'Stop Sanders' Democrats Are Agonizing Over His Momentum

[workinclasszero]

By Jonathan Martin April 16, 2019

From canapé-filled fund-raisers on the coasts to the cloakrooms of Washington, mainstream Democrats are increasingly worried that their effort to defeat President Trump in 2020 could be complicated by Mr. Sanders, in a political scenario all too reminiscent of how Mr. Trump himself seized the Republican nomination in 2016.

How, some Democrats are beginning to ask, do they thwart a 70-something candidate from outside the party structure who is immune to intimidation or incentive and wields support from an unwavering base, without simply reinforcing his “the establishment is out to get me’’ message — the same grievance Mr. Trump used to great effect?

But stopping Mr. Sanders, or at least preventing a contentious convention, could prove difficult for Democrats.

He has enormous financial advantages — already substantially outraising his Democratic rivals — that can sustain a major campaign through the primaries. And he is well-positioned to benefit from a historically large field of candidates that would splinter the vote: If he wins a substantial number of primaries and caucuses and comes in second in others, thanks to his deeply loyal base of voters across many states, he would pick up formidable numbers of delegates for the nomination.

That prospect is not only spooking establishment-aligned Democrats, but it is also creating tensions about what, if anything, should be done to halt Mr. Sanders.

“There’s a growing realization that Sanders could end up winning this thing, or certainly that he stays in so long that he damages the actual winner,” said David Brock, the liberal organizer, who said he has had discussions with other operatives about an anti-Sanders campaign and believes it should commence “sooner rather than later.”

But to some veterans of the still-raw 2016 primary, a heavy-handed intervention may only embolden him and his fervent supporters.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/16/us/politics/bernie-sanders-democratic-party.html

[Nanjeanne]

1. WTF?

“There’s a growing realization that Sanders could end up winning this thing, or certainly that he stays in so long that he damages the actual winner,” said David Brock, the liberal organizer, who said he has had discussions with other operatives about an anti-Sanders campaign and believes it should commence “sooner rather than later.”

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

3. Surprised?!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Demsrule86]

4. We will lose if he is in the general. I still don't think he wins a primary myself.

Sure I would vote for him in a general but it won't be enough.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

33. The only way we POSSIBLY lose in 2020 is if Bernie is NOT in the general...

either as the presidential nominee or as (Elizabeth's) vice-president... Bernie is THAT popular with ordinary folks. I know this is hard for some to accept and I'm not sure why. As the campaign rolls forward and Bernie continues to gain traction, I am hopeful we can unify under the "Bernie Banner" and we'll start seeing less and less articles like the one highlighted in the OP, about trying to stop him.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[marylandblue]

56. I don't think he's our only chance, but everybody always fears the socialist firebrand

I do think there is something rather Trumpian about him, which is why he could actually win. The debates would be quite a spectacle.

People like Sanders are hard to work with and can't be controlled, so establishments don't like them.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

65. Of course, I didn't say Bernie was our "ONLY chance"... hence, I used the word "POSSIBLY."

So, I agree with you... I would also say, certainly, Bernie gives Democrats the BEST chance of winning in 2020.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Thekaspervote]

297. +1000

[Demsrule86]

67. I do not believe he can won a general... I wish it was so. He has my vote in a general but it won't

Save us.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

72. Yes, we've had this discussion before & I respect your opinion Demsrule...

I just STRONGLY disagree.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[njhoneybadger]

82. If it ever came down to Bernie and TRump the orange one will win by a landslide

That's what Rethugs want because they know they can scare the ever loving hell out of Americans with the threat of full blown socialism taking over America. TRumpers will be whipped up into a wild frenzy. It would be so bad Bernie would be lucky to escape assassination before the election.

[CentralMass]

104. Latest poll on that.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_sanders-6250.html

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

122. BOOOOOOM!!!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Skya Rhen]

152. Bernie's lead is always within the margin of error and the same polls show Biden

with a much larger lead, when matched up to Trump. So, let's just go with the weaker of the two to ensure a greater probability of a Democratic victory...

[kenfrequed]

277. Hmm...

If only we had used that logic in 2016.

I think when things start becoming more real those numbers will shift. We are over a year out right now.

[ehrnst]

224. A poll for an as of yet non-existent match up.

Seems like a legitimate way to predict a win in a real matchup.

From people who dismiss polls where a candidate who has not yet declared is beating Bernie.

[Skya Rhen]

146. Hence the staged applause given to Bernie at Fox's Townhall...

Republicans are desperate to have Trump re-elected and I am convinced that the townhall was a part of their strategy to accomplish this - they would never pass up on this opportunity, after having weeks to plan ahead.

I vehemently submit that Bret Baier would never have asked that Medicare-for-all question if he did not already know the answer/response. I trust him as much as s I trust Bill Barr and Sarah Sanders.

Their aim, at the town hall, was to sway public opinion towards Bernie in hopes that he becomes the Democratic nominee so that he can be easily defeated in the general. Always remember that they are in the tank for Trump - not Bernie...

[LiberalLovinLug]

183. They better be careful what they wish for

I seem to recall there was another election where no one thought it possible that a populist "anti-establishment" firebrand would actually win.


Do you think perhaps there were Democrat operatives that went to DT's primary rallys and pushed him forward too? If so they made the same mistake.

[Gothmog]

235. Fox news pushed sanders because trump will beat sanders and win 45+ states

[Thekaspervote]

299. A certain and uncomfortable fact!

[Thekaspervote]

298. Absolutely! Baier was told what to ask! When Biden announces...think fux will have him on?

[Agschmid]

169. Wouldn't you want to wait for people to vote before we unify under a banner?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

177. The road to unity that I'm talkin about is a PROCESS...as more people jump on the "Bernie Bandwagon"

on his way to the Democratic nomination for President, the more we will continue to unify as a Party... yes, under the Bernie Banner. Make sense?!


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Agschmid]

180. Okay sounds good, it's always important people get a chance to vote.

[Thekaspervote]

300. NO! It makes no sense. Mr sanders cannot win in the general

[ehrnst]

222. Because you say so?

I know this is hard for some to accept and I'm not sure why.

Because not everyone feels the way you do, and many have a wider source of information on politics than you might.

That's something that seems hard for you to accept.

[NewJeffCT]

229. Mike Dukakis was really popular with everybody

and then the Republican media machine got ahold of him and he tanked with just one ad. He went from up by 18 points to losing by 8 points in an electoral landslide (426-111 - California went Republican, as did Maryland, PA, IL, MI and Ohio)

[Gothmog]

234. If sanders is the nominee, trump will win 45+ states in the real world

[roody]

58. Depends on the rigging.

[Demsrule86]

68. He won't win general. Mark my words. Anyone who looks at the electoral map

or the midterms can see who can win a general if they choose to and who can't win a general. The midterm was won by moderates and victory goes through the blue wall. Biden can win the states we need in a general and expand the win. Sanders can not. I will vote for whoever is the candidate but some have a better shot than others.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

71. I've certainly seen no evidence of that... I'm actually pretty confident in assuming that

Bernie will get a fair shake, as he continues along the road to victory in capturing the 2020 Democratic nomination for President. I don't think I'm wrong to assume this.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Demsrule86]

78. He won't...the moderate Independents won't vote for him. Sure we will but it will not be enough.

[LiberalLovinLug]

185. IVN POLL: Independents Like Bernie, Tulsi, and Trump for 2020

https://ivn.us/2019/02/08/ivn-poll-independents-like-bernie-tulsi-and-trump-for-2020/

[Demsrule86]

204. The fact that Tulsi is there.. and it is a bad poll.

[LiberalLovinLug]

208. It's a "bad" poll?

What does that even mean?

And why wouldn't Tulsi rate high with Independents? She's an ex-soldier, and has a history of speaking out against even a Democratic President. That kind of perceived independence, is why Independents like her.

[Demsrule86]

272. I saw one of those Internet polls...from a different poster confused the posts sorry.

But I don't care from Tulsa and see no evidence of support.

[lapucelle]

276. It's not a scientific poll.

Last week, IVN surveyed its own audience to see who they approved of in the 2020 election. Full disclosure: this was not a scientific poll. We simply sent a survey to some of our readers asking them to select any of the presidential candidates they might support.

https://ivn.us/2019/02/08/ivn-poll-independents-like-bernie-tulsi-and-trump-for-2020/

[namahage]

295. Kamala Harris preferred by progressives 2-1 over Bernie Sanders

Source: Democratic Underground Presidential Preference Poll, February 2019*












*Not a scientific poll. We just hope you won't read this far.

[thesquanderer]

202. I think a lot of independents who picked Trump over Hillary...

...would consider Sanders over Trump. Some of them actually disliked Trump, but REALLY disliked Hillary (I know a couple of those people myself), and Sanders shares one part of Trump's appeal, the "outsider" (of a sort) who think things in Washington really have to be shaken up, which is an appealing message to many.

I actually think Sanders' appeal may be bigger outside the Dem base than within it... i.e. the independents.

[Demsrule86]

203. They will not consider a socialist...yes I know the difference but you can't

Explain it sufficiently...when the GOP get done with their socialist ,high tax, take away your healthcare ( work)...bullshit , we are cooked . Also Sanders will not appeal to the rustbelt...if he is the general, candidate we lose,

[thesquanderer]

207. Socialist is not as much of a negative as it once was. (n/t)

[Demsrule86]

216. Not with us but the GOP ARE already using it.

And it is still effective..

