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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:25 AM

 

All of this Sanders dread is astounding to me

He's running on FDR style reforms of actually giving people some value for the taxes they pay.

He's an actual populist (as opposed to Trump's fake populism) and his policies represent a kindness and compassion for working people that hasn't been on the ballot for decades.

He is against corporate bribes ruining our governance.

He polls better in head to head comparisons with Trump than any other candidate

He is bringing young people and independents to the polls.

He's not even my preferred candidate, but what the hell is wrong with everyone here on DU?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Reply All of this Sanders dread is astounding to me (Original post)
ProfessorPlum Feb 2020 OP
InAbLuEsTaTe Feb 2020 #1
beachbumbob Feb 2020 #33
ProfessorPlum Feb 2020 #34
dchill Feb 2020 #53
beachbumbob Feb 2020 #60
ProfessorPlum Feb 2020 #88
Hassin Bin Sober Feb 2020 #118
KPN Feb 2020 #160
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pazzyanne Feb 2020 #214
DemocracyMouse Feb 2020 #293
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mikeysnot Feb 2020 #72
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KPN Feb 2020 #165
PatrickforO Feb 2020 #186
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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:26 AM

1. SERIOUSLY!! Bernie's a true Champion of The People & he can't be bought!! You couldnt ask fo more!!

 




Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join The Revolution!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #1)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:52 AM

33. so where's the list of legislation he sponsored and got passed in the Senate?

 

Would love to see how he built consensus of support
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to beachbumbob (Reply #33)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:55 AM

34. google "Amendment King"

 

and then retire this old, boring line of "attack".
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #34)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:05 PM

53. Indeed!

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #34)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:08 PM

60. a big difference between simple admendments and a bill, just saying

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to beachbumbob (Reply #60)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:19 PM

88. Thanks, I bow to your superior knowledge of the intricacies of legislating in the Senate

 

which is virtually controlled by corporate money.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to beachbumbob (Reply #60)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:30 PM

118. Yeah, one gets good things done for poor people and middle class while repigs are in power.

 

The other gets us bipartisan pro-credit-card industry banking laws and war authorizations while the repigs are in power.


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #118)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:11 PM

160. Bingo.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #34)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:10 PM

159. +2020!

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #34)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 02:21 PM

214. You mean this?

 

"Bernie Sanders was the roll call amendment king from 1995 to 2007". Where are his bills that he authored/ co-authored? This is what I found: "Sanders sponsored hundreds of pieces of legislation which date back to 1991, only three have become law." Please supply links to any other bills that he passed. Thank you in advance.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to pazzyanne (Reply #214)

Tue Feb 25, 2020, 02:00 AM

293. According to Snopes, that "thin legislative record" is a REPUBLICAN meme

 

SNOPES: Do Sens. Warren, Booker, Harris and Sanders Pass Fewer Bills Than Other Senators?
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/democratic-senators-pass-bills-rate/
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to DemocracyMouse (Reply #293)

Tue Feb 25, 2020, 03:17 AM

296. According to Politifact:

 

Bernie's record from 2015 to present.

Total amendments passed
Passed by roll call vote
2015 to present
4
1

As I stated in my earlier post he had a respectable showing until 2007.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to beachbumbob (Reply #33)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:12 PM

72. Why don't you pick a candidate then make those baseless empty claims.

 

I want Warren and Bernie that is why I am undecided. how about you?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to mikeysnot (Reply #72)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:30 PM

115. I'll take 'em BOTH!!!!

 


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join The Revolution!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to mikeysnot (Reply #72)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:13 PM

165. Same here. I'll vote for whoever takes the nomination though.

 

Well, I’d have a hard time with Bloomberg truthfully.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to KPN (Reply #165)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:40 PM

186. Yeah, me too, but if Bloomberg successfully buys his way to the Dem

 

nomination, I'll hold my nose and vote for him.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to PatrickforO (Reply #186)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 02:53 PM

224. I live in Oregon. Unless the polls are very tight here,

 

I may just leave that pick blank on my ballot. If there’s the slightest possibility it may be close (and with Bloomberg as our candidate I imagine it could possibly be), then I will absolutely do the same.

Why? Electing another billionaire (not that tRump actually is) sets a dangerous trend for our democracy. In my view, it may actually serve to justify Citizens United.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to KPN (Reply #224)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 03:09 PM

225. Do not even consider leaving the presidential pick blank. That's a vote for Trump/Putin.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to PatrickforO (Reply #186)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 03:17 PM

227. Vote Bloomberg if I must ...

 

... then support his impeachment as soon as he sends a single $ to his own wallet, etc., and I'm sure the GOP will be on-board.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to mikeysnot (Reply #72)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 06:01 PM

242. Exactly

 

I've been aware of Bernie since I heard about this weird mayor of Burlington. I've always like his stances and to my, failing, memory I haven't seen him deviate from them. Warren is brilliant, she reasoned her way to stances that seem to me to be similar to Bernie's, and changed from a Republican to Democratic party member. Her CFPB was great, and could soon be again with non-kleptocrats in charge.

I'd like either of them as the nominee. That being said I will vote this year, I will vote for democracy, and no matter who is the Democratic nominee, I will vote for them. Of course I hope it isn't Bloomberg, Steyer, or Gabbard.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to mikeysnot (Reply #72)

Tue Feb 25, 2020, 10:02 AM

305. I want anyone but Trump so I don't care which of the candidates wins the nomination be

 

it Biden, Warren, Bernie or Pete as I intend to fully support them regardless.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to mikeysnot (Reply #72)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 10:25 AM

329. Yes!

 

That would be my dream team!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to beachbumbob (Reply #33)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 07:41 PM

259. Right here:

 

https://www.democraticunderground.com/12511974291
The following is a list of every substantive bill and amendment Sanders sponsored from the floor of Congress that became law (substantive meaning legislation renaming post offices is not included). Many of the roll-call amendments he passed with majority approval — like limiting the federal government’s ability to spy on people’s library records — were removed from bills when the House and Senate negotiated over the final legislative text and did not become law.

Because the list is derived from Congress’ official database of floor actions, it does not include achievements like his insertion of funding for veterans health care into an Iraq war spending bill because that occurred off of the House floor while the bill was in conference. Nor does the list include what is perhaps his most significant achievement — providing health care to an additional 10 million mostly low-income Americans by getting Senate majority leader Harry Reid to add $11 billion in funding for community health centers that provide care regardless of a person’s ability to pay to the 2010 Affordable Care Act in exchange for Sanders rallying liberal Democrats who were considering voting against the bill once conservative Democrats removed the public option.

Those who mistakenly believe that a President Sanders would be powerless in the face of a hostile Republican Congress should bear in mind that he managed to pass these bills and amendments in spite of Republican control of both the House (1995-2006) and the presidency (2001-2008). Furthermore, it was Republicans in the House and Senate who compromised with him (not the other way around) on major veterans legislation in 2014. His original bill expanding services for veterans and fixing the scandal-ridden Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) cost $17.3 billion. The price tag of the final compromise bill? $16.3 billion.
H.R.4206 (Cancer Registries Amendment Act) enacted as S. 3312 (Cancer Registries Amendment Act).

H.Amdt. 98 to H.R. 665 (Victims of Justice Act of 1995)

H.Amdt. 210 to H.R. 830 (Paperwork Reduction Act of 1995)

H.Amdt. 1203 to H.R. 3666 Departments of Veterans Affairs and Housing and Urban Development, and Independent Agencies Appropriations Act, 1997

H.J.Res.129 enacted as S.J.Res.38 (A joint resolution granting the consent of Congress to the Vermont-New Hampshire Interstate Public Water Supply Compact)

H.Amdt.174 to H.R.1757 (Foreign Affairs Reform and Restructuring Act of 1998)

H.Amdt.267 to H.R.2160 (Agriculture, Rural Development, Food and Drug Administration, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 1998)

H.Amdt.289 to H.R.2266 (Department of Defense Appropriations Act, 1998) -- National Guard Starbase program

H.Amdt.368 to H.R.2378 (Treasury and General Government Appropriations Act, 1998) -- Prohibit funds for the U.S. Customs Office from being used to allow the importation into the U.S. any material mined, produced, or manufactured by forced or indentured child labor.

H.Amdt.388 to H.R.2267 (Departments of Commerce, Justice, and State, the Judiciary, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 1998)

H.Amdt.569 to H.R.6 (Higher Education Amendments of 1998)

H.Amdt.614 to H.R.3694 (Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 1999) -- Reduce the intelligence budget for fiscal year 1999 by 5% with an exemption for the CIA Retirement and Disability Fund.

H.Amdt.626 to H.R.10 (Financial Services Act of 1998) -- Require the Comptroller General to report to Congress regarding the efficacy and benefits of uniformly limiting any commissions, fees, markups, or other costs incurred by customers in the acquisition of financial products.

H.Amdt.706 to H.R.4101 (Agriculture, Rural Development, Food and Drug Administration, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 1999) -- Increase funding for nutrition programs for senior citizens by $10 million

H.Amdt.708 to H.R.4103 (Department of Defense Appropriations Act, 1999) -- Prohibit funding to be used to enter into or renew a contract with any company owned, or partially owned, by the People’s Republic of China or the People’s Liberation Army of the People’s Republic of China.

H.Amdt.724 to H.R.4104 (Treasury and General Government Appropriations Act, 1999) enacted as H.R. 2490 (Treasury and General Government Appropriations Act, 2000) -- National Archives and Records Administration improvements

H.Amdt.127 to H.R.1906 (Agriculture, Rural Development, Food and Drug Administration, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 2000)

H.Amdt.136 to H.R.1906 (Agriculture, Rural Development, Food and Drug Administration, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 2000) -- national pilot program to promote agritourism

H.Amdt.258 to H.R.2466 (Department of the Interior and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 2000) enacted as H.R.3194 (Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2000) -- deficit reduction; and reduces fossil energy research and development funding

H.Amdt.442 to H.R.2684 (Departments of Veterans Affairs and Housing and Urban Development, and Independent Agencies Appropriations Act, 2000) -- health care services for veterans in rural areas

H.Amdt.791 to H.R.4577 (Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2001) -- (relating to the availability to the public of an invention and its benefits on reasonable terms)

H.Amdt.818 to H.R.4578 (Department of the Interior and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 2001) -- weatherization assistance and energy conservation programs and reduce fossil fuel energy research and development programs

H.Amdt.238 to H.R.2590 (Treasury and General Government Appropriations Act, 2002) -- Prohibit the importation of goods made by forced or indentured child labor.

H.Amdt.376 to H.R.3061 (Departments of Labor, Health and Human Services, and Education, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 2002) -- relating to the availability to the public of an invention and its benefits on reasonable terms

H.Amdt.404 to H.R.3338 (Department of Defense and Emergency Supplemental Appropriations for Recovery from and Response to Terrorist Attacks on the United States Act, 2002) -- Provide $100 million for federally qualified community health centers.

H.Amdt.255 to H.R.2691 (Department of the Interior and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 2004) -- Increase funding for weatherization assistance grants

H.Amdt.336 to H.R.2861 (Departments of Veterans Affairs and Housing and Urban Development, and Independent Agencies Appropriations Act, 2004) enacted as H.R.2673 (Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2004) -- Prohibit the use of funds in the bill to implement any policy prohibiting the Directors of the Veterans Integrated Service Networks from conducting outreach or marketing to enroll new veterans within their respective networks.

S.Amdt.737 to H.R.1591 (U.S. Troop Readiness, Veterans’ Care, Katrina Recovery, and Iraq Accountability Appropriations Act, 2007) -- fund weatherization assistance program

S.Amdt.1515 to H.R.6 (Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007) -- Establish an energy efficiency and renewable energy worker training program

S.Amdt.1525 to H.R.6 (Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007) -- use of solar hot water heaters in certain Federal buildings

S.Amdt.4384 to H.R.3221 (Housing and Economic Recovery Act of 2008) -- Increase specially adapted housing benefits for disabled veterans.

S.Amdt.1658 to S.1390 (National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2010) -- re child care available to deployed members of the reserve components of the Armed Forces

S.Amdt.2271 to H.R.2997 (Agriculture, Rural Development, Food and Drug Administration, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 2010) -- funds for the school community garden pilot program

S.Amdt.2601 to H.R.3326 (Department of Defense Appropriations Act, 2010) -- veteran outreach and reintegration services

S.Amdt.3738 to S.3217 (Restoring American Financial Stability Act of 2010) -- let the American people know the names of the recipients of over $2 trillion in taxpayer assistance from the Federal Reserve System

S.Amdt.306 to H.R.1 (American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009) -- Require recipients of TARP funding to meet strict H-1B worker hiring standard to ensure non-displacement of U.S. workers

S.Amdt.1658 to S.1390 (National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2010) -- report to Congress on financial assistance for child care available to deployed members of the reserve components of the Armed Forces.

