Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumNatasha Bertrand: IC would *not* have told Sanders to remain silent about campaign meddling
Natasha Bertrand, just now on Weekends w/ Alex Witt, re: source says IC would *not* have objected to the Sanders campaign speaking publicly about efforts to meddle in campaign, indicating he had no such directive *not* to speak. FYI. (I was wrong in other replies since this news broke).
Sanders folks, If Bernie knew and sat on this info for a month *for whatever reason*, it was wrong to do so. We *needed* to know a month ago (before Iowa).
She also said IC wouldn't tell the campaign to keep it quiet because that, in itself, would help the Russian efforts.
I'm sorry, but this pisses me off...
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(297,503 posts)everyone off.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Roy Rolling
(6,928 posts)But it does raise a question I didnt have before: by NOT disclosing, was it because the Sanders campaign thought theyd use the Russian intervention for their advantage?.
Which is all the more reason Sanders should have gotten ahead of the story. By not proactively disclosing it, the Sanders campaign blew a gigantic opportunity. And now Im wondering why, which I didnt wonder about before.
Im sure others are, too.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)But there's a ton of other possible reasons that are more plausible, esp. in totality.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JudyM
(29,265 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
brush
(53,820 posts)Seems he took advantage of knowing Russians were helping him and he decided not to disclose it.
Not good, and certainly not transparentkind of sneaky really.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,335 posts)For the record.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)This was a test of leadership and integrity and Bernie failed it... BIG TIME!
In my mind, he does not deserve to be POTUS. He's disqualified. He should withdraw now.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DemoTex
(25,400 posts)What/who is "IC?"
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
dalton99a
(81,566 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
I should have known!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Dennis Donovan
(18,770 posts)It seems to be fairly new shorthand that's surged since Trump came on the scene.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DemoTex
(25,400 posts)Sometimes I'm dense.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Dennis Donovan
(18,770 posts)I hadn't seen it used much before 2016.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
PatSeg
(47,560 posts)Sorry, couldn't resist. Years ago I road the IC to work every day!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DemoTex
(25,400 posts)Literally!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
PatSeg
(47,560 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Prue
(139 posts)We should all be concerned how Sanders handled this. He should have used this situation as a way to look presidential and leading by example. Showing us he will be transparent with the american people.
It was an interesting strategy on his campaigns part. I think he was gambling on all the democratic voters defaulting and voting for him if he received the nomination without care of whether he was helped by russia or not.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
SunSeeker
(51,646 posts)Why can't he just turn over his health records? Even McCain did that. Those doctors letter are little better than what Trump did.
He has yet to disclose FULL tax returns. Why?
And the Our Revolution PAC has 6-figure anonymous donations. Who are they? Isn't transparency about this needed now more than ever, now that we know Russia is helping him?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
sheshe2
(83,850 posts)He is the only candidate that had a heart attack on the campaign trail. He said he would release full records then announced he would not. That does not sit right with me.
On top of that I am concerned, very concerned who he would pick as VP. His choice of execs on his team gives me pause since at least three of them voted Stein.
If it had been Warren, my candidate of choice, I would demand it of her as well.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
SunSeeker
(51,646 posts)The Party Chair calls a meeting of the National Committee, and the Committee members at the meeting vote to fill the vacancy on the ticket. A candidate must receive a majority of the votes to win the party's nod. https://teachinghistory.org/history-content/ask-a-historian/20431
But after that, it's Bernie's VP. And I am almost sure Bernie will not pick one of the other candidates as his VP.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
sheshe2
(83,850 posts)Gawd help us.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
SunSeeker
(51,646 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
sheshe2
(83,850 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Docreed2003
(16,869 posts)I'm fucking pissed for a bunch of reasons and frankly really disappointed in Bernie. If he knew there was an issue, and he alluded to this crap several times while trying to take some "high road" when discussing some of his surrogates behavior, he clearly didn't open up about this for a reason. For Bernie to say, oh this was leaked now right before NV and SC to hurt our campaign, is just shitty. Frankly, I can totally understand why people would say well, if it's leaked now to hurt you, did you keep it quiet for a month so that it WOULDNT hurt you in NH and Iowa?
Bernie has been on record diminishing Russian interference in '16 and even blamed the Clinton camp for not doing more as recently as '18. Why is he refusing to lead on this?? I'm not a Bernie hater. I have issues with the way his campaign is being run right now but I'm not a hater. In fact, I was a full throated supporter in '16. I'm really disappointed in the way he is choosing to handle this. I'm sorry but blaming the "Republican and Democratic establishment" isn't going to cut it this time.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
PatSeg
(47,560 posts)what is likely to affect our elections.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JudyM
(29,265 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
MrsCoffee
(5,803 posts)Its been apparent for some time now.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
CentralMass
(15,265 posts)lets hear from someone on Semate Intelligence comitte instead of getting things from leakers and journalists
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
rzemanfl
(29,566 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)LOL I just flashed back to George Dubya and that mangled Texas accent of his.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
rzemanfl
(29,566 posts)I am pissed as well, or as hell.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
SunSeeker
(51,646 posts)I bet a big chunk of them have already been returned since people know to mail them back well ahead of the March 3 CA primary date.