[Thekaspervote]

302. Absolutely!

[LiberalLovinLug]

210. "Sanders will not appeal to the rustbelt...if he is the general, candidate we lose"

Are you kidding?
You can criticize Sanders being viable from other angles, some I'd even agree with you on, but Sanders has always had strong support in the Rust Belt. Based partly on his long time history in opposing the original Free Trade deal. That little tif could very well have been the initial friction started between himself and the Clintons. And that only exacerbated when she also publicly backed the TPP. He always had a more blue collar appeal. That is the reason that Sanders would have most likely won the 2016 election.

[Demsrule86]

215. He will not be strong in the people rustbelt.

I live in Ohiol

[Thekaspervote]

301. +1000

[Delmette2.0]

166. Depends on the rigging.....

Yep, like when Hillary snagged so many of the Super Delegates before the primaries.

[exboyfil]

87. Then Biden better get going and do something about it

Same with the other candidates.

That doing something about it means advancing the reasons to elect them and not rejecting Sanders.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

106. I truly believe Michelle Obama is the ONLY ONE who can "do something about it."

Thankfully, for Bernie's sake, she's not running.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Demsrule86]

171. We are almost a year away from Iowa. There is time. I hear it will be next week after Easter

We are expecting announcement maybe in Scranton.

[SidDithers]

31. Surprised that Bernie will stay in so long...

that he’ll damage the eventual nominee?

Nope. Not surprised at all.

Sid

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

37. Yes, Bernie is leading the pack of declared candidates... why hasn't he dropped out already?!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[CentralMass]

101. It would stand to reason that the party would rally behind such a strong candidate rather then, if

this article is true, try to take him down.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

108. You'd think!! It says a lot and, perhaps, ironically, splains why Bernie is SO damn popular

with the American people... they know wuzzup!!


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Thekaspervote]

303. No he is not as popular as you would like to think

https://www.democraticunderground.com/128731822#post28

Other polls given at link

[CentralMass]

102. No.

[Gothmog]

189. Have you found video of any significant number of African Americans attending a sanders event yet?

How will sanders be the nominee without African American support?

[LiberalLovinLug]

196. Bernie Sanders Is Beating Kamala Harris 2-1 Among Black Democratic Primary Voters New Poll Finds

https://theintercept.com/2019/03/06/bernie-sanders-black-voters-2020/


https://morningconsult.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Political-Intelligence-3.5.19.pdf

[Gothmog]

232. And yet sanders cannot get many African Americans to attend his events

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[BlueWI]

256. Why do black voters get brought up so often just to bash Sanders?

It would be nice to promote issues of concern to black voters more frequently and stop speaking of black voters only in relation to their perceived non-support of Sanders.

Not to mention that this ceaseless drumbeat marginalizes black voters who do support Sanders.

[Gothmog]

261. sanders cannot get the nomination without the support of African American voters

I was a delegate to the national convention and I watched the planned stunt by the sanders campaign/delegates of booing Congressman John Lewis. This was a planned stunt that the Clinton campaign found out about and warned her delegates. According to my whip, sanders was asked to call off or try to stop this stunt and declined

Link to tweet

My whip and other Clinton supporters may show up in commercials on this incident if sanders is still in the race on Super Tuesday. Good luck with finding African American voters support.

[BlueWI]

266. You've posted this numerous times.

Nothing new at this point. It only reinforces one-dimensional views of the candidate, which helps no one.

Black voters are not monolithic. They (including me) can reach conclusions without constant reminders of John Lewis. He accomplished historic things through his activism and vision and it's unfortunate that this happened. But to insist that this moment defined Sanders is just an editorial interpretation that's already been repeated. To compare this to1964 is an ahistorical bridge to nowhere.

[LiberalLovinLug]

279. Thank you

I would think it's getting quite tiring for African American voters to always be used as stereotype cudgel, against him.

[BlueWI]

282. I hear you.

And I am not even a Sanders' supporter this time for the primary.

[Gothmog]

286. So booing Congressman Lewis will not affect African American voters

So far there have very few African Americans attending sanders events. sanders will not be the nominee without support of African American voters

[Gothmog]

280. It seems that sanders has written off getting African American vote in South Carolina

sanders strategy appears to be count only white voters in New Hampshire and Iowa and hope that Booker and Harris split the African American vote in South Carolina https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/04/bernie-sanders-thinking-he-will-win-it-all-2020/587326/

He’s counting on winning Iowa and New Hampshire, where he was already surprisingly strong in 2016, and hoping that Cory Booker and Kamala Harris will split the black electorate in South Carolina and give him a path to slip through there, too. And then, Sanders aides believe, he’ll easily win enough delegates to put him into contention at the convention. They say they don’t need him to get more than 30 percent to make that happen.

“There’s a three-out-of-four chance we are not the nominee,” Faiz Shakir, Sanders’s current campaign manager, says he tells the senator, “but that one-in-four chance is better than anyone else in the field.”...

He’s counting on winning Iowa and New Hampshire, where he was already surprisingly strong in 2016, and hoping that Cory Booker and Kamala Harris will split the black electorate in South Carolina and give him a path to slip through there, too. And then, Sanders aides believe, he’ll easily win enough delegates to put him into contention at the convention. They say they don’t need him to get more than 30 percent to make that happen.

[George II]

265. But he's behind Joe Biden in every single category in that poll.

[namahage]

294. Yeah, but "Two-time President Obama's VP, Biden found to be MOST popular with African Americans"

wouldn't fit the Intercept narrative, now would it?

[lapucelle]

305. "...or certainly that he stays in so long that he damages the actual winner."

I'm not surprised that some Democrats are preparing for this eventuality. It's one of the factors that helped Trump get elected in 2016.

[workinclasszero]

5. WTF indeed

So much for letting the voters decide huh?

[seaglass]

11. Voters are the ones who will decide. Just like last time. n/t

[workinclasszero]

15. David Brock would like a word with you......

“There’s a growing realization that Sanders could end up winning this thing, or certainly that he stays in so long that he damages the actual winner,” said David Brock, the liberal organizer, who said he has had discussions with other operatives about an anti-Sanders campaign and believes it should commence “sooner rather than later.”

[seaglass]

17. David Brock has one vote. Are you some kind of conspiracy theorist? n/t

[workinclasszero]

22. Ask the NYT not me

Do you dispute what they reported?

[seaglass]

41. I only read what you posted, what is there to dispute? I am totally on board for strategic

voting. It's why I donated to both Beto and Mayor Pete.

[thesquanderer]

145. David Brock is one of the leaders of the Circular Firing Squad contingent.

No matter who you're for, he is not our friend.

Here's a thought... If a candidate "could end up winning this thing," how about trying NOT to organize a group to damage them?

I wonder if he would be as similarly hell bent on stopping the ideologically similar Elizabeth Warren if she suddenly shot up in the polls? That's a serious question... I don't know if his objection to the possibility of Sanders' winning is ideological or personal.

[Nanjeanne]

160. I'm sure Elizabeth wouldn't be safe from Brock either. And agree completely with

your thought completely.

[LiberalLovinLug]

193. If a candidate "could end up winning this thing," how about trying NOT to organize a group to damage

this ^

Which is what they did to a certain extent last time. How'd that work out?

I really am impressed with Pete. I hope he does well, and I'd be stoked if he came out a winner. But ffs, if Sanders ends up in the lead with Democrats and Independents, as well as young voters, minorities, new voters.......uh....Why mess with that? .....(Again?)

[Hassin Bin Sober]

283. Of course he would. He will smear anyone he is paid to smear.

Apparently Bernie rejected his job application.

Talk about extortion. Here he is reaching out and offering to work with Bernie.

With his history as a republican rat fucker, this clown should never have been anywhere near Democratic electoral politics. Now he is looking to hang out his shingle again.

Dear Senator Sanders: I’m with You in the Fight Ahead
Go to the profile of David Brock
David Brock
Jan 10, 2017

From the snow-filled days of door-knocking in New Hampshire, to November’s devastating result, the 2016 presidential election was hard-fought and heartbreaking. On the Democratic side, we had two leading candidates who each articulated a vision of an inclusive, prosperous, vibrant American democracy. On the other side, we had Donald Trump, the most corrupt and least qualified man ever to seek the presidency.

It’s no secret who I supported. I was one of the most visible and vocal advocates of Secretary Hillary Clinton. Many others backed you, Senator Sanders, with contagious zeal. At times during the Democratic primary, I was criticized for being too aggressive in my support for Secretary Clinton — and rightly so. Looking back, I recognize that there were a few moments when my drive to put Hillary in the White House led me to take too stiff a jab. I own up to that, I regret it, and I apologize to you and your supporters for it.

With Trump’s inauguration looming just days away, now is the time for us to unite as a party and a progressive movement, and put the resentments of the past behind us. Trump’s rise to power, fueled by hatred and portending crisis, threatens to eviscerate our constitutional system of government. Our nation marches closer to Trumpism each day, a path paved with reckless Tweets and the normalization of the ugly and the absurd.

We who reject Trump’s bankrupt leadership must heal old wounds, reorient ourselves, and embrace common goals. And if there is one thing on which we can all agree, it’s this: we cannot concede any ground. Not to the alt-right, not to the Kochs, not to the Paul Ryan establishment, and not, most of all, to Donald Trump, our incoming kleptocrat-in-chief. We must unify in resistance.

[thesquanderer]

306. Interesting, hadn't seen that, thanks. (n/t)

[Autumn]

2. Maybe they should join him instead of trying to stop him. People like what he has to say and

they like him.

David Brock.

[workinclasszero]

9. Too much common sense

Too much let the voters decide actual democracy for some people apparently.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

16. I've been sayin' this for years about Bernie... ain't no stoppin him now!

It reminds me of that old adage: "if you can't beat him, join him." There's a reason Bernie is so damn popular with the average American... I wish some who are fervently opposed to his nomination would stop long enough to understand why that is and what brought about the revolution in politics we are now witnessing. To them, I say "join us"... there's still room on the bandwagon.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[George II]

264. If that were true, wouldn't he be president today.....

[Autumn]

268. The circumstances were very different then. nt

[TexasTowelie]

6. What momentum?

I see a lot of people on this forum that were supporters for Bernie that are indicating that they prefer other candidates. The only person that I've seen switch to Bernie is you. Bernie also hasn't cracked the 8% on the preference list on DU.

FWIW, Bernie came in 6th in Texas in fundraising behind O'Rourke, Castro, Harris, Gillibrand, and Klobuchar as noted in this thread: https://www.democraticunderground.com/128770964

[shanny]

24. Texas and DU

are a small fraction of the party.

[TexasTowelie]

36. I don't see the momentum for Bernie in the national polls either.

If anything, Buttigieg has the momentum currently.

By the way, Texas will have 262 delegates at the DNC in 2020.

[shanny]

50. OK

Bernie has out-raised every other D candidate by a wide margin, but I'm sure that doesn't mean a thing.

[TexasTowelie]

64. See post #53.

Even ignoring the two Texas natives, Bernie was behind Harris, Gillibrand, and Klobuchar in Texas. That is not a positive sign for a candidate that has national name recognition.

My own anecdotal conversations among Democrats in my neighborhood shows very little support for Bernie and several of those neighbors said that they would likely vote for a third candidate or not vote in the presidential race. Bernie will have no coattails in this state and I suspect many other states which is why I can't support him in the primaries.

[ehrnst]

66. Well, he had the largest email list by far.

I know that I was recieving fundraising emails from him a few years ago, and I hadn't even signed up for them.

[George II]

249. Me too, they started arriving early in December 2015. Never signed up for them.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

89. Of course not, it's BERNIE we're talkin' about. Now, if it was any OTHER candidate...

well, THAT'S a different story!! Looks like the "Bernie Standard" is alive and well these days.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[radical noodle]

172. You had to have known

that there would be some backlash against him after the way he behaved after losing the nomination and after the way they behaved at the convention?

I'm not trying to be mean here, but Bernie brought this on himself. There are a lot of people who literally despise him because of his own actions.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

176. Of course this new "Bernie Standard" wouldnt apply to any other candidate, now would it?!

No, there would be outrage... and cries of "how dare you bring this up"?! But, it's really okay... Bernie can withstand the daily bashing. Eventually. after he wins the Democratic nomination, he'll unite the Party, he'll defeat peeResident tRump and all will be well again. (Looking forward to that day!!)


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[radical noodle]

181. I don't see it happening...

but defeating trump is my main goal, too.

[George II]

250. Oboy, another "standard". This is what, the fourth now?

[LiberalLovinLug]

213. "after the way he behaved after losing the nomination"

Hmmm. You mean this horrible behaviour?

Or this? Even in front of supporters, after the revelations of what went on with the DNC during the primaries.
It was almost inevitable that there'd be some backlash.

Even though it would have never happened, can you imagine if it were Sanders that had won, and it was found out that the DNC was in the bag for him all along, and had plans in the works if she had ever threatened to over take him? I wonder if every Hillary fan would have kept silent.

He could have been openly resentful, or even purposely monotone and brief in his Hillary endorsement. But he raised his voice louder instead. Almost scolding his supporters who were booing.

[ehrnst]

220. "Almost scolding his supporters who were booing. "

One text message sent out to tell them to be supportive of Democrats.

One. 1. Uno.

[Autumn]

40. Nation wide, where the voters are, Bernie out raised all the candidates.

https://www.apnews.com/6a98a3828317420884341c107462a1ef

Democratic presidential candidates raised about $75 million during the first quarter of the 2020 election, a lackluster sum spread out across more than a dozen campaigns that signals a drawn-out battle likely lies ahead.

Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders led the field by raising $18 million and California Sen. Kamala Harris came in second with $12 million. Former Texas Rep. Beto O’Rourke came in third with $9.3 million, followed by South Bend, Indiana, Mayor Pete Buttigieg, who capitalized on a flurry of publicity to raise $7 million.

The rest of the field of more than a dozen candidates raised $6 million or less apiece.

Fundraising figures submitted to the Federal Election Commission by Monday’s reporting deadline show Democratic candidates not only lag behind President Donald Trump, who raised $30 million, but took in less than the party did during the same period in the 2008 election. That year eight candidates collectively raised over $80 million despite a maximum donation amount that was hundreds of dollars less than the current $2,800 cap.

[TexasTowelie]

53. Yes, and after his first day haul

the momentum slowed down tremendously, but that fact is conveniently omitted from the excerpt.

[Autumn]

55. Looks like he wasn't the only one who lost his fund raising momentum.

If that's the standard we go by.

[seaglass]

7. Bloomberg will get in the race if Bernie is the nominee. n/t

[workinclasszero]

10. LOL

Sweet let him waste millions on a joke candidacy!

[seaglass]

13. Bernie has the highest unfavorables of any candidate running on the Dem ticket. Bloomberg would

hurt him substantially. Keep laughing.

[workinclasszero]

18. OMG

Bloomie is a joke like that idiot from Starbucks.

If that is all Bernie has to worry about, it's clear sailing all the way to the nomination!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

59. LOL... ain't that the truth!! The only one who could MAYBE stop Bernie is...

Michelle Obama. Obviously, she is incredibly popular and brilliant out on the stump... almost as much as her husband (some might even say MORE!!).

I've been right about Bernie AND I'm right about Michelle. You wanna stop Bernie?? Michelle is your secret weapon!! She is, without a doubt, "The One." That's why I'm glad Michelle's NOT running... for Bernie's sake. Though I would run like hell to be the 1st in line to vote for Michelle were she to become our nominee.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[True Blue American]

85. Bloomberg is a joke?

Gee, I wish I had that jokes reputation and money!

Bloomberg could bury Bernie with money and not blink an eye.

Seriously becoming a millionaire ain’t what it used to be. Many of the middle class are millionaires.

Not hard for Bernie on the public dole for 40 years. I am not impressed with that.

[workinclasszero]

115. Well lucky for us then that Bloomberg's money doesn't buy my vote

or the votes of millions of other Bernie backers huh?

I mean the only reason he would run is fear of paying taxes under a Sander's administration and everybody knows it!

[shanny]

199. yes, Bloomberg is a joke

especially if he thinks ANYONE other than his fellow billionaires* is clamoring for his leadership. it is time for some people to sit in the back.

*about 500 votes nationwide. big whoop.

p.s. "the public dole" is charity; do you consider every government employee to be a charity case?

[Celerity]

293. you misread what they said, they are talking about the general, not the Democratic nomination

Schultz and probably Bloomberg will both run for sure against Sanders and Trump. It will be a shitshow (ie Trump landslide) if that happens. You will have three multifaceted, non stop blast cannons, all backed by hundreds of millions of dollars, taking square aim at Sanders.

[BlueWI]

74. Which Democratic candidate had the highest negatives

in 2016 pre-primary?

And who came out ahead in the Democratic primary season?

There's still time for the Inslee bandwagon!

[seaglass]

175. I don't know, I assume you mean Hillary? It's comparing apples to oranges. No one knew Bernie back

then but he clearly ended up with higher negatives since he lost. Everyone knows Bernie now, everyone knows Biden. Bernie is outperforming everyone in the negative column.

[BlueWI]

257. Put those goal posts down!

Last edited Tue Apr 16, 2019, 07:08 PM - Edit history (1)

They get picked up and moved every time there is a poll favoring Sanders or a major fundraising haul.

We'd be way better off as a party learning from what Sanders does rather than dismissing every potential lesson from his campaign's successes.

[seaglass]

259. Nah, Bernie has been trending highest unfavorables since he got in the race. I'm clear on

how Bernie does what he does, no thanks.

[Decoy of Fenris]

262. High unfavorables didn't stop us last time. Why should we care now? nt

[BlueWI]

263. This part is true,

that he has the highest unfavorable ratings. That's why I don't support him as a primary candidate this time.

But I also want Democrats to win in 2020, so I am down to support the nominee no matter what. We need to win the Senate too to make an impact on governance.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

209. Bloomberg is on record wanting to cut social security and Medicare and raise the retirement age

How well do you think that will play in the Democratic primaries?

[seaglass]

212. It won't play in the Democratic primaries at all. It also appears that he ruled a run out when

Schultz started his efforts, which I did not know.

[BeyondGeography]

8. Shit happens when you lose an election to Donald Trump

Maybe it’s starting to sink in.

[abqtommy]

23. Hillary didn't lose to Trumpus,

she won. The election itself was corrupted to enable the Trump Loser to claim victory. It's just as important to strengthen the voting process as it is to have the right candidate. In 2016 we did have the right candidate.

[shanny]

26. It shouldn't have been close enough to steal.

[Cha]

52. Stein shouldn't have LIED her GD head OFF..

But, she did.. and she has blood on her hands for LYING about no difference between Hillary and trump.

Link to tweet

Second, a lot of Bernie Sanders supporters weren’t big fans of Clinton. So Stein campaigning on the idea that Clinton and Trump were similar made it harder for Clinton to win over those voters — even if Sanders voters didn’t vote for Stein, they may have stayed home out of disgust.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/jill-stein-democratic-spoiler-or-scapegoat/

[oasis]

167. Stein and other fervent Anti-Hillaryists cannot escape responsibility for

their role in the damage Trump has inflicted on America. They are all guilty. Period.

[Cha]

233. No they canNot Escape it, oasis..

even though, in typical fashion, they will deny it, and Not take responsibility to their last gasp.

And, certainly "No Remorse".

[Thekaspervote]

304. And that includes those that were die hard sanders supporters

[Cha]

236. Yeah, yeah.. so glad you read it

so many times "before you joined"... it obviously needs to be repeated.

What you FAIL to TAKE into account is that Jill Fucking Stein has a responsibility NOT to LIE.

This is ON STEIN's LIES.


It's a Very Good Idea Not to tell me or anyone what to post or who to support.

[Cha]

238. Bottom Line.. Jill Fucking Stein is a LIAR.

[Cha]

241. Keep covering for the RF, Stein.

[Cha]

246. Jill Stein is A Fucking 3rd party RF.

[Cha]

248. Jill Stein is A Fucking 3rd party RF.

[NurseJackie]

253. She who gets the last word, wins! He who departs DU, loses!

[Cha]

254. Omg! That guy.. lol

"leave jill stein alone!"

Alohahoa, Jackie!

[BlueFlorida]

73. Bernie's top lieutenants advocated voting for Stein.

The word on the street, spread not so subtly was for Bernie supporters to vote for Trump or Stein so Bernie can have another chance. If Hillary had won, there would never have been Bernie 2020.

[BlueFlorida]

92. Our candidate was the right one -- perhaps the best ever

as President Obama said she was more qualified than himself or her husband when they ran.

Our candidate was maligned and tarnished by one candidate with memes, amplified by Russian bots such as

1. Corporate Democrat
2. Establishment Democrat
3. Corrupt Democrat
4. Pay to Play Democrat
5. Cold Democrat
6. Unreachable Democrat

all the while when said candidate was not even a Democrat.

[shanny]

97. and there you go again

I said whatever her qualifications, she was the wrong candidate for the time. It was close enough to steal, she is not in the WH. QED

[R B Garr]

164. She had three oppositions campaigns working against her:

Trump/Sanders/Stein. Those are the facts. This is why the common knowledge about extended vicious attacks on our nominee only helped Trump.

[Cha]

252. Hillary had 4 Negative Forces working

against her.. the M$M/emails!

RB

[R B Garr]

267. That's exactly right, Cha! She had them against

her, too.

[JudyM]

94. IKR

I remember those polls as being consistent throughout. Some chose not to believe they carried any truth.
Blaming someone makes a loss easier on the psyche.

[shanny]

190. +1

[flotsam]

188. The word on the street

is just another way to say "Some people say" ...

[shanny]

192. +1

[sheshe2]

251. Link?

the polls at the time: polls that showed Hillary in a tight race with tRump*...and Bernie beating him handily.

[Autumn]

284. Are you saying that Bernie crossed the Rubicon? I never heard any word on the street

telling me to vote for Trump or Stein. Which of Bernie's top lieutenants advocated voting for Stein?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

75. THIS!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[handmade34]

84. wouldn't have been if

Bernie supporters had voted D. approx. 30% of them voted Trump/Stein/no vote...

[shanny]

88. link

[handmade34]

103. you are correct, it shouldn't have been close

and I believe the reason Hillary didn't win was because of the numbers of people who don't vote... but Bernie supporters work off emotion as much as any... Bernie is my Senator and he is okay... I don't believe he will win or help the causes for which he believes in

Link to tweet

the analysis of the 2016 Cooperative Congressional l Election Survey, fewer than 80 percent of those who voted for Sanders, an independent, in the Democratic primary did the same for Clinton when she faced off against Trump a few months later

https://www.newsweek.com/bernie-sanders-trump-2016-election-654320

[TCJ70]

113. Percentages don't work by adding them up...

...even in the worst estimates 88% of Sanders supporters voted for Clinton. That’s pretty damn good. Better than the 85% of Clinton voters that went to Obama in 2008.

So only 12% of Sanders primary supporters are the villains you’re looking for.

[workinclasszero]

118. They always forget the PUMA people around here

Funny how that works.

[vsrazdem]

149. And 13% of Hillary supporters voted for McCain in 2008.

[vsrazdem]

150. Hillary didn't win for many reasons, but Bernie was not one of them.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=post&forum=1287&pid=71211

http://www.centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/articles/did-bernie-sanders-cost-hillary-clinton-the-presidency/


"One piece of this that’s important to keep in context is that you always see this kind of defection between a primary and a general election. In 2008, you saw a lot of Hillary Clinton voters who ended up backing John McCain — so it's not abnormal to see this kind of thing. And more of them did so in 2008 than this time. [15 percent of Clinton’s 2008 voters in the primary supported McCain in that year’s general election.] Although given the candidates this time versus in 2008, it may have been surprising to see even this rate of defection."

[shanny]

161. thank you

Last edited Tue Apr 16, 2019, 12:56 PM - Edit history (2)

One link shows a maximum of 16% in one state; not 30% anywhere. The other link claims that 80% of Bernie voters declined to vote for Hillary. Sorry, that is preposterous; 8% is more likely...which is less than the PUMAs in 2008.

One question to ask: were those voters who wanted Bernie, and switched to tRump in a fit of pique; or were they voters who would not have voted for Hillary regardless?

It is easy to blame outside forces but imo our first obligation is to get our own house in order. There was plenty of evidence of disaffection with the Democratic Party during the Obama years despite voters' affinity for him, personally (lost majorities in both houses of Congress, lost state legislative seats, lost governorships). In that atmosphere, a person running for Obama's third term was facing an uphill fight...even against the worst and most unqualified candidate in the history of the Republic. Bernie knew that and that is why he ran (I've never believed that his personal ambition drove him into the race, nor that his ego kept him in it). I hope we figure this out. Certainly the signs in 2018 indicate that we are.

[Decoy of Fenris]

182. Anecdotal, but almost all the Bernie supporters I know that swapped Trump were Rs anyways.

They were the "Never Clinton" Republicans who saw some semblance of reason and were willing to vote for Sanders. Once he bowed out, those voters were never going to go to Clinton regardless of what Sanders said. Consistently here and in other areas of the Net I hear the same story; "Never Clinton" and "Never Trump"ers all going with the only valid option they saw to them, and once he was knocked out of the running, they just sat out or went with Trump. I only know of one BoBer that sat out the election, personally.

[shanny]

187. Also anecdotal, but that was my experience as well.

[handmade34]

191. people looking for answers...

personal concerns, struggling to get by financially, healthcare concerns, insurmountable student loans, awareness of environmental issues, victims of racism/sexism/etc...and/or just strong ideological beliefs... my research and personal observation shows that people vote on emotions, not so much on policy/pragmatism... the media/marketing is a strong force in affecting opinion... example, suddenly support for Buttigieg has shot up just from a couple tv events...

Bernie supporters are no different than others... Bernie supporters "who would not have voted for Hillary regardless" didn't have to vote for Trump... but 12% did... another approx. 10% voted for "someone else" and a few other percentage didn't vote...

I vividly remember the dissatisfaction with Obama (even here on DU) early on... that was when pragmatism, common sense and unity would have helped... I remember responding to any number of unhappy people on this site towards the 2010 election saying, "John Boehner"... Democrats not entirely happy with Obama and not voting (or making a protest vote) gave us a Republican majority and the inability to get many of Obama's positive ideas/policies through... so yes, I hope we can figure this out...


I like Bernie, I believe in his ideology... I think the General, though, will be difficult if he wins the Primaries and I think many of the people that support Bernie do not understand the need for pragmatism at times and the give and take of living in a complex society

[LiberalLovinLug]

205. "the need for pragmatism at times and the give and take of living in a complex society"

See that is the quandary that intelligent, moderate, pragmatic D voters are in. We all, for the most part, would vote Democratic no matter who wins. And may well understand that successful inclusive politics involves pragmatism. But if we've learned anything its that its all about winning over that mushy middle. Those confused Independents, or Undecided. They may need "impossible" promises, and firey sloganeering. We have to stop giving the people what WE think they should have, and start to look around at the political landscape and give them what THEY want, or at least close to it. If the zietgeist of the times is distrust of the political established status quo, and support of whomever looks to shake things up, whether it be from the right or the left, why not the one representing the left? For a @#$%$#@ change?

[Kentonio]

311. I'd probably agree if the head to head polling vs Trump showed him struggling.

But it doesn't. The RCP average has Sanders +10.4 against Trump and Biden at +7.7.

So why are people coming to this idea that Sanders would struggle in the general but Biden would be a safe bet, when the polling does not support that hypothesis?

[Cha]

39. Thank you for that reality Check!

[BeyondGeography]

42. She didn't win either

I voted for her twice. Primary and GE (for you lurking wingnuts). Between the two candidates I did think she was better equipped to win and govern, but she lost and it wasn’t Bernie’s fault.

What’s pretty clear to me is too many Democrats suffer from a dual affliction; they haven’t gotten over 2016 and they blame Bernie. It’s way off the mark and it’s holding the whole party back.

[betsuni]

51. Bernie is the one still running against Hillary.

Still talking about superdelegates, that rigging nonsense.

[Cha]

69. Yeah, you'd think that would

be obvious to anyone paying attention on this board.

Thank You, betsuni

[Cha]

62. BS is the one who's Divisive.. it started

right after the rigging in of trump.

He went on cnn calling the Democratic Party "elite" and how "humiliated" he was. Making it all about himself.

We're Not "being held back". The Democratic Party did great in the 2018 Midterms.. Dems all over the country turned 45 Red seats to BlueWave. The Democrats did that.

The House is doing an amazing job fighting on the Front Lines for us.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

79. Ding! Ding! Ding!!!... We hava winner!!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[JudyM]

90. It certainly is. Apparently they can't stop their very sick blame obsession.

[workinclasszero]

121. I did the same

And I agree with your conclusions.

[shanny]

194. Spot on.

[Autumn]

61. She lost the electoral vote. That's the only one that counts. nt

[BlueFlorida]

76. Yes ... in WIsconsin and Michigan

Two states poisoned by Bernie's lieutenants like Sirota, Brihana Gray and Nina Turner.

[Autumn]

99. Those people campaigned for Bernie in those states?

That dog don't hunt.

Michigan

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/michigan-hillary-clinton-trump-232547

Turn that bus around, the Clinton team ordered SEIU. Those volunteers needed to stay in Iowa to fool Donald Trump into competing there, not drive to Michigan, where the Democrat’s models projected a 5-point win through the morning of Election Day.

Michigan organizers were shocked. It was the latest case of Brooklyn ignoring on-the-ground intel and pleas for help in a race that they felt slipping away at the end.

“They believed they were more experienced, which they were. They believed they were smarter, which they weren’t,” said Donnie Fowler, who was consulting for the Democratic National Committee during the final months of the campaign. “They believed they had better information, which they didn’t.”

Flip Michigan and leave the rest of the map, and Trump is still president-elect. But to people who worked in that state and others, how Clinton won the popular vote by 2.8 million votes and lost by 100,000 in states that could have made her president has everything to do with what happened in Michigan. Trump won the state despite getting 30,000 fewer votes than George W. Bush did when he lost it in 2004.

Wisconsin

https://onmilwaukee.com/buzz/articles/how-hillary-lost-wisconsin.html

Hillary Clinton lost Wisconsin twice in one year. Bernie Sanders bested her during the April 5 presidential primary election and Trump beat her on Nov. 8. And how the Clinton campaign responded to the first loss inevitably led to the second.

During the last 100 days of the presidential contest, she was relatively absent. In just over 90 days, Donald Trump made 133 visits to battleground states while Mrs. Clinton made just 87 – including zero trips to Wisconsin. Her TV commercial spending in Wisconsin was laughable, her radio ads were sparse and her print media buys were scant. Whether it's life itself or the election of our lifetime, you can't win if you don't show up.

The Democrats lost the state by a total of 27,257 votes. Russ Feingold, who had led in the polls for a full calendar year, also lost to incumbent Republican Senator Ron Johnson.

This catastrophe, a Clinton clinic on cutting campaign corners, culminated in Wisconsin returning to red state status for the first time since 1984. From 1900 to the present, Wisconsin voters selected the winning presidential candidate 77% of the time. 2016 would prove no exception.

[BlueWI]

260. ?

I live in Wisconsin.

I don't recall David Sirota and Nina Turner poisoning anyone.

If you look at the vote talks in WI in 2016 compared to 2012, the Greens picked up about 24K votes, and Libertarians picked up about 80,000. There's a good case to be made that Libertarians hurt Trump more than Greens hurt Clinton.

Time to leave excuses and scapegoats behind and win the critical 2020 election through a stellar campaign and tireless organizing, no matter who the nominee is. We will face opposition - every candidate. Time to play offense and define who we are as a party, and win!

[BlueFlorida]

269. hmmmmm

Interesting to see some people here defending David Sirota and his shenanigans.

[BlueWI]

271. I posted election numbers from 2016

to bring the focus back to actual votes and paths to win in the state that I live in, volunteer in, and advocate personally for change in.

So what do those numbers say to you? One more total. The vote for the Democratic ticket in WI declined by 200K in 2016, way more than the number of Green or Libertarian voters. Trump's vote total in 2016 was 2K above Romney's in 2012, pretty much static. Voter suppression and voter apathy combined to doom us in 2016. It's up to the campaign and all of us to counter both of those challenges.

The endless search for scapegoats and inadvisably ignoring voting patterns costs us elections. Not David Sirota. Winning this election is going to take a stellar organizing effort and campaign, not a hyperfocus on a tiny number of votes and figures like Sirota whose stature is not nearly what you suggest.

[BlueFlorida]

273. And you don't think David Sirota and Nina Turner's

derogatory articles and overt support for Jill Stein contribute to voter apathy or Clinton hate?

In Michigan, 90,000 Democratic ballots were cast that left the POTUS selection BLANK. Don't you think the hatred whipped up against Hillary by the likes of David Sirota contributed to it?

She lost MI by 12,000 votes and 90,000 Democrats chose not to vote for her.

Similar numbers in Wisconsin and PA.

[BlueWI]

275. How many Democrats voted for Trump?

There are always outlier voters for 3rd parties, Wallace in 68, Anderson in 80, Perot in 92, Nader in 2000. They are a regular feature of American politics, and they are attractive to some voters. I don't see that changing.

On the other hand, it is possible to strategize to maximize your base voters and unlikely voters such as young voters. That's where Obama succeeded, although Michigan was clearly a lost opportunity like Wisconsin - a state with large urban black populations, voter suppression, and lots of Libertarian-like independents. The outreach to Michigan should have started in 2013, when Detroit defaulted, and the Obama administration didn't take a bold and empathic public stance. They didn't lean into the issues troubling a majority black city and a foundation of support for the Clinton ticket. Sure, it's nice to make a campaign stop in Flint, but it can't compensate for virtual silence on the Detroit bankruptcy.

We elevate a few cranks like Sirota to kingmaker stature. If your presence and ground game is in place, a few renegade Greens, whose will never be 100% Democratic, will not prevent you from winning.

[BlueFlorida]

278. Some are hell bent on pointing out dust mites

while ignoring the elephant in the room.

I can't help if they are.

[Kentonio]

312. Exactly.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

83. BINGO!!! Bernie will not let that happen again... he'll be relentless out on the campaign trail...

as we've already seen. Hell, not even a shower door could stop Bernie... what makes anyone think the peeResident can?!


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[workinclasszero]

124. Damn right!

50 state strategy, no blue state tours only, this is a national election!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

132. Isn't it great to have a candidate who not only knows what it takes to win...

but, also has the determination and stamina to carry out the plan?!


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[workinclasszero]

136. It's downright awesome!

Bernie even went into the Fox den last night and came out a winner too!

[CentralMass]

111. It's a nice argument on paper but the reality of it us tha the orange anus occupies the white house.

Last edited Tue Apr 16, 2019, 10:51 PM - Edit history (2)

[ehrnst]

12. Agonizing? Of course Jonathan Martin would like to think so. He's quite the Bernie cheerleader

[Cha]

20. It figures.. in that divisive language..

Big Tell.

[ehrnst]

43. His twitter account pretty much gushes. (nt)

[BlueFlorida]

77. Jonathan Martin needs pom poms

for the extra effect.

[MontanaFarmer]

14. To me, it depends on 2 things.

The first is whether very many of these candidates stay in until Iowa. If the field gets winnowed before or right after Iowa, that helps. Second, I don't think the map is actually good for him at all after new Hampshire, but could he build momentum if he won the first 2? I'm with some others on this, I actually don't think so, but it's certainly possible. The more likely scenario is that he holds enough delegates to cause problems at the convention. He'd never do that, though...

[True Blue American]

21. According to CNN

Biden is still ahead in Iowa. Still 27% to 19%.

[MontanaFarmer]

80. Yep I saw that

and I don't necessarily think Bernie will win it, but I didn't think so last time either and although he didn't, he came close. Tied in delegates IIRC. I think the field will be able to blunt his momentum across the Sun Belt and California, and probably deny him enough delegates to win the nomination right there. The question with him, and his supporters, is the end game. If he has no path to the nomination, what will the exit look like this time? I hope he isn't our nominee, because I think he loses to Trump, but I will support him if he is, of course. Long way to go.

[RandiFan1290]

19. I welcome their hatred. nt

[True Blue American]

25. That Motto

Sounds familiar but FDR was referring to Republicans, not fellow Democrats!