S.Amdt.4280 to H.R.4899 (Supplemental Appropriations Act, 2010) -- make publicly available the contractor integrity performance database established under the Clean Contracting Act of 2008

S.2450 (Veterans’ Access to Care through Choice, Accountability, and Transparency Act of 2014) enacted as H.R.3230 (Veterans Access, Choice, and Accountability Act of 2014) -- VA reform bill

S.893 (Veterans’ Compensation Cost-of-Living Adjustment Act of 2013) -- increase rates of veterans’ disability compensation, additional compensation for dependents, etc.

S.Amdt.2146 to S.1471 (Alicia Dawn Koehl Respect for National Cemeteries Act) – re interring the remains and honoring the memory of a person in a national cemetery

The Right Wing meme being spread here often appears to be that, even with all his years of public service, a progressive like Bernie Sanders was too far to the left to accomplish anything, being a former Independent and all.

That one has to be able to find the buypartisan way, in other words, adopt the least offensive GOP legislation as your own if you wish to accomplish anything, if one is not a member of the Republican party itself.

The problem with this bullshit GOP meme is that it is completely false, he's actually one of the most effective members of Congress, passing bills, of all sizes and shapes, that have reshaped American policy on key issues like poverty, the environment and health care.


I wrote that 4 years ago and there is a bunch more at that link, however would people with a new list post anything new, not on this list, as a reply please so that I can update it?
Thanks a bunch!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #259)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 10:45 PM

284. BOOOOOOOOMMM!!

 




Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join The Revolution!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #1)


Response to Post removed (Reply #91)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:31 PM

119. Not a nice accusation

 

How do we know you're not one?
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #1)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:37 PM

183. Why all the dread? Because as in 2016, Bernie has not been vetted. But it's begun. First up....

 

First up, his rape column.



If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to kstewart33 (Reply #183)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:52 PM

197. 1972. Wonder if he'd say that now?

 

I'm thinking not.

I'm also thinking that people DO have fantasies. In fact, according to Psychology Today, there have been nine surveys published around women's rape fantasies between 1973 and 2008.

They show that about four in 10 women admit having them (31 to 57 percent) with a median frequency of about once a month. The actual prevalence of rape fantasies is probably higher because women may not feel comfortable admitting them.

For the latest report, in the Journal of Sex Research, psychologists at North Texas University asked 355 college women: How often have you fantasized being overpowered, forced, raped by a man or woman to have oral, vaginal, anal sex against your will?

Sixty-two percent said they'd had at least one such fantasy. But responses varied depending on the terminology used. When asked about being "overpowered by a man," 52 percent said they'd had that fantasy, the situation most typically depicted in women's romance fiction. But when the term was "rape," only 32 percent said they had had the fantasy. These findings are in the same ballpark as previous reports.


Now, just because someone fantasizes something, it doesn't mean they actually want it to happen, which is what this Psychology Today column says. And I agree - I've had these rescue fantasies, but as the article says, no desire to confront any bad people, though if it came to it I probably would. (And please do me the courtesy of not telling me that women don't need or desire to be rescued. I know that. This is a fantasy).

So, it was probably dumb of Bernie to actually SAY something like this, but as to the factual nature of his statement - yep.

Here's the link: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/all-about-sex/201001/womens-rape-fantasies-how-common-what-do-they-mean

But.........you surely know this.

And NO, I'm most certainly NOT condoning rape so please again do me the courtesy of not conflating this with that because both Bernie's statement, and my pointing it out are factual according to actual studies. I'm sure, in fact 100% absolutely certain, that Bernie does NOT condone rape.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to kstewart33 (Reply #183)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 02:35 PM

219. Really? I'm glad you're supporting the green new deal

 

By recycling attacks from 2016.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to kstewart33 (Reply #183)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 03:12 PM

226. Bring it!! I'm ALL for vetting ALL the candidates... Bernie looks GREAT by comparison!!

 


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join The Revolution!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to kstewart33 (Reply #183)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 08:10 PM

261. nicole wallace was bush's mouthpiece while he was committing war crimes? right?

 

and do you know what fiction is?

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to questionseverything (Reply #261)

Tue Feb 25, 2020, 02:23 PM

311. Nicole Wallace has nothing to do with the contents of Bernie's rape column.

 

This is a classic case of hate the message, attack the messenger.

The problem isn't fiction. It's very real. And expect his opponents to bring it up in tonight's debate.


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Joe Biden

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Response to kstewart33 (Reply #311)

Tue Feb 25, 2020, 06:31 PM

312. nicole wallace covered for bush while he was directing actual rape (war crimes)

 

I will always hate the war criminals of the bush presidency...sorry if that's a problem for you
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to questionseverything (Reply #312)

Tue Feb 25, 2020, 07:58 PM

313. Does that mean what she said is false?

 

I don't get the connection.
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Response to kstewart33 (Reply #313)

Tue Feb 25, 2020, 08:05 PM

314. it means she has no right to any opionion among decent people

 

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=tortured+iraqis&qpvt=tortured+iraqis&FORM=IGRE
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Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #1)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 03:42 PM

233. Exactly.

 

All this whining and carrying on. Relax, let it play out. Perhaps the majority of Democrats don’t, in fact, stand where you thought they did.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #1)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 09:52 PM

281. What has he acomplished in his legislative tenure?

 

You must have 1 or 2 examples right? ...One?
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Response to AncientGeezer (Reply #281)

Tue Feb 25, 2020, 02:16 AM

295. Seems you missed the above list. I'm reposting it below (thanks to Dragonfli)

 

Reposted from DU contributor, Dragonfli, above:

The following is a list of every substantive bill and amendment Sanders sponsored from the floor of Congress that became law (substantive meaning legislation renaming post offices is not included). Many of the roll-call amendments he passed with majority approval — like limiting the federal government’s ability to spy on people’s library records — were removed from bills when the House and Senate negotiated over the final legislative text and did not become law.

Because the list is derived from Congress’ official database of floor actions, it does not include achievements like his insertion of funding for veterans health care into an Iraq war spending bill because that occurred off of the House floor while the bill was in conference. Nor does the list include what is perhaps his most significant achievement — providing health care to an additional 10 million mostly low-income Americans by getting Senate majority leader Harry Reid to add $11 billion in funding for community health centers that provide care regardless of a person’s ability to pay to the 2010 Affordable Care Act in exchange for Sanders rallying liberal Democrats who were considering voting against the bill once conservative Democrats removed the public option.

Those who mistakenly believe that a President Sanders would be powerless in the face of a hostile Republican Congress should bear in mind that he managed to pass these bills and amendments in spite of Republican control of both the House (1995-2006) and the presidency (2001-2008). Furthermore, it was Republicans in the House and Senate who compromised with him (not the other way around) on major veterans legislation in 2014. His original bill expanding services for veterans and fixing the scandal-ridden Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) cost $17.3 billion. The price tag of the final compromise bill? $16.3 billion.
H.R.4206 (Cancer Registries Amendment Act) enacted as S. 3312 (Cancer Registries Amendment Act).

H.Amdt. 98 to H.R. 665 (Victims of Justice Act of 1995)

H.Amdt. 210 to H.R. 830 (Paperwork Reduction Act of 1995)

H.Amdt. 1203 to H.R. 3666 Departments of Veterans Affairs and Housing and Urban Development, and Independent Agencies Appropriations Act, 1997

H.J.Res.129 enacted as S.J.Res.38 (A joint resolution granting the consent of Congress to the Vermont-New Hampshire Interstate Public Water Supply Compact)

H.Amdt.174 to H.R.1757 (Foreign Affairs Reform and Restructuring Act of 1998)

H.Amdt.267 to H.R.2160 (Agriculture, Rural Development, Food and Drug Administration, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 1998)

H.Amdt.289 to H.R.2266 (Department of Defense Appropriations Act, 1998) -- National Guard Starbase program

H.Amdt.368 to H.R.2378 (Treasury and General Government Appropriations Act, 1998) -- Prohibit funds for the U.S. Customs Office from being used to allow the importation into the U.S. any material mined, produced, or manufactured by forced or indentured child labor.

H.Amdt.388 to H.R.2267 (Departments of Commerce, Justice, and State, the Judiciary, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 1998)

H.Amdt.569 to H.R.6 (Higher Education Amendments of 1998)

H.Amdt.614 to H.R.3694 (Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 1999) -- Reduce the intelligence budget for fiscal year 1999 by 5% with an exemption for the CIA Retirement and Disability Fund.

H.Amdt.626 to H.R.10 (Financial Services Act of 1998) -- Require the Comptroller General to report to Congress regarding the efficacy and benefits of uniformly limiting any commissions, fees, markups, or other costs incurred by customers in the acquisition of financial products.

H.Amdt.706 to H.R.4101 (Agriculture, Rural Development, Food and Drug Administration, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 1999) -- Increase funding for nutrition programs for senior citizens by $10 million

H.Amdt.708 to H.R.4103 (Department of Defense Appropriations Act, 1999) -- Prohibit funding to be used to enter into or renew a contract with any company owned, or partially owned, by the People’s Republic of China or the People’s Liberation Army of the People’s Republic of China.

H.Amdt.724 to H.R.4104 (Treasury and General Government Appropriations Act, 1999) enacted as H.R. 2490 (Treasury and General Government Appropriations Act, 2000) -- National Archives and Records Administration improvements

H.Amdt.127 to H.R.1906 (Agriculture, Rural Development, Food and Drug Administration, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 2000)

H.Amdt.136 to H.R.1906 (Agriculture, Rural Development, Food and Drug Administration, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 2000) -- national pilot program to promote agritourism

H.Amdt.258 to H.R.2466 (Department of the Interior and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 2000) enacted as H.R.3194 (Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2000) -- deficit reduction; and reduces fossil energy research and development funding

H.Amdt.442 to H.R.2684 (Departments of Veterans Affairs and Housing and Urban Development, and Independent Agencies Appropriations Act, 2000) -- health care services for veterans in rural areas

H.Amdt.791 to H.R.4577 (Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2001) -- (relating to the availability to the public of an invention and its benefits on reasonable terms)

H.Amdt.818 to H.R.4578 (Department of the Interior and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 2001) -- weatherization assistance and energy conservation programs and reduce fossil fuel energy research and development programs

H.Amdt.238 to H.R.2590 (Treasury and General Government Appropriations Act, 2002) -- Prohibit the importation of goods made by forced or indentured child labor.

H.Amdt.376 to H.R.3061 (Departments of Labor, Health and Human Services, and Education, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 2002) -- relating to the availability to the public of an invention and its benefits on reasonable terms

H.Amdt.404 to H.R.3338 (Department of Defense and Emergency Supplemental Appropriations for Recovery from and Response to Terrorist Attacks on the United States Act, 2002) -- Provide $100 million for federally qualified community health centers.

H.Amdt.255 to H.R.2691 (Department of the Interior and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 2004) -- Increase funding for weatherization assistance grants

H.Amdt.336 to H.R.2861 (Departments of Veterans Affairs and Housing and Urban Development, and Independent Agencies Appropriations Act, 2004) enacted as H.R.2673 (Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2004) -- Prohibit the use of funds in the bill to implement any policy prohibiting the Directors of the Veterans Integrated Service Networks from conducting outreach or marketing to enroll new veterans within their respective networks.

S.Amdt.737 to H.R.1591 (U.S. Troop Readiness, Veterans’ Care, Katrina Recovery, and Iraq Accountability Appropriations Act, 2007) -- fund weatherization assistance program

S.Amdt.1515 to H.R.6 (Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007) -- Establish an energy efficiency and renewable energy worker training program

S.Amdt.1525 to H.R.6 (Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007) -- use of solar hot water heaters in certain Federal buildings

S.Amdt.4384 to H.R.3221 (Housing and Economic Recovery Act of 2008) -- Increase specially adapted housing benefits for disabled veterans.

