General Discussion

R B Garr

(17,407 posts)

31. I see lots of info about the costs causing huge tax increases, which

Wed Jan 24, 2018, 09:08 PM

Jan 2018

are never discussed. I don't think they provided a tally in California's single payer plan, either. They just submitted a values statement and let the elected politician who had to address costs take the heat.

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Bernie Sanders talks universal Medicare, and 1.1 million people click to watch him [View all] DonViejo Jan 2018 OP

DURec leftstreet Jan 2018 #1

This is what we need more of. Talking to experts in other countries about their healthcare systems. PatsFan87 Jan 2018 #2

Yes. Yes. Yes. Sophia4 Jan 2018 #7

Or experts on health care in the US as well as other countries ehrnst Jan 2018 #65

the energy is misdirected on proving the plan is unfeasible. If it were on fixing that plan, JCanete Jan 2018 #180

Yeah, and leveraging online media Bradical79 Jan 2018 #190

oh how I wish burnbaby Jan 2018 #3

Me too. MontanaMama Jan 2018 #103

I know burnbaby Jan 2018 #112

Kick area51 Jan 2018 #4

Thanks for the link. NCTraveler Jan 2018 #93

But... progressoid Jan 2018 #5

Yes, but he's very Democratic! DemocracyMouse Jan 2018 #54

Yes, but MORE popular than any other Democrat... AMONG Democrats! InAbLuEsTaTe Jan 2018 #179

+1 progressoid Jan 2018 #209

Lived in Ontario for 2 years... B Stieg Jan 2018 #6

We waste more money in the military budget than we could even fathom. vsrazdem Jan 2018 #11

The VA is somewhat like single payer -- but a lot more expensive and much, much Sophia4 Jan 2018 #140

Same way we now pay for our healthcare. We work and some of our money goes Sophia4 Jan 2018 #12

Most pharmacies give flu shots for free. sheshe2 Jan 2018 #32

Medicare covers people at the most expensive time in their lives when it comes Sophia4 Jan 2018 #39

I hardly use it yet myself. sheshe2 Jan 2018 #40

Single payer does not cost as much as we pay in our current system if we are under Sophia4 Jan 2018 #41

Medicare was not complicated when it first started. Caliman73 Jan 2018 #130

As I have said so many times, I lived in four different European countries. Sophia4 Jan 2018 #8

Canadian health care saved my life. BobTheSubgenius Jan 2018 #14

I'm with you on that. Sophia4 Jan 2018 #15

- Bigredhunk Jan 2018 #118

And if Canada's system is not as good as Norways.... LiberalLovinLug Jan 2018 #16

Our system is horrible. Sophia4 Jan 2018 #17

And don't let anyone tell you that every other western democracy does not have single payer LiberalLovinLug Jan 2018 #20

Right. Sophia4 Jan 2018 #42

Did any of those countries have 325 million people? France has only 66 million.... George II Jan 2018 #71

Then it should be administered in groups of states, regionally. Sophia4 Jan 2018 #86

You have that backwards. PETRUS Jan 2018 #97

+1000 LiberalLovinLug Jan 2018 #99

Let's try it and find out. Sophia4 Jan 2018 #142

So what's the most people this will work for, Mr Math? SaintLouisBlues Jan 2018 #107

So France has only 1/5 of the tax payers to fund their program which is 1/5 the size of ours? Caliman73 Jan 2018 #131

I've flown on airplanes. Does that make me an expert on air traffic control? ehrnst Jan 2018 #199

Kick dalton99a Jan 2018 #9

K&R mvd Jan 2018 #10

Disclosure saidsimplesimon Jan 2018 #13

Couldn't get it here, no cable. raven mad Jan 2018 #18

Still the frontrunner by some for the 2020 democratic nominee. Sharpshooter007 Jan 2018 #19

Yup LiberalLovinLug Jan 2018 #21

Back to reality. Hillary would have won if she wasn't attacked so much. R B Garr Jan 2018 #23

You agree with me. LiberalLovinLug Jan 2018 #25

It's a totally false narrative. Bernie was never attacked. Hillary was R B Garr Jan 2018 #26

wooooooosh LiberalLovinLug Jan 2018 #27

It certainly isn't a "woooosh". Trying to rewrite history is R B Garr Jan 2018 #28