[Cha]

34. Exactly, True Blue.

[workinclasszero]

27. Bingo!

[Cha]

30. BS is too Divisive.

[WeekiWater]

45. That's what many of us know.

His base passionately hates progressives and progress. Very bold comment. I see few as willing to be as open about it as you are. It was a common theme promoted by HA Goodman.

[shanny]

195. ....

best laugh of the day, thank you!

[ehrnst]

49. You would need to invent it first. Treating him like any other career politician isn't "hatred."

It's called politics.

However, his fans who swarm anyone who dares dissent aren't doing their Senator any favors in popularity.

[dalton99a]

81. +1.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

98. Me too...it's a sign we're winning!! I'd be a lot more worried if they were IGNORING Bernie!!

So many other candidates like that are obviously envious of Bernie's position.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

107. So if people disagree with Bernie, it's because they're "envious" and not because they have a point?

Is that like teachers telling little girls that if a boy is pulling their hair, it means the boy likes them?

Or when a bully says that kids who call him out are just "jealous" of his athletic ability?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

119. LOL, you know darn well that's NOT what I said... not even CLOSE!! Good try though!!

Keep practicing those strawman arguments... they need a little work!!


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

137. Not going to answer the question then?

"If people disagree with Bernie, it's because they're "envious" and not because they have a point?"

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

174. I must've struck a nerve... just show me where I actually said what's stated in your false argument

and I'll GLADLY answer your question. You know you can't, but, if you do wanna try, I just ask that you please use actual QUOTES of mine and PLAIN ENGLISH to compare what I ACTUALLY said to what you're PRETENDING I said.

But, if you're not up to the challenge and, instead, you wanna change the subject, or introduce another "strawman argument" referring to something I never said and then boldly "knock it down" and complain I won't answer a question based on a false premise, go right ahead and keep struggling.

Or, better yet, just admit you were wrong about what I said and apologize... I'll accept your apology and we can move on.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

201. Here you go:

You're welcome.


I assume an answer isn't forthcoming?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

270. I think I see the problem ehrnst... you did quote me correctly, so, yes, thanks for that...

though you did misinterpret what I said. I assume there wasn't anything nefarious involved in that, but rather, was a simple misunderstanding on your part, so, perhaps with this straight forward explaination, you'll see my point.

If not, that's okay too... but, you do seem reasonable (at times, haha!) and, hopefully, you'll get what I'm saying and see why your question - "So if people disagree with Bernie, it's because they're 'envious' and not because they have a point?" - does not make sense to me.

That's because I never said, or even so much as implied, that people who disagree with Bernie do so because they are envious of him. That wasn't the point of my post at all. Of course, they COULD be envious, I suppose, and certainly not ALL who disagree do so because of that, and, absolutely, could have a legitimate point of disagreement. That's simple common sense and, obviously, depends on the people involved and the circumstances.

Anyway, I started off, in good faith, by answering your question right up front, even though it has nothing to do with what I was actually saying... my hope in doing so is that you will now extend me the same courtesy and, in good faith, come to realize what I ACTUALLY said was that the OTHER CANDIDATES who are being IGNORED, i.e., NOT being incessantly attacked and criticized by the likes of David Brock and other Democrats, are envious of Bernie because of the position he is in... here, again, is the quote you accurately copied:

"it's a sign we're winning!! I'd be a lot more worried if they were IGNORING Bernie!! So many other candidates like that are obviously envious of Bernie's position."

The people disagreeing with Bernie, the "THEY" in that quote, are David Brock and other Democrats set on stopping Bernie for all the reasons THEY disagree with him (see the original OP) - notice I'm NOT saying they are envious of Bernie to explain their disagreement - and I simply noted that I'd be MORE worried if they were IGNORING him. The reasoning is simple... because then Bernie would be irrelevant and not worthy of their negative attention. But, as I said, "it's a sign Bernie's winning," that they're NOT ignoring him and, instead, giving him flak, which is why I'm LESS worried, not MORE worried. Makes perfectly good sense.

It then also makes perfect sense that the "OTHER CANDIDATES," meaning candidates OTHER than BERNIE, who ARE "like that..." - i.e., currently being IGNORED, because they're NOT winning - "are obviously envious of Bernie's position," precisely because he IS winning.

So ehrnst, that's why I never said, as reflected in your question, that "people" who disagreed with Bernie did so only because they were in envious of him and couldn't have a point... no, rather, I said that other candidates are envious because they're not in the same position as Bernie, of catching flak, which, to me at least, is a sign that he is winning.

Perhaps, you can "give an inch" and acknowledge what I was actually saying... perhaps not, in which case, there's nothing more I can say or do that will assist you. Whatever you do, I simply ask that you refrain from putting words in my mouth to set up an argument that I'm not making. I'm sure you, being a fair-minded person, would not appreciate that either.

All the best...

[workinclasszero]

127. Good point I guess

"When you are taking fire, it means you are over the target."

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

159. You mean "EXCELLENT point"... hahaha!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Gothmog]

287. If sanders has less than 30%, he will not be the nominee

Even Mondale got more support and he lost

Link to tweet

?s=20

[SidDithers]

28. Inevitable Bernie? Is this a coronation?...

Sid

[ehrnst]

44. Sounds like it, doesn't it?

[betsuni]

93. Coronation, anointed, crowned, King.

RIGGED111111!!!!!!

[ehrnst]

110. I understand that He "annointed" Democratic policies and "brought them to the masses."

[stonecutter357]

29. lol Agonizing !

[Funtatlaguy]

32. Just STOP 🛑 this sh*t now, please.

We can not cannibalize.
There should be no efforts to try to block any candidate.
Trumps ONLY path to victory this time is for the Dems to come out of our convention divided.

Work like hell in the primaries for whomever excites you the most.
But vow to do the same for our nominee once Labor Day 2020 rolls around.
The alternative is having 4 more years of Trump and further damaging our nation.

[elleng]

228. YES.

Thank you.

(Sorry or not that I got here late.)

[WeekiWater]

35. I'm glad they are talking behind the scene.

We need to win. A certain segment seems to be confused each time they read about coalitions.

[watoos]

38. People who bash Bernie are whistling past the graveyard,

Have you seen who is ahead in raising money?

Have you seen how many people have contributed to Bernie's campaign? I think it's over 500k, that is an unheard of number, none of the other candidates are close to that number.

I haven't even made up my mind who I am voting for, but I know better than to bash any of our candidates, especially one who inspires new voters to come out, who inspires the millennials to vote. Bash Bernie at the peril of our losing the young voters.

[ehrnst]

48. I find it disturbing when any critique or dissent that any other career politician would

expect to get is "AN ATTACK!!" or "BASHING" when it comes to Senator Sanders.

[Amimnoch]

46. Totally agree with them. ANY Democratic Party member but BS or bust. -nt

[Renew Deal]

47. He will not be the nominee

It’s still very early and the names at the top are the best known ones. Just give it a little time.

[NurseJackie]

57. He can't even get AA and POC to attend a rally at a BLACK church in a MAJORITY BLACK city.

Last edited Tue Apr 16, 2019, 10:13 AM - Edit history (1)

He can't even get AA and POC to attend a rally at a BLACK church in a MAJORITY BLACK city.

His rally in North Charleston, SC had so LITTLE ethnic diversity that it looked like he could have been somewhere Vermont. In fact, based on the statistics, the demographics at that rally was even whiter than Vermont.

It's obvious that the AA and POC community are rejecting BS and the BS campaign. BS just doesn't connect with that community. The BS message just isn't resonating.

All I'm saying is, that without the AA vote, BS doesn't stand a chance.

[CentralMass]

112. Why are you a Sanders supporter ?

[NurseJackie]

116. Actually, this isn't about me.

Do you have any comments about what I wrote?

[TCJ70]

117. Hmmmm...

...that’s one of the LAST people I would ever expect to have that as their selection.

[NurseJackie]

123. This isn't about me. Any comments about my post? How do you feel about...

This isn't about me. Any comments about my post? How do you feel about the fact that BS can't connect with the AA community and that AA and other POC are clearly rejecting his message?

Does it tell you anything to see BS have a rally in an historically BLACK CHURCH that's in a BLACK NEIGHBORHOOD in a MAJORITY BLACK CITY (North Charleston, SC) but for some reason the demographics of those who attended were whiter than Vermont's demographics.

What does that say to you?

[TCJ70]

126. The fact that you, in particular, are posting around here with Sanders as your choice...

...shows that you aren’t posting in good faith. I’m not into division...so good luck with your act.

For anyone seeing a potential alert on this...the poster in question is NurseJackie.

[NurseJackie]

129. So... nothing, huh?

So... nothing, huh? I asked a very simple and direct question regarding the lack of support the BS has among AA and other POC which has been ignored. Instead, the response is to try and make it about me.

Oh well. Adios!

[vsrazdem]

154. Bernie has more support than Kamala Harris among African Americans

https://theintercept.com/2019/03/06/bernie-sanders-black-voters-2020/

[NurseJackie]

178. Name-recognition is meaningless compared to turnout. Fact of the matter is...

Name-recognition is meaningless compared to turnout. Fact of the matter is that the BS rally in an historically BLACK CHURCH, located in a BLACK NEIGHBORHOOD, inside a MAJORITY BLACK city ended up with a demographics that were even whiter than Vermont.

