Bernie Smeared for Believing Voting is a Right

[rsacamano]

[cwydro]

1. Sorry, but I don't think cretins that would drag

a black man behind a truck or beat up a gay kid and tie him to a fence to die deserve a vote.

Nope.

[bluedigger]

4. How do you feel about women serving time for self defence against their attackers?

Or kids doing life for a tab of LSD?

Should we take away citizenship on a case by case basis?

[cwydro]

8. I've got no sympathy for violent criminals.

Drug offenses are another matter.

Moot point because this will never happen, no matter what Bernie wants.

[bluedigger]

11. Unfortunately, a felony is a felony is a felony.

Emotional responses to heinous acts have nothing to do with justice.

[cwydro]

12. Well, we will just have to agree to disagree.

No matter what he believes I think it’s a very stupid position for him to take if he wants to win .

[mountain grammy]

23. voting rights are never stupid..

and shouldn't be denied to anyone.

[cwydro]

37. If you commit a violent crime, you lose those rights.

Don’t commit violent crimes.

[mountain grammy]

39. Like a previous poster said.. a felony is a felony is a felony..

and I'm sure you're aware of the injustice of our justice system..

[cwydro]

40. Of course.

I’m in favor of them regaining their rights after they serve their term.

[mountain grammy]

42. and you do know those "terms"

are disporportionately longer for some than others? This is an issue that goes to the heart of American justice and voter suppression. If poll taxes, intimidation, terror, and lynchings fail to keep African Americans from voting, just lock them up. Can't vote while you're locked up. Racism has been the driving force behind disenfranchising voters.. Don't want to get locked up? Don't want to be lynched? Don't try to vote. There's plenty of history and evidence to back this up.

[cwydro]

43. I understand these issues.

We’re in disagreement on this particular thing.

No problem.

[peggysue2]

54. x1000

Stupid position for Sanders and the Democratic Party in general. It's a 'what were you thinking' moment.

[NurseJackie]

59. You're right. I hope he runs with it and makes it the CENTERPIECE of his campaign.

[Renew Deal]

25. Bernie is in big trouble if his campaign is about advocating for voting rights for child molesters.

[bluedigger]

27. I guess it is what the MSM makes it.

[Demsrule86]

17. Maybe we should get such folks out of jail ...but what the message is

Sorry you don't deserve prison but hey, we will protect your vote,.you are welcome. Come on. Foolish move on Sanders part. Always the victim too.

[BannonsLiver]

51. Life's rough.

What do you think about just letting them all out? Prison is unpleasant after all.

[Rebl2]

7. Agreed!

[Cuthbert Allgood]

45. How about black men in prison for drug possession?

It's a wide range of people in prison. Disproportionately people of color.

[brooklynite]

2. Smear (verb): "damage the reputation of (someone) by false accusations; slander."

What is the false accusation or slander in criticizing what he said?

[PeeJ52]

14. Yeah... I very much dislike these Enquirer type headline words too...

Seems everything has to be sensationalized, then you read the story and it's just a simple statement. No ill intent. Just an honest opinion. I wish people would lighten up...

[leftofcool]

3. No, he wasn't

He said what he said then doubled down on it.

[still_one]

5. Nice misleading headline without the context. Be that as it may, in 2012, olnly 32% of Americans

endorsed allowing people currently in prison to vote.

Has that view changed?

I don't know, but making this an issue, out of all the issues we are dealing with at this critical time in our country, I suspect is not the highest priority for most Americans now

However, if he wants to make this an issue that he wants to be identified with during his campaign, the voters will determine how that resonates

[WhiskeyGrinder]

16. Interestingly, the percentage of people who don't support voting rights for incarcerated people is

very similar to the percentage of people who didn't support the Freedom Riders in 1961.

I do agree, it's not a strong campaign issue in a presidential campaign, and can definitely be used as a bludgeon.

[still_one]

21. It is your last statement where I am coming from Whiskey.

[mountain grammy]

24. Yes, very interesting.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

44. Race is an immutable characteristic. Criminal status isn't.

While I would prevent most capital offenders from voting while incarcerated I would allow those incarcerated for lesser offenses not only to vote but to be eligible for weekend furloughs. I assure you most prisoners would rather go home for the weekend than vote. It's seems paternalistic to tell prisoners what rights we think are important to them.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

48. "It's seems paternalistic to tell prisoners what rights we think are important to them."

As a fellow citizen, I'm interested in them having as many rights as possible while incarcerated -- after all, there are some they still have. I can't think of a reason as to why they shouldn't vote.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

52. For most non-violent offenders furloughs would really take the sting out of incarceration.

And it would be a great carrot.

[MineralMan]

6. While I understand the principle Sanders is supporting in this,

I also understand that it's a minority position among Democratic voters. They all want everyone who has the right to vote to have the opportunity to vote. However, currently-incarcerated felons are not a popular group, and most people believe that they should not be able to vote until they have served their prison term.

That has been the case for a very long time, and most people think that's just fine with them. In fact, in many states, even making it possible for felons who have served their sentences is a very difficult thing to get through state legislatures.

Bernie's pushing an unpopular idea with this, and it's not going to add to his vote total in primary elections. Personally, I have no problem with people in prison voting, but a helluva lot of people do, and that includes Democratic voters.

[cwydro]

10. Well put.

I agree with that.

I don’t know how he thinks he’s going to win with that particular idea .

[WeekiWater]

9. Today's H A Goodman.

I don’t see how people can watch this guys videos.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

13. Not a fan of Bernie, but I believe people who are incarcerated should be able to vote.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

15. So what else is new?!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Demsrule86]

18. Smeared no ...vetted yes.

[frazzled]

19. Disagreeing with a position is not "smearing"

Smearing is attributing some sleazy and usually false attribution to a candidate. If some people disagree, they are simply disagreeing.

I've kind of had it with the kind of hyperbolic, anger-raising, over-the-top language that is used in support of this campaign. Words like "slayed" or "destroyed" to characterize how the candidate responded to another politician's statements; "smeared" or "hate" to characterize simple disagreement. It really needs to stop. It's highly alienating.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

46. You didn't think the "Psych, it's the Boston Bomber" bit was hyperbole?

Kind of a "smear" for a position that is valid and addresses a lot of racial concerns?

[oasis]

20. Just when the perception that Democrats were "soft on crime" was fading,

we get a revival of the falsehood dropped at our doorstep for 2020, the most important election ever.

And for what?

[BannonsLiver]

50. Bernie saw a strength and made it a weakness.

That’s his MO.

[Renew Deal]

22. It's not a smear if it's true

He took a position and now calls the natural response to that position a "smear." Just like when his camp called him being called a millionaire a "smear"

[Codeine]

26. I agree with Sanders but it's not a smear.

It’s a disagreement. He has taken a position at odds with the prevailing views of his party and the American public. I agree with his view but I’m able to recognize that my opinion is not a popular one and probably shouldn’t be a hill to die on, or something upon which one doubles down.

[Renew Deal]

32. I think most DUers support a middle group position

People that have finished a felony prison term should be able to vote.

[cwydro]

38. Yes. I agree with that too. nt

[SidDithers]

28. Do you post anything other than David Pakman videos?...

A search of your posts shows that you don't ever post anything but links to Pakman.

Some might consider that spam.

Are you being paid to promote his videos at DU?



Sid

[aidbo]

29. Lighten up Francis. The video is on topic. There's an ignore button.

[SidDithers]

31. Every post this poster has made since Dec 2015 has been a link to a Pakman video...

More than 1000 posts.

You don't find that odd?

Sid

[Codeine]

53. What the actual fuck?

I guess we know Mr Pakman’s DU username then.

[aidbo]

55. I find it odd that you sign every post even though your name is right there at the top of the post..

..but I don't call you out on it. (okay I guess I just did there)

If you don't like the poster's contributions, you can ignore them. If you actually think it rises to the level of Spam, you can report them to the cyber police. Have a nice day!