S.Amdt.1658 to S.1390 (National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2010) -- re child care available to deployed members of the reserve components of the Armed Forces

S.Amdt.2271 to H.R.2997 (Agriculture, Rural Development, Food and Drug Administration, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 2010) -- funds for the school community garden pilot program

S.Amdt.2601 to H.R.3326 (Department of Defense Appropriations Act, 2010) -- veteran outreach and reintegration services

S.Amdt.3738 to S.3217 (Restoring American Financial Stability Act of 2010) -- let the American people know the names of the recipients of over $2 trillion in taxpayer assistance from the Federal Reserve System

S.Amdt.306 to H.R.1 (American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009) -- Require recipients of TARP funding to meet strict H-1B worker hiring standard to ensure non-displacement of U.S. workers

S.Amdt.1658 to S.1390 (National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2010) -- report to Congress on financial assistance for child care available to deployed members of the reserve components of the Armed Forces.

S.Amdt.4280 to H.R.4899 (Supplemental Appropriations Act, 2010) -- make publicly available the contractor integrity performance database established under the Clean Contracting Act of 2008

S.2450 (Veterans’ Access to Care through Choice, Accountability, and Transparency Act of 2014) enacted as H.R.3230 (Veterans Access, Choice, and Accountability Act of 2014) -- VA reform bill

S.893 (Veterans’ Compensation Cost-of-Living Adjustment Act of 2013) -- increase rates of veterans’ disability compensation, additional compensation for dependents, etc.

S.Amdt.2146 to S.1471 (Alicia Dawn Koehl Respect for National Cemeteries Act) – re interring the remains and honoring the memory of a person in a national cemetery

The Right Wing meme being spread here often appears to be that, even with all his years of public service, a progressive like Bernie Sanders was too far to the left to accomplish anything, being a former Independent and all.

That one has to be able to find the buypartisan way, in other words, adopt the least offensive GOP legislation as your own if you wish to accomplish anything, if one is not a member of the Republican party itself.

The problem with this bullshit GOP meme is that it is completely false, he's actually one of the most effective members of Congress, passing bills, of all sizes and shapes, that have reshaped American policy on key issues like poverty, the environment and health care.


I wrote that 4 years ago and there is a bunch more at that link, however would people with a new list post anything new, not on this list, as a reply please so that I can update it?
Thanks a bunch!

—Dragonfli

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to DemocracyMouse (Reply #295)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 03:14 PM

333. I didn't miss squat.....amendments...that's your go to?

 

Amendments....? Really.. you posted that as an example of legislative history..amendments to current Legislation?
Hmmmm. That ain't it.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:27 AM

2. What impact do the primaries have on the stock market?

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Renew Deal (Reply #2)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:09 PM

64. Not as much as pandemic fears

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Renew Deal (Reply #2)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:21 PM

174. Just read an article this morning in Barron's

 

that some Wall St. analysts are saying today’s drop is not just about corona virus. Included among other reasons was this:

And don’t forget about the Nevada caucus, where Bernie Sanders scored a big victory. “Politically, Sanders won the Nevada Caucus with more than 40% of the vote, implying his base is bigger than thought, meaning he might be a more formidable opponent to Trump than what the market was previously thinking,” writes The Sevens Report’s Tom Essaye.
.

Don’t know whether this is just an outlier. But it’s something that Wall St might actually be reacting to Sanders lead — meaning they think he could win against tRump I assume.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to KPN (Reply #174)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 10:05 PM

283. 😂 🤣 😂

 

😲 look at the shirtless thief go!

What a load of hogwash & Barron's is spewing it.

This piece of ripe 💩 is not as evil as Putin's lie that the U.S. manufactured the virus; it is as false.

Look at the world! Tell me what place is as stable and as gynormous as we are? There isn't anywhere. That is why our economy recovered so fast after the electoral college selected this president after Barack Obama reassured everyone.

If the market can handle an unindicted ci-conspirator who can rarely string a coherent sentence together and thinks threatening the federal reserve is breakfast, the market will breeze by whoever we pick as a nominee.

The virus has shutdown major cities, dried up tourists and noticeable slowed the second largest economy in the world.

Bernie's Nevada win is a teeny tiny blip in comparison.

Oh & Senator Sanders CAN beat this president. We could beat him with a door hanger.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Tweedy (Reply #283)

Tue Feb 25, 2020, 01:13 AM

291. Wtf?

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to KPN (Reply #291)

Tue Feb 25, 2020, 01:24 AM

292. The Barron's suggestion is worthless

 

Bernie's win in Nevada did not blip the stock market.

The coronovirus crashed the market. This president's perpetual ineptness helped, because who out there actually believes he can solve anything?

This is why any of our candidates can beat the pretender in the White House.

Long story shorter
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:27 AM

3. Well said! n/t

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:27 AM

4. Agreed.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:29 AM

5. With one comment

 

Bernie put a vulnerable House freshman in greater danger.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to RandySF (Reply #5)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:36 AM

12. True - I dare anyone to mock this freshman's astonishment and dread. This is real life

 

and we are taking a big gamble.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to RandySF (Reply #5)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:37 AM

14. That kept me awake last night. And he increases polarization as the new normal. Although...

 

... I'm not sure anyone could decrease it. There was no one more committed to working with the other side than Obama, and the Repubs wouldn't even accept invitations to White House dinners. (So I'm told... haven't checked with Snopes. Does anyone else know?)
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to RandySF (Reply #5)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:12 PM

161. And no amount of moonbeams and rainbows will change that

 

This idea that somehow "Bernie is going to bring all the people together" is just not realistic...I pray I'm wrong but I don't see it...and it has absolutely nothing to do with policy.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to RandySF (Reply #5)

Tue Feb 25, 2020, 11:47 AM

309. could you elaborate on this

 

I don't have the first idea what this is about
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:29 AM

6. Thank you!

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:29 AM

7. Thank you!

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:32 AM

8. Socialism/revolution. A dreaded hard sell to the American voter.

 

Our perception of Bernie's candidacy here at DU doesn't amount to a hill of beans.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to oasis (Reply #8)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:40 AM

16. oh FFS. Yes, telling people they may get to go to the doctor

 

whether or not they have a job at the moment is a hard sell.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #16)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:51 AM

30. Our #1 task will be getting past the socialist/revolution label. Try

 

getting your foot in the door with that perceived sponsorship.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to oasis (Reply #30)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:06 PM

55. ehhhh

 

that only matters to older people. 65+

Bernie carved out a whole new swath of younger voters to take their place.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to NJCher (Reply #55)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:10 PM

66. "only matters to older people".

 

Alrighty then.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to oasis (Reply #66)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:14 PM

78. I'm older

 

so what.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to NJCher (Reply #78)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:22 PM

94. Yes, so what? It was you who made the assertion.

 

BTW, older folks are more reliable voters, so Bernie's campaign has a lot of work to do trying to re-program them into embracing far left concepts.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to oasis (Reply #94)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:29 PM

112. I'm well aware of that

 

they are reliable voters because they're going to make damn sure nothing happens to Social Security.

Younger voters now have something to go for: the possibility of getting out of college debt. The possibility of an affordable education. That's the same thing and they WILL vote for it. I know because I deal with high school students and college-age students in my job. But more important just look at the demographic figures in the primaries. That proves it.

No one else ever gave them any kind of financial incentive to care about voting. Instead we just dumped debt, the decreased possibility of buying a house, ever, and contract jobs on these kids. No country ever left a lower standard of living to its younger generation.

It is a disgrace--what this country has done to its younger generation.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to NJCher (Reply #112)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:53 PM

142. Sadly, they'll end up with ZERO if Dems put forward a candidate

 

who will fall short of winning the Presidency and lose both houses of congress. It'll be a long recovery period for Democrats after such a disaster.

With so much at stake, this is no time to roll the dice.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to NJCher (Reply #78)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:33 PM

121. I'm 54

 

And Bernie or Warren is who I want to see win
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to NJCher (Reply #78)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 05:16 PM

238. I am 74 and Have Waited 50 Years...

 

I am. 74 and have waited 50 years for candidates like Warren and Sanders. I have been funding them to the best of my ability because for once, we have the chance of a lifetime to get the kind of government I want!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to McKim (Reply #238)

Tue Feb 25, 2020, 04:32 AM

300. Yes, yes a thousand times yes. We actually made some progress 50+ yrs back.

 

Ended a war, fought for Civil Rights, included women, kicked out Nixon.

The times they are a changin'
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Response to NJCher (Reply #55)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:39 PM

127. Yeah by promising the moon.

 

What happens to those young voters when he fails to deliver. I live in a world of reality. Is he just going to wave his magic wand and we'll all be living in a utopian world where everything is free. That definitely is not reality.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Butterflylady (Reply #127)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:55 PM

200. good observation...

 

in 2010, I distinctly remember so many people here on DU complaining about Obama and that he hadn't done enough of what they expected... said they couldn't support him again, said they weren't going to vote, had given up... my response was always... "John Boehner" and ya know what... enough people that were so excited about Obama become disillusioned that they didn't vote and we got "John Boehner"...

I can see that happening in 2022...
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Response to handmade34 (Reply #200)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 09:36 PM

271. +1

 

I remember the "disappointment", POSUCS and people who posted "kill the bill" about the ACA because it didn't end up with a public option!

These people do not understand the Senate. They should be working much harder on the Senate - who even cares which of the Ds in President? They would sign the bills if they made it through the Senate.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to Butterflylady (Reply #127)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 02:02 PM

205. Just maybe they will know the fight

 

You don't think that Democratic Candidates have promised a better world for the Young Voters for years. In your words with some changes … What happened to those young voters when Democratic Candidates ran before and didn't deliver? Maybe they realized that a lot of previous campaigns were just lip service and politics. If Bernie fights for the things they believe in and were told he believes int, it may not and in my opinion wont have the consequences you put forth as a certainty. My opinion is based on the fact that the Republicans have kept power even though a minority of this country by putting forth candidates like Reagan who did not actually accomplish the promises to his electorate such as eliminating abortion. However, they felt that he was consistent, was not lieing, and actually fought for what he believe in. That, in my opinion, is the actual factor in determining the reaction of the electorate to any candidate whether its Biden, Bernie or any other candidate we put up. Public and Private positions might not really work as well as consistency and belief.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to Butterflylady (Reply #127)

Tue Feb 25, 2020, 04:56 AM

302. Yup, and handing the election to the Idiot

 

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Joe Biden

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Response to NJCher (Reply #55)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:00 PM

148. You need enough of them to actually vote

 

And it really isn't a smart move to alienate the over 65 folks, because a whole lot of them DO vote.

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to NJCher (Reply #55)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:13 PM

166. But older voters tend to vote more reliably.

 

They actually get up off their asses and go vote.

I will never forget the interview with the two exhilarated Bernie supporting college kids just before the 2016 Iowa caucuses. Lordy they were high on Bernie.

And then came the question: “so, you can’t wait to go to the caucuses and vote for Bernie then?” Answer from both of them. “Uh, no, I have waterpolo practice.”

And after Hillary won the nomination? You heard lots of wailing and whining and insistence that he woulda/coulda/shoulda won! “But the rallies!!! The rallies!!!”

The rallies. Reality check: the rallies don’t mean squat if you don’t follow up and go VOTE. I don’t care how big they supposedly were. Or how many were in the overflow rooms or outside the arenas. Absolutely MEANINGLESS if those numbers don’t show up to VOTE.

When the kids yelling their hearts out for Bernie in the flesh and online, and actually flex the muscle of their numbers and enthusiasm, AND GET THEIR ASSES TO THE POLLS AND VOTE, then I’ll be a believer.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to NJCher (Reply #55)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 02:13 PM

210. "Older people" are the only people who need medical care?

 

There are plenty of young people struggling with medical debt. I'd love to live in whatever privileged bubble you call home.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to NJCher (Reply #55)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 06:54 PM

249. Doesn't even apply across the board to old people.

 

I'm 79 and not only do I support Bernie, the bulk of my age group friends do as well. They call every Democratic candidate a socialist. Overuse of the "S" word has totally blunted it's impact.
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Response to oasis (Reply #30)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 03:30 PM

232. Good point. Because God knows, Republicans have never called a Democrat "socialist" before.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to beerandjesus (Reply #232)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 03:56 PM

234. This time around, Republicans will be gifted with a proud proclaimer

 

complete with decades of video footage.
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Response to beerandjesus (Reply #232)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 07:35 PM

257. Yes it depends on if the person is a democrat for republicans . IOKIYAR -then it's "different "

 



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Undecided

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Response to oasis (Reply #30)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 07:04 PM

250. The use the socialist label on every nominee.

 

If Bloomberg wins the nomination, they will call him a socialist, too. I don't think we should go for the vote of people who fall for scare words and people who own or won't use dictionaries. I think the people that fall into those groups will vote Republican anyway.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to Gore1FL (Reply #250)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 07:36 PM

258. There's still enough "Reagan Democrat" types in swing states that

 

could make a difference. Hillary lost by a few thousand votes on a far less controversial issue. Voters in states like WI, MI ,PA and Florida could be swayed back to "D" unless they are constantly bombarded through election eve with threats of a socialist revolution.
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Response to oasis (Reply #258)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 09:24 PM

268. I don't think that is true.

 

We've tried to get the "Reagan Democrat" for 30 years. They either don't exist or they cannot be swayed. When we win we invariably do so through excitement, not veering away from our values.

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to oasis (Reply #30)

Tue Feb 25, 2020, 10:38 AM

308. The word liberal was made an evil word by

 

a POTUS 40 years ago and the unwashed masses still believe that BS. Most Americans will NOT get past the Socialism word.
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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #16)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:55 AM

35. It IS. Especially when they watch FOX all day long. People vote against their interest ALL the time.

 

Nothing new. In fact, the vast majority of people voting red have voted against their personal interest since the Republican party has perfected scapegoating. That's why we have a rise in racism, xenophobia, & misogyny. They have been dividing people to control them for decades. So trot out the boogyman (socialism/communism) and people WILL go nuts because, as we all know and have seen, fear is a really good motivator.
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Response to Vivienne235729 (Reply #35)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:05 PM

52. It's not just FOX, but the whole adjacent right wing Sinclair broadcast group.

 

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Response to ancianita (Reply #52)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:11 PM

71. Yes! Sometimes I think the sinclair broadcasting group is more insidious than fox

 

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Response to Vivienne235729 (Reply #71)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:23 PM

99. Oh, it IS more insidious and unknown to Democratic voters! Because its audience is MUCH larger.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to ancianita (Reply #99)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:25 PM

103. +1000

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Vivienne235729 (Reply #35)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:07 PM

57. people who watch Fox

 

are never going to vote for a Democrat anyway.

People are not going nuts.

Hysteria.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to NJCher (Reply #57)


Response to Post removed (Reply #77)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:17 PM

84. sure they will

 

All trump does is blow up our institutions.

Bernie will give them the same "blow up," only it will be a positive change. A change that is in their best interests.

Families everywhere have kids who are in debt up to their ears over college debt. Families everywhere have been hurt or know someone who was hurt in the home mortgage meltdown. The working class is sick of not seeing a significant raise in their cost of living. This is what people are upset about: that there has been no help for the American middle class.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to NJCher (Reply #84)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:21 PM

90. You need to keep up. He has no viable plan to implement his pie in the sky promises

 

And apparently now, his voters are ok w that bc it's good enough that he talks the talk. He doesn't have to walk the walk.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Vivienne235729 (Reply #90)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:27 PM

107. Did you know that FDR didn't design Social Security? Did you know that Obama didn't design Obamacare

 

etc. etc.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #107)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:41 PM

129. And your point is?

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to NJCher (Reply #84)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:25 PM

177. If you are referring to Fox Nooz voters

 

No they won't vote for a democrat. They are completely misinformed and loving it!
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to Post removed (Reply #77)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:19 PM

87. Damn right. I talk to them several times a week.

 

Leave it to Democrats to eff up a sure thing.
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Response to Post removed (Reply #77)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:25 PM

105. David Frum said he will vote for Sanders

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to AlexSFCA (Reply #105)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:30 PM

116. Glad David Frum can make you feel better. I live in a red area. I SEE the

 

Fear in conservatives when you bring up bernie. That's not calculated.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to AlexSFCA (Reply #105)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:42 PM

131. Saying and doing are two different things.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to AlexSFCA (Reply #105)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:04 PM

153. Of course. Frum wants to revive the pre-Trump GOP. He expects

 

the ineptitude of an "establishment" free, far left leaning Bernie administration will deliver the WH back into Republican hands in 2024.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Vivienne235729 (Reply #35)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 09:38 PM

273. There's a theory out there that they do vote their interest

 

the problem is we don't understand what their interests are.

We think they are economic. But we've seen proof that some people want, for example, abortion to be illegal, and that is their greatest interest, even over their own economic situation.

Or any other issue that inspires the deplorables.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #16)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:32 PM

180. Interesting phrasing

 

How can anyone disagree that if you ask young people if someone should be able to go to the doctor they would say yes.

Morally it is true but we have to win or people with healthcare will lose it too. That is not moral either.

People without healthcare are not going to care about attack like taxes going up or choices being taken away.

People with gold plated plans will care about those things, but let’s ignore that for now.

It’s the people between who need persuading. In liberal cities like new york, that’s not too hard.

In other places you’re much more likely to have someone who has just watched fox new or listened to talk radio and knows the talking points about taxes going up and losing your employer insurance.

In those circles it’s much easier to explain buy in which doesn’t have to raise taxes (maybe we just need a profiteering tax) and you get an extra choice

Trying to explain how you come out ahead even if there are some extra taxes and that the government plan will be better is actually difficult.

To me the argument to get people off employer insurance is easier after there is a plan up and running. Note that medicare is not the same plan as medicare for all all
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #16)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:43 PM

189. FFS. FDR was a proud capitalist, not a socialist.

 

He must be rolling in his grave to hear someone calling his programs socialist.
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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:33 AM

9. He Is running on giving away free things with no way to pay for it or get it done.

 

He is a self proclaimed dem socialist and socialist prior and that in itself creates questions as to his general election viability.

It is not as simple as being against Bernie. There is some thought put into it.

Never mind the fact he disses Democrats every chance he gets.

Never mind the fact he kept secret Russians working to help him.
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Response to boston bean (Reply #9)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:40 AM

17. Trump will build the wall. Bernie will give you free college, childcare, healthcare,

 

and a new car (with the full cooperation of a GOP Congress)




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Response to dalton99a (Reply #17)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 03:19 PM

229. Ah but it's worse

 

Trump promised free wall that the Mexicans would pay for

The promise of free college, etc includes some tax
increases with some going to working people. For example 29K is where payroll taxes would increase (at least in some reports)

That is not exactly free depending on where you sit.

I’d actually rather have it be promised as completely free. Republicans proved that type of lie works.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to boston bean (Reply #9)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:45 AM

25. He kept secret Russians working to help him?

 

Please be careful not to drink the Kool-Aid.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to zanana1 (Reply #25)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:30 PM

114. and Warren switched from Republican to

 

Democratic party in the 90s and who cares?
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Response to boston bean (Reply #9)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:06 PM

54. Freebies

 

is all some folks think they will get. Everyone should know by now that he would have to go through Congress and I don't think that is going to happen.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to boston bean (Reply #9)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:14 PM

76. not true at all

 

He clearly explains what a Democratic socialist is.

He associates it in the listener's mind with countries like Denmark and Sweden. Nobody thinks of scary red commies with those countries.

Thought put into it? It's raw emotionalism.

He does not dis Democrats every chance he gets. Why do you feel the need to lie about this? There is article after article on the political and news sites that say how cautious he is about criticizing Democrats. On the few occasions he has, this place has a meltdown.

Now, how about you prove me wrong. You show me dozens of examples of Bernie criticizing Democrats. Then I'll apologize to you.

Bernie did not ask the Russians to help him.

Stop lying. Just stop lying. It's not serving any purpose. If you have issues, then get some help.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to boston bean (Reply #9)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:15 PM

82. Describing programs that help people as free stuff?

 

Who does that?

Every program is funded through taxes. Nothing is free about that.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #82)

Tue Feb 25, 2020, 02:12 AM

294. "Describing programs that help people as free stuff? Who does that?"

 

Republicans. That's who.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to boston bean (Reply #9)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:36 PM

125. Umm

 

Free things without paying for it?
Sounds like a right wing talking point to me.🙄
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:35 AM

10. Resignation is now setting in.

 

There are a number of people here who believe, in good faith, that a Sanders nomination will be a disaster for the party. I hear that, and I understand where they are coming from, even if I don't agree.

But it feels to me like the NV caucus results are sinking in on DU and that a lot of people are "adjusting" to the idea that Sanders may very well be our nominee. Give them time. Most of them will come around.

It's not shocking that Bernie won NV. It's shocking that Bernie won NV by the enormous margin that he did. It's seriously shocking that he won the Latino vote by a 37% margin. Going into Super Tuesday, Bernie is poised to win an enormous number of delegates in CA and TX if his strong Latino support continues, and there is no reason to believe that it won't. Sanders may even win SC and, in doing so, sink Biden's campaign. People here are adjusting to this new reality. It's tough, but I, personally, have no problem with Bernie's platform. He may not be able to pass any of it, but it looks like the Democratic voters in our primaries and caucuses don't care whether or not Bernie can accomplish his legislative goals. They're voting for him because he's at least willing to argue that the people deserve the things he is promising. Apparently, that's enough.

-Laelth
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Laelth (Reply #10)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:42 AM

20. I agree that if Sanders solidifies the nomination

 

that reality will sink in at DU. What I don't understand is all of the dread before this point.
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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #20)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:49 AM

29. Admittedly, much of that dread felt un-Democratic to me. n/t

 



-Laelth
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Joe Biden

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #20)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:58 AM

40. I think it is based more on emotion than anything else

 

Many are trying to make an analogy ot McGovern but it's a different time, different electorate and much different situation than in 1972. When presented with a well-argued counterpoint to this, the responses were just anecdotal or repetitious. Same as with the world-is-coming-to-an-end posts of the last few days. None used data because that would fly in the face of the rant. In the end, I think a lot of it is left over from 2016 and those who hate Bernie with a passion.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #20)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:38 PM

184. The dread is because some of us realize that BS

 

Cannot win the election. No how. No way. Isn’t gonna happen. I truly hope he’s not our nominee because imo it’s a guarantee of 4 more years of trump. BS will be obliterated in the general election. And we will be screwed for many years to come. And yes, my stomach knots up with fear and huge dread every time I think about the possibility of BS being our nominee. I will hold my nose with great sadness to vote for him if I must but it won’t be with any joy and my vote won't make one iota of difference. And btw-just saw a short clip on tv noon news (on vaca here in FL) of a prominent SC legislator stating that South Carolinians are pretty leery about the title of socialist. And there you have it in a nutshell. Socialist. Socialist. Socialist. South Carolinians aren’t alone in being leery. The repubs are gonna pound that word home. That is what will lose the general election for BS and all of us. And his unpleasant demeanor isn’t going to help him any either. (You can poo poo that all you want but it matters.) Nor his dishonesty in his refusal to release his medical records. And his silence about Russia’s assistance to his campaign and so much more. Yep-Dread is a good description.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Laelth (Reply #10)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:53 PM

198. Nope, I still have hope the Bloomberg can beat Sanders...and I will vote for him...as he has a shot

 

at the general.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Laelth (Reply #10)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 03:18 PM

228. Yes denial&anger is startin to give way to acceptance of Bernie as the inevitable Democratic nominee

 

It's nice to see that.


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join The Revolution!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:36 AM

11. Thank you.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:37 AM

13. .

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #13)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:44 AM

23. +1 LOL. Nicely done. n/t

 



-Laelth
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to jberryhill (Reply #13)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:15 PM

167. perfect mascot for DU Primaries Forum

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:38 AM

15. McGovern, McGovern, McGovern (and Goldwater).

 

Democrats LOVED McGovern. He had wonderful policies.
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Response to LAS14 (Reply #15)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:41 AM

18. you know who else democrats loved b/c of his wonderful policies? FDR

 

and that beautiful bastard kept getting elected in landslides until he died.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #18)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:56 AM

37. But remember that FDR was part of the aristocracy

 

and had tons of social and political clout, as did his wife and their extended families.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to OregonBlue (Reply #37)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:00 PM

45. all Sanders has is the love of a large portion of the populace

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #45)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:22 PM

93. I'm very afraid it's just not large enough. And it requires love to join with Sanders, I think. nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to LAS14 (Reply #93)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:22 PM

95. or a working brain that understands Keynesian economics

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #95)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:24 PM

102. I do have a working brain, thank you. Too bad you can't allow for such a possibility in..

 

... someone who disagrees with you.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #95)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:49 PM

195. Winning hearts and minds as usual.

 



I'm not listening to the Russian noise pretending he should be crowned already.

The odds of him even making it a whole term are what? 20%? An 80 year old who just had a heart attack and stent placed has about 3-5 years if he is incredibly lucky. This is why we won't be seeing any medical records come out of camp Sanders.

