.

What is worse is the lying about releasing taxes .... saying words like "soon", "in due time" ... why not just say, "I won't release the tax returns and I don't think that is important." A person of integrity would do that instead of stalling people in the hopes that the people will soon forget.

[Eliot Rosewater]

12. One act is an unintentional yet inappropriate action, the other seems to be intentional act to hide

[Tom Rinaldo]

21. Except he can't hide Elliot. It's not like his Attorney General can instead issue a 4 page summary

It is all or nothing. Even if one asserts that Sanders never would have released his tax returns in 2016 had he been our nominee, which is a defensible assertion, that was all before the Trump Presidency. It is headline news now that Democrats are acting to compel the IRS to release Trump's tax returns.

Unlike Trump, Sanders never claimed that he remains "under audit" and that he can't release his returns while he is "under audit". The first debate is still over two months away. The first primary is over 9 months away. If Sanders has anything embarrassing to worry about in his returns he needs to get ahead of that in the news cycle at least two or three weeks before the first debate, so that the dust would have somewhat settled before he takes that stage. If he does not release his returns before the first debate, he has nowhere to hide anything while trying to remain a viable candidate.

If Sanders wants to hide something by not releasing his tax returns he is not legally obligated to release them, but it will destroy any chance he has to win the Democratic nomination if he doesn't. It will either all come out, or he will be out of contention before the first votes are counted.

Why has he waited this long? Maybe we will be able to read the tea leaves in retrospect. You want a theory? There's something in those returns that can at least be spun in a light negative to Sanders. But that doesn't mean that there necessarily is anything disqualifying in them. Maybe Sanders wanted to ace the first quarter fund raising numbers before tackling any backlash from his opponents regarding something in those returns. Maybe he'll release them now on tax day, April 15. Maybe he is baiting his opponents to go into such a frenzy about his withholding tax returns that they will way over reach and look foolish in retrospect once they are finally out there.

I don't know. What I do know is that Bernie Sanders can not seriously run for President in 2019, as a Democrat especially, if he does not release his tax returns: "Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide"

[Bradshaw3]

22. Excellent points

The last line especially so. No Democrat can run without releasing their returns, or they will take a serious hit. Sanders has let this become a thing, and it's difficult to see a reason other than those you speculated on. For the record, I like Bernie but this is making me wonder about him.

[TCJ70]

25. Given the binary choice? Touching for sure. N/t

[bigtree]

26. I think this comparison wins the prize for the worst

...

[Decoy of Fenris]

28. Best use of an ellipse ever. n/t

[doompatrol39]

27. Well, using current DU logic....

....neither one of them matters because Trump is worse.

[lapucelle]

30. What's worse, Biden's past touching or a former campaign characterized by a predatory culture,

discrimination, abuse, and sexual violence?

[Cha]

48. A more apt camparison.

Thank you.

[Power 2 the People]

33. Both are unrelated and have nothing to do with each other.

Intended to divide,not unite.

[robbedvoter]

34. They are both problems. Burnie's potentially worse - depending on what's he hiding.

Biden's - while I am willing to buy the non-sexual intent, I still see the power play - like with 🍊's handshake. "When you are famous, they let you do it"

[lunamagica]

36. One reveals the dishonesty of the candidate, and that he can't be trusted

in case I was't clear, I'm talking about Sanders

[George II]

41. Not a very logical comparison, I don't even know why these two completely different things...

...have to do with each other.

[greymattermom]

52. Sanders taxes

Biden did his hugging in public. Sanders is hiding things.

[PupCamo]

54. touching

[Deb]

55. kinda like apples and origins to me

[juxtaposed]

60. Both are nothing burgers

[tonedevil]

66. Both indicate...

a huge lack of preparedness. Senator Sanders has no excuse for not having decades of taxes to show the world on day one of this campaign. It was made very clear and he has indicated he will release them, but so far that is a lot of hooey. VP Biden has had this touchy-feely thing dogging him for decades and it can not come as a surprise the stories are coming out of the woodwork. This is a case of them not bringing in the assigned homework and hoping to get by with a good grade on the test. I would say that Biden is doing better on the test I don't think it will be enough though.

[UniteFightBack]

70. We know Joe's "touching"....stop acting like it's new. Bernie we DON'T KNOW...so that's worse. nt

[Cha]

71. BS not releasing his Full Tax

Returns are much WORSE. What's he hiding?

Joe Biden's accusers have brought their concerns all OUT IN THE OPEN. It's being Discussed Nationally.

We don't know what's in BS' Tax Returns.

[Gothmog]

73. In Defense of Joe Biden: A Hug When I Needed One

Link to tweet

At age 33, I had been a life-long Republican. I worked for, what many might describe as the “dark side and/or Darth Vaders of politics”, including George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, and Sarah Palin. I was conservative in my upbringing, values, and beliefs. I stayed true to those feelings yet still found myself drawn to Joe Biden. Our affable, blunder-prone, yet seemingly oh-so-real Vice President.....