Ok LiberalLovinLug Jan 2018 #30

Yes, let's not promote false narratives that cannot be addressed properly R B Garr Jan 2018 #33

I see what you did there. sheshe2 Jan 2018 #35

.... R B Garr Jan 2018 #36

;) sheshe2 Jan 2018 #55

.... ehrnst Jan 2018 #113

Hillary would have won -- she did win the popular vote. Sophia4 Jan 2018 #43

I found the hatred for and lies spread about HRC way out of bounds and disgusting ehrnst Jan 2018 #114

I disagree. They could have put something together quickly, and I believe it also would have StevieM Jan 2018 #24

Hillary beat Trump by 3 million votes. Sophia4 Jan 2018 #44

There were a whole lot of things working against a landslide ehrnst Jan 2018 #124

I can't let this go LiberalLovinLug Jan 2018 #196

First off, ehrnst Jan 2018 #201

Reality: Hillary received 4 million more votes than he did. He never ceme close to winning, and got lunamagica Jan 2018 #74

The hypotheses was IF he had won the primary. LiberalLovinLug Jan 2018 #98

Hillary crushed trump on the debates, and I don't see how anyone could have done better lunamagica Jan 2018 #100

Like I said, no one really knows. LiberalLovinLug Jan 2018 #102

But I only ever "no one really knows" only after they have been shown ehrnst Jan 2018 #125

This message was self-deleted by its author R B Garr Jan 2018 #110

IMHO, one needs to get the majority of votes of Democrats in order to beat DT like Hillary did. ehrnst Jan 2018 #126

Not according to Bloombergs survey. sheshe2 Jan 2018 #62

Lots of people are "frontrunners by some." (nt) ehrnst Jan 2018 #64

He's got my vote AGAIN. Weed Man Jan 2018 #75

Not to mention his funny cousin still has his wits about him at 70 LiberalLovinLug Jan 2018 #101

Indeed. It was a geninue surprise to find out they are related. Weed Man Jan 2018 #106

I want to respond but my aggressive support of Hillary might get me in trouble around here Eliot Rosewater Jan 2018 #134

If the cancer doesn't reccur and he becomes transparent concerning his finances ehrnst Jan 2018 #135

Passive agressive bashing of Democrats is still bashing. (nt) ehrnst Jan 2018 #136

And yet were I to be overly supportive of Hillary here I can GUARANTEE attention Eliot Rosewater Jan 2018 #143

Does anyone ask him why Vermont doesn't have single payer? R B Garr Jan 2018 #22

Does anyoneone know how the viewership tally was calculated? lapucelle Jan 2018 #29

I see lots of info about the costs causing huge tax increases, which R B Garr Jan 2018 #31

There would be tax increases. See my post that compares the cost of healthcare Sophia4 Jan 2018 #45

Wiki? R B Garr Jan 2018 #48

If we get single payer, our insurance costs will go down. Sophia4 Jan 2018 #50

Democrats are not the enemy. Republicans are, and R B Garr Jan 2018 #53

Teach! sheshe2 Jan 2018 #59

Yep. We need to be the ones following the recommendations of actual experts ehrnst Jan 2018 #127

Exactly, and all that dogma is what got us Trump, and Trump R B Garr Jan 2018 #148

A lot of Democrats are not persuaded that single payer is a good idea. Sophia4 Jan 2018 #137

ffs, Hillary wasn't negative as she was more realistic. Nothing wrong with R B Garr Jan 2018 #144

Vermont has a tiny population and problems with providing healthcare in any Sophia4 Jan 2018 #149

You keep attacking Hillary, but now it's okay that Vermont doesn't have R B Garr Jan 2018 #155

The population of Vermont is under 700,000. Sophia4 Jan 2018 #165

What we should not do again is blame our candidates R B Garr Jan 2018 #171

I had a wonderful experience with single payer. That doesn't make it feasible here in the US. ehrnst Jan 2018 #161

She had a more realistic and cost effective plan to move towards universal health care ehrnst Jan 2018 #153

Brilliant. Turns out that the main message about single payer was mostly R B Garr Jan 2018 #184

Dogma is dogma. ehrnst Jan 2018 #189

One can Feel deeply about a topic. Knowing about it is another thing entirely. ehrnst Jan 2018 #119

