Selling Black and Brown Voters Down the River, One Fox News Town Hall at a Time

[Skidmore]

https://www.thenation.com/article/fox-news-town-hall-elie-mystal/

Democratic candidates need to stop showing up on a white-supremacist network.
By Elie Mystal APRIL 25, 2019

When reached for comment about the Democratic Party’s self-defeating quest to recapture the white Trump voter, Captain Ahab said: “Believe me, chasing white blowhards all over the map could cost the Democrats everything.”

Look, I get the obsession. I understand that it is difficult for Democrats, white Democrats especially, to believe that over 60 million Americans voted for an openly bigoted, misogynist lunatic because he was an openly bigoted, misogynist lunatic. They want to believe that these people were “tricked” or “misinformed” or “reacting to economic grievances.” Some of these people are in their families. Like Frodo talking to Gollum, they need to believe that these Trump voters can be educated, redeemed, or saved.

And they believe it’s smart electoral politics. If you could win back just a small percentage of these white Trump voters, you can maybe win back Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania. You can put Ohio, Iowa, and Indiana back in play. If you could just get maybe 5 percent of these Trump people to be a little less racist this time, and nonwhites continue to dutifully vote for Democrats because they have no better options, then you’re looking at an electoral landslide....more

[sharedvalues]

1. No Fox. Ever. Don't legitimize the propaganda network

[SidDithers]

2. Fuck yes...nt

Sid

[Indygram]

3. I like Beto O'Rourke's approach much better

He doesn't write anyone off and will go to bright red areas for town halls to talk with and listen to what anyone has to say...but he does NOT change his message one iota. Absolutely NO poll testing. No pandering...just showing up.

[dalton99a]

6. I have not heard a speech where he didn't mention concerns of POC

or speak Spanish even for a couple minutes or so

There is a reason there is so much warmth and goodwill for him among POC in Texas. They really like and trust the guy

[Indygram]

11. Yep...he's so genuine and sincere

Everyone should try to see him in person if they get a chance.

[sacto95834]

48. 50 State Plan...

I don't believe anyone should be "written off." One should campaign everywhere possible. You never know who might be listening and be willing to be convinced.

That said, I do not think a lot of resources should be put into trying to regain the "Trump" voter. Rather, I would concentrate on messaging to new voters - the future of the party and population.

[leftofcool]

5. Every vote matters

Black, white or brown.

[pangaia]

30. Asians?

[leftofcool]

47. Of course

Just making a point

[Honeycombe8]

7. There are some Trump voters who had been Democratic voters....

that the Democratic candidate should be able to get back. I think, from what I've read, that is the blue collar white male who got hit with job losses and high health care costs from the ACA (if they even qualified for the ACA). They feel they are being left out of the big tent of the Democratic Party.

The Democratic Party has historically been the party of the working class, the blue collar workers, the unions. I don't think the Democratic Party should walk away from them. We do care about them...their health care, their jobs.

There's room in the tent for everyone who is not part of the big corporate oligarchy.

(I also read that some suburban Republican women don't like Trump and would consider voting for someone else. There are also establishment Republicans who would vote for the anti-Trump. It's a good thing that citizens vote for our candidate. We don't have to become Republican to get them to vote for us. Just point out the advantage to them in doing so.)

Going on Fox isn't trying to get the cult followers of Trump. It's about trying to show normal people who watch Fox that Democrats aren't scary monsters who want to murder newborn babies.

[Pobeka]

18. Well said. n/t

[brer cat]

20. It isn't necessary or desirable to give ratings to FOX

in order to reach voters who might switch from trump. As stated in the article:

Are there gettable white voters who watch Fox News? Probably. But one way you can tell the difference between those people and the “real” racists is that the gettable voters get information from places other than Fox News. The gettable ones read! The gettable ones participate in community activities instead of just watching TV all the time.

If you simply must appeal to white Trump voters, go find and talk to them when they are doing something other than receiving the white-grievance drip provided by Fox.

[Bradshaw3]

28. Wrong on two counts

Its not an article but an opinion piece, meaning statements like "the gettable voters get information from places other than Fox News." is just an opinion and it's a wrong one at that. There are swing voters who watch Faux News and it's electoral malpractice not to reach out to them.

It's not about giving ratings to Faux, it's about reaching as many voters as you can, even if the vast majority won't change their minds. That minority that's left means a lot in states that cost us the electoral college by less than 80,000 votes.