I was anxious, sad, and seriously swollen with emotion but was able to get a chance to meet the Vice President. Many of the local Democrats remarked “what are YOU doing here?” when I showed up in line at his photo opportunity. I explained my affection for VP Biden because of what I had been through, and no one blinked an eye, everyone understood. He was a good man. No matter your party.

When my turn came up to have my brief meet-and-greet and photo taken with Vice President Biden, I was nervous. Why AM I here?? But immediately, he knew my story (his staff had briefed him) and he brought me in for a long, big hug. It was exactly what I needed. We discussed Beau and my father. We talked about the recent loss of my mother — he understood family tragedy. He was close, nose to nose at times and hand in hand, but it was in that personal touch that I KNEW he was a human. Not a Vice President, or a politician, or someone that was giving a speech later that night. He was a real person, who had been through real things. Just like me. We must’ve talked for five minutes — far more than the paying Democrat contributors got! — but it was so genuine, no one would complain. Especially Mr. Biden, communicating and comparing stories with me was clearly a highlight for him amidst his political duties. I left with a giant smile on my face, the first in days, and was uplifted for a long time after. I met my hero, and he was exactly what I had expected him to be.

My point in telling this story is that, while Vice President Biden has a very personal and affectionate way about him, it is only because he loves people. He loves people’s stories. Man, woman, child. Father, mother, son, daughter, spouse. He knows people are hurting and can relate and offer genuine support. And human touch is the most basic form of relaying that. There is no ulterior motive — he just wants to get close to everyone. Because he cares about their stories. And is human. And THAT is what matters most and crosses all party lines.

[greymattermom]

76. Taxes

Bernie is hiding something. Biden did his huggy stuff in plain sight.

[Merlot]

79. Making this a contest is worse.

[Jarqui]

81. Bernie from 2016 on his tax returns

I like Bernie but I think Bernie should keep his promise.

I do not think there is much to Joe's touching that he has not already addressed. I'm comfortable with his responses.

[borgesian]

87. Neither...at this point.

Sanders said he will release 10 years of his tax returns by, what was it, April 15, something like that. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for now. If we are at the first debate and he is still putting it off, then that's a different story. He needs to stop screwing around, release them, and take his lumps if there is anything shady in there.

I'm not considering Biden at all in the primaries, but fair is fair, and the whole thing is a ridiculous "scandal."

[Gothmog]

90. Early State Democrats Stand With Biden As Touching Scandal Falls Flat

Link to tweet

Progressives and advisers to Bernie Sanders hoped that they could keep Biden out of the race with a scandal that centers around personal space. The scandal though never really dominated the news like they hoped it or accelerated enough to damage the former vice president’s potential candidacy. Biden is still leading in the way too early polling, and he has seen no erosion in his support since the touching scandal started.

The challenge that any Democratic candidate faces is that Joe Biden has deep roots and a huge national organization of party officials. Biden is beloved by the party rank and file, and it is going to take more than what his political adversaries tried to turn into a scandal to stop his candidacy.

After seeing the behavior of porn star paying off, Access Hollywood tape accused sexual assaulter Trump, Joe Biden’s behavior doesn’t rise to the level of disqualifying in the minds of many Democrats.

Democratic voters may choose a different nominee, but Joe Biden is showing why he is going to be hard to beat in 2020.

[Gothmog]

91. Stephanie Ruhl-Could Bernie Sanders' tax returns drive his supporters away?

Link to tweet

[Gothmog]

92. Bernie needs to release his taxes

Link to tweet

?s=20

[Autumn]

94. Biden touching women inappropriately, no contest. Saying he will rethink his behavior

was a good thing, but he wiped that out with his joke about getting permission.

[Gothmog]

95. This so-called scandal/hit job failed

Link to tweet

One almost sensed from the breathless coverage of women who decided years later to object to former vice president Joe Biden’s non-sexual hugs and pats and kisses on the head that they expected the media to think it would be a fatal or near-fatal blow to Biden’s presidential chances. Not only was it not fatal, it didn’t register as particularly relevant to most Democratic voters. He was atop the polls before these stories aired, and he is atop them now.

Biden has been in the public eye since the 1970s, and unlike Hillary Clinton, who claimed the public never really knew her, voters feel like they know Biden pretty darn well. Many voters don’t remember anything before his vice presidency, his demonstrably warm relationship with President Barack Obama, his remarkable dignity after the death of his beloved son Beau, and his emotional goodbye to the late senator John McCain. He has established a level of emotional intimacy with voters that few politicians attain. He’s the chatty next-door neighbor, the avuncular relative and the co-worker who remembers everyone’s birthday.

[JonLP24]

96. Jesus, the touching

In 2015-2016 he released his most recent tax return (2014). Hillary Clinton used it as a dig it was no big deal until after Trump was elected and he acts shady over his tax returns but this primary is a long way away and he has said he would release them by tax day. If by the time the votes are being counted if he hasn't released his tax returns I'll consider your question but I have some patience.

[artislife]

97. *sigh*

I think it was the sniffing of the hair that pushes the touching into a whole different stratosphere.


But I get your defending of your candidate. I did that with Bill after Monica because I voted for him.


Now, I side with Monica, but I have lived the intervening years as a woman in this world.