[MrsCoffee]

63. Or we can just ask them why.

That ignore button works for you too. If you don’t like the poster’s contributions you could ignore them.

But I guess you calling someone out is different.

[Mike Nelson]

33. Sorry but...

… you lose freedoms in prison. That's why it's prison. We do need to welcome those serving their time beck into the voting booths, though! I understand Bernie's position, and don't agree with him on this one... I don't consider it "smearing" to disagree... hopefully others do, too!

[Cuthbert Allgood]

47. Why, specifically, the right to vote?

Where is it in the constitution that the right to vote should be taken away?

And why do those prisoners count to population for representation but they can't vote?

[Mike Nelson]

56. I don't think there is any...

… statement in the US constitution about taking away the right to vote. I think that's something open to interpretation... I think it's a debatable area. Originally, of course, the founders were wary of letting "common" people vote. They wanted Congress only to vote for President, for example... there was no "Popular Vote" for many years. As far as representation... the wanted an accurate representation of humans - they weren't expecting them to vote... no kids, no women, no Native Americans, no slaves... I think they wanted voters to be white, land-owning men - preferably Congressmen!

[Cuthbert Allgood]

57. Right. But even they didn't say no to prisoners explicitly.

So, back to the original question. Why is the right to vote one of the freedoms that you have to lose in prison?

[Mike Nelson]

60. I think...

… they didn't say "no" to prisoners explicitly because they did not think it needed to explicitly stated - they did not expect prisoners would be voting. Voting was not something they trusted to average people - so my interpretation of the document as a whole would be that those serving in prison would lost the right to vote...

[Cuthbert Allgood]

61. OK. So, again, back to the question at hand...

why is voting a right that people should lose when they go to prison?

[ehrnst]

34. More David Pakman spam?

[SidDithers]

36. I was curious, so I did the search...

every post this poster has made since Dec 2015 has been a link to a David Pakman video.

If that's not spam, I don't know what is.

Sid

[comradebillyboy]

35. Is anything short of adoration a smear where BS is concerned?

[Renew Deal]

41. You know the answer to that

OMG, that's a smear too.

[BannonsLiver]

49. No, Bernie was critiqued for believing people like Dylan Roof should be allowed to vote.

Don’t get it twisted.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

58. That specific example is a good one of the gotcha nature of the question.

We can debate the overall rights question without the "whatabout" bullshit.

David Duke gets to vote and he's a horrible person. Should we take away the right to vote from white nationalists?

[comradebillyboy]

62. If they are serving time for a felony conviction? Yes.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

64. Every single one?

Even when we know that people of color are vastly over represented in the prison felony population. For largely non-violent crimes.

ETA: I realized the post you were responding to. We don't stop shitty people that aren't in prison from voting, so what is the reason we should take away the right to vote from prisoners? Because they are bad people? That's not a reason we stop people from voting.

[comradebillyboy]

66. How about it's a terrible campaign issue if you want to win the

election. I think symbolic gestures that have no chance of being enacted won't help us get rid of Donald Trump. Getting Trump out of office overrides all other considerations. Personally I don't really care if prisoners can vote or not.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

68. How about Democrats actually stand for principal?

How about we don't spear a progressive because they say progressive things. It isn't just "well this isn't a winning position" here on DU, there is WAY too high a number that just don't agree that it is shitty we take away voting rights from a predominately population of color.

[comradebillyboy]

69. You can tilt at windmills to your hearts content but it's a losing strategy.

Can't make reforms if you don't win elections.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

72. OK. So I'll discount those comment here on DU.

What about those that say people in prison shouldn't vote? That seems like a decidedly un-liberal position to take.

[Jose Garcia]

65. Of course it is. But we lose some of our right when we are in prison

[Honeycombe8]

67. Does anyone know what rsacamano thinks of the video?

Or what his opinion is?

[brooklynite]

71. Here's the best way to restore voting rights (be prepared to take notes...)

Don't lose the election by advocating an extreme policy position like giving voting rights to incarcerated felons.