Put it in my post 51 to Sophia. Here ya go sheshe2 Jan 2018 #56

Excellent, she! These words right here: R B Garr Jan 2018 #69

If we can discuss Green Mountain Care as a case study, ehrnst Jan 2018 #128

How much would Vermont's citizens pay for healthcare for all if they all really bought Sophia4 Jan 2018 #146

Bigger than many provinces in Canada, and they did it independently of each other. ehrnst Jan 2018 #169

The Daily Howler (Bob Somerby) is my go-to source lapucelle Jan 2018 #70

Very interesting. Maybe why I have the impression that Kaiser does a better job Sophia4 Jan 2018 #150

Oh! Good catch. I was thinking about the healthcare costs. R B Garr Jan 2018 #37

To expensive. sheshe2 Jan 2018 #34

Absolutely, and it makes you wonder why only Democrats R B Garr Jan 2018 #38

Cheaper than our private insurance system. Sophia4 Jan 2018 #47

I would have prefered some links and facts. sheshe2 Jan 2018 #51

I posted the links and facts above. Sophia4 Jan 2018 #152

Google is our friend. Sophia4 Jan 2018 #181

Hmmm sheshe2 Jan 2018 #60

Why are you arguing against single payer? hueymahl Jan 2018 #81

I think you may be confusing "single payer" with "universal health care" ehrnst Jan 2018 #129

Fair point, but I am not confused hueymahl Jan 2018 #168

Incremental expansion of the ACA. ehrnst Jan 2018 #170

Good post hueymahl Jan 2018 #187

Thx. But I'm not who came up with it. ehrnst Jan 2018 #188

"I just listened." NurseJackie Jan 2018 #200

Our medical costs will go down. Sophia4 Jan 2018 #89

Other countries didn't start from where we are now. ehrnst Jan 2018 #115

of COURSE costs will go down! LiberalLovinLug Jan 2018 #105

Again, the US is not starting at the same place other countries did, or at the time they did. ehrnst Jan 2018 #116

Down. Look at the experiences in other countries which I have posted twice on this Sophia4 Jan 2018 #154

And you fail to understand that the U.S. is very different from other countries ehrnst Jan 2018 #195

Great post Gothmog Jan 2018 #192

Thanks. sheshe2 Jan 2018 #193

Good questions. ehrnst Jan 2018 #194

Thank you, ehrnst sheshe2 Jan 2018 #198

Based on comparing our system to a multitude of foreign systems, it's pretty obvious Sophia4 Jan 2018 #208

But they started in another era, with a different health care system ehrnst Jan 2018 #175

My response..."To Expensive" sheshe2 Jan 2018 #203

May I remind everyone that Medicare insures people at the most expensive time Sophia4 Jan 2018 #207

But look at the real numbers that I posted above. Sophia4 Jan 2018 #151

They started at a very different time in history, with very different health care systems ehrnst Jan 2018 #172

Thank you for all your posts here, ehrnst. sheshe2 Jan 2018 #182

Facts matter. ehrnst Jan 2018 #191

Probably because we all know why already. harun Jan 2018 #67

No Democrats are Kings anywhere. R B Garr Jan 2018 #68

A federal system would not protect women's reproductive rights ehrnst Jan 2018 #121

Hospital Industry, Insurance Industry and Drug Industry harun Jan 2018 #145

Can you point to some examples? ehrnst Jan 2018 #147

Looks as though little has changed since that question was answered in real time. Orsino Jan 2018 #117

Thanks, but we have wiped out a lot of industries over the history of our country. Sophia4 Jan 2018 #156

We don't do these things by passing one law... Orsino Jan 2018 #162

The fact that he refuses to talk about lessons learned from Green Mountain Care ehrnst Jan 2018 #120

states do not have the power to limit medical costs like countries do questionseverything Jan 2018 #202

Does single payer in other countries offer any incentives for healthy behaviors? MadDAsHell Jan 2018 #46

I did not see much morbid obesity when I lived there. People walk a lot and ride Sophia4 Jan 2018 #49

So What? hueymahl Jan 2018 #82

Who said it was my opinion? MadDAsHell Jan 2018 #109

Kaiser makes sure that people on Medicare take some aspirin if they have high Sophia4 Jan 2018 #157

Canada has some programs: ehrnst Jan 2018 #122

I believe England offers incentives, but to medical clinics for promoting positive habits. Caliman73 Jan 2018 #132

As long as we have to have the biggest military and very low taxes, universal Medicare Hoyt Jan 2018 #52

