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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!

Thu Apr 9, 2020, 12:55 PM

 

Bernie Sanders Didn't Win the Ideas Primary, Either

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/04/08/bernie-sanders-2020-drop-out-lost-ideas-fight-176080

On Wednesday, as Sen. Bernie Sanders conceded the Democratic presidential primary, he declared victory for his brand of democratic socialism in the battle of ideas. “Few would deny that over the course of the past five years, our movement has won the ideological struggle,” the Vermont senator said as he announced the suspension of his campaign.

To hear Sanders tell it, he lost the battle, but won the larger war. In reality, however, it’s hard to see Sanders’ presidential campaign as anything other than a defeat.

His signature “Medicare for All” proposal was repeatedly bludgeoned in the presidential debates, fatally infected Elizabeth Warren’s campaign, and ultimately rejected by most Democratic voters in favor of Joe Biden’s proposal of a public health insurance option. More broadly, the Sanders strategy of making big promises with huge price tags, wrapped with the “socialist” label, sent most Democrats into a panic once he appeared to be nearing the nomination.

He lost. His campaign is over. He will not be the next president. And if his loyalists want to make future gains, they need to learn lessons from that defeat, instead of pretending that they have already won.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Arrow 30 replies Author Time Post
Reply Bernie Sanders Didn't Win the Ideas Primary, Either (Original post)
comradebillyboy Apr 2020 OP
jimfields33 Apr 2020 #1
The Magistrate Apr 2020 #2
jimfields33 Apr 2020 #5
The Magistrate Apr 2020 #10
Hav Apr 2020 #28
comradebillyboy Apr 2020 #6
onetexan Apr 2020 #9
Demsrule86 Apr 2020 #11
jimfields33 Apr 2020 #12
The Magistrate Apr 2020 #14
Bev54 Apr 2020 #15
ehrnst Apr 2020 #21
msongs Apr 2020 #18
ehrnst Apr 2020 #20
emmaverybo Apr 2020 #27
Blasphemer Apr 2020 #3
Demsrule86 Apr 2020 #13
mindem Apr 2020 #4
Cha Apr 2020 #7
comradebillyboy Apr 2020 #8
Gothmog Apr 2020 #16
TCJ70 Apr 2020 #17
ehrnst Apr 2020 #22
Gothmog Apr 2020 #26
LizBeth Apr 2020 #19
ehrnst Apr 2020 #23
LizBeth Apr 2020 #24
betsuni Apr 2020 #25
spooky3 Apr 2020 #29
The Magistrate Apr 2020 #30

Response to comradebillyboy (Original post)

Thu Apr 9, 2020, 01:04 PM

1. What is this?

 

Isn’t it just a time to be grateful that your candidate got the nom?

Everyone knows that sanders did a great deal to bring the party to 15 dollars an hour, begin to think about Medicare for all, dumb wars, dumb trade, climate change with green deal.

Enough of sanders stories. Everyone knows his contributions.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to jimfields33 (Reply #1)

Thu Apr 9, 2020, 01:12 PM

2. The Insufficiency Of Sanders' 'concession', Sir, Is Obvious To All

 

He is maintaining a campaign in all but name, and has indicated quite clearly he intends to make trouble at the convention.

He continues to allow persons employed by his campaign to make scurrilous charges against Mr. Biden, in many cases echoing attacks which are made by Republican operatives.

Attacks will cease when he makes this half-hearted mess of a 'concession' into a whole-hearted expression of support for Mr. Biden, and a full-throated denunciation of those among his followers who wish to damage the prospects of the Democratic Party's nominee for President.

It would be helpful for well-meaning supporters of Sen. Sanders to make clear that the partisans of that faction of 'Bernie' adherents which seems unwilling to support the Democratic nominee are flat wrong, and to seek by their own actions to demonstrate how wrong they are. Rather than to claim that when this faction of 'Bernie' devotees are attacked for what they are, nihilist wreckers whose actions assist the cheap thug Trump, it is they themselves who are being attacked. It is rather like a main-line Protestant minister complaining that when the likes of Falwell Jr. or Rick Wiles is attacked for their pernicious statements and actions, it is Christianity, and all Christians, who are being attacked. If you are not claiming Mr. Biden is a senile racist rapist who killed millions in Iraq, whom you could under no circumstances vote for, no one is attacking you. I certainly am not, and would not. You would probably find I agreed with you on many points of policy, and certainly on most goals to be sought.





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #2)

Thu Apr 9, 2020, 01:15 PM

5. Perhaps he thinks endorsing before warren would be rude.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to jimfields33 (Reply #5)

Thu Apr 9, 2020, 01:24 PM

10. Cute, Sir, But No More Weight Than A Helium Balloon

 

We may put to one side the ludicrous idea of Sanders showing politeness to a woman. That is outside the man's public character.

No one supposes Sen. Professor Warren's supporters evince any hostility to the Democratic Party, or need any particular courting to back Mr. Biden. Sen. Warren was my preferred candidate, and the preferred candidate of women in my household. We do not need her to endorse Mr. Biden, we understand what is at stake in this election.

Little or none of this can said of devotees of Sanders, or safely taken for granted where such are concerned. You and I both know this, and it cuts a poor figure to pretend otherwise.






"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to jimfields33 (Reply #5)

Thu Apr 9, 2020, 06:03 PM

28. Hahahaha, that was funny! (n/t)

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to jimfields33 (Reply #1)

Thu Apr 9, 2020, 01:16 PM

6. When Sanders actually stops running and gets behind our nominee

 

I'll lighten up. Biden shouldn't adopt a losing platform, it would be stupid and counterproductive. There is support for universal health care but MFA isn't the only path. France and Germany have excellent systems and neither is single payer. The candidates pushing MFA all lost. Green New Deal is not a winner with the wider electorate either.

Bernie Sanders does not define what constitutes progress.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to comradebillyboy (Reply #6)

Thu Apr 9, 2020, 01:19 PM

9. +1 K&R

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to jimfields33 (Reply #1)

Thu Apr 9, 2020, 01:25 PM

11. This is Sanders doing. I think he is irrelevant myself and needs to be ignored.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #11)

Thu Apr 9, 2020, 01:28 PM

12. Yes but posting this doesn't ignore him

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to jimfields33 (Reply #12)

Thu Apr 9, 2020, 01:31 PM

14. When He Has Sat All The Way Down, Sir, He Can Be Safely Ignored

 

Not until then.

So long as he speaks of gaining leverage for disputes at the convention, 'Bernie' remains on balance a hostile figure, who will need to be watched, and contained.





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to jimfields33 (Reply #1)

Thu Apr 9, 2020, 01:48 PM

15. Hillary Clinton tried to get Universal healthcare when she was first lady

 

I wish Bernie and his supporters would quit acting like it was all their idea. Elizabeth Warren also ran on it. The dems will get it when they have the power to do it, not because Bernie said it.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Bev54 (Reply #15)

Thu Apr 9, 2020, 03:54 PM

21. A mere FLOTUS...

 

That must have really been irritating to some who thought it was their own issue.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to jimfields33 (Reply #1)

Thu Apr 9, 2020, 02:22 PM

18. sanders copied almost all the ideas I had 40yrs ago lol. nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to jimfields33 (Reply #1)

Thu Apr 9, 2020, 03:53 PM

20. Actually Ted Kennedy was working to get single payer back in the early '70s when Bernie

 

was still writing essays for a local zine.

Al Gore won the Pulitzer Prize for his advocacy on action to reverse climate change going back to his days as a Senator - while Bernie was still Mayor of Burlington. The Green New Deal was not even fleshed out enough to get past a floor vote.

So no, Bernie didn't "bring those ideas to the party..."




And Bernie was happy to settle for a $10 minimum wage working with Trump after Trump won the election...

In a roundabout way, Sanders praised the billionaire businessman and expected they could cooperate on campaign pledges to raise the minimum wage to at least $10 an hour, to force big pharmaceutical companies into lower prices for seniors and to preserve Social Security.


https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/election/article115360103.html
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to jimfields33 (Reply #1)

Thu Apr 9, 2020, 05:59 PM

27. All the candidates were for climate change policies and minimum wage hike. All wanted to advance

 

to universal health care. He needs to sit down now and join in the effort to oust Trump.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to comradebillyboy (Original post)

Thu Apr 9, 2020, 01:13 PM

3. Thanks for sharing! I am a Biden-voting progressive and I think a sober analysis...

 

Of what went wrong would be useful. Framing it as "we won on the ideas" precludes making a shift in strategy for the progressive movement. Sanders's strategy couldn't sustain a deep coalition. That should be considered as the progressive movement moves forward. I am confident that people like AOC are thinking seriously about this.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Blasphemer (Reply #3)

Thu Apr 9, 2020, 01:28 PM

13. This sort of thing will make the progressive movement less powerful not more...

 

already we have 40 moderates who took back the house...we are building a coalition where they (I mean the Sanders type progressives, I am a liberal progressive) will be in the minority. they will in the end have less influence if they follow the scorched earth Sanders path.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to comradebillyboy (Original post)

Thu Apr 9, 2020, 01:14 PM

4. There is a reason his initials are BS

 

Bull shit.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to comradebillyboy (Original post)

Thu Apr 9, 2020, 01:17 PM

7. Amen & Hallelujah!

 

He lost. His campaign is over. He will not be the next president. And if his loyalists want to make future gains, they need to learn lessons from that defeat, instead of pretending that they have already won.

Mahalo, comradebillyboy & StaySafe
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Cha (Reply #7)

Thu Apr 9, 2020, 01:18 PM

8. You too Cha

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to comradebillyboy (Original post)

Thu Apr 9, 2020, 02:14 PM

16. Great article-sanders did not win the idea primary

 




To hear Sanders tell it, he lost the battle, but won the larger war. In reality, however, it’s hard to see Sanders’ presidential campaign as anything other than a defeat.

His signature “Medicare for All” proposal was repeatedly bludgeoned in the presidential debates, fatally infected Elizabeth Warren’s campaign, and ultimately rejected by most Democratic voters in favor of Joe Biden’s proposal of a public health insurance option. More broadly, the Sanders strategy of making big promises with huge price tags, wrapped with the “socialist” label, sent most Democrats into a panic once he appeared to be nearing the nomination.

He lost. His campaign is over. He will not be the next president. And if his loyalists want to make future gains, they need to learn lessons from that defeat, instead of pretending that they have already won.

In his concession/victory speech, Sanders based his claim on two data points. First, he said, “in so-called red states and blue states and purple states, a majority of the American people now understand that we must raise the minimum wage to at least $15 an hour, that we must guarantee health care as a right to all of our people, that we must transform our energy system away from fossil fuel, and that higher education must be available to all regardless of income.””.....

But there’s a big difference between superficial support for abstract concepts and devout support for concrete policies. Support for Sanders’ list of largely simplistic-though-popular principles splinters once respondents have to grapple with policy details, consider counter-arguments or choose from among multiple proposals

Take Sanders’ advocacy of a free college education for every American. As a principle, it speaks to the idea that everyone should have the ability to go to college, regardless of their origins or economic status. A December New York Times poll of Democrats and Democratic-leaners found broad support for making college affordable to all. But there’s a big difference between “affordable” and “free.” Just 30.5 percent of respondent agreed that “the government should make public colleges free for all Americans, regardless of income,” while two-thirds of Democrats believed that either wealthy families or most families should pay tuition....

Has Sanders helped to broaden the political conversation? Has he legitimized proposals once deemed too radical for consideration? Has he galvanized younger voters and helped pull the center of gravity in the Democratic Party further to the left than it was 16 years ago? Yes, yes and yes. But that is well short of having “won the ideological struggle.”

Democratic voters on Super Tuesday and after vehemently sent a message that there are limits as to how far left their party should go. If another democratic socialist wants to run for the presidency in 2024, she or he (probably she) should understand that the ideological struggle has not been won, and figure out what should be done differently in order to win it.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to comradebillyboy (Original post)

Thu Apr 9, 2020, 02:15 PM

17. Wow, you guys just can't take a win can you?

 

Let's hope these attitudes don't lead to a 2016 repeat.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to TCJ70 (Reply #17)

Thu Apr 9, 2020, 03:56 PM

22. What do you mean, "a 2016 repeat?"

 

I think that the admonishment should be going to those who "can't take a loss" don't you?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to TCJ70 (Reply #17)

Thu Apr 9, 2020, 04:31 PM

26. You mean booing JOHN Lewis at the National Convention again?

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to comradebillyboy (Original post)

Thu Apr 9, 2020, 03:09 PM

19. The only upside after 5 yrs is he is too old to run in our next primary. Done with Sanders and the

 

divisiveness and chaos he cause in our primary.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to LizBeth (Reply #19)

Thu Apr 9, 2020, 03:58 PM

23. He's already registered to run for re-election in the VT Senate race.

 

As an Independent of course.

I'm sure that not having to identify as a Democrat, even just in campaign events, must be something that is an upside as far as he's concerned.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #23)

Thu Apr 9, 2020, 04:12 PM

24. He will continue to sit in congress and do nothing until the day he dies, like he did nothing for 3

 

decades previously. Couldn't be more establishment than that.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to comradebillyboy (Original post)

Thu Apr 9, 2020, 04:13 PM

25. When I hear "Bernie won the ideological struggle" or dragged anyone to the left, I want to scream.

 

Even Republicans know that the Democratic Party is the party of universal health care and equal distribution of wealth. Who are these people who believe that typical Democratic ideas were "radical" until Bernie gave a stump speech about it? So tired of the "Mirror, mirror, on the wall, who's the most progressive of them all?" game.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to betsuni (Reply #25)

Thu Apr 9, 2020, 07:42 PM

29. I agree. And,

 

Sanders can’t even claim that he won the “youth” vote (people below age 50). He won the majority of those in that age group who voted in the Dem primary. That does not extend to everyone else in that age group.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to betsuni (Reply #25)

Thu Apr 9, 2020, 07:47 PM

30. I Hear Jeremy Corbyn, Ma'am

 

Proclaiming he had 'won the argument' after leading Labour to a recent trouncing so thorough the Tories emerged with an eighty seat majority.





Urged supporters to continue voting for them, so they could have more 'leverage' at the convention. On past form, Sanders wants to be backed by disruption at the convention so he can strong-arm his way into concessions far greater than reasonable persons would seek, or allow if petitioned.

Other candidates simply employed the legal formula that allows them to continue soliciting funds to pay off their campaign committee's debts.





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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