Do you think Pete's victory in Iowa would have been so narrow if Iowa caucus goers had this news about Putin helping Bernie?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
rzemanfl
(29,566 posts)Then there are the overseas ballots.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
SunSeeker
(51,646 posts)Why did Bernie keep that a secret for over a month--and get angry when it leaked?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)If I was to speculate a POSSIBLE reason?
Because everyone was told to keep quiet while the investigation was ongoing, and Bernie suspects that someone else on the Intel Committee (perhaps even a Democrat) leaked that information before the NV primary in order to derail his candidacy?
Why ... did you have proof it's some other reason?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
SunSeeker
(51,646 posts)Sure, he can't reveal sources and methods, but nothing forbade him from divulging the conclusion, particularly if, as you claim, it was common knowledge.
Bernie didn't release the info because it would have hurt him in the crucial first states of Iowa and NH. Duh.
That is why he was so angry when it was finally leaked, causing him to snap that it was no coincidence it was leaked on the eve of the Nevada voting. He thus acknowledged that the info could hurt him in primary voting.
Bernie needed to win those states to develop momentum going into the diverse states, and even more crucially, to look electable. Plus, during that time the huge CA mail in voting was going on. Over a million CA ballots have already been turned in.
And Bernie got away with it. Now it doesn't matter, the momentum is going to carry him. God help us in November. Putin won't be helping Sanders then.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JudyM
(29,265 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
H2O Man
(73,581 posts)I respect her as a journalist. However, she is simply wrong about this. Senators and Representatives who are part of the Intelligence Committees are definitely NOT allowed to speak about the information they learn in meetings with the IC publicly.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Tom Rinaldo
(22,913 posts)that they deemed it in the public interest to reveal. But they didn't. Instead it comes out on the literal eve of the Nevada caucus through unnamed sources.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
H2O Man
(73,581 posts)could not declassify it, as this would require the backing of one of two people -- Trump and/or Barr (Trump "gave" Barr this power over the entire IC in 2019). It falls into "Counter-Intelligencewhich is remarkably difficult to declassify. Thus, for example, The FBI/Mueller counter-intelligence information isn't public. That's not only due to DOJ/FBI rules, but because it is part of a larger counter-intelligence investigation, coordinated with the CIA and ONI.
The recent debate included Senator Sander's coming right up to the line, hinting that the most aggressive and divisive "campaign supporters" might have an agenda distinct from the actual campaign. He even brought up Russian interference in the 2016 election. I assume that a number of us had already recognized it for what it is, and hoped more people -- no matter which candidate they support -- would catch on.
The manner in which it was released is fairly obvious. That a large group of good Democrats don't get it is sad, but not surprising.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Tom Rinaldo
(22,913 posts)I too noted the relevancy of Bernie's comments about disrupters in light of this development, but you placed it very nicely in context. I'll just say then that I assume whatever legally could have been revealed by Sanders could also have legally been revealed by members of the IC committee themselves.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
H2O Man
(73,581 posts)this expanded analysis interesting:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287559915
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Tom Rinaldo
(22,913 posts)Could only do a very quick scan now as I have a commitment now calling out to me, but I will read it in full later.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JudyM
(29,265 posts)🤔
If he was not permitted to disclose this, he ought to say that outright.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Dennis Donovan
(18,770 posts)...it would (likely) contain classified intel (so he wouldn't be able to talk about it). However, his campaign would've gotten a different briefing w/o the classified info. What they received would've been ok'd for public consumption.
I'm not a Sanders-slammer at all. I supported him in 2016 because I believed what he was proposing (M4A, tighter restrictions on business, organized labor, climate change) was, after 8 years of prosperity, an opportunity to change the 40-year, right-ward political and economic trajectory, to pull it back towards the center-left. Once it was clear Secretary Clinton was getting the nom, I switched my allegiance to her and worked towards her election.
Now, we're in a MUCH different place than 4 years ago. My support of Biden isn't because I believe he's in the best position to beat Trump - any of our candidates will beat Trump, I'm sure. It's because we, US citizens not in the cult of Trump, have been abused. Traumatized. Terrorized. All of our institutions are *burning* as we speak.
After the last 3+ years, I'm weary, and I prefer someone who will not shake the living shit out of the system from day one. I want someone to put out the blaze, assess the damage, and repair what needs to be repaired.
Once that's done, I'll re-join the revolution.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
uponit7771
(90,348 posts)... not to.