[brer cat]

32. And that is your opinion

and I think it is wrong.

[Bradshaw3]

37. Opinion based on facts

Here's a story on the Obama-tRump voters who are supporting him at numbers much less than his current job approval among repubs in general.

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/06/trump-obama-voters-poll-242334

There are a few million votes that could be had there, and in an election that was lost by less than 80,000 votes (another fact) it is electoral malpractice to just write them off as all of one stripe. Sure it makes some feel good but Mystal has an agenda and that agenda could put rump in the WH again in 2020 and ensure repub control of the senate. My agenda is to win in 2020 and you do that by being smart about your election tactics.

[brer cat]

43. Neither the author of the piece nor I disputed that

there are voters who supported trump who might be persuaded to vote Democratic this time, but nice try to put words in our mouths so that you can provide the "facts." If you have "facts" to support that the ONLY way to reach these voters is via FOX then by all means share them. Otherwise, this is a waste of time.

[Bradshaw3]

50. Putting words in my mouth doesn't work

I never said Faux was the only way to reach them but it is one big way some receive "news". And please don't accuse me of something you do yourself. That's a waste of time. The facts I povided are useful in this discussion, as some of the other posts show - some people simply lump all Faux viewers togehter and dismiss them entirely - a wrongheaded election strategy.

[Honeycombe8]

45. I don't know if I agree with that. People are too busy to consult various sources for news.

Working, pick up the kids, get dinner ready, family time, maybe watch a couple of family sitcoms, put the kids to bed, 1 hour of news, get ready for bed, clean the kitchen. Do it all again tomorrow.

I htink the avg working person with a family doesn't have the time to go searching for various viewpoints. They watch the evening news or a news show they like, and that's it. Even normal people.

A suburban Repub woman might very well vote for a ticket with a woman in it, if they don't sound what to her would be wacky. If they seem fairly normal, she might just hit the button for them in the poll booth.

[Bradshaw3]

29. Nice summary n/t

[StarfishSaver]

34. Here's my problem with that argument

I truly believe that any voter who voted Democratic in 2008 and 2012 and then voted for Trump (and I don't think there are as many of them as people think) is not to be trusted. They are either bigots or easily confused. If they could be persuaded to vote for Trump after voting for Barack Obama and still need to be convinced not to vote for Trump again at this moment in time after all they've seen and heard, I don't trust them any further than I can throw them. We can campaign to them until the cows come home and they can tell us that we've convinced them, they're going to "come back home"- but how do we know that when they're out of sight, somewhere between our last contact with them and the time they pull the lever in the booth, their racist cousin Bubba or a Trump-loving neighbor or a dog named Sam or someone else hasn't gotten to them and swayed them right back into the Republican camp?

I don't want to waste a lot of time trying to convince confused people that they should not vote for Trump and hope that, on Election Day, they remember not to. I'm focusing my efforts on supporting and empowering people who will, without any question, vote for Democrats IF they know their vote will matter, it won't be suppressed and it will be counted.

[Bradshaw3]

38. The facts show you are wrong

There are actually millions of Obama-trump voters as shown by the data and your stereotyped characterization of them is part of the problem.

On the Obama-rump voter, this research study puts it at 9 percent, which adds up to millions:
https://www.voterstudygroup.org/publication/race-religion-immigration-2016#how-many-people-switched-their-vote-between-2012-and-2016

Here is an article about how rump's support among those voters is eroding:
https://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/06/trump-obama-voters-poll-242334

Another one on how these swing voters helped Dems win big in 2018:
https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2018/11/16/obama-trump-voters-turn-back-to-democrats


When we lose an election because of less than 80,000 votes in three states it is electoral malpractice to write them off. Of course calling them all confused or bigots doesn't help either. It may be true for 90 percent of them but those 10 percent left add up to millions and it is not a good tactic to write them off.

[StarfishSaver]

39. A poll isn't a "fact"

I don't believe this poll. I think it reflects the same dynamic we saw in 2016 when people told pollsters they were going to vote for Hillary and then voted for Trump. The Bradley Effect is not a thing of the past.

But even if the poll is accurate and 9 percent of voters voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012 and then voted for Trump, my point stands. If they STILL need to be convinced not to vote for Trump again at this point in time, I'm not wasting any time or effort on them. I will leave them to themselves.

We can more than make up for these confused, untrustworthy voters by building up and supporting our loyal base - and not take them for granted and leave them to watch the party tripping over itself chasing voters who don't give enough a crap about those voters to have figured out by now that they shouldn't be voting for the man who poses an immediate and existential threat to them.

[Bradshaw3]

49. Polls are one data point and back up opinion

You have offered nothing to back up your claims - just more claims. Your point doesn't stand and repeating it does make it any more useful in the coming election. I know you ignore them, as others want to do, and doing so could very well cost Dems the WH and Senate. Electroal politics are not not won on emotion and stereotyping and casting out an important voting bloc (I've already shown why) based on it just means four more years of rump.

[spicysista]

8. Elie Mystal is spot on!

I'm not sure folks really understand how problematic some of the opinions around here sound. Sure, I can guarantee that a large chunk of key constituencies will turn out for uncle Joe. My mother, mother-in-law, grandmother, grand and great aunts and uncles will all be sure to vote. I'm going to do my best to get my age group of folks out, too. However, there needs to be a clear understanding: choosing another old white guy to (possibly?) gain a few racist/misogynist white people will definitely make that job harder for me.

Not because I personally have a problem with uncle Joe (life has taught me early about seeking the good rather than the faults of people), but because so many of my friends are tired of waiting on the democrats to make us a priority. Hell, we're the ones who keep bringing you to the party. When are you going to dance with us? Why do you keep running after that which has already left you and doesn't are about me?

I will work until I am blue in the face to remove the orange menace. However, the conversations happening around the tone deaf responses from BS, lessons seemed not learned from uncle Joe, and Mayor Pete's seemingly "iffy" relationship with his own black constituents.....are not great. There are real questions of "who is really for us" out there. I'm not going to post the other questions because it may be seen as bashing the party, by some. I will say that a token won't do, this time.

If the supposedly good white guy who supported Dolt45 isn't already sick of him and willing to vote democrat (or just stay home), then choosing uncle Joe will not change his mind. Facts.

Why do we require black and minority voters to operate at such sophisticated levels? Why do we require so little of white men? We should really think about this.

[marylandblue]

10. I agree with you on that, but I don't think it's an either/or

Last edited Mon Apr 29, 2019, 09:52 AM - Edit history (1)

I think our stance on healthcare and infrastructure will be attractive in the Rust Belt. Mayor Pete is working on outreach to black voters using policies aimed at improving their neighborhoods. I can't promise he'll convince them, but he won't ignore them.

[spicysista]

15. The way I phrase it I my friends...

...Will not be with an either or approach. I've been working to register and getting people to vote since I was 9. These folks, my peers, are more than up on the issues. They live them in ways that are absolutely alien to many. Further conversation down this line may be problematic, so I'll move on.
My unsolicited advice to Mayor Pete and others: listen. The She the People " forum was great, on so many levels. I hope Mayor Pete and others will watch Beto's interview. He was very impressive. My sister and I had similar reactions. He was engaged and "unbothered" by uncomfortable questions.

[marylandblue]

17. Sorry you don't feel you can speak freely.

Speaking for myself, I promise you nothing you say could bother me. Maybe I'll get to hear your thoughts in the future.

[spicysista]

19. Thank you, Marylandblue.

I may post an op to further express my opinions on the matter. There was a great segment on AM Joy this weekend which really touched on many of the issues I'd like to raise. It's only because I believe in the Democratic party that I feel so strongly. I am truly wary. We all need to feel inspired. That was the magic of Obama.

Elizabeth Warren was an entire masterclass on how to get it "right". There's definitely more than one way and each candidate will have to find their own. At the risk of getting off thread, I'll post a clip.

[StarfishSaver]

35. You and me both

Your post is so eloquent and on point!

[spicysista]

41. Thank you, StarfishSaver.

Welcome to DU!

[StarfishSaver]

42. Thank you!

[Hortensis]

9. Disagree with the title and first sentence.

Didn’t read more after that. These people are running to be president of the entire country, and like it or not, Fox is the “news” source for many millions. We know a bunch of people who watch it exclusively, trust nothing else.

The purpose and content, of course, are critical. They must be to honestly in form and not to reinforce hostility against the Democratic Party.

[leftofcool]

21. I agree with you.

To exclude the millions who watch FOX News is exactly how Trump works. The difference is, he excludes any Democrat who watches MSNBC. Trump is the president of his own like minded people. I want the Democrat to be President of all people.

[CentralMass]

12. I think it is a mistake for Democrats to appear on Fox. However there is a precedent

Senators Clinton and Obama appeared on Fox in the 2008 campaign for interviews by Bill O'Leilly. President Obama appeared on it numerous times and Hillary appeared again in the 2016 campaign.
I don't consider any of the appearances selling out.

[watoos]

13. I live among Trumpers in central Pa.

One of the main, if not the main reason, that Trumpers voted for Trump, it's what they told me, because they couldn't vote for Hillary. Think about that. People didn't vote for Trump they voted against Hillary. My point isn't that Hillary was a bad candidate, my point is that Republicans demonize whoever our candidate is. Look what they did to Hillary; she has 6 months left to live, she has a fucking hole in her tongue, she has brain damage from a fall, she runs a pedophile ring out of the basement of a pizza shop that doesn't even have frigging basement.

Candidates who have the guts to go on Fox can limit a lot of the smear campaign that is going to hit the next "Hillary Clinton." Believe me, Republicans are dirty, they are going to hit our next nominee just like they hit Hillary. Showing up on Fox and looking those dirt bags in the eye, going toe to toe with them will cancel some of that out. I applaud Democrats who have the guts to take on Fox it will only help them in the general election.

I see that Adam Schiff is going on Fox. What say you about that people?

[crazytown]

14. "Buttigieg is from Indiana for God's sake!"

Last edited Mon Apr 29, 2019, 09:38 AM - Edit history (1)

“If he wants to reach Trump voters, he just has to go down to the Indianapolis Motor Speedway and start talking. He’ll find some of them there—a swath of Trump voters with nothing better to do than watch cars drive around in a circle. Go ahead, convince them.”

FU

[Ferrets are Cool]

16. 100% agree

Don't legitimize the WSN.

[IronLionZion]

22. Somehow, Obama managed to win twice

including some very unlikely wins in Indiana, Iowa, North Carolina, Nevada, and even one of Nebraska's electoral votes in 2008.

We need to encourage high turnout from liberals/minorities/women/LGBT/etc and enough swing voters in certain states to make a difference.

Anyone who would come home to our party has already decided to do so. Any white Dem who is still supporting Trump is not going to flip back to our side. Maybe their kids or grandkids are a better target. And many of those kids might be mixed race or know more minorities/immigrants/LGBT/women who are impacted negatively by Trump policies.

[watoos]

24. It's not about making white Trump voters flip,

it's about having them stay home and not vote.

[IronLionZion]

25. The GOP plan is voter suppression

to stop minorities from voting. How do you plan to get white Trumpsters to stay home?

[StarfishSaver]

40. You are absolutely right.

[yaesu]

23. it should be a 100% boycott or nothing at all

I guess its nothing at all.

[SidDithers]

26. Some primary candidates' only chance is to chase the white "economic anxiety" vote...

Instead of energizing the Democratic base, they're going to try to convince racist Trumpers to vote Democratic.



Sid

[StarfishSaver]

36. And hope that, when they actually get in the polling booth, they remember to vote for the Democrat

and not for the guy the last person they talked to told them they should vote for.

[nini]

27. They legitimize the propaganda when they go to Fox

To me it's as simple as that.

[lunasun]

31. I think the 2 candidates that welcome fox airtime are competing for the same voters

I just take it as a check mark on my list . Many people disgusted by the fox kissup are probably not going to vote for either of them anyway and they need to find a way to win
They can talk to who they want just like trump
There are many other candidates running . Use your vote
I don’t know of any others wanting fox time

[StarfishSaver]

33. Excellent analysis. Thanks for sharing it!

[msongs]

44. there's the new democratic camapign pitch: please don't vote for me nt

[Cha]

46. Excellent POINT, Skidmore!

[EffieBlack]

51. Any person who supposedly votes Democratic but voted for Trump whose sole news source is Fox

and can only be reached by appearing to them on that network is hardly likely to vote for a Democrat next year, no matter what they say.

[Qutzupalotl]

52. It is similar to the 50-state strategy.

You’re either in the debate or you cede it. Failing to show up looks weak and cowardly. Yes’ they’ll ask hard questions, even gotcha questions, but politics ain’t tiddlywinks.

It only costs a little time to go on a few Fox programs, and it might be worth it. Remember, that channel is on in waiting rooms in a lot of places. Not every viewer wears a red hat.

Besides, a president has to be the leader of ALL Americans, of all kinds. Trump isn’t, but that’s on him. We can do better.