He is Trump's wet dream to run against.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #45)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 05:38 PM

241. But maybe not a large enough portion of the population to beat Trump

 

and sadly not enough of Congress to get much done I'm afraid. I like Bernie but I don't think he can win.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to OregonBlue (Reply #241)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 07:08 PM

251. I remember when Obama couldn't win in 2008 nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Gore1FL (Reply #251)

Tue Feb 25, 2020, 12:29 PM

310. Me too. I'm just skeptical still. May change my mind.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #18)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:13 PM

75. FDR had swing state appeal McGovern and Sanders does not historically outside the MOE

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #18)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 09:37 PM

272. Remember the Depression?

 

Without that, no one would have gotten those policies. People didn't want them until they realized how bad it could get. But now it has been 80 years. It is nowhere near that bad.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to LAS14 (Reply #15)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:43 AM

21. Shouldn't we remain faithful to Democratic ideals, win or lose?

 

Of what value is our party to the American people if we don't?





Let's try being real Democrats for a change.



-Laelth
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Laelth (Reply #21)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 07:11 PM

253. Exactly.

 

If there is a reason Democrats don't get the vote it's because we, as a party, have bought the GPO talking points and are afraid of our own positions.

Republicans won't vote for GOP-Lite. Likewise, GOP-Lite generates no excitement for Democrats. We just keep trying the same thing and expecting different results.



If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to Gore1FL (Reply #253)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 08:39 PM

263. Hell yes. As Truman told us ...

 

... given a choice between a real Republican and a phony Republican, the people will choose the real Republican every time. We can not be phony Republicans.

If the people want universal, government-funded health care, or a massive increase in the minimum wage, or free tuition at public colleges, or significant student loan debt relief, our job, as Democrats, is to do our best to give the people what they want.

Barack Obama’s campaign slogan was “Yes. We can.,” not “No. We can’t.” We have to try, at least, to give the people what they think, rightly, that they deserve. The UK has universal, government-funded healthcare. They have a much higher minimum wage. They have state-funded college education, and, as a result, their people are not drowning in student loan debt. If the UK can do it, so can we.

This is what the Democratic Party IS FOR.

-Laelth

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Joe Biden

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Response to LAS14 (Reply #15)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:04 PM

51. Democrats did not love McGovern

 

Many elements of the party were against him, including labor unions that were run by racists, southern white Democrats, and cold warriors like Scoop Jackson. The party undercut him as did his decision to pick Eagleton.

Plus, and most importantly, 2020 is NOT 1972.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Bradshaw3 (Reply #51)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:09 PM

65. +1 n/t

 

-Laelth
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Joe Biden

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Response to Bradshaw3 (Reply #51)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:14 PM

79. "Many elements of the party were against him" ... yep, sounding like McGovern who had no swing state

 

... appeal just like Sanders
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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #79)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:23 PM

98. Wrong take

 

The analogy is wrong, which I used actual factual examples to show, so you deflect to another false assumption. Are you now going to tell us that 2020 is just like 1972?

Here is an intelligent discussion of the two candidates policies (yes, many elements are similar) and what makes 2020 not like 1972. I hope you read it:
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/02/bernie-sanders-george-mcgovern/606883/
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Bradshaw3 (Reply #51)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:15 PM

81. Thank you

 

this McGovern talking point is one of the dumbest yet
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Undecided

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:42 AM

19. Bernie is surely causing a lot of angst.

 

What on earth will happen to the precious system if we allow those grassroots folks to start influencing the dialogue and impacting how things are done? For instance, drug companies have to help write drug policy because who else knows more about drugs?
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to democrank (Reply #19)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:43 AM

22. lol, exactly

 

it is fear of the unwashed masses having a say, apparently
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Undecided

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #22)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:48 AM

28. no

 

they already did and they elected Trump. the worry is that Sanders will make it easier for them to do it again.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Deero (Reply #28)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:04 PM

285. ...

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:45 AM

24. It shouldn't surprise anyone he's doing well. Guy got 43% of the vote in the 2016 primary...

 

...seems like the expansion of the field didn't really do much to put a dent in that.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to TCJ70 (Reply #24)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:03 PM

50. I don't think there was ever more than three or four viable candidates

 

in the Democratic field. The rest were selling books.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:45 AM

26. Actually both Trump and Sanders fit one common definition of populist

 


https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=populist+definition&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

noun: populist; plural noun: populists
a person, especially a politician, who strives to appeal to ordinary people who feel that their concerns are disregarded by established elite groups.

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:47 AM

27. It not the DU freaking me out

 

It’s the people around me in real life.
They will never vote for a socialist.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to blue cat (Reply #27)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:57 AM

38. whatever they think that means

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:51 AM

31. How are we going to insult people into exalting Sanders??

 

“What the hell is wrong with everyone”?

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to R B Garr (Reply #31)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:24 PM

100. no one is asking for that

 

Just stop with the hysteria already. It's old and it doesn't serve anyone well.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to NJCher (Reply #100)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:27 PM

108. The "hysteria" is coming from those who think insulting

 

people into supporting Sanders is going to work (hysteria is your word). I have many words to describe what that is, but I used your word “hysteria” for now...
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to R B Garr (Reply #108)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:30 PM

117. if you call that an insult

 

you are very thin-skinned. No one has said anything insulting to you.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to NJCher (Reply #117)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:38 PM

126. LOL! Oh dear dear. More insults.

 

So my original point remains. See my first post. And thanks for your perfect examples.
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Joe Biden

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Response to R B Garr (Reply #126)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:06 PM

156. Right? It's almost performance art.

 

"No one is insulting you! You're very thin skinned!"

LOL

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #156)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:18 PM

169. lol, exactly!

 

great description
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to R B Garr (Reply #31)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:12 PM

162. We wont have to.

 

Donald J Trump is the alternative to who ever the nominee is.

Democracy will win the day.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to OneCrazyDiamond (Reply #162)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:16 PM

168. That's a disaster--having Trump explain Bernie's socialism.

 

That’s exactly what Trump wants.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:52 AM

32. Early in the 2016 primary

 

This board was pretty vocally pro-Bernie. Then the pushback started and it was pretty brutal. A lot of people left and never came back. The people that hate Bernie and blame him for 2016 have created a bubble for themselves here.
Let me make it clear that having reservations about Bernie doesn't make you a Bernie hater. There's plenty to be concerned about.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to ibegurpard (Reply #32)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:31 PM

178. The extreme vitriol

 

leveled at those of us who supported Bernie--and who were opposed to Hillary--was virulent and disgusting. Then, we were told that we had to support Hillary if we wanted to participate in DU. I left. For years.

Recently, while enjoying SCE's iconic lolzcats, I made the mistake of commenting on some anti-Bernie posts. After I had posted three times, I started getting messages that my comments were removed, and that I have been banned from the Bernie2020 group, and that one more time will get me suspended.

I only come back for SCE and toons. The rest has become the sort of patriotism Johnson decried more than two hundred years ago. When it's all said and done, party affiliation will be moot. Actually, shouldn't party affiliation be the LAST metric with which we measure our candidates?

#Bernie2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to chervilant (Reply #178)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 08:06 PM

260. I left because of how nasty and anti Sanders it became here

 

Posted at 99 after, then nowhere much after the 2018 elections. Just popped my head back in now.
My first time back in about 3 years, cheers. Has it gotten any better here in the last three years? (I haven't explored many posts yet but getting concerned that maybe this place hates Bernie people)
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #260)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 09:04 AM

324. I have missed you.

 

I bookmarked one of your posts long ago and hoped to share in on my fb feed. You remain a voice of sanity in this wilderness of neoliberals and Clinton sycophants.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to ibegurpard (Reply #32)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 09:40 PM

274. They were Hillary haters and kept it up after

 

she won the nomination.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:56 AM

36. Sanders has no historical swing state appeal outside of MOE, national polling means nothing

 

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Joe Biden

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #36)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:58 AM

41. this talking point will only last until super tuesday

 

then what will you use?
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Undecided

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #41)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:01 PM

47. What does super Tuesday have to do with swing states? Sanders can win the nomination and lose the

 

... swing states and down ballots afterwards.

Right now we're being warned Sanders isn't good against Trump in the swing states.

We don't have an excuse and I don't see how that helps America
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #47)

Tue Feb 25, 2020, 04:07 AM

297. Well... if you're gonna take it there...

 

Biden’s run for president three times and hasn’t one a swing state (or any state) yet. See how that works?
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to McTwisty (Reply #297)

Tue Feb 25, 2020, 05:31 AM

303. No, not at all. We're being warned Sanders is doing horrible to bad in swing states and since we've

 

... not had a democratically elected republican president in 20 years that's where elections are decided not nationally.

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Joe Biden

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #36)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 09:45 PM

276. Yes, and Biden has foreign policy experience

 

to fix up what dotard has messed up. Klobuchar also has some swing state ability. And they are both actual Democrats who haven't spent so much time trashing the party.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to treestar (Reply #276)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 09:50 PM

279. +1

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:57 AM

39. I'm more astounded that he is getting support

 

I feel like I know how mainstream Republicans must have felt as Donald Trump yelled his way to ascendency in the 2016 primaries.

We seem to be creating a mirror-image of that populist, anti-establishment, angry, grievance-based race.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to frazzled (Reply #39)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:59 AM

42. see, I find this argument to be completely incomprehensible

 

there is a 180 degree difference between being angry and voting to hurt people, and being angry and voting to help people.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #42)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:07 PM

56. Trump's supporters thought (and still think)

 

he was/is helping them. That's not a convincing argument at all.

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to frazzled (Reply #39)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:10 PM

68. From your mouth to the gods' ears.

 

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Joe Biden

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Response to frazzled (Reply #39)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 05:35 PM

240. indeed

 

when I look at who has dropped out and who is left, THAT is what ASTOUNDS me
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Undecided

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:59 AM

43. Everyone? There's a sizable number of DU'ers who agree with you, including me.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:00 PM

44. The answer is demographics; DU is mostly 60+ and overwhelmingly white

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:00 PM

46. Get him to stand up straight,

 

stop waving his arms around and yelling at everybody, and he could turn into a viable candidate for me.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to Mr.Bill (Reply #46)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:07 PM

58. I'll be sure to tell that to people who die from lack of health coverage

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #58)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:09 PM

63. Okay, prove to me that no one else will die from lack of health coverage

 

if he is elected.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:01 PM

48. The FDR fantasy still makes me giggle.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to HarlanPepper (Reply #48)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:07 PM

59. The country was in the middle of an economic disaster when FDR was elected.

 

It's the complete opposite today.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Mr.Bill (Reply #59)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:08 PM

61. Also supermajorities in the house and senate

 

I know, I know details shmetails.
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Joe Biden

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Response to Mr.Bill (Reply #59)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:08 PM

62. a huge portion of our citizens are facing a long, slow, economic disaster

 

called not having enough money to live
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #62)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:11 PM

70. It's nothing like what was happening in 1932.

 

There was virtually no safety net provided by the federal government then.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Mr.Bill (Reply #70)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:12 PM

74. of course not

 

who was making that argument?
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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #74)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:15 PM

80. The many on this forum that seem to be presenting Bernie as the second coming of FDR.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Mr.Bill (Reply #80)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:16 PM

83. his suggested reforms are very much in the style of FDR era policies

 

And yet, it isn't 1932. Strange.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #83)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:18 PM

85. And that is the problem. n/t

 

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Joe Biden

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Response to Mr.Bill (Reply #85)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:22 PM

92. That's like, your opinion, man

 

as far as I can tell, FDR was America's greatest president, saved our country, beat Hitler and global fascism, kept millions from starving to death, and had policies so awesome that the GOP could never beat him.

your mileage may vary - but maybe a site for Democrats isn't the place to bash FDR's policies?
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #92)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:24 PM

101. I agree with everything you say about FDR.

 

And he was the perfect president...in 1932.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Mr.Bill (Reply #101)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:32 PM

120. got it. the middle of the Great Depression is the only appropriate time to try to help people

 

with government policies
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Undecided

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #120)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:33 PM

122. No, but it was a great time to start to.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #92)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:10 PM

158. I bet there are a few Japanese Americans who spent the war in cages who would disagree.

 

A few blacks in the south as well given that FDR ignored lynchings out of political expediency. Of course you gloss over all that, or rather, don’t mention it at all “Cuz Bernie!1”.

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Mr.Bill (Reply #70)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:19 PM

86. yeah?

 

Have you seen the situation of the homeless in California?