He could've done it without violating IC rules by speaking as general as possible, screw this ... Sanders is dead wrong.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ecstatic
(32,727 posts)This affected then too.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Dennis Donovan
(18,770 posts)Each campaign had the right to know what the Sanders campaign was told.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DIVINEprividence
(443 posts)when he knew for months. Russians also helped Sanders campaign last time. The Bernie Bros were Bernie Bots
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
dalton99a
(81,566 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
still_one
(92,353 posts)I haven't voted yet, but vote by mail
I will vote after the SC primary
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
totodeinhere
(13,058 posts)say anything about it? They were also briefed. That leads me to believe that contrary to the opinion voiced on MSNBC , this was a confidential briefing. And remember that the Sanders campaign has been berating MSNBC for its biased coverage of the Sanders campaign. So I would take what I hear on MSNBC on this topic with a grain of salt.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)He does not deserve to be our party's nominee. He was the beneficiary, it was HIS call to make, yet he remained silent. That disqualifies him. He's proven to me that I can't trust him. He should withdraw now... suspend his campaign... or whatever.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)Why DIDN'T any other Democrats say anything?
Why aren't ALL their feet being held to the fire for 'not telling us'?
Hmmm?
And if it turns out he was barred from saying anything, will you take your outrage ... back?
Just wonderin ...
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)that some people are arguing here ... is a buncha garbage?
We're in agreement on that?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
SunSeeker
(51,646 posts)If the Dems who knew disclosed it, Bernie would accuse them of being a cabal to stop him. Bernie did exactly that after it was finally leaked. He unleashed with his "the Democratic establishment won't stop us" tweet.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
totodeinhere
(13,058 posts)He has throughout his political career demonstrated his integrity and he will make a great president. You are basing all of this on a leak from a Jeff Bezos owned newspaper on the eve of the Nevada caucuses and now suddenly Bernie lacks integrity and leadership? I think that more than anything else this is Bernie haters grasping at straws in an attempt to derail his candidacy, and the voters who who are choosing Bernie be damned.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)I do not believe it show "integrity" to accuse the Democratic party of being "feeble" and saying that the Democrats are the "same as the GOP". That's not integrity. I guess I just have higher standards. He doesn't deserve to be our party's nominee. The candidate that I choose to support will not be someone who sits idly by saying nothing while Russia helps his campaign.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
delisen
(6,044 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
luvtheGWN
(1,336 posts)why this info should have remained secret? After all, it affects the voting public.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
totodeinhere
(13,058 posts)investigation. Besides, it's only a leak from an anonymous source in one newspaper.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Dennis Donovan
(18,770 posts)Theirs would've contained classified info.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
PubliusEnigma
(1,583 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)For a WHOLE MONTH ... and didn't tell any of us!
Left us COMPLETELY IN THE DARK on the idea that Russia might be interfering with our elections.
I mean, this is totally the first I'm hearing of such a thing, myself. And they knew for a month.
It's just crazy.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
SunSeeker
(51,646 posts)Why aren't ALL their feet being held to the fire for 'not telling us'?
You know perfectly well that they'd be "crucified" in the same way that the Post is being smeared. It wasn't their place, and they'd be accused of "interfering". This was a test of Bernie's integrity and honesty and he failed it. I can't trust him, ever.
If the Dems who knew disclosed it, Bernie would accuse them of being a cabal to stop him. Bernie did exactly that after it was finally leaked. He unleashed with his "the Democratic establishment won't stop us" tweet.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
nycbos
(6,035 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
subana
(586 posts)...if he had made a brief statement about it. That way he could have controlled that message much more than he is now!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
onetexan
(13,056 posts)to come out and admit the russians are helping him get the nomination, just so he can be beaten in the General election by the Orange Blob of course.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
shadowmayor
(1,325 posts)Why?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Dennis Donovan
(18,770 posts)Christ!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
shadowmayor
(1,325 posts)I don't trust them at all.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
uponit7771
(90,348 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
shadowmayor
(1,325 posts)Slam Dunk. Our new "friend" Mueller testified on the veracity of WMD's. I'm sure there are plenty of hard working IC people in the trenches doing great work, but when their leadership speaks up, I for one never give them the benefit of the doubt. It's too costly. Just ask the good people of Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, and Libya how effective our IC community is.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
rzemanfl
(29,566 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(297,503 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
uponit7771
(90,348 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
KPN
(15,647 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
revmclaren
(2,528 posts)Sanders is a candidate and he benefited by not letting the other candidates and the voters know for over a month.
ONLY!!! 2020 and beyond.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
KPN
(15,647 posts)Russian meddling included trolls masquerading as antagonistic Bernie Bros. Bros does that help him? Everyone already knew and knows the Russians are meddling in a lot of ways. Their purpose is to sow division and confusion. Theyve been masters at it, especially with the assistance of this administration.
I keep thinking we are so far down Alices rabbit hole because of their mind messing efforts that we dont know whether up is down or right is wrong. Nothing we hear about any of this seems trustworthy anymore. And thats their point. Theyve accomplished their goal if we keep playing along by letting our perceptions be shaped.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
betsuni
(25,596 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden