Some of us are pretending Bernie is NOT a socialist, when he's called himself

[pnwmom]

a socialist for his entire public life, and there is a Democratic Socialist Party of America that fully embraces him -- and embraces socialism.

He's been able to convince 1/4 to 1//3 of Democrats that his socialist brand doesn't matter -- even while insisting on retaining the brand -- a brand that will only hurt us in the general election. And even though he acknowledged in 2011 that his running as a socialist would lead to the election of a rightwing extremist.

He was right then. He's wrong now.

The Democratic Socialists of America, featuring Bernie on its homepage.

"Democratic Socialists for Bernie"

https://www.dsausa.org/

What is Democratic socialism?

We believe that the workers and consumers who are affected by economic institutions should own and control them.

Social ownership could take many forms, such as worker-owned cooperatives or publicly owned enterprises managed by workers and consumer representatives. Democratic socialists favor as much decentralization as possible. While the large concentrations of capital in industries such as energy and steel may necessitate some form of state ownership, many consumer-goods industries might be best run as cooperatives.

https://www.dsausa.org/about-us/what-is-democratic-socialism/#govt


From 2011:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/oct/21/bernie-sanders-socialist-vermont-interview

Bernie Sanders: America's No1 socialist makes his move into the mainstream

Sanders is unique in American politics. In a country dominated by a two-party system, he is one of only two independents in the Senate (the other being Joe Lieberman). In a political landscape where "socialist" is essentially a curse word, he has carved out a successful political career, with a solid base of support in his home state.

SNIP

But, he explains, he is not interested in the White House. "I would likely end up causing a right-wing extremist to be president of the United States. That is not something I would be happy to do," he said.

Then he added for emphasis: "It would likely be a futile and losing campaign. That would not be too smart."

[jimfields33]

1. Voters have a handle on this.

We all know he cares about all people and wants to see their lives improve. That’s what matters.

[bucolic_frolic]

5. Sweet

Politics is about power, not a therapy class for the masses.

[Bettie]

27. So, you believe that your chosen candidate prefers power

to improving people's lives? Noted.

[Cha]

61. He didn't say that.

[Bettie]

62. The statement is pretty clear:

"Politics is about power, not a therapy class for the masses."

How else would one read this statement?

As I read it: power is more important than people.

I doubt any of our candidates feel this way, but that is what the person wrote.

[fleabiscuit]

105. I doubt you're saying the power of a president is not real.

So I really don't know where you're going to go with this.

[Bettie]

108. I'm saying that running

simply because you want the Power is not enough.

If helping people isn't even a consideration...well, that seems morally bankrupt.

But, I guess this is where we are in this country now.

[ehrnst]

8. He's not the only Democratic candidate that cares about all people and wants to see their

lives improve.

Voters have other options.

[Boulevardier]

24. Voters are exercising their options right now.

We'll see how it all shakes out. So far, it's looking pretty good for Sanders despite all doom and gloomers around here.

[ehrnst]

28. So what do you think of the post that I was responding to? (nt)

[Boulevardier]

35. Post #1? Seems pretty innocuous.

[ehrnst]

40. Reply #1, yes, that's the one I was responding to. What do you think of it?

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=552595

You were commenting on my response to them, so it's sort of relevant.

[pnwmom]

79. So far, he has a lot less support than last time, and it looks like a brokered convention.

And if we do get to a second round, I don't see the establishment Democrats he treats with such contempt deciding he's the one to unify the party.

[fleabiscuit]

106. That's a very real possibility. nt

[brooklynite]

13. I see: McGovern, Mondale and Dukakis didn't want to see people's lives improve?

[Boulevardier]

36. I'm sure they did. Hillary probably did, too.

[ehrnst]

42. "Probably did"

Subtle as a cement brick dropped from a second story window.

[zackymilly]

91. Welcome to DU. n/t

[pnwmom]

78. Yes, and more than 2/3 prefer someone else. nt

[jimfields33]

86. True, but it's worse for other candidates

[pnwmom]

89. Not for EW, for example. For many people she's their 2nd choice. Bernie is a hard no for many. nt

[jimfields33]

90. Oops. Not so fast

In Nevada many are going to sanders as second place.

[pnwmom]

93. Bernie's strength has always been in the caucuses. In my state he won the caucuses

with 73% of the vote but Hillary won the primaries -- which had 4 times as many voters -- with 54%.

There is nothing about the caucus system that is designed to get a representative vote of the electorate, so I don't think what happens in NV is representative of anywhere else.

[jimfields33]

98. This primary was different since they gave 4 days of early voting

[pnwmom]

99. And people had to stand in line for hours to do their voting. It still drew the most fervent voters

and isn't representative of people who won't work that hard to vote.

It's no accident that my state has one of the highest participation rates -- we make it easy.

[jimfields33]

100. Goodness. I hope a state will be acceptable someday.

[pnwmom]

102. There are only 6 states that still have caucuses, and 2 of them are featured among the first

four early primary/caucuses. The caucuses are a joke. They give a very skewed view of the electorate, at least based on what happened in previous years when primary voters in diverse states finally had a chance to weigh in. (NH had a primary, but it isn't diverse at all.)

Super Tuesday is the day that will matter, and maybe the Tuesday after that, when several more states vote.

At this point it still looks like we're going to end up with a brokered convention -- and Bernie's contempt for the Democratic establishment won't help him there.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

107. No state that Bernie wins will EVER be acceptable!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join The Revolution!!

[fleabiscuit]

109. I see that Washington state has ditched the caucus. nt

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

112. THEY SURE DO!! Isn't democracy GREAT!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join The Revolution!!

[jimfields33]

120. Absolutely!!!!

[PubliusEnigma]

2. It is dishonest to pretend his lifelong Socialist label won't matter on Election Day.

Those who willfully ignore this fact are playing right into Trump's hands.

Donald knows that Bernie's supporters are fanatical enough to believe anything and selfish enough to turn on the Democratic Party if they don't get their way.
Trump counts on this dynamic for victory in 2020.

[corbettkroehler]

7. Probably But It's A Moot Point

In the age of tRump, I've heard some pretty hare-brained assertions but the video below is a beautiful portent for the general election. Faux already is trying to spin matters with the assertion that Bloomberg is not a capitalist.

While his accomplishments as a philanthropist impress, let's remember who almost singlehandedly reopened the New York Stock Exchange within the same week of the 9/11 attacks. Yes, Bloomberg.

That was part of the reason he won his first election as Mayor to succeed Rudy.

Link to tweet

[ehrnst]

9. Yes, I've seen some pretty hare-brained assumptions too.

And I didn't need to go to FoxNews to find them.

[Boulevardier]

32. It's probably not smart to insult supporters of other candidates.

It looks like you think a large chunk of the potential Democratic electorate is "fanatical" and "selfish" because they are voting for someone you don't like.

[PubliusEnigma]

47. Those who support Sanders are risking the future of our Nation on a Pipe Dream.

That is damned selfish.

[corbettkroehler]

3. Berners Wear The Democratic Socialist Badge With Beaming Pride

Link to tweet

[bucolic_frolic]

10. Focus on Democracy before they steal a strong central government from you

You've got no election integrity, or no elections period, without a strong central government to police them. Same for a clean environment, financial system, currency, a high standard of living. We can't devolve into low-tech manufacturers and farms for humanity - no one will maintain a civil society! Melting away the state for socialism is an old saw, and it plays right into Trump-Putin dictatorship.

[corbettkroehler]

12. If By "Strong" You Mean "Fascist", I'm Forced To Concur

Link to tweet

[ehrnst]

16. It appears you keep trying to change the topic to shoehorn favorite tweets into a thread.

I guess that's easier than responding to what's being said.

[corbettkroehler]

20. Uncomfortable Truths Can Be Difficult To Grasp

Link to tweet

[ehrnst]

22. So That's Why You Try To Change The Topic When They Come Up?

[corbettkroehler]

63. As Usual, You Have It 180 Degrees Backwards

You missed the point wholesale.

[ehrnst]

14. Asked about their impression of socialism, 28% of adults said they have a favorable view, while 58%

said they have an unfavorable view..

https://www.npr.org/2020/02/19/807047941/poll-sanders-rises-but-socialism-isnt-popular-with-most-americans

[corbettkroehler]

19. The Far, Far, Far More Relevant Number Will Be How Former Republicans Will Vote In November

Here's a test case.

Link to tweet

[ehrnst]

26. Another Evasion Of A Deeply Uncomfortable Truth?

[corbettkroehler]

64. Pot, Meet Kettle

You have one of the loudest voices in the never tRrump world of former Republicans calling on his countrymen to vote for a Socialist in the general election and find it irrelevant?

[ehrnst]

65. sigh...

[corbettkroehler]

67. I Second Your Pshaw (n/t)

[ehrnst]

71. But Of Course, As You Have Nothing Else.

[corbettkroehler]

74. Just Balancing My Time

I have more nuggets to share than there are hours in the day.

Link to tweet

[LakeArenal]

38. I think the far more relevant number

Is the number of republicans who will vote sanders in open primaries.

[ehrnst]

66. Yep. (nt)

[corbettkroehler]

70. All Are Welcome - That's Why Open Primaries Exist (n/t)

[LakeArenal]

72. And corruptible and antiquated

[corbettkroehler]

73. You're Welcome To Change The System

Until then, multiple states have open primaries and ALL candidates should do their best on a state-by-state basis.

[LakeArenal]

75. Oh you are so polite.

Insisting the corruptibility of our primary is of little concern. Dismissing our concerns.

That’s very precious.

[corbettkroehler]

81. Since Sanders Is The Victim Of The Corruption You Alege, I'm More A Saint Than Merely Polite

Did you miss the headline that with a simple recanvass of a portion of the results of the Iowa caucus, Sanders' deficit in State Delegate Equivalents dropped to almost zero?

Who's in the position of righteousness, now?

[LakeArenal]

82. Oh, and sanctimonious as well.

[corbettkroehler]

84. Santimonious? Having Facts On My Side Makes Me The Victor, Just As Bernie Will Be (n/t)

Link to tweet

[LakeArenal]

87. Add egomaniac.

[bucolic_frolic]

4. This is a war of dictators vs democracy

Dictators, who Trump admires universally and who back Trump, want power and money for themselves. Democracy is against all that. Nothing makes for weak democracy, because it's decentralized, like socialism. Trump and his backers are trying to divide our Democratic party so half will stay home and not vote, or weaken it with a weak candidate who's an easy target. Either way, dictators and Trump win.

Why do dictators want power and someone like themselves in America? Because we formerly supported freedom, self-determination, economic opportunity, and equality. Those are all opposed by dictators. Self-determination? Yeah. elections where non-dictators run and respect the outcome.

Do you see a pattern here?

[dalton99a]

6. Hopefully Trump will lie and say Bernie is not a socialist

[ibegurpard]

29. He's going to call all Democrats socialists

They already do. Those who that works on will already be biased to vote against ANY Democrat.

[pnwmom]

54. Warren doesn't hand them ammunition like Bernie does. She firmly calls herself a capitalist.

And many moderate voters who are willing to consider voting for a Democrat will refuse to vote for a Democratic socialist.

[ehrnst]

11. Having been an elector and endorser in the Socialist Workers Party will be difficult for him to

dismiss...

[Moderateguy]

15. He could claim his view have evolved

but instead he is proud of it--which is great but does not appeal to a majority

[ehrnst]

18. He has scrubbed all bios of his involvement in WSP...

and he gets very testy when someone asks him questions about topics that are problematic for him, so there may be an issue of him having an outburst when it's brought up in a debate...

Six months after the 1980 election, on May 21, 1981, Sanders spoke at another Pulley rally. “For the last 40 years,” Sanders said, “the Socialist Workers Party has… been harassed, informed upon, had their offices broken into, had members of their party fired from their jobs, and have been treated with cold contempt by the United States government.” Even worse, he went on, apparently referring to the Iranian hostage crisis, “now anybody who stands up and fights and says things is automatically a terrorist.” He claimed that he had been investigated himself by the FBI because “I was an elector for the Socialist Workers Party,” referring to his formal role in the 1980 election with the Trotskyists.

Asked about the SWP in 1988, Sanders, then the mayor of Burlington and a congressional candidate, talked down the connection, saying that: “I was asked to put my name on the ballot and I did, that’s true." Today, no mention of Sanders’ association with the SWP appears in any campaign biography he has issued. But Sanders remained tied to the party after 1980. He was a featured speaker at a Boston rally for the SWP’s Massachusetts gubernatorial candidate and the party’s slate for Congress in 1982, the year after he was narrowly elected mayor of Burlington. In 1984, he again spoke on behalf of the SWP’s presidential candidate, this time former Black Panther Mel Mason, telling The Militant that “at a time when the Democratic and Republican parties are intellectually and spiritually bankrupt, it is imperative for radical voices to be heard which offer fundamental alternatives to capitalist ideology." It remains unclear when Sanders’s affiliation with the SWP ended.

Of course, Sanders had a right to his beliefs. But he has not been fully transparent about what those beliefs, connections, and loyalties have been over the years. Sanders says that he has been consistently and firmly dedicated to democratic socialism. His record, however, reveals a very different story around the time of the Iranian hostage crisis.

https://news.yahoo.com/iran-took-americans-hostage-bernie-100052053.html

[dalton99a]

21. +1

In 1980, Sanders served as an elector for the Socialist Workers Party, which was founded on the principles of Leon Trotsky. According to the New York Times, that party called for abolishing the military budget. It also called for “solidarity” with the revolutionary regimes in Iran, Nicaragua, Grenada, and Cuba; this was in the middle of the Iranian hostage crisis.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2016/02/bernie-sanders-radical-past-would-haunt-him-in-a-general-election.html

[DanTex]

17. It's terminology. "Socialist", "democratic socialist", and "social democrat" have fluid meanings.

Technically he would fall under the "social democrat" banner, but who cares? What matters are the policies he stands for. That's what people are supporting, not the terminology.

And Bernie's not a member of DSA.

[ehrnst]

23. Not to a "big chunk" of people.

They hear "socialism" and they think USSR and Venezuela.

The GOP knows this and will exploit it. Look how many people they got to believe that the ACA was socialist health care...

Bernie's not DSA, Bernie is proud to refuse identification with any political party.

Bernie said the only party that he would consider joining was the Working Families Party.

And they endorsed Warren, and got 'the treatment' from Sanders supporters.

[TwilightZone]

33. Nope, still wrong.

Making up your own meanings for terms doesn't change the established, well-known meanings for those terms. I can say that socialism means anarchy, but it doesn't make it true.

Equating two very different concepts, democratic socialism and social democrat, as you insist on doing, is simply nonsense. You don't get to define what they mean to fit your own agenda. Neither does your candidate.

The thing is, I'm pretty sure you know it's nonsense and continue to insist otherwise anyway.

[DanTex]

37. There aren't established well-known meanings.

The terms are used fluidly and often interchangeably. In the US in particular, it's absurd to claim that "Democratic socialism" has a "well-known meaning". Most Americans had never heard the term "Democratic socialism" before Bernie came around.

The only "well-known meaning" of Democratic socialism in the US is "what Bernie stands for."

[ehrnst]

48. So that's going to work for the GOP.

[ibegurpard]

25. It doesn't matter

They call all Democrats socialists and communists now.

[Bettie]

30. And have for some time

we could nominate someone really truly right wing and that individual running with a D after their name would be called "socialist" and "most liberal member of X, EVER!".

It happens every time. It will happen this time too.

[ibegurpard]

34. yep

this argument is a non-issue as far as I'm concerned

[pnwmom]

80. We don't need to unilaterally disarm, and hand them ammunition. nt

[Shermann]

85. That isn't new

What's new is Bernie labeling himself a socialist first.

So did he de-weaponize the label, or just make their job a lot easier?

[ibegurpard]

88. Republicans boy-who-cried-wolfed it

They've been doing it for decades

[Cuthbert Allgood]

31. I think the problem is that those saying "WE WON'T VOTE FOR A SOCIALIST"

mean Marxist-Leninist authoritarian communists. And that is 100% NOT what Sanders is supporting.

He's also not saying the government needs to own all the means of production.

And, as evidenced by polling, people understand that.

[brush]

39. His supporters may but the majority of GE voters won't vote for a socialist even if the word...

democratic is in front of his label. And forget about down-ticket races, keeping the House and regaining the Senate.

[OnDoutside]

45. Explain that to soccer mom or many of the low information voters.

It's delusional to believe that the US will vote for a socialist.

[NurseJackie]

46. If you're still explaining... you're losing.

It's too late to start explaining now.

[ehrnst]

121. Well, Sanders was very involved in the marxist Socialist Worker Party. Anyone who thinks

that won't be brought up in a GE constantly by the GOP is naive.

Six months after the 1980 election, on May 21, 1981, Sanders spoke at another Pulley rally. “For the last 40 years,” Sanders said, “the Socialist Workers Party has… been harassed, informed upon, had their offices broken into, had members of their party fired from their jobs, and have been treated with cold contempt by the United States government.” Even worse, he went on, apparently referring to the Iranian hostage crisis, “now anybody who stands up and fights and says things is automatically a terrorist.” He claimed that he had been investigated himself by the FBI because “I was an elector for the Socialist Workers Party,” referring to his formal role in the 1980 election with the Trotskyists.

The Sanders campaign did not respond to a request for comment. Asked about the SWP in 1988, Sanders, then the mayor of Burlington and a congressional candidate, talked down the connection, saying that: “I was asked to put my name on the ballot and I did, that’s true." Today, no mention of Sanders’ association with the SWP appears in any campaign biography he has issued. But Sanders remained tied to the party after 1980. He was a featured speaker at a Boston rally for the SWP’s Massachusetts gubernatorial candidate and the party’s slate for Congress in 1982, the year after he was narrowly elected mayor of Burlington. In 1984, he again spoke on behalf of the SWP’s presidential candidate, this time former Black Panther Mel Mason, telling The Militant that “at a time when the Democratic and Republican parties are intellectually and spiritually bankrupt, it is imperative for radical voices to be heard which offer fundamental alternatives to capitalist ideology." It remains unclear when Sanders’s affiliation with the SWP ended.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/when-iran-took-americans-hostage-bernie-backed-irans-defenders

Before anyone starts in with "that was so many years ago..." 1981 is far more recent than Bernie's participation in the MLK March on Washington, or being arrested in college at a protest that he promotes as a very relevant part of his social justice cred.

[Gothmog]

41. CNN-Bernie Sanders misled America. Voters aren't comfortable with a socialist President

Link to tweet

It is true the Sanders was leading in the poll, conducted by the Wall Street Journal and NBC -- but only among Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents when asked who they supported for the Democratic nomination. He had 27% support compared to Mike Bloomberg, Joe Biden and Sen. Elizabeth Warren, each with 14% support. And in a hypothetical matchup, he was narrowly ahead of President Donald Trump.

But two-thirds of all voters -- Democrats plus everyone else -- said they would be uncomfortable with a socialist President.
Come November, it will be all Americans over the age of 18 who elect the Electoral College that picks the President.
Those results and the questions they raise about whether the country would accept a socialist are repeated in an NPR / PBS News Hour Marist poll.

In that poll, Sanders had even more support -- 31% in the Democratic primary compared to Michael Bloomberg, in second place with 19%.

Take a look at the party breakdown regarding socialism. Fifty percent of Democrats have a favorable view of socialism compared to 46% who have a favorable view of capitalism.

But again, socialism is far less favorable than capitalism in the country as a whole. In the NPR poll, among Americans overall, just 28% had a favorable view of socialism compared to 57% who had a favorable view of capitalism.
Among Republicans, 76% held a favorable view of capitalism compared to 7% who felt favorably about socialism.

[krissey]

43. That bell is not going to be unrung but I do not think Sanders or supporters care how that hurts

Last edited Fri Feb 21, 2020, 04:49 PM - Edit history (1)

down tickets, the party or the nation.

[OnDoutside]

44. It's shocking how many people fell for the Democratic Socialist ruse

Sanders hasn't changed, he hasn't changed in 40 years. Sticking Democratic in front doesn't change his political beliefs, and Republicans will have a field day scaring the shit out of Independents and moderate Republicans that we need to rout Trump.

I fear the Democratic Party will be annihilated if Sanders ends up as the nominee. I care, but Sanders and his band don't give a shit about the Democratic Party or the people, it's all about ideology.

[David__77]

49. DSA is not a party, not "Democratic Socialist Party of America."

Delores Huerta, Ron Dellums, the former AFL-CIO head John Sweeney had all been in DSA. It didn't exclude them from the Democratic Party.

In short, DSA is not a party.

In my local area, there are Democratic candidates and officeholders who are in DSA.

[Progressive dog]

50. If Bernie is the Democratic nominee

he will lose and probably take a lot of Democrats with him. His socialism, his age, and his anger are just them first three problems with Bernie Sanders as our candidate.

https://www.npr.org/2020/02/19/807047941/poll-sanders-rises-but-socialism-isnt-popular-with-most-americans

A new NPR/PBS NewsHour/Marist poll backs up the idea that the label could hurt him.

Asked about their impression of socialism, 28% of adults said they have a favorable view, while 58% said they had an unfavorable one.

The Gallup has 45% of Americans willing to vote for a socialist while 53% say they aren't willing. The next worse category is atheist, 60% are willing to vote for one.

[ibegurpard]

51. if 53 percent aren't willing to vote for a socialist then all Democrats are doomed

Because all of them will be tarred as socialist no matter how "moderate" or "progressive" they are.

[Progressive dog]

55. That is simply not true

since not one Democratic presidential candidate has ever claimed to be a socialist or actually espoused socialism. That is what the polls say, whether you choose to believe it.
The consevatives tried to tar FDR with the socialist lablel but couldn't make it stick. Apparently the socialists didn't believe it either because there were two socialist candidates running against FDR in 1944.

[evertonfc]

53. He voted for Marxist influenced candadates

for President through 80s.

[rampartc]

56. are we pretending that the peoples republuc of china is a republic?

some of these concepts are a little nuanced.

of course sen sanders supports a mixed economy. everyone to the left of ayn rand does.

the question is which industries are regulated or socialized and to which extent.

[pnwmom]

59. Of course he supports a mixed economy? Then why doesn't he say what Warren does?

She says she is a capitalist and she supports a well-regulated capitalism with a safety net.

Why does Bernie insist on the socialist label, if he really supports a mixed economy?

[brutus smith]

57. Look what they labeled Romney for voting against trump. We all know he's hardcore repub.

[defacto7]

58. Imagine a primary without Sanders.

The infighting would be a lot less divisive and the direction to the WH a lot more direct. The same is probably true of Bloomberg in its own way.

Candidates need to look at it from this perspective and if it's in the interest of the country, get out of the way.

[Cha]

60. Yeah, and why is that?

[Peacetrain]

68. This is exactly what he called himself when he first started running

for offices

I do not get it Cha.. just do not get it

[Cha]

69. Yeah, it's a mystery

wrapped in a ******** **** ** *****.

I coded for you

[still_one]

76. The elephant in the room so to speak

[LakeArenal]

77. None so blind as he who will not see!

🙉🙈. Note I left off speak no evil.

[Fiendish Thingy]

83. Do you believe Sanders is a Marxist who seeks state control of the means of production?

Simple yes or no question- the rest is hyperbole and fear-mongering.

[pnwmom]

94. I don't know what's in his heart of hearts. I DO know his chosen BRANDING. nt

[Ron Green]

92. "Democratic socialists favor as much decentralization as possible."

I really like that. Co-ops, Distributivism, Subsidiarity... these are the things that can save the world. I don’t hear another politician talking about them, although Pete Buttigieg certainly knows of them.

[pnwmom]

96. That won't help us to fight climate change-- which is the biggest battle in front of us now. nt

[Laelth]

95. Guilty as charged.

If he called himself a turtle, would he actually be a turtle?

Bernie is not a socialist.

-Laelth

[pnwmom]

97. It's his brand, and if he's the nominee, it will be a brand smeared on the rest of the party, too. n

[Laelth]

103. Peace, pnwmom.

I know you feel strongly about this, and I know you want what is best for our party (not to mention the American people). You and I disagree on this one issue. I just don't think that the labels mean that much to the American people at this time, but I had to post this one reply in your response thread to mine (and I waited a long time to do it so that your thread could develop and you could have your say). I am done now. As far as down-ballot races are concerned, I generally agree with you. I think that Bernie will hurt us more than help us, but I still think that he can beat Donald Trump.

At the moment, however, I'd like to celebrate all the ways in which you and I agree. There are many. It has been a pleasure to interact with you these many years.



-Laelth

[walkingman]

101. I'm getting closer and closer to picking Sanders as my choice - we need bold new ideas

and Bernie, to his credit, has always been consistent. Something that you seldom find in politicians. I'm growing tired of Dems being fearful of changing the status quo - that has been the primary reason that we are in the shape we find ourselves now. We truly do need a political revolution.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

114. As the official operator of the Bernie Bandwagon, I would be happy to welcome you aboard!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join The Revolution!!

[Sucha NastyWoman]

104. He doesn't call himself a Socialist

He calls himself a Democratic Socialist. Big difference.

It is dishonest to pretend otherwise.

[pnwmom]

110. Democratic Socialists are SOCIALISTS. You can read all about it, and their support of Bernie,

on their website, the Democratic Socialists of America.

https://www.dsausa.org/about-us/what-is-democratic-socialism/

Democracy and socialism go hand in hand. All over the world, wherever the idea of democracy has taken root, the vision of socialism has taken root as well—everywhere but in the United States. Because of this, many false ideas about socialism have developed in the US.

https://www.dsausa.org/about-us/what-is-democratic-socialism/#govt

We believe that the workers and consumers who are affected by economic institutions should own and control them.

Social ownership could take many forms, such as worker-owned cooperatives or publicly owned enterprises managed by workers and consumer representatives. Democratic socialists favor as much decentralization as possible. While the large concentrations of capital in industries such as energy and steel may necessitate some form of state ownership, many consumer-goods industries might be best run as cooperatives.

https://www.dsausa.org/about-us/history/

DSA made an ethical contribution to the broader American Left by being one of the few radical organizations born out of a merger rather than a split. DSA also helped popularize the vision of an ecumenical, multi-tendency socialist organization, an ethos that enabled it to recently incorporate recently many thousands of new members, mostly out of the Bernie Sanders presidential campaign. If you are committed to a pluralist, democratic conception of a just society then you can join DSA’s collective project, regardless of your position (or lack thereof) on some arcane split in socialist history, or even whether you believe in the possibility of independent electoral work inside or outside the Democratic Party ballot line.

[Sucha NastyWoman]

113. I did just that

And here is what I read in the first two paragraphs.


Democratic socialists believe that both the economy and society should be run democratically—to meet public needs, not to make profits for a few. To achieve a more just society, many structures of our government and economy must be radically transformed through greater economic and social democracy so that ordinary Americans can participate in the many decisions that affect our lives.

Democracy and socialism go hand in hand. All over the world, wherever the idea of democracy has taken root, the vision of socialism has taken root as well—everywhere but in the United States. Because of this, many false ideas about socialism have developed in the US.

[pnwmom]

115. Thanks for the second paragraph, proving that they're all about socialism, which is what you were

disputing.

We already have a democracy -- which can and should be improved as a capitalist country, like other successful capitalist countries (the capitalist Nordic countries as an example.) We don't need socialism.

[Sucha NastyWoman]

117. We don't have pure capitalism, fortunately.

Why don’t we forget about demonizing either label, and just talk about what works.

[pnwmom]

119. Why don't we stop branding ourselves as socialists when we know that will lose millions of

Democratic and centrist votes?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

118. Everyone's participation in Bernie's political revolution is appreciated. It's a Big Tent...

all are welcome!!


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join The Revolution!!

[HarlanPepper]

111. Yeah be sure and get that memo to the media and trump campaign so they keep it straight.

[Sucha NastyWoman]

116. Yes, but I expect certain degrees of spin and dishonesty from them

I don’t expect it from Democrats

[Gothmog]

122. The grandson of GHW Bush is running this ad against socialism and sanders

TX CD 22 is an open seat with Pete Olson retiring. The DCCC has targeted this seat for flipping. There are 15 candidates in GOP primary including the grandson of GHW Bush. Another candidate, Kathleen Wall, is running in the GOP primary and she spent $6 million in 2018 running in GOP primary for TX CD 2 and did not make GOP primary runoff. I have had Wall block walkers come to my house twice (I live in a very GOP neighborhood) and I have found Wall doorhanger on my door twice now.

Pierce Bush is running against socialism

Link to tweet

Sri Preston Kulkarni is the leading Democrat for this seat (Sri has a GOP type and another person running against him in the Texas Democratic Primary) I texted this ad to Sri and he knew about it already. Sri Preston Kulkarni is a great guy and we need to flip this seat

If sanders is the nominee, we can forget about this seat and we will have Kevin McCarthy as speaker