Bernie stumbles

[backabby-blue]

He STILL doesn't have his taxes ready and he was not candid about the sexual harassment on his campaign.

Link to tweet

[EndGOPPropaganda]

1. Let's be positive, backabby-blue

Who is your candidate and what do you like about them?

[elleng]

2. THANK YOU, EndGOPP!

[backabby-blue]

3. Vetting is appropriate nt

[EndGOPPropaganda]

4. Who's your candidate and what do you like about them?

I like Warren because she has policy plans to take on wealth concentration and political corruption.

Please post positive messages as much as possible- try to avoid negativity about Democrats and their allies.

[backabby-blue]

5. I'm undecided

But If I were to vote today it would be Kamala Harris. She's brilliant and honest. The issues are about the same as all our candidates

[NJCher]

47. do tell

please tell us about Kamilla Harris's record with sending people to prison. Do you like that? Or maybe it doesn't matter to you since all those people in prison are invisible to you?

Are you aware that the U.S. has the highest incarceration rate of anyplace in the world? And did you know that, based on a per 100,000 imprisonment rate, that the lowest--yes, the lowest--U.S. state rate of imprisonment is astronomically higher than even that of some of the cruelest nations out there? The ones our current pResident likes to hobnob with? Did you know that?

Don't believe me? Here's a chart:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/uk/06/prisons/html/nn2page1.stm

How about reading this story to bring yourself up to speed?

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/09/reader-center/metropolitan-detention-center-cold-jail.html

Or check out the search term "incarceration nation" and you will find a book on it, plus others along the same line.

This is what Kamilla Harris supports. This is her record; it's all documented, should you have the guts to read about it.

[SergeStorms]

49. I don't believe her job description...

as Attorney General of California included sending anyone to jail.

"While varying from one jurisdiction to the next due to statutory and constitutional mandates, typical powers of the attorneys general include the authority to issue formal opinions to state agencies; act as public advocates in areas such as child support enforcement, consumer protections, antitrust and utility regulation; propose legislation; enforce federal and state environmental laws; represent the state and state agencies before the state and federal courts; handle criminal appeals and serious statewide criminal prosecutions; institute civil suits on behalf of the state; represent the public's interests in charitable trust and solicitations; and operate victim compensation programs."

https://www.naag.org/naag/about_naag/faq/what_does_an_attorney_general_do.php

Yes, before that she was a District Attorney and probably sent some people to jail. Believe it or not some people deserve to be in jail.

One link you provided is about a decrepit detention center in NYC. And somehow she's responsible for that? You may not like Ms. Harris, but she's not to blame for all the world's ills.

[NJCher]

52. there is a new model of district attorney

read up on the Philadelphia DA. Kamilla Harris is old-school. Even worse than being "old school" is the fact that she participated in a prison system that is a glory fest for the right wing. She should have a vision that is more humane, more imaginative, and more in keeping with rehabilitation. But to my knowledge, and please correct me if I'm wrong, I've not heard that.

Re the federal story, I posted it because it is an example of the complete and total disregard there is for prisoners. These people in that facility had not even seen the inside of a courtroom, yet here our government is--leaving them in cold conditions with no blankets, jackets, nothing. If you know of her speaking out against this atrocity, please post the story.

This type of thinking has to go.

Yes, some people need to be in prison but not in the vast amounts this country prescribes.

Oh and don't get me started on the astronomical cost of keeping people in prisons. Marijuana? Let 'em out. Mentally ill? No place for them in a prison. Have you read Malcolm Gladwell's article on how many people in prison are actually mentally ill? Read "Damaged in the Brain" (The New Yorker).

The U.S. is brutal. There is no other word for it and there is no place in our political system for people who don't realize how backwards this system is.

[SergeStorms]

56. I agree wholeheartedly...

that he U.S. prison system is completely broken. And yes, marijuana offenders, even sellers, should be released. We can thank Ronnie Rayguns for closing the mental health facilities and pawning them off on law enforcement. There used to be places for the mentally ill to get treatment, and it wasn't in prison. We can thank republicans for turning them out on the streets.

Kamala Harris's contribution to the problem was extremely minimal, at the worst. Coming from a law enforcement background would make her acutely aware of the problems with both our justice and penal systems. Here's some information from Mother Jones about her background in the justice system.

<snip>
"At the time, California led the nation in tough-on-crime legislation like three-strikes laws. As a prosecutor in communities like Oakland and Richmond in the early ’90s, Harris had had a front-row seat to the carnage the crack cocaine epidemic wrought on African American communities. “She [was] very clear that the war on drugs [was] an abject failure,” says Tim Silard, an advocate for civil rights and income equality whom Harris tapped to help run Back on Track. As Harris would later write of her time in the DA’s office, some 60 percent of the new felony cases annually were nonviolent drug crimes. “Many of the perpetrators are repeat offenders who commit a crime days after being released from jail or prison for the previous crime,” she explains in Smart on Crime.
“You can bring your advocacy into the office, but do you forever want to be on the stairs yelling and begging for people to support you, your cause? Why can’t you fix it from the inside?”

Harris saw this as both a vicious cycle and a drain on resources. “Each one involves an arrest, a booking, a prosecutor’s time, a judge’s time, often a public defender’s time, a stay in jail of short or long duration, and a probation officer’s time, for which taxpayers foot the bill,” she writes in her book. “These crimes carry all sorts of collateral and psychic costs as well—the social damage of a neighborhood from drug dealing or the cost of putting an offender’s children in foster care.”

So she set out to build a program for people who, if reached in time, were less likely to reoffend: first-time nonviolent drug offenders, specifically those aged 18 to 30. If these offenders pleaded guilty, they could join a 12- to 18-month program of individualized support, which included job training, more than 200 hours of community service, and a requirement to find steady employment or enroll in school. It leaned heavily on public-private partnerships to create job and support services. The DA’s office reserved the right to jail participants if they broke any of the rules—even missing appointments—or were charged with another crime. At the end, there was a graduation at which a judge, who typically volunteered his or her time, would expunge the felony charge from the participant’s record.
<snip>

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2018/01/the-secret-to-understanding-kamala-harris/

I believe Ms. Harris would be an active reformer of the U.S system that is so completely out of whack. As a woman District Attorney in San Francisco, and being a woman of color, she has a unique perspective on the problems inherent in the justice and penal systems. I trust her to reform both. Just my two cents.

[CrossingTheRubicon]

68. So much for being positive. And quite the deflection from the BS blunder.

The sexual harassment in his campaign is a serious problem that BS has dealt with poorly in my estimation.

[ehrnst]

73. .....

Any professor knows this fallacy.

https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/150/Red-Herring

[Eliot Rosewater]

102. What the GOD DAMN FUCK is this a 2nd thread where Kamala is being BASHED ?

Or is it the same one I responded in already, CANT KEEP TRACK of all the BASHING of Democrats.

[ehrnst]

103. Yeah, gonna see more I'm afraid. (nt)

[Bucky]

107. You see that "19%" behind her name at the top of the forum?

Of course she's gonna get bashed. That's how competition works.

We nominate the candidate who's best at taking the hits and punching back.

[Eliot Rosewater]

109. Really, that is how we do it, we BASH democratic candidates and say shit

that isnt even true sometimes just to toughen them up?

That is the GOP job, not ours.

By NOT TRUE I mean people are painting a picture of her that is NOT TRUE just like they did about something else I cant FUCKING MENTION

[Bucky]

111. I'm just sayin'

it's the internet. It'd be silly to expect this not to happen.

[Control-Z]

184. It's DU.

I expect a bit better.

[CentralMass]

128. Really ? On a thread titled Bernie stumbles. "Dont start nuthin, and there won't be nuthin"

[Eliot Rosewater]

131. What the FUCK does THAT mean, if a credible criticism of Bernie occurs we need to EXPECT

our Democrats to be BASHED?

So we better not point out stuff about Bernie OR ELSE!

I see

[Bryan]

174. You can dish it out, but you can't take it

If I brought up voting against the Brady Bill, or voting against the Amber Alert, or Sierra Blanca, or Burlington College, or "Man and Woman", you stalwart Sanders warriors would go screaming to the mods. The future of the nation is at stake, and everything is on the table.

[themaguffin]

88. Indeed.

[lapucelle]

79. Did Senator Harris vote for the 1994 Crime Bill?

Have a donut.

[namahage]

51. Kamala Harris.

It's hard enough to take your arguments seriously if you can't get names right.

Tell about "Kamilla" Harris's record with sending people to prison? You made the point, put up the numbers instead of putting up nationwide statistics.

Unless you're hinting that somehow she is responsible for the behavior of a whole nation, in which case, she SHOULD be President.

[NJCher]

54. urm

I'm an English professor and I cut a lot of leeway on sites like this with people who don't use the English language correctly. Not once have I ever impugned a person's argument over a spelling, which is what you have just done.

In fact, as professors, we are trained to look at the person's line of argument. Yes, spelling and grammar are important but they take a back seat to the thinking process. And how dare you challenge my sources? They are credible sources and I know what I am talking about. I have been an activist in the legal system for decades. I have formed nationwide organizations that help people with no access to a lawyer do their own pro se work. What have you done?

Your post indicates you do not understand my point, which I have detailed more in an additional post. This candidate is a part of a system that needs to go. I don't want anyone in office who does not understand how serious this problem is. Show me what she's said that proves otherwise--I'd be delighted to hear it.

[namahage]

55. I spent one line on spelling.

You, two paragraphs. I wonder who's obsessed with spelling?

But back to the point. I have not impugned your sources, only what you claim they say. Your argument is essentially that Kamala Harris's record is reflected by nationwide statistics, and I simply said that her record is not necessarily representative of the statistic you presented.

I am interested in what her incarceration record is, but your source does nothing to show that. And when challenged to put up more relevant statistics and data, you utilize the time-honored technique of "appeal to accomplishment."

[NJCher]

60. your response again indicates

you do not understand the larger point. She is a part of that system and has failed to distinguish herself, as has Larry Krasner. I won't belabor it because I'm through wasting my time on you. You don't get it now and you'll probably never get it.

Also, this is not content analysis, so the number of words devoted to the topic is irrelevant.

Appeal to accomplishment? Yes, it makes me more qualified than you to comment on this situation. When a person works with the system, one can gain insights that come no other way, such as reading articles on the internet. Furthermore, everything I have done is as a volunteer.

Your comment on "appeal to accomplishment" leads me to believe you've done nothing in the "real world" to solve this problem, so that's my take on your background. If I'm wrong, please let us know.

[Adrahil]

63. Hey My Wife's a Professor too!

And I have a Masters in Engineering

Let's all have a credentials waving contest.

Just sayin'.... in my experience, not many skilled academics wave their credentials around.

I wouldn't vote for your candidate in the primaries if he were the only man running.

He's a hypocrite.

He's tone deaf on issue of sex and race.

And he has no respect for me for or my party.

I don't agree with everything Harris on every position. But I also do not condemn her for pursuing her job as AG. Sometimes the responsibility of the job demands you do something you are not 100% behind.

I like almost all of what she has to say NOW, though. I can;t say that about Bernie.

[NJCher]

123. I only mentioned credentials because of the poster

thinking she had scored a coup over the spelling of Harris' first name. There are many English professors who post here; I am only one. One rarely sees them correcting spellings or usage, either. I think it's important posters know that it's the originality and quality of the thinking process that's important.

Of course, we like to see correct spelling and grammar. One should always use proper English if they are capable.

[lapucelle]

155. You have a grammar error in pronoun-antecedent agreement

in your sentence extolling the importance of using of proper English.

One should always use proper English if they are capable.

Have a donut.

[NJCher]

160. bring yourself up to date

It's been this way for some time--at least for those of us who care about gender neutral language.

Linguist Dennis Baron at the University of Illinois points to the evolution of the word “you” as another example: “Purists object that a plural pronoun like ‘they’ can’t be used as a singular. But they are wrong: ‘You’ began its life as plural (the singular second person was ‘thou’). Then ‘you’ began serving as singular as well. .?.?. Today we use ‘you’ to refer to one person — ‘Are you talkin’ to me?’ — without worrying about number. And for most people, ‘they’ works the same way.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/gender-neutral-pronouns-when-they-doesnt-identify-as-either-male-or-female/2014/10/27/41965f5e-5ac0-11e4-b812-38518ae74c67_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.2cad69c99b81

Poor thing.

[lapucelle]

161. What exactly "has been that way for some time"?

You made another grammar mistake in that post. The pronoun "it" has no antecedent.

There's a very simple way to edit out your first grammar mistake while preserving gender neutrality.

O̶n̶e̶ People should always use proper English if they are capable.

In colloquial English, it is acceptable and common to use the pronoun "they" as a singular pronoun. However, I know no English teacher or editor who would let your sentence stand as written, especially given the fact it that begins with the stilted and formal construction "one".

You are probably correct in saying that there are English professors here on DU. Some of them might even edit professionally as well.

[Cha]

190. AND.. BS is Way Too Divisive.

[EffieBlack]

74. Why not start your own anti-Kamala Harris thread instead of hijacking this totally unrelated topic?

[NJCher]

85. I'm not interested in her enough to do that

not to mention it's a waste of time to quibble with people. I am still doing volunteer work helping people who are wrongly accused and in prison. Right now I have a case where a person was denied his due process (14th Amendment). Was convicted, sent to prison, and even had an expensive lawyer. Didn't even know his rights were violated until I researched the case.

Through research, I will figure how to get this guy out of prison. I think that's a much more valuable use of my time than doing what you're suggesting.

Above all, I want people to know that I am an engaged advocate in the criminal justice system, have been for decades, have put my money and time where my mouth is, and in my estimation this woman has a serious deficiency. People need to recognize that, and I will not stop pointing that out.

[EffieBlack]

125. You're not interested in her enough to start your own thread

But you're determined to never stop pointing out what you think is her "serious deficiency" in thread after thread, i.e., hijack everyone else's efforts to discuss anything whenever he name is mentioned.

Gotcha.

[NJCher]

126. because I've already checked her out

and I'm done with her, unless, of course, she changes course. If she did, she might have a lot to bring to the table. We need people with real world experience in the system--including activists, families of the incarcerated, mental health experts, and addiction authorities.

Other people are not as interested in the justice issue as I am. That is why I will persist in highlighting her deficiencies on this issue. Hers and others as well.

Also "thread after thread?" This is the only thread I'm aware of. However, there will be thread after thread if the opportunity presents itself.

[EffieBlack]

127. Why not use your time on the board to tell people why they should support your candidate

instead of trashing one of the others?

People here are just as intelligent and informed as you are and aren't likely to be swayed by anyone obsessively lecturing them about why they should despise Kamala Harris as much as you seem to.

Of course, you're free to do as you please. But you're unlikely to get very far and will create unneeded disruptions, something I assume you don't wish to do.

[ehrnst]

130. You are very important!

And we are grateful that you spend your very valuable time here setting us straight!

[Eliot Rosewater]

100. Buckle up, you will see AGAIN like before MASSIVE amounts of BASHING of our candidates

Last edited Mon Mar 4, 2019, 05:46 PM - Edit history (1)

It will go on all day everyday

Yep, and you will see EXCUSES why BASHING them is OK...

[NJCher]

136. the candidate wasn't bashed

her stand on issues was bashed.
There's a difference.

[ehrnst]

67. "This site" is humbly grateful that you "cut us leeway."

Obviously no one here can hold a candle to your vast experience, education and intellect, not matter who is here. It's just a given. You've explained so clearly, that everyone on "a site like this" can comprehend it.

Anyone who "dares challenge your sources," let alone disagree with you at all is so very, very wrong, and just isn't being reasonable.

[BannonsLiver]

92. "I am an English professor."

Despite all evidence to the contrary.

[betsuni]

95. Your line of argument is that Harris is bad because she sends people to prison.

[dsc]

135. Getting someone's name right

especially a person of color's name, is more than simple spelling. I teach majority people of color and it matters a great deal to them that I pronounce their names correctly and spell them correctly when I am saying or writing them.

[George II]

117. There are about 15,000 prisoners in Riker's Island, wonder how many she sent there?

...just in case:

[dubyadiprecession]

77. She didn't want to send anyone to prison....

But, she felt like she owed it to them.

[backabby-blue]

6. I'm not OK with not releasing taxes. That is what we are here for is to debate candidates nt

[comradebillyboy]

7. Vetting is appropriate nt

[Me.]

16. Yes It Is

They went easy on his last time around. He needs to come clean on the sexual harassment in his organization.

[comradebillyboy]

33. Some people don't care for the scrutiny, but they need to be vetted.

[CentralMass]

129. If you google Senator Harris + sexual harrasment you might find a small issue as well

However this crap (going negative) is not benefitting anyone. It is our nature to defend whatever candidate we support when they are attacked.

[Cha]

143. All candidates are getting Vetted

this time around. No exceptions.

[George II]

44. About time we start vetting our candidates...ALL of them.

[Cha]

57. More Vetting questions for Sanders..

Link to tweet

[George II]

59. Yep. The Senate has 100 members, only one Senator voted against BOTH....

....the Magnitsky Act and Russia Sanctions. Plus, only one Senator "missed" the vote on halting the Deripaska sanctions.

Why, why, and why?

[Eliot Rosewater]

101. Not just WHY but WHY dont smart people, and I mean that sincerely why dont they

ask why?

I know smart people who I like and respect who simply dont want to hear about it. Wow

[CentralMass]

151. Your candidate has her own baggage in this area.

[CentralMass]

8. He said that he will in short order release 10 years of tax returns and that we will be dissapointed

in how boring they are.

[backabby-blue]

9. Yes. He said that through out the whole primary last year

He never released them.

[shanny]

30. last year?

[Control-Z]

145. You know the poster meant the last primary and presidential election.

Remember? 2016?

Why would you even try to feign confusion?

[shanny]

147. Lol

Pointing out that I wasn't the confused one. Thanks for the assistance.

[LovingA2andMI]

81. In 2016....

But your point is well supported as Bernie has still yet to release his taxes.... #Fact

[backabby-blue]

10. If they're so boring...

What is taking so long? He had 2 plus years to get them together

[CentralMass]

12. I believe we all find out the answer shortly. But the chronic attacks are sort becoming white noise

It help with relaxation.

[backabby-blue]

13. Attacks?

Or genuine question.

[CentralMass]

19. Yes. Like the post today about former Hillary campaign people

complaining that Sanders flew commercial while campaigning for Hillary. While ignoring the fact that he made about 40 stops with or for her in most cases going state to state from one day to the next. Across a 3 month period.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/12876484

Assertion about his fund raising were made today and so on.

[Cha]

21. "We shouldn't have to beg elected Officials to disclose their financial interests.."

Link to tweet

[CentralMass]

24. I agree with the tax issue and he just syated that he will release

10 years of returns. I think that he will.

[Cha]

25. Elizabeth has led the way.. BS should follow..

He's had all this time.. has he been "too busy"?..

Link to tweet

NO.. it was NOT "Out of Context".

[ehrnst]

94. Also Gillibrand has released 10 years, Booker released 15 years worth

in 2013, so we know he keeps them that long

Kamala released her taxes when she ran for Senate in 2016...

None of them complained or stalled.

[Cha]

97. BS is the only one.. and

yet he's pretending it's no big deal.

It wouldn't have been if he had just Released them. Instead he's drawing all these awkward questions about them.

ehrnst

[ehrnst]

98. When one gets irritated with reasonable questions

by citizens, it gives the impression that one is thin-skinned.

[Cha]

99. And, even though they

say.. it's no big deal.. it actually is.

[emulatorloo]

105. A President gets asked a lot of hard questions.

[scipan]

110. I tried to find Kamala Harris' tax returns and couldn't

I did find this article that says she only released 1 year, 2015, and was only viewable by journalists, with an appointment. If you have evidence she released 10 years worth to the public, I'd like to see it. After all, you believe it is extremely important.

https://www.latimes.com/politics/essential/la-pol-sac-essential-politics-updates-kamala-harris-and-her-husband-made-1476735863-htmlstory.html

[ehrnst]

118. Are you confusing me with someone else? I didn't say Kamala released 10 years of taxes.

If you have evidence I did, I'd like to see it.

You seem to find her taxes extremely important, more so than other candidates.

Are you confusing yourself with the now banned member I was responding to, perhaps? Because I haven't responded to you or called out any gaps in logic in your posts, but you act like I have.

[LakeArenal]

32. That will end the so called attacks then, won't it.

[Blue_true]

116. If he doesn't by the first debate, how will you feel about that? nt

[emulatorloo]

104. I think you're mixed up a bit. Campaign person complained because Sanders wanted private jets

instead of flying commercial.

You wrote “former Hillary campaign people complaining that Sanders flew commercial while campaigning for Hillary.”

That’s incorrect

Ex-Clinton staffers slam Sanders over private jet flights
The Vermont senator’s 2016 travel as a Clinton surrogate became ‘a running joke in the office.’
By DANIEL LIPPMAN 02/25/2019 05:02 AM EST

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/25/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-private-jet-flights-1182793

In his campaign launch video last week, Bernie Sanders singled out the fossil fuel industry for criticism, listing it among the special interests he planned to take on. But in the final months of the 2016 campaign, Sanders repeatedly requested and received the use of a carbon-spewing private jet for himself and his traveling staff when he served as a surrogate campaigner for Hillary Clinton.

In the two years following the presidential election, Sanders continued his frequent private jet travel, spending at least $342,000 on the flights.

Increased scrutiny of his travel practices, which are at odds with his positions on wealth inequality and climate change, are among the challenges Sanders will face as he makes his second White House run.

<snip>

The Clinton campaign, however, viewed the private jet flights as a needless extravagance and wanted the senator to mostly fly commercial.

The senator ended up flying private on three separate multi-day trips in the last two months of the campaign.

Sanders’ flights — usually on a Gulfstream plane — cost the Clinton-Kaine campaign at least $100,000 in total, according to three people familiar with the cost of the air travel.

“We would try to fight it as much as possible because of cost and availability of planes, but they would request [a jet] every time,” one of those sources said. “We would always try to push for commercial. ... At the campaign, you’re constantly trying to save like 25 cents.”

<more at link>

It’s Politico though, they like to stir up shit between Democrats.

[MrsCoffee]

15. Since it's being discussed as a part of the party rules for candidates, it's hard

to understand the characterization of asking why he still hasn't released his tax returns as an attack.

That seems ultra defensive.

[Cha]

20. As Elizabeth says.. "We shouldn't have to beg elected officials..

Link to tweet

[Hassin Bin Sober]

17. Releasing the returns won't quiet the usuals on the twittersphere

They’ll claim they need to see all his check stubs or some other such nonsense.

One clown was claiming his released 2014 return wasn’t legitimate because his top line wages didn’t match what is publicly know to be a Senator’s income. Forgetting that top line is reduced based on the W2 wages that have retirement contributions deducted.

It’s become “long form birth certificate” territory already.

But like you said. White noise.

[Cha]

22. "We shouldn't have to beg elected Officials to disclose their financial interests.."

Link to tweet

[emulatorloo]

108. I love Senator Warren. She said it perfectly.

[Cha]

113. She did!

[shanny]

29. nope, it won't

the hatred is viseral

[Cha]

35. BS brings it on himself..

Link to tweet

Bernie: ‘My Opponents’ Want Black, White, Gay, Latino or Women Candidates ‘Regardless of What They Stand For’

After the 2016 election, Sanders hit a similar theme when he told a crowd of supporters “It’s not good enough for somebody to say ‘hey I’m a Latina vote for me’ that is not good enough,” and went on to add “It is not good enough for somebody to say, ‘I’m a woman, vote for me.'”

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211722251

[emulatorloo]

106. Dunno, transparency is important. Hopefully he'll get them out soon as Booker,Harris, Warren

Etc have already done.

[Cha]

165. Just curious.. So Kamala and

Booker have released their tax returns? I hadn't seen that yet.

Mahalo, emulatorloo

[ehrnst]

89. Actually, it's more "in the territory of" asking POTUS to release tax returns.

[sheshe2]

27. shortly?

[Cha]

36. It's been "shortly" for Waaaaay Toooo Looong!

Link to tweet

[sheshe2]

38. That seems to be the short and the long of it Cha.

[Cha]

14. "We Shouldn't have to beg.." BS needs to follow Elizabeth's Lead..

Link to tweet

[lapucelle]

26. Plus ca change....

Chris Matthews: Let Me Finish: What's Bernie Sanders hiding?
June 2, 2016
Chris Matthews wants to know why Bernie Sanders hasn't released his tax returns. Sanders Campaign Manager Jeff Weaver insists his candidate will release them, but when?

https://www.msnbc.com/hardball/watch/let-me-finish-what-s-bernie-sanders-hiding-697988163836

[lapucelle]

31. ...plus c'est la meme chose.

" frameborder="0"

[Cha]

43. Oooooouuuuuu! It's been awhile..

Link to tweet

"Too busy"?

Thank You for that, lapucelle

[helpisontheway]

34. I hope so. I'm curious why he won't show up to Russian sanction votes.nt

[LovingA2andMI]

82. Things That Make One Go....

Umm, Ummm.......

[George II]

45. Shortly after Jane Sanders promised to release their 2015 returns....

....they released only two pages of their 2014 returns. And when confronted with push back, they added five more pages. But still not 2015, and here in 2019 - still not 2015.

[bearsfootball516]

61. Cool. Talk is cheap. Actually do it.

[LongtimeAZDem]

84. You don't get it; it has nothing to do with what's in them, it's about why he hasn't done it

As long as he stalls, it looks like he's hiding something. If he releases them, and they're nothing, the question is "why were you so disorganized that you couldn't do it sooner?"

He's not getting a free pass this time; he's under a microscope, and, given his response to the town-hall question about the campaign harassment allegations, she's already starting to crack.

[Cha]

148. If they're so "boring".. where are they?

[NurseJackie]

11. I'm not surprised at all.

[The Truth Is Here]

18. Bernie is releasing his taxes next month.

A few days won't kill ya, wouldn't it?

[Cha]

23. "We shouldn't have to beg elected Officials to disclose their financial interests.."

Link to tweet

[OnDoutside]

53. As long as it's the last 10 years worth of tax returns, then that's fine,

although for someone for whom this was an issue all during his 2016 campaign, it's looks either suspicious or a sign of ill preparedness to repeat the same issue this time. The last excuse of Jane not having t in me to do his tax returns, is up there with the dog ate my homework.

[Adrahil]

64. Let's see what he releases.

If he actually transparently releases his taxes, that will help (I wanna see 10 years). It' does not fix his other bullshit, though.

[shanny]

28. well, somebody is stumbling here...

your concern is noted.

[Cha]

42. the OP is correct..

Link to tweet

[sheshe2]

37. What goes unanswered in your OP.

Link to tweet

Embedded video

Tommy MMXIXtopher
✔
@tommyxtopher
Cooper asked him if he had known about the harassment, and what he'd do going forward, but Sanders gave a lengthy answer that ignored the first question. This was his only response to that question. pic.twitter.com/2L5A1ZMBQy

121
9:43 PM - Feb 25, 2019

He never answered the question.

[aikoaiko]

39. Meh. I don't see a stumble.

Carry on.

[underthematrix]

40. In my humble opinion, they're all niche candidates with the

exception of Vice President Biden. With that said, I hope my beloved VP does not run.

I'm African American and a hard core pragmatic Democrat and I will vote for our nominee no matter who it is.

Here's my take on what the election is about and who we need to win.

Link to tweet

[Cha]

149. Is that Beto, underthematrix?

Sorry, don't really recognize who it is?

[PatrickforO]

41. I like Bernie, and heavily supported him in 2016.

Many on here did.

He is a bit of a curmudgeon, but I'll say this for him: If enacted, his policies around wealth inequity and taxation, healthcare, climate change, publicly funded colleges and universities, and infrastructure would genuinely make my life, the lives of my children and definitely the lives of my grandchildren much better and more worth living, more rich with meaning, hope and confidence they they at least have some say about policies that affect them.

That said, you'll notice that I have Elizabeth Warren's picture on my signature line. I've always really liked Warren a lot. I am an economist, and she totally gets it. She 'sold me' on her candidacy by introducing the 'Accountable Capitalism Act' this last August.

I won't bore you with an account of it - you can see that in some of my other posts. Suffice it to say that if enacted, I genuinely believe it would solve many of the problems that come to us as a result of the less-restrained greed we see from Wall Street and publicly held corporations now.

BUT...I will say I like Cory Booker too. A lot. He's a dynamic man and I believe he would be a really strong candidate.

Kamala Harris and Amy Klobuchar are excellent as well. Klobuchar is a bit to center of me, but you know what? She'd be fine.

I'm not a big Gillibrand fan (Al Franken), or a big Biden fan (2005 bankruptcy laws and the Anita Hill hearings), but I'll sure support either of them if nominated.

Truth is I feel so much hope with this field of candidates. 2016 was a bloody primary that left a lot of people hurt and alienated. Somehow I am thinking that with the huge current bench-strength shown by the party with all these good, diverse candidates, that isn't going to happen this time around.

Funny...as an economist, I'm all about economic justice because that is where I live, it is my passion. But friends on this site have made me understand how utterly important social justice is concurrently.

So, please join me in forgiving Bernie for his stumble. He will lose support if he does not release his taxes timely - I believe he did release them late in 2016 as well, if I remember right. As to the sexual harassment, that needs to stop wherever it happens. Not to be an apologist for the guy (though I am going to be now), I think he's really left brained, and so focused on issues that he gets irritated about things like this. He didn't handle the BLM confrontations all that well in '16 either.

[NJCher]

48. just an fyi

I am a college teacher in Northern NJ and have had many adult students who were taxpayers in Newark. They are no fans of Cory Booker. You see, when you live around here you understand that it's all about Cory Booker and his plans to be the second coming of Obama. He really doesn't care much about his constituents, although on a one-to-one basis, I understand he performed some heroics.

[CrossingTheRubicon]

71. More positivity. LOL.

BS needs to deal with his mess.

[PatrickforO]

75. Thanks.

I appreciate the feedback. There is one other candidate I suspect is like that, and that person in one I've already mentioned I'm not a big fan of.

[BannonsLiver]

121. Well that does it for me on Booker.

Last edited Wed Feb 27, 2019, 02:00 PM - Edit history (1)

No way I can support him now that a few unnamed adult students in Newark believe he wants to be the second coming of Obama. What an awful thing that would be!1!

[C Moon]

46. I voted for Bernie in the primary, proudly for Hillary in the GE.

I sure hope Bernie releases his tax returns: it's starting to look uncomfortably dumb not too. He's had a few years to get it together, and he's still stalling. It makes me uneasy to put my trust in him for that reason.

"You know who does our tax returns? My wife does our tax returns. We’ve been a little bit busy lately. So we will get out as much information as we can. There ain’t going to be very much exciting in that. I get a salary from the United States Senate, you know, there’s not going to be anything new in it that people haven’t seen for the last many years, but we will get it out as soon as we can." - 2016

[Gothmog]

50. When will these tax returns be released?

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[Cha]

58. Yes, BS Stumbled Big Time.. don't

try to tell us it was "taken out of context".. when it was NOT.

[Gothmog]

137. I am glad that sanders will be vetted this cycle

sanders will be vetted this cycle and vetting is part of the process https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/01/28/why-bernie-sanders-has-an-uphill-climb-ahead/?utm_term=.1b4f90c2a717

Finally, what happens when the oppo dump on Sanders comes? We have no idea, because it never happened in 2016. Clinton was so terrified of alienating his supporters and seeing them vote for Jill Stein in the general election (or not vote at all) that she tiptoed around him for pretty much the entirety of the primary campaign. That doesn’t mean that he’ll be destroyed when stories about the more colorful aspects of his history start cropping up, but there’s just no way to know.

Which is what we could say about the Sanders candidacy as a whole: There’s no way to know how it’s going to go. But he’s got his work cut out for him.

See also https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/19/politics/bernie-sanders-2020-campaign-donald-trump/index.html?utm_source=twCNNp&utm_content=2019-02-20T14%3A52%3A07&utm_term=image&utm_medium=social%C2%A0

2. How will he withstand more scrutiny and more attacks?
One of the secrets to Sanders' success in 2016 was that no one -- most especially Clinton -- thought he had any chance of going anywhere in the race. Clinton largely ignored him for the better part of 2015, allowing some problematic parts of Sanders' record for Democrats -- most notably his voting record on guns -- to go unnoticed. (When the race began to tighten, Clinton gently prodded Sanders on guns and health care.) Sanders, too, largely flew under the radar of investigative reporters for major news outlets who were busy looking into Clinton, Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio and others seen as more viable candidates. (That reality clearly benefited Donald Trump in the early days of the campaign, as well.)

Sanders will get no pass -- from either the media or his fellow candidates -- this time around. He is among the frontrunners -- and will be treated as such. His wife's time as president of Burlington College could well come up. And his opponents will do a deep dive into his nearly 30 years of votes as a member of the House and Senate. This is all very normal stuff in a campaign. But not for Sanders.

The vetting has only started and I have seen some interesting oppo on sanders. Again, a nominee needs to be vetted and I am glad that sanders will be vetted this cycle

[Cha]

138. I just posted that very thing.. BS will be Vetted

this time.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=12911

Thanks for the links, Goth! Sunshine!

[MrsCoffee]

69. Well you got the first part right.

And a wild swing and a miss after that.

[bigtree]

65. "we don't have accountants at home," and "it's a mechanical issue"

Link to tweet

[ehrnst]

66. I don't have "accountants at home" either. They work from their offices.

But somehow my accountant gets my taxes done every year on time, and I'm not even a millionaire.

"Mechanical issues" - that's interesting...

[rusty fender]

87. Hahahaha

I couldn’t picture his mechanical excuse until you posted this drawing

Thank you

[ehrnst]

90. As a matter of fact, this candidate has:

Link to tweet

We shouldn’t have to beg elected officials to disclose their financial interests – that's why I've released my tax returns from the past 10 years. My plan to #EndCorruptionNow would force @realDonaldTrump & all federal candidates to release theirs too.

You're welcome.

[ehrnst]

93. Goalpost moved... Well, let's take that question, shall we?

Only Booker and Warren have ever considered a run for POTUS before. One would expect that when one has done that, one knows what's expected the next time around. Booker and Warren have released years of taxes with no hesitation or defensive reactions.

What other candidate has been promising this specific financial transparency for years, and still yet to do so?

What other candidate gets defensive when asked about their personal financial transparency?

As I have said - Bernie certainly has the money for an accountant, and certainly he understands the importance of financial transparency, as a candidate that makes that his brand.

"Mechanical issues" or "not living with an accountant" doesn't prevent me from submitting my taxes on time every April. I know that it's going to be due, and I get the records organized and to the accountant. If I took two years to do that,

I also keep my final tax documents for the recommended three years in case of an audit - however, if I needed copies going further back, I would contact my accountant - and I'm not in public office where my finances could be relevant in the case of possible conflict of interest. I think it's not unreasonable to expect the at least that same basic, responsible financial recordkeeping from someone who wants the job of the Executive of the United States of America - especially after the discussion that the current POTUS's lack of transparency has created in terms of his conflict of interest questions.

Don't you?

I hope that clarifies things for you.

But look - a quick Google shows the following:

Gillibrand has released her taxes going back to 2008 - https://www.gillibrand.senate.gov/tax-returns

Booker released 15 years tax returns before - so there's no reason to think he doesn't keep them on hand and ready to go: https://www.politico.com/story/2013/09/cory-booker-tax-returns-096388

Kamala Harris released her tax returns when running for Senate, when asked to do so - and has done so without stalling or getting defensive:

https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article108767562.html

And of course, Elizabeth Warren who walks the walk concerning her signature issue of financial transparency - 10 years of returns released:
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/23/us-sen-warren-posts-10-years-of-her-tax-returns-online.html

No "mechanical issues are preventing me from releasing taxes" or years of stating, "My spouse does them and he/she's been busy."

They just produced the documents without any excuses. That was awesome!

[scipan]

112. Kamala Harris only released her 2015 tax return

and only to journalists, by appointment. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but your link validates my statement and your vagueness regarding her indicates I'm right.

https://www.latimes.com/politics/essential/la-pol-sac-essential-politics-updates-kamala-harris-and-her-husband-made-1476735863-htmlstory.html

[ehrnst]

119. Which statement of mine was vague?

Again, I think you seem to be mistaking me for someone else - someone who said that Kamala released 10 years of taxes.

Or someone that was replying to you, while I was actually replying to a now banned member.

Now, please go try to convince them that your dislike of Kamala is somehow validated by their statements.

[CrossingTheRubicon]

72. If I were a presidential candidate I would not have a person who was

under investigation by the FBI for bank fraud doing my taxes.

Just saying.

[SWBTATTReg]

78. Just an independent observation here...releasing tax returns isn't all that hyped up as it seems ...

to be ... what if you don't dispose of any short term and/or long term capital gains items during this period of time? Then your 10 years of tax returns won't show anything, other than perhaps some residual income or 'normal' income if you have any.

If you were a beneficiary of a trust fund (sole beneficiary of a trust that has millions in assets), and the income of this trust fund is reported on a separate tax filing (and not yours), and you are living in a home that the trust funds supports and pays for, where is the so called income used to support the home that one lives in, reported (that is, the housing benefits etc.), after all, you (if you're living there), are the beneficiary of the payments? Perhaps in a separate tax filing that the trust fund and/or the attorneys administering the estate provide?

Perhaps more than just tax returns are needed is all I'm saying.

[LovingA2andMI]

80. Well, Well....Bernie Is A Liar (Hold The Pearls)....

This is not surprising considering Bernie ignored claims of Sexual Harassment going on with his Campaign Staff in the 2016 Election Cycle. Bernie also needs to know that Millennial's like Shadi Nasab and many others are not falling hook, line and sinker for his "snick" this time around -- as their are a number of diverse candidates in the field who are Democrats all the time - not just when it is convenient for Presidential runs - that are WELL QUALIFIED. Thank Goodness for the diverse field and it is a belief Bernie will fade as other candidates get more exposure and name recognition in the months ahead.

[namahage]

83. Why not just go straight to the IRS?

https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/how-to-get-tax-transcripts-and-copies-of-tax-returns-from-the-irs

Plan ahead. Delivery times for online and phone orders typically take five to 10 days from the time the IRS receives the request. You should allow 30 days to receive a transcript ordered by mail and 75 days for copies of your tax return.

[emulatorloo]

114. That sounds easy!

[ehrnst]

120. That's what I thought...

Wasn't PEEOTUS' excuse that the IRS wasn't done with them, so he couldn't release them?

Then the IRS said that wasn't true.

[Scurrilous]

86. ...

[Gothmog]

115. Washington Post-Opinion: Are Democrats going to let Sanders get away with this?

Link to tweet

He tried to excuse his failure to release his tax returns last time on the grounds that he didn’t wind up getting the nomination. Now, he’s not actually going to withhold his tax returns through the entire primary season, right? Well, he says he’ll release them “soon.” “We have to do just a few more little things,” he said. Do what things?

The excuse that he and his wife don’t have a fleet of accountants doesn’t make any sense when we are talking about 10 years of prior years’ returns. Presumably, those were completed long ago. (He can supplement his disclosure when he files his return this year for 2018.)

This would be suspicious and disturbing even if we had not elected a president who never turned over his taxes and has perpetuated a host of conflicts of interest and continued to receive foreign emoluments.

[NurseJackie]

122. Whenever anyone makes excuses... whenever there's delay after delay... it makes me suspicious.

Whenever anyone makes excuses... whenever there's delay after delay... it makes me suspicious.

If any candidate isn't forthcoming and direct and honest AND PROMPT with releasing their full tax returns (for the previous ten years) then I'm going to rightly wonder what he ("or she'') may be hiding.

[Cha]

162. "He tried to excuse his failure to release his tax returns last time on the grounds that he didn't

wind up getting the nomination".. what the hell kind of excuse is that?

They're suppose to be RELEASED Before the General.. so there's no stupid Surprises.

