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Gender: Male
Hometown: MN
Member since: 2003 before July 6th
Number of posts: 20,018

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The free will argument is nonsense anyway

Here's the Christian idea:

1) God gives us the power to do as he says, thereby pleasing him
2) NONE of us live up to the standard ("For ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God.."
3) He reasons that INFINITE punishment is the proper response
4) He gets us out of that predicament by arranging to get himself killed (temporarily)
5) IF you believe that, then he lets you off the hook

There are all kinds of things to criticize there, but here's the one no one ever seems to mention:

If "free will" actually meant that we could ever have pleased him without the whole cross drama, then some of us would.

That's the way it works: If there are currently 2 billion believers trying to please god -- and if it's possible to do so -- then at least a few of them don't really need the crucifixion to get them into heaven. When the bible says "ALL have sinned and come short..." it's a flashing neon sign: "THIS WHOLE THING IS A LIE. YOU'VE BEEN TAKEN!"

Think of it this way, if I built a cylindrical wall 30 feet high with no doors, no way to climb, drains so that the rainwater wouldn't eventually let you swim to the top, etc.

If I then air-lifted you into it and took away the rope, I could say, "You have free will; jump over the wall and escape any time you want. If you CHOOSE not to jump the 30ft wall, that's YOUR fault."

I'd be a devil, not a god. I'd be a monster.

Free will means nothing if you CAN'T fulfill whatever requirements are set upon you.

A whole lot of people have tried VERY HARD to exercise their "free will" and please god over the centuries; the bible assures us that none of them ever had a chance.

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