Where is their safety net?



this is Oakland, CA.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to NJCher (Reply #86)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:27 PM

109. Many of those people have jobs and are getting

 

some sort of public assistance. It's just not enough to live in a city where a studio apartment rents for 4K a month.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to NJCher (Reply #86)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:29 PM

113. CA's the richest state, in the black, the planet's 6th largest economy, and STILL hasn't fixed this.

 

When it does, if it doesn, the nation will have a safety net model.

Doesn't mean the feds will ever scale CA's solution, either, since 49 other states might not opt into it.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to ancianita (Reply #113)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:45 PM

132. Governor Newsom announced last week what could be a great idea if it works.

 

He wants doctors to write prescriptions for housing if mental illness is why they are homeless. I don't know how this will play out, but the arguement is housing is a necessary part of the cure. Perhaps this could free up MediCal funding to go towards affordable housing. Maybe he is onto something here.
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Response to Mr.Bill (Reply #132)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:00 PM

149. Okay. A stop-gap start, but 4 those NOT mentally ill, or the rest of the nation, it's not a solution

 

It will look bad less. But it will still look bad. Because whether it's CA or any other state, it just IS.
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Response to ancianita (Reply #149)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:02 PM

151. I just like that he's trying something new.

 

That's what we pay politicians to do, IMO.
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Response to Mr.Bill (Reply #151)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:07 PM

157. I do, too. It's a good start, since it allows for ALL homeless to be MADE mentally ill by homelessne

 

ss. So yeah, it's a real foot in the door strategy. IF that's the governor's strategy.

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Joe Biden

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Response to HarlanPepper (Reply #48)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:45 PM

133. Ah yes, the halcyon days of the 1930s

 

For all the good that FDR did—though it was highly incomplete: Social Security excluded agricultural and domestic workers, and as a consequence left out huge swaths of African Americans and women. A full 50% of American workers were excluded—it was certainly no paradise. Let's not forget:

Federal laws that created institutional redlining:

In 1933, faced with a housing shortage, the federal government began a program explicitly designed to increase — and segregate — America's housing stock. Author Richard Rothstein says the housing programs begun under the New Deal were tantamount to a "state-sponsored system of segregation."

The government's efforts were "primarily designed to provide housing to white, middle-class, lower-middle-class families," he says. African-Americans and other people of color were left out of the new suburban communities — and pushed instead into urban housing projects.

Rothstein's new book, The Color of Law, examines the local, state and federal housing policies that mandated segregation. He notes that the Federal Housing Administration, which was established in 1934, furthered the segregation efforts by refusing to insure mortgages in and near African-American neighborhoods — a policy known as "redlining." At the same time, the FHA was subsidizing builders who were mass-producing entire subdivisions for whites — with the requirement that none of the homes be sold to African-Americans.

https://www.npr.org/2017/05/03/526655831/a-forgotten-history-of-how-the-u-s-government-segregated-america


The Internment of 120,000 Japanese Americans. Need we say more on that subject?

Look, appeals to a return to the glory days of FDR are not too far removed from "Make America Great Again." Drop it. Each era must face its own conditions and look to correcting its inevitable errors, and try to improve the future. The past was never perfect, and the future won't be either. It's a continuing, never-ending process of experimentation. Revolutions have never worked out well.
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Response to frazzled (Reply #133)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:48 PM

136. Someone brought up an interesting point about the potential for cosplay at the convention.

 

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:03 PM

49. He does not have the temprament, experience or people skills that FDR had

 

to get those programs into existence.

He also doesn't have a depression to unite the size of the masses of unemployed people behind enlarging government programs for employment.

He also didn't call his policies "socialism," democratic or otherwise.

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Joe Biden

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #49)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:47 PM

134. true this

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to ehrnst (Reply #49)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 09:46 PM

277. +1 million

 

Things are not nearly as bad as they were in the Depression. It was the Depression that motivated people to want a safety net. FDR could not get more today either.
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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:10 PM

67. Absolutely agree.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:10 PM

69. my view, politics these days are more about cults of personality

 

or, "my way or the highway"
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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:12 PM

73. Let's also remember . . .

 


In 1944 FDR & 85% of Americans wanted national healthcare but GOP, Dixiecrats, & corporate execs blocked it.

Also . . .

In 1933 FDR said “no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages has any right to continue in this country”.

So yes . . . Sanders is running on FDR style reforms and it's about damn time!
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Response to Nanjeanne (Reply #73)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:27 PM

106. Will there be FDR cosplay?

 

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Joe Biden

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:20 PM

89. Absolutely

 

right! People need to get a grip. I'm for Elizabeth and truly believe she is the best candidate to defeat trump and heal our country, but this Bernie bashing bullshit has got to stop.
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Response to Ingersollman (Reply #89)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:48 PM

135. I wish

 

It would stop too. I click on a post hoping to see a balanced honest discussion and I find soon and gloom , reactionary fear and hostility to Bernie. I like Bernie for his ideas, and he gives me hope that things will get better for the vulnerable people in this country.
There are many people being financially abused.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to I_UndergroundPanther (Reply #135)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:00 PM

147. thank you for this

 

I feel the same way
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Response to I_UndergroundPanther (Reply #135)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:35 PM

181. I'm with you - I see his candidacy as a way forward and optimism - n/t

 

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:22 PM

96. Thank you Professor.

 

He's The Real Deal.

Hope Elizabeth, given how things have played out at this point, will back off and train her fire only on Trump and Bloomberg. She could have so much economic and policy power in a Sander's administration. We could have both of them in a Sander's win.

Thank God Bernie is pulling the center to the left.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:23 PM

97. Huh? You do realize that he can't beat Trump, don't you?

 

Many voters will not support him and tragically, may stay home or skip the check-mark next to his name, ensuring 4 more years of misery. He's an alienator, not inclined to pull together we true Democrats. Instead, as a divider, he'll kill our chances to upend the Trump years and put a stop to his rage-filled presidency.

Just watch. If Biden, Bloomberg or another candidate wins the primary season and goes on to challenge Trump in the general, old Bernie will not ask his followers to vote for that real Democrat, working against our goal to eliminate the worst president of our time. I have zero doubts he'll lift a finger to get Trumpy out of office.....unless its him.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to machoneman (Reply #97)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:51 PM

140. you are speaking

 

truth to cult power. Thank you.
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Response to machoneman (Reply #97)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:01 PM

150. I'll try to refrain from using a term like

 

Nostradumbass, but nothing you are predicting here bears any resemblance to Sanders behavior in the past.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to machoneman (Reply #97)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 05:02 PM

236. Amen!!

 

Exactly what machoneman said!!!
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Response to machoneman (Reply #97)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 09:43 PM

275. Yes, the "panic" may be that his loss will cause bigger fallout this time

 

and even bigger disadvantage to the nominee than Hillary had.

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primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:25 PM

104. Agree!

 

He's not my first choice but I've been warming up to his chances as many tear at him.
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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:29 PM

110. Same here.

 

You'd think that people would want a better life,
not just the same ol same ol.
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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:29 PM

111. For me it's not policy

 

It's his age and health. he will be 79 on election day. you can tell me I'm an Ageist, but that's a decade older than HRC was in 2016. A lot of people are already dead at that age, not taking on the worst job in the world.

Further, I have entirely lost faith in the American Voter, and I believe they only react to shiny objects.

That is why I am filled with dread.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:35 PM

123. I have no problem with Bernie's positions. It's his persona and history;

 

his negative remarks against Democrats, his history of making positive comments about communist and marxist leaders, his claiming to be a Democratic Socialist, his yelling, wild eyed, arms flailing. finger pointing speeches, his divisiveness, his offensive and argumentative spokespeople (e.g.: Nina Turner), the Bernie Bros, whether he has any control over them or not, they are a result of his rhetoric.

These, as well as his more liberal positions, are all turn offs to the middle of the road independents and conservatives we need to vote for a Democratic president this year. So while he may be polling ahead of Trump on a National basis, as we found in the 2016 election, total popular vote does not translate into a win. He has to win the purple states' electoral votes. Not sure he will be able to do that for all the reasons I stated above. Also the "young" vote cannot be counted on either. In 2016 we thought we had the young vote because of the turnout at rallies, but then they didn't show up to vote.

Joe Biden while not the most dynamic candidate, is a safe vote for those Independents and Republicans that want to see Trump out of office. He is a known quantity, a uniter not a divider. We need him to bring stability back to our Democratic Republic and right the "Ship of State". If he brings along a dynamic VP with Presidential potential I believe we would have the win and a big win at that.

I frankly would have preferred Warren or Klobuchar, but have resigned myself to the fact America is not yet ready for a female president.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Fla Dem (Reply #123)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:52 PM

141. quotes please

 

Please quote and give links to source. Your post is very short on fact and very long on hyperbole.
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Undecided

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Response to azureblue (Reply #141)


Response to azureblue (Reply #141)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 02:23 PM

215. nonsense! the post is 100% OPINION, requiring NO links or quotes.

 

what gave you the silly idea we could only quote other people's opinion?
You are free to disagree with the poster (employing your own links and quotes if you choose) .. but please stop with the silly tactics.
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Response to Fla Dem (Reply #123)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:53 PM

143. speaking truth

 

to cult power
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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:36 PM

124. K & R

 

I voted for Bernie in my state's primary in 2016. Even though he's not my pick this time, I still wear my Bernie 2016 hoodie and use my Bernie mug and would be just fine voting for him in the general.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:40 PM

128. I am a moderate and have little sympathy for people

 

who have kind words for left or right-wing authoritarian regimes.
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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:41 PM

130. Don't be so naive....

 

Sanders is a self-labelled socialist with a record that, among many other "negatives," includes overt praise for Fidel Castro and a honeymoon in Moscow. Republicans will tar and feather him with that history for months. Moreover, the combination of his snarky staff and his obnoxious "Bernie-bro" followers have turned off a lot of democrats and independents who might actually agree with many of his policies. The fact that he wants to force people off private medical insurance they might prefer to retain doesn't help either.

He'll be a disaster for down-ballot candidates in many states/races we'll need to win in order to take back the senate. Moreover, I doubt he'll even beat Trump after the repub lie-machine has chewed on his record for 5 months.

The Democratic party has/had no business allowing a non-democrat to run in their primaries. And another Trump term will likely finish the United States as we know it.

Democratic party leaders have met the enemy and he is them. Crap.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to capechacon (Reply #130)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:55 PM

144. a lot of this post are lies that have already been disproven

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #144)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 02:07 PM

207. Oh really?? You need to get YOUR facts straight "Professor"....

 

What part's a "..disproven lie"? Where I pointed out that Sanders is a self-proclaimed socialist?? Where I mentioned that he is on record praising Fidel Castro? Where I mentioned he spent 10 days in "Moscow" (actually Yaroslavl, Soviet Union) in 1988 with his wife and which he himself called a "honeymoon" trip (AND criticized the US while he was there). Where I mentioned that many would be forced off their preferred private medical insurance if Sander's proposed "medicare for all" was enacted? Source it all out for yourself...NONE of this is inaccurate and stop proclaiming it to be.

I suppose you could argue with my assertion that his senior staff is remarkably snarky and many "Bernie Bros" come across as nasty and aggressive. Maybe your friends/acquaintances are as plainly obnoxious as are his staff and many supporters....I tend to avoid those kind of personalities.

Very, very clearly the repubs and their smear machine would LOVE to face Sanders in the November general election and will harp on this stuff for months. If you can't see all this for yourself you're living in some sort of political fantasyland. Or simply trying to mislead others.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to capechacon (Reply #207)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 08:56 AM

323. you're right - I was going to say that he didn't honeymoon in Moscow

 

but it turned out Sanders used the term himself.

Too bad for you that voters (and even Republican voters) won't give a shite about any of that stuff if they can be rid of having the healthcare insurance sword of damacles hanging over their heads year after year after year.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to capechacon (Reply #130)

Tue Feb 25, 2020, 07:23 AM

304. Its a slow moving trainwreck

 

Its not going to end well, for America.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:50 PM

137. Trolls and FUD

 

The Russians and the GOP are freaking out and are all stops out to bring Sanders down. Some of the stuff they try to seminar him with is so far reaching as to be comical. Like that "Mansion" Sanders own. AKA cabin in the woods.. Jeez these peopel are pathetic
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Response to azureblue (Reply #137)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:58 PM

146. "Freaking out" ??....you have to be kidding...

 

With all due respect, your political acumen has to be in orbit around some distant planet.

Republicans, Trump and the Russians want nothing more than to run against a self-proclaimed socialist and "commie sympathizer." They'll beat him like a drum and they know it.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:50 PM

138. Trump is finished.

 

He will be doing the same whining and firings this summer. He's got nothing. There will be excitement for change. I'm excited about our primary. Look at all the people having their say and opinions heard.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:51 PM

139. A very sincere thank you

 

Professor Plum. I appreciate you post. All true. All needed to be said.
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Undecided

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:57 PM

145. No, no, no, and no

 

Don't believe the myth that has grown up around Sanders. His support of the NRA for example. His ideas are not FDR style. Stop comparing Sanders' socialism to the New Deal, they are different in quantity, quality, and scope. Who isn't against corporate bribes? Ok, there's Trump. He doesn't poll better, he polls worse. Every candidate brings young and independents to the polls. Every one. Some more than others.
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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:02 PM

152. To me too. I agree wholeheartedly...

 

and together, Warren's and Sanders' percentages trounce Trump. Perhaps people support progressive ideas?
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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:05 PM

154. The OP asks what is wrong with

 

everyone here in the reaction to Sanders.

I cannot speak for others, although I have seen posts that share my concerns. The concern about Sanders is that he has chosen a losing word to run on in US politics and we need badly to win this election.

FDR ran during a severe Depression. So many people were affected by it, rich and poor, that Karl Marx's corpse could have won against a Republican then. The economic situation today is not nearly the same.

Hardly anyone alive today existed during the FDR years. People do not know what his programs were. For several decades, Republicans have worked to undo FDR's legacy. Generations of Americans have grown up being taught the evils of socialism and that FDR was a socialist. The Cold War equated socialism and communism. MLK was branded a commie for his civil rights movement.

Since 1980, Republicans have controlled the message that deregulation is equal to free markets and democracy. I know that's a lie, and so do other DUers. But the general public does NOT know that.

I do not personally oppose MFA or free tuition. They are successful in Europe in a mixed economy based on capitalism combined with social programs.

But a crucial election year IS NOT the time to try selling the general public on democratic socialism when the majority of voters outside of the bubble of progessive Dems fear and do not understand the term. In the general election, the word socialism is a loser.

So I wonder if Sanders supporters understand the difference between the primaries and the general. In the general, they will not even carry all Dems. I know well-educated Dems with good jobs and incomes who resent the idea of MFA and free tuition. They see it as draining money from them to support less successful people. Selfish? Sure. But as long as they are not economically hurt by Trump and are not ethnic minorities, they will choose Trump over Sanders.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:05 PM

155. we old-time Democrats are out of touch

 

My 30-something son is a Bernie supporter and even before Nevada, he told me that there'll be an unsung swell of supporters who will come out to vote for him. After Nevada, I realized my son is right. Bernie really does have support across all races and demographics, except for those of us who are over 65.

Remember how Michael Moore predicted Trump's victory? The same thing is happening, but on the left.

I'm ready to admit that Bernie really does have the votes to beat Trump.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to mainer (Reply #155)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:22 PM

175. +1,000

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:13 PM

163. I'm also perplexed by what's going on

 

I’m with you on this one.

The problem seems the socialist label and that so many seem to desire a conservative, stay-the-course centrist Democrat like Joe Biden, Pete Buttigieg, or Amy Klobuchar.

I almost feel like I’m watching a replay of WWII and the British and French generals complacently sitting behind the fortifications of the Maginot line. The fortifications the German armies just went around.

Our political pundits and conservative Democrats are fighting the last war.

The electorate wants big systemic change. In fact, I don’t think they will accept anything less. So, the candidates listed above will not cut it and that’s why they’re losing so badly.

Who you want to take Trump on is not your choice, the choice of the Democratic establishment, or James Carville. The voters are speaking.

I’m for Warren. But I’ll vote for anyone with a D by their name. But I think it is critical that we nominate a candidate that will fight this war.

Whether you like it or not we are at war. Trump will not leave office peacefully. We have to win first to start the process of expelling him and his radical coterie.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:13 PM

164. You are correct of course & I consider Warren as running on FDR style progressive reforms also nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:18 PM

170. Thank you for posting that. I'm beginning to think most anti Bernie posters are...

 

... simply being unhelpful.

Or at worst suspect.

Right now, only one god damned thing should matter:

Excising the Orange Malignancy from our Republic !!!

You're either part of the solution,
or part of the problem.

Peace.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to Pluvious (Reply #170)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 05:15 PM

237. Suspect? Unhelpful?

 

Bernie is not going to defeat trump. Period. Call it whatever you want but bs isn’t the solution to excising the orange malignancy.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:19 PM

171. I very much agree with you

 

While I prefer Sen Warren, Bernie has a platform that works for the people and not just the 1%. It seems a platform out of the Democratic party of old.

If he is the nominee I will gladly vote for him.

Contrast this with Bloomie, the Democratic great hope of Wall Street billionaires everywhere. Bleh.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:21 PM

173. Not to me...

 

Every point you raise is 100% correct and spot-on, except for the last one.

But none of that will matter. It did not matter for Hillary and it sure as hell will not matter for Bernie Sanders in the GE if he's the nominee. The Russians, The GOP and Trump (with the help of the media) will eviscerate Sanders and portray the election of Socialism vs Democracy/Capitalism, and they will win because the facts will not matter.

I've been a Bernie fan for a long time due to my support of his policies, but it's clear to me now he will get slaughtered in the GE, and so will we.

There is nothing wrong with those of us that are concerned about the prospect of Bernie being the nominee in the GE.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:23 PM

176. You must not have read a single one of my posts

 

Feel free to search for them.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:31 PM

179. Allow people to come at their own pace.

 

This primary isn't over yet but assuming Sanders comes out on top then that's when we can expect the party to form like Voltron. Until then people have the right to feel the way they do about things and it's the job of the nominee and his/her campaign to make the case to the American people and drive out this base to the pols in November. Hopefully they run a tough as nails campaign and take no prisoners. No more weak democrats please.

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Undecided

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:35 PM

182. Being in favor of ideas is only one part of the equation

 

There’s much more to effective leadership, such as working well with other colleagues to actually pass legislation. Being fractious, in and of itself, is counterproductive.
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Response to dlk (Reply #182)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:42 PM

187. That is a valid criticism

 

And one that I agree is a concern
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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:40 PM

185. Because "socialism" is a general-election vulnerability much worse than any other candidate has.

 

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Undecided

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Response to paulkienitz (Reply #185)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:44 PM

190. yes, because no other Democratic candidate before now has ever been called (or will ever be called)

 

a socialist.





This is sarcasm, by the way
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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #190)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:45 PM

192. The others could all deny it.

 

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:43 PM

188. The Reds have labled FDR programs as "socialism" for almost a century

 

You can not separate Bernie from this mistaken notion.
As much as we agree with and love Bernie the fact remains, he has the highest negatives in the race to save our Nation from tyranny.'
We are stuck between a rock and a hard place; hold on to our values and lose or swallow our pride and save the planet.
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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:45 PM

191. Sanders is just calling for an expansion of successful existing programs: minimum wage,

 


Medicare, EPA, unions, graduated income tax.

Nothing new, just more.
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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:48 PM

193. We are going to lose the general with Sanders ...and Trump get four more years...any of us

 

would be delighted if Sanders could beat Trump, but he won't.
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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:48 PM

194. I understand why people are attracted to his proposals.

 

I agree with him on most things. I would love to have a cradle-to-grave safety net and believe that the U.S. should be able to provide this.

I diverge with him when it comes to canceling college debt, but only by a matter of degree. If debt is canceled, it should not be an unlimited amount. I would think it fair to cancel out debt equal to in-state tuition at a public university since we have no good reason to subsidize people who go to expensive private colleges.
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Response to Politicub (Reply #194)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:51 PM

196. I don't give to fucks (excuse me but I want to make a point) about policy this year...it is all

 

about beating Trump. And I look at the states (GOP in charge of the most state governments), at the house (won by moderates in 18) and the Senate (so tilted to the GOP) and I know we will lose with Sanders. This is the only reason I don't support him. I would support my cat or my dog if they could beat Trump, but alas like Bernie they can't.
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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #196)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:56 PM

201. But you are not everyone. And neither am I. But policy matters to me.

 

Before I watched the first debate, I was out to dinner with some friends. The first thing we talked about was that we were interested in the policy proposals candidates would be making. The second thing was who could hold their own in a debate setting.
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Response to Politicub (Reply #201)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 02:46 PM

223. What will policy mean if Trump wins four more years?

 

The answer is less than nothing.
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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:53 PM

199. Venting is necessary and painful

 

Winning elections goes beyond appealing to just one group of people.

Exposing his flaws is necessary if we want to take out Trump.
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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:57 PM

202. Honestly, I don't think he's qualified to run the country and lead the free world. He has

 

accomplished founding and leading a movement. That is not the same as coalition building across the nation. He lacks any FP cred or gravitas and his record is sparse in achieving on issues he espouses.

Yes. We fear he would win the nomination only to lose to Trump.
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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:57 PM

203. The dread is coming from the corporatists who despise his entire agenda.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 02:00 PM

204. Dread and alarm are two entirely different things.

 

I
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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 02:06 PM

206. It's Trump dread.

 

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 02:07 PM

208. Bernie is exactly what this country needs to counter 40 years of Fascist leaning policies that are

 

destroying this country . I remember life before Reagan . It was good . I never heard of homeless people then .
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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 02:08 PM

209. Moderates really believe he can't win

 

We went to a wine tasting event yesterday with my moderate friend.

We tried not to talk politics but it kept coming up and she was freaked thinking we are stuck with Trump again.

I tried to calm her down but emotions are high.
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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 02:15 PM

211. Yea, lots of displaced bitterness. It is sad to see anyone prefer a guy who

 

pushed stop and frisk and has how many NDA's?
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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 02:21 PM

212. It has nothing to do with Bernie's policies....

 

We are just scared to death that Trump will be able to slander him so badly that he won't be able to win when we absolutely NEED a win.
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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 02:21 PM

213. Those of us who have been verbally and nearly physically attacked by his supporters

 

are certainly harder to convince that his is a campaign worth endorsing. To me, the biggest problem they will have is trying to convince all the left-leaning voters that he is an inclusive candidate. To a lesser extent, it is somewhat distressing to see that type of behavior "winning". Nobody wants to see a bully win, except other bullies.

I know I will eventually support whoever is running against IMPOTUS, but these are just some of the reason it is so hard, and to the OP's point, why there is dread.
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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 02:24 PM

216. Same, it's absolutely bonkers

 

He's consistently polled the best against Trump head to head for a while... and people are saying that he's going to lose in a landslide?? Stop freaking out people. It's irrational.
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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 02:26 PM

217. i worry about people not seeing the divisiveness of his campaign...

 

..why doesnt it bother some folks?
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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 02:27 PM

218. He dared to run in 2016 against Hillary. n/t

 

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Response to ms liberty (Reply #218)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 05:32 PM

239. and is one reason we have Trump today n/t

 

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Undecided

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 02:37 PM

220. Bernie can't explain how to pay for his signature issues

 

He bombed 60 Minutes and couldn’t explain how much it will cost and how to pay for his signature issues he has campaigned on for four years. This is a $60 TRILLION price tag we are talking about. This means disaster in the General Election. This is an absolute JOKE!


https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/24/politics/bernie-sanders-donald-trump-2020/index.html
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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 02:40 PM

221. Thank you!

 

Great post!
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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 02:41 PM

222. Translation: "I can't understand why everyone doesn't think the way I do..."

 

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 03:26 PM

230. Have you ever lived somewhere like OK. Massive fear, hatred of even word 'socialism'

 

Sure they don't understand the concept, the history.

That's irrelevant.

All GOP has to do is play on the fear!

Evangelical preachers, televangelists are pushing this fear strongly

Fear of socialism has been ingrained in the US people since at least 1945.

Not something easily fought by group of young people who just want 'to set things straight'
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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 03:27 PM

231. Prof. I'm sorry but we live in a "branding" era.

 

And they’ve got him with the SOCIALISM brand. It will be very difficult to turn people around from that one thing.

His campaign would constantly being battling a head wind.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287565854
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Undecided

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 04:39 PM

235. What he should say is "let's go back to the way things were in the

 

Republican 1950s United States. Unions, high taxes on the wealthy, etc" that is what all democrats should talk about.
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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 06:02 PM

243. This forum honestly doesn't feel like a Democratic forum to me

 

It feels like a Conservative forum and people are just more in favor of backing the centrists/moderates they would tolerate.

