On Joe Biden's Plagiarism, tempests in teapots

[jimmy the one]

Xposted by original author me from gen disc:

Joe was twice accused of, and acknowledged (in a loose sense), plagiarizing; one time what he said, the other what he wrote.
It's hardly as bad as it seems; the first was a one off where he cited in a speech a british member of parliament Neil Kinnock's speech, forgetting that day to note Neil, whereas Joe had indeed credited Neil in six previous incidences of the very speech.
The second was as a freshman in college, claiming he was unfamiliar with the rules for citing sources, quelle surprise, happens regularly to freshman college students. Sophomores too.

The plagiarism accusations in the Kinnock-Biden case revolved around a speech which Neil Kinnock made to the Labour Party congress. When {Kinnock} asked in his emotional address why he was the 'first Kinnock in a thousand generations to be able to get to university', ... When Joe Biden asked in a stump speech why he was the first Biden in a thousand generations to go to university, he meant the same thing.
Both were members of a left-wing party, waging war against the far-right leaders of their countries, Thatcher and Reagan. And that's why Neil Kinnock, when asked whether he was bothered by the appropriation of his words, responded that he wasn't; to the contrary, he {Kinnock} confessed to feeling 'flattered'. https://psuaw.blogspot.com/

Neil: Why am I the first Kinnock in a thousand generations to be able to get to university? [Then pointing to his wife in the audience] Why is Glenys the first woman in her family in a thousand generations to be able to get to university? Was it because all our predecessors were thick?

Joe: While Biden's speech included the lines: I started thinking as I was coming over here, why is it that Joe Biden is the first in his family ever to go to a university? [Then pointing to his wife in the audience] Why is it that my wife who is sitting out there in the audience is the first in her family to ever go to college? Is it because our fathers and mothers were not bright? Is it because I'm the first Biden in a thousand generations to get a college and a graduate degree that I was smarter than the rest? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Biden

This was later transmogrified by Joe's opponents, as well as his democrat rivals for nomination for president.
The second 'plagiarism' I list, actually occurred first:

Wiki: {Biden} earned his bachelor's in 1965 from the Univ of Delaware, with a double major in history and political science ... He then entered Syracuse University College of Law,... During his first year there, he was accused of having plagiarized five of 15 pages of a law review article. Biden said it was inadvertent due to his not knowing the proper rules of citation, and he was permitted to retake the course after receiving an "F" grade, which was subsequently dropped from his record.. He received his Juris Doctor in 1968, graduating 76th of 85 in his class. Biden was admitted to the Delaware bar in 1969

May 1989: Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr. was cleared of allegations that he committed plagiarism in law school by a panel under the authority of the Delaware Supreme Court ... The alleged law school plagiarism involved an essay Mr. Biden wrote in 1965 for an introductory class on legal methodology. 'A Personal Vindication' https://www.nytimes.com/1989/05/29/us/professional-board-clears-biden-in-two-allegations-of-plagiarism.html

A third example of plagiarism came to mind, same blog link above: What does Melania Trump's plagiarism tell us? .. Melania Trump got up last night to further her husband's success, and took her cue from Michelle Obama eight years ago. Her speech contained phrases which can only have been copied from the First Lady's earlier address, and so have been labelled as plagiarism.
This is a damning accusation and has prompted recollections of the last big plagiarism scandal to rock a US election, when Joseph Biden re-used Neil Kinnock's 'Thousand Generations' speech, was promptly labelled a plagiarist, and was forced to withdraw from the campaign

[FarPoint]

1. I don't care ..

Really . .

[snowybirdie]

2. Gee thanks

Last edited Thu Apr 4, 2019, 02:16 PM - Edit history (1)

for bringing all this crap up again. I'm sure some of the younger DUers haven't heard about it yet!

[abqtommy]

3. Let (they) who are without sin cast the first stone! (edited from Wholly Scripture)

[BlueFlorida]

4. We have an egotistical incompetent psychopath

in the white house and we are debating these namby-pamby points?


That is like debating which CDs to take for listening as one is evacuating from a fast approaching hurricane.

[BannonsLiver]

5. Like the Clarence Thomas stuff

This has been litigated over and over and over again. It’s just not going to stick in 2019. Nobody cares.

[janterry]

9. I think this is long ago, too

and I don't think that people care, either. I care, because I remember it all well. It was a campaign that I followed at the time.

But I don't think this is the issue that people will focus on either. Most people that I know are not interested in a Biden run because they are looking for new ideas (tbh, my friends are looking for new energy). However, my crowd is hardly a good sample of how his campaign will play out. It might do well.

We'll see as the primaries heat up

[Cha]

6. Thanks for the full story

on this.. something else that's overblown apparently.

[Cha]

7. Thank You!

[janterry]

8. This is just not what happened, he told a series of fibs

and his campaign imploded. Where you alive back then (I'm being serious - I was - I liked him at the beginning, but the whole thing - all the fibs - snowballed and he just had no choice to exit the campaign).

I was particularly shocked that he plagiarized in law school (of all places). I had just graduated college at the time and was VERY mindful of academic cheating - I remember just shaking my head. And then it all unraveled with more fibs.

Anyway, the campaign imploded:


https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1987/09/22/biden-academic-claims-inaccurate/932eaeed-9071-47a1-aeac-c94a51b668e1/?utm_term=.4f7d1d6a24c1


BIDEN ACADEMIC CLAIMS 'INACCURATE'
By James R. Dickenson
September 22, 1987

Sen. Joseph R. Biden Jr., his Democratic presidential campaign battered by charges of plagiarism in his campaign speeches and in a law school paper, admitted yesterday that some of his boasts about his college academic achievements were untrue, including the claim that he had finished in the top half of his class in law school.

In a videotaped exchange at a campaign coffee gathering in Claremont, N.H., last April 3, Biden also claimed that he had attended law school at Syracuse University on a full academic scholarship, that he had been named the outstanding student in the political science department as an undergraduate at the University of Delaware, and that he had graduated from Delaware with three undergraduate degrees.

In a statement yesterday responding to a story in the current issue of Newsweek magazine, Biden admitted that these claims were "inaccurate."

"As the complete record of my law school career indicates, which I released to the press last week, I did not graduate in the top half of my class at law school and my recollection on this was inaccurate," Biden said. "With regard to my being the outstanding student in the political science department, my name was put up for that award by Prof. David Ingersoll, who is still at the University of Delaware."

[janterry]

10. You are wrong

Or did Joe's ancestors also toll in the mines?

"Why am I the first Kinnock in a thousand generations to be able to get to university? Was it because our predecessors were thick? Does anybody really think that they didn't get what we had because they didn't have the talent or the strength or the endurance or the commitment? Of course not. It was because there was no platform upon which they could stand"

JOE BIDEN IN Sept 1987 during his first presidential campaign:

"Why is it that Joe Biden is the first in his family ever to go a university? Why is it that my wife... is the first in her family to ever go to college? Is it because our fathers and mothers were not bright? ...Is it because they didn't work hard? My ancestors who worked in the coal mines of northeast Pennsylvania and would come after 12 hours and play football for four hours? It's because they didn't have a platform on which to stand."

Look, (this is me) I don't dislike Joe Biden. At the time, I was sort of horrified by all of his missteps and fibs. But over the years, even with all of his gaffes, I've grown to like him. He's not what I'm looking for as a president - and I'm hopeful that one of the many great candidates we have running - will rise to the top. But Biden is a loyal democrat - and a legitimately nice guy (from what I'm told - and what I can see).

But there's no need to mis-remember what happened back then. It happened.

[jimmy the one]

12. No janterry, I'm not wrong - *bonus* Parade of Also Rans

janterry: This is just not what happened, he {biden} told a series of fibs and his campaign imploded. Where you alive back then (I'm being serious - I was - I liked him at the beginning, but the whole thing - all the fibs - snowballed and he just had no choice to exit the campaign).