Anyone knows that.

[Maru Kitteh]

124. Living in a bubble is all well and good when floating comfortably upon friendly waters

But it all goes to hell pretty quickly in the face of a strong wind or a bit of rain.

[Adrahil]

132. Do we want a guy who can't produce his tax returns....

... running the US economy? I’m just a schlub, and I could produce 10+ years of mine tomorrow.

He’s either incredibly unorganized, or hiding something.

[Cha]

139. In a word.. or two..

Hell No.

[calimary]

142. Yep.

I want to know what he’s hiding.

[Gothmog]

133. Has sanders released his tax returns yet?

[Cha]

146. It's not "soon" yet.

[Gothmog]

140. Senator Gillibrand has released her taxes

Link to tweet

/photo/1

[Cha]

141. Thanks, Goth.

[Cha]

144. KICK for BS' Exposure..

[Gothmog]

150. Where are the tax returns?

Link to tweet

?s=20

[TexasTowelie]

154. Soon, he said

[Cha]

158. That's a LOT of Days!

[CentralMass]

152. Bernie is doing quite well. He is at least the #2 spot in just about every poll out there.

[Maru Kitteh]

183. #2 has been his forte.

[liberal N proud]

153. Let's watch his supporters

My experience with BS supporters is not too dissimilar to dealing with a trumpkin. Let's see how they handle this.

[Gothmog]

156. Democrats cannot use tax returns as an issue against trump if our nominee hides his returns

Link to tweet

?s=20

[Cha]

166. Exactly. It's so logical it

cannot be denied.

[Cha]

157. Kick!

[Gothmog]

159. every interviewer should be asking why he hasn't released his taxes

Link to tweet

[Cha]

164. Yep.. we want to know.

[Gothmog]

163. Is it soon yet?

Link to tweet

?s=20

[Autumn]

167. Hatred has a flavor all it's own, a unique signature if you will.

I guess you stumbled right out the door of DU. I miss the tombstone.

[QC]

169. There's a new and improved tombstone.

See below.

[QC]

168. Goodbye!

[Autumn]

170. .

[Gothmog]

171. Jennifer Rubin is going to keep on asking this question until sanders releases his tax returns

Link to tweet

[Gothmog]

172. Washington State is adopting a ballot access law

This is great news https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/434412-washington-senate-passes-bill-that-would-keep-trump-off-2020-ballot

Washington's state Senate passed a bill this week that would drop President Trump from the state's 2020 presidential ballot until he releases his tax returns.

The bill, which advanced Tuesday to the state's House of Representatives, according to CBS News, would require any candidate on the ballot for president in the state to release five years of tax returns before appearing in a general or primary election.

Senators voted by a 28-21 margin to approve the bill, according to CBS. The state's attorney general and solicitor told lawmakers in a letter this week that the proposal likely was constitutional, but analysts expect the law if passed to be challenged in federal court.

"The disclosure requirement you propose is likely Constitutional," the two wrote to lawmakers, according to CBS, adding that the measure "would definitely be challenged in court."

[Gothmog]

173. More states are looking at ballot access laws

Link to tweet

Trump has long insisted that he won’t release his returns because they are under audit, though that would not preclude him from doing so. The documents have become something of a liberal white whale, and Democrats at the federal level have been pursuing laws or legal maneuvers aimed at obtaining them.

In addition to Washington, several other states, including California, Hawaii and New Jersey are considering similar bills. Many, though not all, of the legislatures considering the bills are controlled by Democrats, but even in Republican-controlled states, Democrats have put forth such legislation. Measures failed earlier this year in Mississippi, New Mexico and New Hampshire.

[Cha]

175. Brilliant!

[Gothmog]

176. Washington Post-Time for candidates to disclose their tax returns

Link to tweet

[Gothmog]

177. CREW is calling on all presidential candidates to publicly release 10 years of tax returns.

Link to tweet

[Cha]

178. Good on CREW.. Mahalo, Goth!

[MH1]

181. Good, they are correct.

Not sure even 10 years is enough, but I'll take it as a start.

[Gothmog]

179. Kirsten Gillibrand released her 2018 tax returns on Wednesday

Link to tweet

[Gothmog]

180. Inslee, a 2020 presidential hopeful, released his tax returns this morning.

Link to tweet

[Cha]

182. Thanks!

[Gothmog]

185. Washington Post-Enough with the excuses. It's time for Sanders to release his tax returns.

Link to tweet

It has been more than a month since Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) told a national audience during a CNN town hall that he would release 10 years of his personal taxes “soon,” adding, “We have to do just a few little more things.” Five weeks later, it seems those “little” things still aren’t done; he told CBS on Sunday that “we have it all done and it’s just a question of dotting the i’s and crossing the t’s.”

Enough with the excuses, Senator. These sorts of shenanigans — and make no mistake, that’s exactly what they are at this point — both reduce the pressure on cowardly congressional Democrats to pursue President Trump’s personal and corporate tax returns, and endanger Democrats’ hopes of taking back the presidency in 2020. The progressive positions that Sanders champions, including Medicare-for-all, expanded Social Security and increasing the minimum wage to $15 an hour, are much too important to both the future of our country and our own personal finances to risk them over tax returns.

Trump broke with decades of precedent in refusing to make his tax returns public when he was running for president. The result? Not only don’t we know our president’s net worth, we also have little idea how he earned his fortune or how he makes his money now. Minus his paperwork, it’s hard to determine whether Trump is using the White House as a just-in-time moneymaking opportunity, violating the emoluments clause of the Constitution, and/or even paying his fair share of taxes at all.

[oasis]

186. Bernie wants us to accept "soon" as his personal I.O.U.

He's found a way out of making more excuses.

[USALiberal]

187. I am 100% done with him! nt

[Gothmog]

188. From the Hoarse Whisperer

Link to tweet

?s=20

[Cha]

189. KICK!