The BS campaign and the BS message isn't connecting with POC and the AA community. There he was RIGHT AMONG THEM in a majority AA city, and he got snubbed. That says a lot.

[vsrazdem]

179. Oh, sorry, I thought you wanted facts.

[NurseJackie]

186. Yes, please let me know when you have some to share.

Yeah, The Intercept... sheesh!

[vsrazdem]

197. Sorry you don't like those facts.

https://www.vox.com/2019/3/7/18216899/bernie-sanders-bro-base-polling-2020-president


“We were criticized for being too white; that was a correct criticism,” Sanders said on the Breakfast Club radio show in March. “We were criticized for being too male; that was a correct criticism. That’s going to change.”

It’s starting to. An analysis of recent polls from November of 2018 to March 2019 shows Sanders is more popular with people of color than white people, and women like Sanders as much as men do, if not more. He leads every other possible 2020 contender with Latino voters and lags behind only Joe Biden — who hasn’t announced a bid yet — with African-American voters. Sanders’ polling numbers with black voters are double that of Sen. Kamala Harris (D-CA), according to a March Morning Consult poll.

[NurseJackie]

200. Then there was something about how people who refused to vote someone because of their skin color...

Then there was something about how people who refused to vote someone because of their skin color weren't being racist... or something. Nobody is going to win over the AA and POC communities saying things like that.

It's little wonder that a BS rally in a BLACK CHURCH, in a BLACK NEIGHBORHOOD, in a MAJORITY BLACK CITY ended up being statistically LESS DIVERSE than his home state of Vermont.

Sorry you don't like those facts.

I guess I just have higher standards. I live in the real world.

Also see: https://www.democraticunderground.com/128770950#post184

[vsrazdem]

206. I will no longer respond to trolls who pretend to be Bernie supportors and bash him every

chance they get.

[NurseJackie]

211. So, are you saying that it's untrue? Did he not say that?

I will no longer respond to trolls who pretend to be Bernie supportors and bash him every chance they get.

I have not attacked you. I have not called you names. Why do you do that to me? That's not very nice.

With regard to my previous post... So, are you saying that it's untrue? Did he not say that? Are you refuting that, or just attacking me for no reason at all.

[namahage]

184. Totally unbiased source, that Intercept.

And funny how they won’t show their work on that—Morning Consult did not present their numbers, just that they gave supplementary data to the Intercept.

Which, of course, they do not provide.

So we’re just supposed to take their word for it? I can see why some would, particularly if it confirms their biases.

[ehrnst]

217. The Democratic Party hating Intercept...

You won't respond to "trolls who bash Bernie" but you'll post links to a Democratic party bashing publication?

Are you sure you're on the right board? There are others where you would be much happier.

[vsrazdem]

218. This was a morning consult poll.

[ehrnst]

221. That was a link to an Intercept spin, not a link to the Morning Consult poll.

Look at your post if you don't believe me.

This is a link to the Morning Consult Poll:

https://morningconsult.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Political-Intelligence-3.5.19.pdf

The Intercept is known for cherry picking facts in their spins to make Democrats look worse, and Bernie look better.

Is that clearer?

[NurseJackie]

219. I know, right? What's next... HA Goodman too?

[rzemanfl]

135. Bookmarking. n/t

[ehrnst]

274. ....

[vsrazdem]

153. Comment

THREE WEEKS AFTER launching his presidential campaign, Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders is leading all other announced candidates in support from black voters, a new poll finds. The only potential candidate who polled better with African-Americans than Sanders, according to the poll by Morning Consult, is former Vice President Joe Biden, who has not announced a campaign.

[George II]

148. As my older brother used to ask when I'd ask a question similar to that, "Are you writing a book?"

[ehrnst]

114. +1000.

[rzemanfl]

138. Isn't the POS community entirely Repuke?

[NurseJackie]

142. Thanks...

typo. Fixed it.

[democratisphere]

54. Baloney.

Ain't even breaking a sweat. Joe Biden will deliver US from the most evil creature.

[Amimnoch]

63. Hopefully he delivers us from both of them.

Clean the clock on the spoiler one in the primaries, then remove the main one in the GE.

[Amimnoch]

60. PROUDLY one of them. Anyone BUT BS or bust. -nt.

[BlueFlorida]

70. hahaha

Sanders has less chance of becoming the nominee than that of a bobcat becoming vegan.

[rgbecker]

91. From the 2020 Playbill: Know your actors.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Brock

[betsuni]

96. David Brock is a Democrat.

Like Elizabeth Warren, he used to be Republican. What is your point? Have you read his book "Blinded by the Right"?

[rgbecker]

109. Haven't read his books. Debating how to best spend my time.

Thought a good way to learn about some of the people mentioned on the DU would be to show the way to information about them. If you don't want to read it, fine. No "point". Just adding to the discussion.

Did you like the book? Do you suggest I read it, or one of the others. There are a lot of books out there to choose from and not nearly enough time to read them all.

Thanks for any suggestions.

Interesting that Hillary, like me, was raised by Goldwater republicans. It's like Saul on the road to Damascus!

Seems the Democratic party is filled with the converted.

[R B Garr]

163. Only Democrats who had no Republican parents are pure enough!

Spread the word! "raised by Goldwater republicans"

[Autumn]

100. I do not forget and I am not in the business of forgiveness.

He may have become a Dem but I will never trust him.

[namahage]

131. And I suspect the feelings are mutual

Regarding people who are Dems only when it suits their purposes.

[Autumn]

156. I don't remember Bernie going after Bill Clinton, one of the best presidents of my lifetime, if not

the best the way Brock and his good friends did. YMMV.

[workinclasszero]

130. Wow!

I did not know this.....

Brock began his career as a right-wing investigative reporter during the 1990s. He wrote the book The Real Anita Hill and the Troopergate story, which led to Paula Jones filing a lawsuit against Bill Clinton.

Thanks for the link!

[Hassin Bin Sober]

140. He apologized to Sanders and his supporters in an apparent job application open letter

It sounds like Bernie told him to piss off so now Brock is up to his old tricks

Good. Because Brock should never be within a hundred miles of any campaign on our side.

Clinton Super-PAC Leader David Brock Apologizes to Bernie and His Supporters and Seeks Alliance

At times during the Democratic primary, I was criticized for being too aggressive in my support for Secretary Clinton — and rightly so. Looking back, I recognize that there were a few moments when my drive to put Hillary in the White House led me to take too stiff a jab. I own up to that, I regret it, and I apologize to you and your supporters for it.

snip

Senator Sanders: your candidacy electrified millions. From students to working class families, you inspired Americans to be more engaged in the political process.

Throughout your life of advocacy and career in public service, you have been a leader on some of the same issues to which I’ve devoted my professional life. You were one of the first to identify and call for media reform. That leadership has included calling out the corporate media for refusing to cover climate change, something my organization Media Matters has extensively exposed.

We need you to continue to be the voice of reason in a world that has been spun out of control.

You have consistently devoted yourself to ensuring a fair and free press. In your House days, I remember you being one of very few to attend a Congressional hearing about the fairness doctrine where, despite a mostly empty room, you posed thoughtful and penetrating questions. You introduced a bill to restore that doctrine, to guard against wildly biased and inaccurate media outlets. And how prescient that concern was. In this past election, we saw the media abdicate its vital public mission, cynically fueling Trump’s candidacy for money and ratings.

We need you to continue holding the corporate media’s feet to the fire.

One of the signature issues of your campaign was getting money out of politics. Even though I run a SuperPAC, I am with you on this.

Senator Sanders, we need to be bold and united. Without fear or hesitation, we must oppose Trump. We must stand up for and defend our shared values.

The progressive movement is strong and growing, thanks in large part to your candidacy, Senator Sanders, which electrified so many voters. The bedrock American values you championed — of pluralism, equality, and opportunity — are ones I share. And I hope that we can be partners in the fight ahead.

[workinclasszero]

141. "Because Brock should never be within a hundred miles of any campaign on our side."

Totally agree with that!

[Mike Nelson]

105. Yikes!

… Is Bernie this year's Hillary?

[AlexSFCA]

120. BS is the presumptive nominee

I’m surprised DU is in such denial about this simple fact. Let’s look at some basic info: BS is the most popular senator in America, he has the most loyal built-in base, he has enormous fundraising advantage. No one can even compete in the primaries without adopting many if not most of his policy proposals. He has no loyalty to any party and will stop at nothinng to get the nomination. There is also common misconception about his electability. He is much, much more electable than trump and he ONLY needs WI, MI and PA where he remains very popular even among many of trump voters. Trump can’t effectively campaign against him cause they share voters in critical states.

[NurseJackie]

125. No he's not.

BS is the most popular senator in America,

No he's not.

[AlexSFCA]

128. what's your source

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/senate/424806-poll-sanders-most-popular-senator-flake-least%3famp

Polls says he is the most popular senator in America for 11th time. Many major news outlets report.

[namahage]

296. That's like saying SPAM is the most popular food in the US

because of its overwhelming popularity among Hawaiian people.

[namahage]

134. "He has no loyalty to any party

and will stop at nothing to get the nomination.”

Not sure this is exactly something you want to emphasize, no matter how much of a “fact” you say it is...

[MrsCoffee]

157. Lol!

I needed something funny to start my day!

It’s even funnier that his supporters actually believe this. AGAIN!1!!

[AlexSFCA]

165. I don't support him, nor do I find it funny

will check in 6 months. The denial of obvious is odd though.

[ucrdem]

133. Only in Sandiland

Where lollipops grow on trees . . .

[Politicub]

139. If Bernie wasn't the front runner, they would be agonizing over someone else

I’m not agonizing over it.

No one can wave a magic wand and make someone’s notoriety - good or bad - vanish into thin air. If anything, this is a wake up call for people who are running behind to work harder.

[workinclasszero]

143. For some reason

It seems that many candidates thought they would steamroll right on past Bernie Sanders who garnered millions of democratic votes in 2016 and was the runner up and a very popular political figure.

They made a big mistake.

[aidbo]

147. Peter Daou, one of Bernie's harshest critics in 2015/6 has come over.

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[samnsara]

151. I didnt support him then and im not supporting him now but where the hell are these

..stop sanders ppl? i know of none. I have no bernie friends but we all have no problems with him running. Is this another urban legend?

[workinclasszero]

155. Direct quote from the NYT...

“There’s a growing realization that Sanders could end up winning this thing, or certainly that he stays in so long that he damages the actual winner,” said David Brock, the liberal organizer, who said he has had discussions with other operatives about an anti-Sanders campaign and believes it should commence “sooner rather than later.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/16/us/politics/bernie-sanders-democratic-party.html

I don't know any personally but according to this story from the NY Times today, its real.

[MrsCoffee]

158. Great point about the damage he does.

Big reason so many are turned off by Bernie. He doesn’t stand a chance in the primaries. I’m hoping he is out early before he goes all scorched earth again.

[R B Garr]

170. Exactly. And now Brock is suddenly a genius and totally believable if he says something

that is supposed to benefit Sanders in any way. Hilarious.

[Politicub]

168. The party needs to stay out of it and allow the primaries to unfold.

I say this as a yellow-dog Democrat.

These “operatives” having “discussions” are scheming to sow chaos.

I hope it was merely David Brock’s love of publicity that spawned the story and that he’s only seeking attention.

[workinclasszero]

173. I totally agree

Every candidate should be allowed their chance to win the nomination with absolutely no interference whatsoever!

And then all democrats back the winner nominee 100% in the general!

Is that not the way it's supposed to work?

This story from the NYT suggests that there is another way and that is not right!

[IronLionZion]

162. See how well that worked out for the Never Trump movement

How about candidates campaign and voters can vote for whoever they want without interference?

[Hortensis]

198. That is the glory AND the danger of democracy.

Extremism is rising on both right and left, and populist movements are threatening our own democracy, not just others far away.

How about some indulge what they wish in the primary and then we all rally around our nominee in the general?

Even with Russia's support Sanders won't win the primary -- unless Trump collapses somehow and those of his supporters who are legally able move to Sanders as their alternative. But Trump isn't going to collapse, and his supporters won't have to decide between Pence and Sanders even if Pence were moved up.

However, what's appallingly possible is that, with elections so close, Sanders' angry supporters could throw America to the Republicans, and that must not happen.

[Tiggeroshii]

226. Do we still have superdelegates?

That alone will change the playIng field substantially.

[Gothmog]

285. After first ballot super delegates will step in

[NewJeffCT]

230. Most people didn't take me seriously when I posted this back in January

Saying that Sanders had a good shot at winning the nomination based on him keeping 75% or 50% of his vote from 2016.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211736440#post148

I'm not a Sanders supporter at all, but I don't see much stopping him if Biden declines to run - the other candidates are going to divide up the Clinton vote too much for him not to be a serious contender.

[LanternWaste]

231. "It's his turn. He's the anointed one!!!"

I recall that chicken-shit being peddled a few years ago. I suppose the ganders believe it's only good for geese.

[KayF]

242. if they think "he could end up winning this thing"

are they concerned about "weakening" him, in case it's him vs. Trump? Or does it not work in that direction?

[machI]

245. Why do they even allow us to vote? It seems so unnecessary.

I am so glad the ultra-smart elites are on the job telling me who I can't vote for.

All this time I thought it was the rank and file voters who chose the candidate they wanted to represent them. Now I can just relax and let people who are way more intelligent than I am discount my choice and substitute the better one for all of us.

[Cary]

255. Why do this?

Pfeh.

[Gothmog]

281. Dave Weigel-Bernieworld musing that they could get nom w 30 percent of vote.

Link to tweet

[Hassin Bin Sober]

288. Between this guy and his "Right Now" column and Jennifer Rubin and her "RightTurn" column

Do you ever post opinions of actual liberals or Democrats?

David Weigel

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Weigel

Weigel then took a job writing the "Right Now" column on The Washington Post website focusing on aspects of the conservative movement

[Gothmog]

289. So sanders want to repeat 1984?

Even Mondale got more support than sanders

Link to tweet

?s=20

[Hassin Bin Sober]

290. That lobster dude is an unrepentant sexist pig. Why do you follow him?

Two conservative columnists and some random dude on twitter who tells women on twitter to

“go f*ck yourself with conk uygur’s d*ck”


3 for 3







<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Here is his most notable. There are plenty examples though. <a href="https://t.co/7woZ49wcYc">pic.twitter.com/7woZ49wcYc</a></p>— Star Stuff (@Statistar30) <a href="

Link to tweet

?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 25, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>








<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">lol the unbelievable shamelessness of these people lecturing anyone on 'toxic masculinity' or whatever the fuck <a href="https://t.co/ciweREXtxa">pic.twitter.com/ciweREXtxa</a></p>— my neon guy shack (@sheckyyoungman) <a href="

Link to tweet

?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 25, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Gothmog]

291. How is sanders going to get more than 30% of the Democratic vote in the real world?

If Biden drops out, his support will not go to sanders in the real world

[Trenzalore]

292. I don't believe Bernie has a path to the nomination

I've been wrong before but when the other candidate isn't Hillary Clinton I believe he has a ceiling of 30%.

[Autumn]

307. David Brock

I remember his "honesty and integrity" from when President Bill Clinton was in office. I remember Anita Hill, a gracious Black woman being called "a little bit nutty and a little bit slutty' by Brock, one of the nicer things he said about her. If he doesn't like someone, that's a big plus AFAIC

[Blue_Tires]

308. The political media has been absolutely erect for another intra-party Civil War

but yes, let's just keep on playing their game like the useful idiots we are....

[Gothmog]

309. Nate Silver- Sanders Can Win, But He Isn't Polling Like A Favorite

Nate thinks that it is possible for sander to win the nomination but this is not likely. sanders is not going to be the nominee of the party. sanders thinks that getting 30% of the primary vote is sufficient which means taking the fight to the contested convention. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/bernie-sanders-can-win-but-he-isnt-polling-like-a-favorite/

Historically, though, candidates who are polling at only about 20 percent nationally despite the near-universal name recognition that Sanders enjoys don’t have a great track record. From our research on the history of past primary polls, I found 15 candidates from past nomination processes who, like Sanders, (i) polled at an average of between 15 percent and 25 percent4 in national polls in the first six months of the year before the Iowa caucuses5 and (ii) who had high or very high name recognition.6.....

Achieving a delegate majority could be hard for Sanders
You could also argue that the three winning candidates from the list — Barack Obama and John McCain in 2008 and Mitt Romney in 2012 — aren’t good comparisons for Sanders, especially from a “The Party Decides” standpoint where preferences among party insiders and activists are leading indicators of voter preferences. Romney, for instance, had the backing of the GOP party establishment as a potential consensus choice, whereas Sanders largely lacks it from Democrats. Obama was a rising star, rather than someone left over from a previous cycle, and gained a lot of momentum among party elites as the 2008 cycle wore on, even if they also liked Clinton. McCain, who ran against the party establishment in 2000 but was someone the party could live with in 2008, is in some ways the most favorable comparison for Sanders.

In many respects, however, Sanders is more similar to Jesse Jackson in 1984 and 1988, George Wallace in 1972 and 1976 or Ron Paul in 2012, candidates who represented important constituencies within their respective parties but who didn’t have an obvious way to unite the rest of the party behind them or to win a delegate majority.

At times, Sanders’s strategists actually seem to be leaning into the strategy of being a factional candidate. The Sanders campaign may have all kinds of reasons to feel aggrieved by how the party establishment has treated it, especially when it reads articles like the one in The New York Times that suggest the establishment is out to get it again! Nonetheless, the campaign hasn’t sought to mend fences when conflicts have arisen this year. Instead, Sanders aides told The Atlantic’s Edward-Isaac Dovere that they think they can win the nomination with as little as a 30 percent plurality of delegates. That’s a risky strategy since it would necessarily entail a contested convention, where party insiders would play an outsized role. Nor would Sanders, a 77-year-old white man, reflect the various constituencies of the Democratic Party (and the demographics of the delegates themselves) as well as someone like Harris might.

sanders will not be the nominee if sanders only gets 30% of the primary vote. There are too many real democrats who have long memories and who will not forgive or forget. If this gets to a floor fight, the delegates for the other candidates will not support sanders and the super delegates will get to break any deadlocks after the first ballot.

[Gothmog]

310. Bernie is hoping for a brokered convention.

Link to tweet