I was not addressing Joe's embellishing of records or achievements, I was clearly referring to the plagiarism charges against Joe of 1) british member of parliament Neil Kinnock, and 2) as a college sophomore citing in a legal paper without proper footnotes etc..

Janterry: I was particularly shocked that he plagiarized in law school (of all places). I had just graduated college at the time and was VERY mindful of academic cheating - I remember just shaking my head. And then it all unraveled with more fibs.

I'm 68 & I've followed Joe Biden since my days at uni of maryland in the 70's, thinking he was the smartest guy around for president. So yeah, I was alive back then. Biden was 'next state over' from maryland, so I figured his train or commute might've passed by college park, eh, dunno even now, who cares.
I doubt Joe 'plagiarized' his legal paper(s) wittingly, just that he, like hundreds of freshmen & sophomores & juniors & seniors to this day & into perpetuity, forgot to cite properly footnotes & sources.
I don't think Joe withdrew from the presidential race solely because of these revelations or false reporting. Might've been he wasn't doing as well in the polls etc..

janterry: I don't dislike Joe Biden. At the time, I was sort of horrified by all of his missteps and fibs. But over the years, even with all of his gaffes, I've grown to like him. He's not what I'm looking for as a president - and I'm hopeful that one of the many great candidates we have running - will rise to the top. But Biden is a loyal democrat - and a legitimately nice guy (from what I'm told - and what I can see).

Thanks, Jan, same with Elizabeth Warren, a fine lady a fine democrat, but is not going to get the nomination, sad to say. Some people make fine senators or congresspeople, but shouldn't run for president. Most all of our democrat candidates, fine people in their own right, should disabuse themselves that they have any chance whatsoever of getting the nomination. Firstly they do not have the experience which a Joe Biden, a Bernie Sanders, a Sherrod Brown (gov Ohio), or a John Kerry do. The latter two are not even running.
What we have in our democrat 2020 nomination campaign, just as the republicans 16 candidates in 2016, is literally a PARADE OF ALSO RANS. Please somebody tell them that the election is NEXT YEAR 2020, not this year. Why do we do have to suffer with their campaign speeches, tv appearances, personal platforms, financial details, how much they are raising & who's beating who in the polls, A YEAR AND A HALF OUT FROM THE ELECTION. Sorry I'm sick of it so soon, and I turn off the tv when these come on. MSNBC, CNN, NBC et al should suppress their coverage at this point, not enhance them. Give them 20 second slot of coverage, that's all, and no town halls.
This 'parade of also rans' is better described as 1) an audition for the vice presidential ticket, 2) a campaign for either the seat they hold, or want to obtain (senator, gov, congressperson etc), or 3) an ego trip where they like to see their name in the papers & on tv & talk mindlessly about what they're going to do once they're elected president.
This was the same with the gop 2016 primary campaign, a parade of also rans.

I am a staunch democrat, have been since clinton - independant prior to that tho I did vote nixon once, mea maxima culpa, even while his birthday lottery sent me into military service in 1969.
I voted obama twice, campaigned for him the first run, and entrenched in the democrat party as the best approach to governance America has, and cannot tolerate most all of the republican party platform, so I'm not a plant here to disrupt our nomination process. Just please put it on a back burner until this november.


jan's link: BIDEN ACADEMIC CLAIMS 'INACCURATE' September 22, 1987 Sen. Joseph R. Biden Jr., his Democratic presidential campaign battered by charges of plagiarism in his campaign speeches and in a law school paper, admitted yesterday that some of his boasts about his college academic achievements were untrue, including the claim that he had finished in the top half of his class in law school. In a statement yesterday responding to a story in the current issue of Newsweek magazine, Biden admitted that these claims were "inaccurate."

[dalton99a]

11. Meanwhile, we're held hostage by a fucking criminal terrorist piece of shit