I don't see these things as being mutually exclusive hueymahl Jan 2018 #83

Problem is, we will have to pay for it and as states like Vermont, Colorado, California found out, Hoyt Jan 2018 #85

Medicare already covers the most expensive population when it comes to healthcare Sophia4 Jan 2018 #160

Agree. But, how long do you think it will take to change the whole healthcare system where Hoyt Jan 2018 #174

Good points! Sophia4 Jan 2018 #176

Bringing down prices is way, way more difficult than keeping them low from the start ehrnst Jan 2018 #166

Interesting Points hueymahl Jan 2018 #167

The military isn't what is standing in the way of "Medicare for All" ehrnst Jan 2018 #133

I'd start by having a Public Option. If Medicare is as good as we think, people Hoyt Jan 2018 #138

That was on Hillary's agenda - the public option. ehrnst Jan 2018 #139

The European single payer I had did cover dental ccare. Sophia4 Jan 2018 #159

Mine didn't. But that's not really relevant to a discussion about ehrnst Jan 2018 #173

Ahh, all accounted for I see! MuseRider Jan 2018 #57

Let's see, he helped us out of the TPP ucrdem Jan 2018 #58

Ummhmm. sheshe2 Jan 2018 #61

If DU does the heart thing this year . . . ucrdem Jan 2018 #63

Lol sheshe2 Jan 2018 #204

Was a great session. Well done! harun Jan 2018 #66

I didn't watch it, did he discuss how to pay for the program? Certainly can't compare.... George II Jan 2018 #72

I'd suggest you watch the stream from end to end. Weed Man Jan 2018 #77

When he first introduced this months ago, he neglected to say how it would be paid for... George II Jan 2018 #78

The European systems took money directly out of our paycheck like a payroll tax. Sophia4 Jan 2018 #163

Let's see those tax returns, Bernie. NT Adrahil Jan 2018 #73

1.1 viewers? How did they calculate this number? lunamagica Jan 2018 #76

It never happened. The viewer numbers are a total fabrication. NurseJackie Jan 2018 #79

I think you are right. Had it gotten those numbers, it would be trending on Twitter. It isn't lunamagica Jan 2018 #80

Here are the receipts: TYT - 28K viewers, NowThis News - 6.8K, ATTN - 436 NurseJackie Jan 2018 #91

Thanks. Just as I suspected lunamagica Jan 2018 #92

I found where the unsubstantiated 1-million rumor started... NurseJackie Jan 2018 #94

"I think"? wow...I guess that's enough "proof" for some. Good find, Nurse Jackie lunamagica Jan 2018 #96

The View Count Of 28,000 Me. Jan 2018 #158

Thank you for posting this Gothmog Jan 2018 #178

Why thank you Nurse Jackie. sheshe2 Jan 2018 #205

WOW! So theyre off by 980,000! R B Garr Jan 2018 #206

Care to provide any proof? hueymahl Jan 2018 #84

Actually, it's the extraordinary number claimed that needs proof. There's no evidence... NurseJackie Jan 2018 #87

Got it. hueymahl Jan 2018 #88

And it looks like that the 1.1 million is a guess too. Or a fantasy. Or just a made-up number lunamagica Jan 2018 #90

I just find it interesting hueymahl Jan 2018 #95

Like people who don't believe the actual figures that don't add up to 1.1 million? ehrnst Jan 2018 #141

UHC is possible, even mandatory. Eliot Rosewater Jan 2018 #104

Let's get people behind single payer health insurance and build a majority of Sophia4 Jan 2018 #164

for people who are already there...for people who still aren't sure or haven't heard enough, it is JCanete Jan 2018 #177

... LexVegas Jan 2018 #108

Over a million viewers sounds outrageously unlikely. Hortensis Jan 2018 #111

I'd read somewher these numbers are over inflated.....Bernie's crew should not be pulling a Trump BoneyardDem Jan 2018 #123

Great moral argument, Bernie. What's the long term political strategy that can achieve it? Yavin4 Jan 2018 #183

I don't see how preaching to the choir advances the policy in any way... brooklynite Jan 2018 #185

Someday Bernie needs to run for Senate so he can make this a reality... Blue_Tires Jan 2018 #186

He could take a lesson or two from Hillary Rodham Clinton who actually got affordable health care ehrnst Jan 2018 #197