No moderate has won the General Election this century, but 95% of this forum thinks we should try that approach again.
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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 06:11 PM

244. We have a candidate who is generating enthusiasm

 

I have never been a huge fan, but he is on fire and we should not take the voters who have cast their votes and invested their time and money for granted. It is a rare thing in politics to have a candidate who is motivating so many. I welcome this enthusiasm and the skeptics need to catch up to Sanders and the modern world where USSR is not a place and red represents the GOP.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to loyalsister (Reply #244)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 07:24 PM

256. THIS.

 

The fear mongering and negative opinions masquerading as fact are outrageous.

It's perfectly legal for a moderate candidate to build a stronger campaign than Sanders and win the nomination. Otherwise, Sanders will win, and everyone howling at the moon in this thread will hopefully join the rest of us in winning the GE, rather than sitting on the sidelines just to prove themselves right.
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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 06:12 PM

245. House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy will be the next speaker come 2021

 

Kevin McCarthy also wants sanders to be the nominee




THE TUMULTUOUS POLITICAL CLIMATE has given fresh hope to REPUBLICANS, who were privately skeptical of TRUMP’S prediction that House Minority Leader KEVIN MCCARTHY will be the next speaker come 2021. Internal polling commissioned by the NATIONAL REPUBLICAN CONGRESSIONAL COMMITTEE showed that voters in districts targeted by both parties are skeptical of SANDERS -- his approval rating is 42%, and disapproval stands at 53% -- which they believe will help boost their candidates for the House. In these districts, voters prefer TRUMP, 48% to 43%. If SANDERS is atop the ticket, Republicans believe, they can credibly label every Democrat a socialist without fear of overreach.
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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 06:26 PM

246. FDR ran in the depths of the great depression,record high unemployment.

 

Breadlines and soup kitchens.
Shuttered factories and dust bowl farms.

Our nominee will (probably) be running 'against' a strong economy and record low unemployment.
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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 06:37 PM

247. That's because your OP displays a rather plum mangling of facts

 


1) FDR never campaigned on radical economic restructuring. He advocated a number of short term programs to provide immediate relief. This was pre Keynes and FDR still advocated for a balanced budget. His signature program Social Security was not initially introduced and represented a progressive but not radical move.

I consider FDR the greatest American President for his overall leadership but his greatest economic legacy was re establishing capitalism with massive war expenditures.

Every repeat every Democrat that has advocated for greater middle class taxes (Mondale) or massive economic wealth redistribution (McGovern) resulted in catastrophic landslides.

Let me repeat this: whenever Democrats have advocated Sanders style campaigns we have netted exactly one state (Minnesota/Massachusetts).

The American people can be talked into higher taxes during governance (a la Obama) but they will reject an mass during a campaign.

HW Bush experienced the greatest fall from the highest approval to losing the election because of middle class taxes (read my lips)

I have been involved in 4 campaigns IL liberal Washington State to introduce a small income tax to increase funds for education and relieve sales tax.

Each time the voters rejected it by 40 points. Polling showed that even Democrats didn't support it.

The last attempt was run by Bill Gates Sr who funded an initiative to tax the top 1%. It failed by 30 points.

It is possible to run a campaign advocating a well defined program that will be supported by modest taxes but any campaign that centers on massive wealth redistribution is dead on arrival.

Sanders $ 55 Trillion give away will cost $ 10,000 per person per year, after you have raided the billionaires and taken all their money.

Warren's plan is very sensible and funded. It is extremely progressive. Sender's "plans" are wild and cannot be achieved.

I have lived in countries that tried idiotic populism here is what happens when they do get elected (and Sanders has no chance)

1) over promise

2) under deliver

3) spend beyond the county's means and leave the country with crippling debt for a generation.

Please do everyone a favor and do NOT link the greatest Democratic leader with the idiotic Sanders who he would have hated.

FDR is the consummate Democratic establishment leader and Sanders despises the Democratic establishment and has made it clear he is running against it.

Finally I am very close to many people in the Kelly campaign. Everyone feels that if the stars align right we could elect Kelly and have 2 Democratic Senators winning by 3-4%. With a Sanders nomination no one, repeat not a single informed political expert believes we would be competitive in AZ.

We go from being competitive in both a Senate seat and electoral college.

But what the he'll you got a lot of recs and that's what really counts. Unfortunately there are a lot of people who don't understand that real Democrats FDR/Kennedys/Cliinton/ Carter share nothing with this interloper who will reduplicate McGovern and Mondale fantastic election of one state each.
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Response to grantcart (Reply #247)

Thu Feb 27, 2020, 06:10 AM

338. +1, Sanders is Luke warm at best in seeing States vs Trump for last 3 months

 

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 06:40 PM

248. Gotta say ...

 

...I am also surprised. this guy is an original and what you see is what you get. Why is that so "scary?"
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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 07:11 PM

252. "I don't get that not everyone wants the policies that I do"

 

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 07:12 PM

254. First Mike Dukakis was ahead of Bush Senior by 17 points.

 

He is going to get crushed. Look what happened in the UK when Labour nominated a leftist.

It is the people who he surrounds himself with. They would rather lose with him at the helm then win beat Trump with someone else.

They want to burn down the party I have worked my whole for.
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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 07:16 PM

255. What's wrong

 

I'm scared of the self-destructiveness of the trump cult.
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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 08:28 PM

262. I'm thinking of just leaving because of it...

 

the mainstream doesn't get it. They may even hide this expression of truth...
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Response to jimlup (Reply #262)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 10:03 AM

327. I hear ya!!

 


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join The Revolution!!
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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 08:50 PM

264. I have been asking the same question, what the hell is wrong with everyone here on DU?

 

If Bernie Sanders is the successful nominee, I will vote for him in the general election. How could this even be a question? What is the alternative? DUer's know the answer - get busy electing someone not named orange dipshit! Have the previous several years not given you motivation?
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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 08:56 PM

265. Agree

 



Medicare and Medicaid were added in 1965 by the Social Security Act of 1965, part of President Lyndon B. Johnson's "Great Society" program.
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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 09:04 PM

266. I Blame Reagan

 

He did more than go along with axing the long standing Fairness Doctrine...he cut the top individual tax rate by approximately half. It has been historically low since.

What Bernie is proposing is not that radical historically. He will only lose if enough democrats refuse to vote for him, which shows they would rather make a point than bounce Trump. Who will do the least harm......by default it is Bernie.

Sanders is infinitely a better human being than Orange Mussolini. So let’s get real folks. I’m not crazy for so called moderate Democrats but you better believe I will vote for any of them.
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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 09:09 PM

267. The DREAD is fear of losing to Trump

 

Hard to predict, but nominating Sanders is a looking like a pretty big risk.

BTW, I voted for Bernie in the 2016 primary.
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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 09:33 PM

269. Because of the rest of the voters that are not DUer's

 

We know how easy they will be scared off by the "socialism" and saying anything good about Castro or the USSR.

But really just getting a few more votes in the first three states is not enough to panic.
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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 09:34 PM

270. Bernie and Trump are both populists

 

and both are aided by Putin
Populists are grievance candidates who try to buy elections with the promise of fabulous stuff that those awful elites are keeping from you. So Trump is a populist too.
Populist candidates are not a good choice to run a country. They might be good at revolution and good at blaming others, but they don' t govern well. Trump is an example.
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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 09:50 PM

278. Same as last time

 

Pure teamsmanship and othering.
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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 09:52 PM

280. Sanders is another George McGovern

 

He may have some good ideas and certainly is a man of principal...but America doesnt need more controversy.. we need someone who will not scare people or be painted as a socialist or communist.. unfair I know but no one ever said Trump played fair..
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Response to VladmireTrumpkins (Reply #280)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 08:30 AM

321. this analogy is so tired and so wrong in so many ways that it doesn't even warrant

 

a response. I think Sanders is another Harry Truman. What do you think about that? Working man from humble origins, fierce advocate for working people, made huge strides for racial justice (including integrating the military), and wasn't afraid to stick it to the GOP who deserved it.

The country is on the thin edge of turning fascist, and the lower classes are starved for money while a super rich elite make all of the decisions. Was THAT the case in 1972? Then shut up with this stupid analogy about McGovern.
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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 09:57 PM

282. Let's see how you feel in October. NT

 

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:15 PM

286. This board has sunk into madness

 

I would be proud to vote for Bernie should he win.

What the fuck is wrong with you all?

Bernie is as Liberal as the day is long.

This " he isn't a Democrat" is total Bullshit.
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Response to sellitman (Reply #286)

Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:24 PM

287. This!

 

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Undecided

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Response to sellitman (Reply #286)

Tue Feb 25, 2020, 01:03 AM

290. +1,000 This. I have alerted on posts that were clearly

 

Bernie bashing, and those posts were never removed. That could partly explain how things are out of synch with the general population. This kind of bias damages the value and credibility of DU, IMHO.

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Response to sellitman (Reply #286)


Response to sellitman (Reply #286)

Tue Feb 25, 2020, 09:33 PM

315. thank you for saying this

 

I thought I was losing my mind around here
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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Tue Feb 25, 2020, 01:00 AM

288. Thank you, some sanity is most welcome! nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Tue Feb 25, 2020, 01:02 AM

289. Awesome.

 

Thank you.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Tue Feb 25, 2020, 04:30 AM

299. FDR was elected 88 years ago and couldn't get a health care plan passed.

 

Since then we've made a lot of progress that Sanders prefers to ignore. Why ring the bell backwards?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Tue Feb 25, 2020, 04:37 AM

301. All signs and logic shows us he will lose us our down ticket. Yes. That is dreadful.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Tue Feb 25, 2020, 10:24 AM

306. It is a very different thing to be FOR something and being...

 

...competent to put in place.

Sanders does not have the reservoir of good will to accomplish anything.

He's an old man with limited experience of the execution of goals. He is basically a crank who is very good at criticizing other people from the perspective of having no accomplishments against which he might be measured.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to NNadir (Reply #306)

Tue Feb 25, 2020, 09:34 PM

316. sez you

 

don't worry about his reservoir of good will, it's enormous.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #316)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 12:38 AM

317. Among his acolytes, yes, there's some ineffective good will. Among people who can do things, no.

 

Basically, there's a lot of ego flying around in this country, none of it for good.

We see it in the MAGA crowd, and we see it on the opposite end of the political spectrum as well, the "I'M RIGHT," Bernie or Bust crowd.

The strong reaction here shows this emotional nature of the assertion among his acolytes that everyone has to agree that Bernie Sanders is a great guy, the best, and only he can save the country. It's just more MAGA.

It offends many of us. It certainly offends me.

Do we really need yet another Baby Boomer, another tired old fool who has not had an original thought since 1969 who just wants mindless uncritical praise, but has nothing to offer beyond that?

I'm a scientist. Among other things, a powerful concern for me is climate change. If Bernie Sanders gets into the White House - it won't happen but if he did - his intellectual inflexibility and dogmatic approach to the problem will make things worse, not better. This is not to say that there are not people who actually believe that he gives a shit about climate change, but frankly, they're incredibly ignorant.

Guess what? The embrace of 1970's ideology on so called "renewable energy" and hatred of nuclear energy has killed people and led to a planet where the concentration of the dangerous fossil fuel waste has reached 414 ppm. In February 1976 it was 333 ppm.

Guess what? Senator Sanders represents the only state in the Union where 100% of the electricity produced in this state was produced without burning fossil fuels. Guess what? Now it relies on dangerous fossil fuels. Bernie Sanders supported and advocated for that outcome.

What he says about addressing climate change hasn't worked, isn't working and won't work.

The Sanders crowd likes to pick out what people said 40 years ago and rant insanely on the subject. I feel differently. I think in a changing world, one has to change one's mind based on evidence. Elizabeth Warren has done that.

If you'd like to demonstrate one piece of evidence that Bernie Sanders has changed his mind on anything at all in his entire ideologically driven life, produce it now and let it stand up to critical examination.

Anyone who can show that this can be done, showing an instance where Bernie Sanders has changed his mind on anything in the last half a century of his life of continuous complaint without a single meaningful accomplishment, will have shown at least one instance wherein he is not Trump of the left.

Otherwise, he's running against Richard Nixon in 1972. Under these circumstances, our country, already badly wounded, will have no hope.

Got it?

No?

Why am I not surprised?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to NNadir (Reply #317)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 12:47 AM

318. Thank You for a well thought out post

 

I sincerely ap