Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumBernie Sanders and the Myth of the 1 Percent
The very rich are richer than people imagine.By Paul Krugman
A peculiar chapter in the 2020 presidential race ended Monday, when Bernie Sanders, after months of foot-dragging, finally released his tax returns. The odd thing was that the returns appear to be perfectly innocuous. So what was all that about?
The answer seems to be that Sanders got a lot of book royalties after the 2016 campaign, and was afraid that revealing this fact would produce headlines mocking him for now being part of the 1 Percent. Indeed, some journalists did try to make his income an issue.
This line of attack is, however, deeply stupid. Politicians who support policies that would raise their own taxes and strengthen a social safety net theyre unlikely to need arent being hypocrites; if anything, theyre demonstrating their civic virtue.
But failure to understand what hypocrisy means isnt the only way our discourse about politics and inequality goes off the rails. The catchphrase the 1 Percent has also become a problem, obscuring the nature of class in 21st-century America.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/18/opinion/bernie-sanders-tax.html
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)I think the point of contention may be if he adjusted his stump speech, but I dont actually know.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
EndGOPPropaganda
(1,117 posts)Every billionaire is a policy failure.
But all of us ahould aspire to being millionaires if we work hard and get lucky.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
BlueFlorida
(1,532 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
janterry
(4,429 posts)and her policies leading the democratic party (and its platform)
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
riverine
(516 posts)Bernie feeds this myth and relies on it for political reasons. He needs the myth as a candidate.
The reality is that the 1% is as fractured as the rest of the country. The Tom Steyers, Warren Buffetts, Bill Gates, and George Soros types are hardly an oligarchy.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BlueFlorida
(1,532 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BlueMTexpat
(15,373 posts)And it is why I distrust and do not support Bernie.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Go Vols
(5,902 posts)In a 2015 interview, former President Jimmy Carter stated that the United States is now "an oligarchy with unlimited political bribery", due to the Citizens United ruling, which effectively removed limits on donations to political candidates.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Tom Rinaldo
(22,913 posts)Especially when it rises to the tens of millions level, still far short of being a billionaire. I agree that the super wealthy are not uniform in their values, and that many individuals who fit that description are admirable human beings. But the bell curve starts taking a hard turn right as overall wealth dramatically increases. Agreed though that no one deserves to be negatively profiled based on a demographic - everyone is an individual.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
betsuni
(25,618 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
oldsoftie
(12,599 posts)Or even the 10%. Not gonna happen.
Until someone comes up with a real plan that raises real money, all these programs we want are twisting in the wind. But it wont happen.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Voltaire2
(13,156 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
riverine
(516 posts)We need to cut health care professionals salaries by at least 50% to get to world parity.
Edit to add: No Single-Payer advocate has the courage to suggest the cuts.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JI7
(89,264 posts)of education and a lot of time on the job
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
oldsoftie
(12,599 posts)Next cheapest was the surgeon.
The doctors arent where the big costs are, its the hospitals. The hospital got over 1/2 what i paid for my procedure, and it was outpatient.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
riverine
(516 posts)I read that the entire profit of the US health insurance industry was only $15 billion last year.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
marylandblue
(12,344 posts)I've seen very few breakdowns, and those few aren't detailed or well sourced. I think everyone gets a hefty cut and those who get that money don't want you know.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
riverine
(516 posts)Physician services come next at over $600 billion
https://healthpayerintelligence.com/news/top-10-healthcare-spending-categories-in-the-united-states
Insurance costs are well down the list in the real world (not in the politician world though)
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
marylandblue
(12,344 posts)But even that breakdown is not enough. Hospitals themselves are paying for staff, drugs, and equipment. So how does that all breakdown? If we cut costs, are hospital execs going to lose out or will they lay off nurses? I suspect they will layoff nurses unless we are smart about it.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
oldsoftie
(12,599 posts)The hospital was the hardest one to deal with! What was frustrating was that while they could give me a total bill, but couldnt tell me what it was actually FOR, other than "hospital services". Thats just not detailed enough! Finally they did provide a breakdown and thats when they also discounted the price.
The best was the radiologist; i got 80% off the billed price.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
marylandblue
(12,344 posts)I bet it's a lot more than $15 billion.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
oldsoftie
(12,599 posts)Add it up; it matters.
nearly 1/2 our taxpayers pay zero or less than zero income tax. Yes, they pay Medicare & SS, but those are already existing programs.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Voltaire2
(13,156 posts)Interesting. You do know that all the working poor pay the regressive payroll taxes that fund social programs like social security and medicare, right?
Yeah, TAX THE POOR, that ought to be our campaign theme.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
oldsoftie
(12,599 posts)Nobody wants to, so we'll continue to go further in debt. YOU tell me what the plan is that actually raises enough money?
By immediately saying i want to tax the poor more, you ignore the fact that many who pay no taxes are not poor at all. Plenty of jobs that are very well paying dont report income to the govt. by W2 or 1099. Its up to the individual. Self report. Real estate. Accountants. Lawyers. Mechanics. Builders. Electricians. AC repair. Auto Mechanics. Painters. Etc etc etc. There are lots more if you cared to look. And lots of them make well over 100k a yr.
I'll say it again, if we always point to European countries and their social programs, how can we ignore how they PAY for them?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)reduction, etc., can't be met by just taxing the 1%, 10%, or even the 50%. [I suppose we could take all the wealth from the upper 20% or so, but that would be good for only a year or two at best before the economy tanked.]
That doesn't mean we don't establish or improve those important programs; but, we have to be honest where the funding sources are and develop a comprehensive plan.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
riverine
(516 posts)Because taxes can't be raised enough to cover the GND.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Voltaire2
(13,156 posts)It is only social programs that need austerity. Why is that?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
oldsoftie
(12,599 posts)that even taking EVERYTHING of the top folks would only last a couple years. Its just like anything else; VOLUME. Europe funds its programs by getting something from everyone & our politicians refuse to take us there. And as i've pointed out in numerous other posts, we have hundreds of billions, if not trillions, of dollars that go untaxed every year because of our current system.
Without a sales tax that money will never get taxed. And that where europe gets a good chunk of their money.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
marylandblue
(12,344 posts)Most of the wealth is in the form of assets like real estate and stocks. If you never sell those things you accumulate wealth through increasing prices without any taxable income.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)wealth tax -- and it's a good idea.
But, if I remember, it supposedly would raise $100 Billion annually. That is barely 10% of the annual Deficit, much less enough to pay for healthcare, education, debt reduction, etc.
It's a start, but going to have to tax lower quartiles to accomplish anything.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
oldsoftie
(12,599 posts)Thats where we always end up.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,417 posts)Thanks for the thread Voltaire.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided