General Discussion

Sophia4

(3,515 posts)

151. But look at the real numbers that I posted above.

Fri Jan 26, 2018, 01:34 PM

Jan 2018

Countries that have single payer insurance pay less for healthcare and have better outcomes. That is the fact. The rest is all "fake news."

Look at the numbers. They speak for themselves.

I don't mean this personally, but the numbers for country after country are better than ours.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

209 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Bernie Sanders talks universal Medicare, and 1.1 million people click to watch him [View all] DonViejo Jan 2018 OP

DURec leftstreet Jan 2018 #1

This is what we need more of. Talking to experts in other countries about their healthcare systems. PatsFan87 Jan 2018 #2

Yes. Yes. Yes. Sophia4 Jan 2018 #7

Or experts on health care in the US as well as other countries ehrnst Jan 2018 #65

the energy is misdirected on proving the plan is unfeasible. If it were on fixing that plan, JCanete Jan 2018 #180

Yeah, and leveraging online media Bradical79 Jan 2018 #190

oh how I wish burnbaby Jan 2018 #3

Me too. MontanaMama Jan 2018 #103

I know burnbaby Jan 2018 #112

Kick area51 Jan 2018 #4

Thanks for the link. NCTraveler Jan 2018 #93

But... progressoid Jan 2018 #5

Yes, but he's very Democratic! DemocracyMouse Jan 2018 #54

Yes, but MORE popular than any other Democrat... AMONG Democrats! InAbLuEsTaTe Jan 2018 #179

+1 progressoid Jan 2018 #209

Lived in Ontario for 2 years... B Stieg Jan 2018 #6

We waste more money in the military budget than we could even fathom. vsrazdem Jan 2018 #11

The VA is somewhat like single payer -- but a lot more expensive and much, much Sophia4 Jan 2018 #140

Same way we now pay for our healthcare. We work and some of our money goes Sophia4 Jan 2018 #12

Most pharmacies give flu shots for free. sheshe2 Jan 2018 #32

Medicare covers people at the most expensive time in their lives when it comes Sophia4 Jan 2018 #39

I hardly use it yet myself. sheshe2 Jan 2018 #40

Single payer does not cost as much as we pay in our current system if we are under Sophia4 Jan 2018 #41

Medicare was not complicated when it first started. Caliman73 Jan 2018 #130

As I have said so many times, I lived in four different European countries. Sophia4 Jan 2018 #8

Canadian health care saved my life. BobTheSubgenius Jan 2018 #14

I'm with you on that. Sophia4 Jan 2018 #15

- Bigredhunk Jan 2018 #118

And if Canada's system is not as good as Norways.... LiberalLovinLug Jan 2018 #16

Our system is horrible. Sophia4 Jan 2018 #17

And don't let anyone tell you that every other western democracy does not have single payer LiberalLovinLug Jan 2018 #20

Right. Sophia4 Jan 2018 #42

Did any of those countries have 325 million people? France has only 66 million.... George II Jan 2018 #71

Then it should be administered in groups of states, regionally. Sophia4 Jan 2018 #86

You have that backwards. PETRUS Jan 2018 #97

+1000 LiberalLovinLug Jan 2018 #99

Let's try it and find out. Sophia4 Jan 2018 #142

So what's the most people this will work for, Mr Math? SaintLouisBlues Jan 2018 #107

So France has only 1/5 of the tax payers to fund their program which is 1/5 the size of ours? Caliman73 Jan 2018 #131

I've flown on airplanes. Does that make me an expert on air traffic control? ehrnst Jan 2018 #199

Kick dalton99a Jan 2018 #9

K&R mvd Jan 2018 #10

Disclosure saidsimplesimon Jan 2018 #13

Couldn't get it here, no cable. raven mad Jan 2018 #18

Still the frontrunner by some for the 2020 democratic nominee. Sharpshooter007 Jan 2018 #19

Yup LiberalLovinLug Jan 2018 #21

Back to reality. Hillary would have won if she wasn't attacked so much. R B Garr Jan 2018 #23

You agree with me. LiberalLovinLug Jan 2018 #25

It's a totally false narrative. Bernie was never attacked. Hillary was R B Garr Jan 2018 #26

wooooooosh LiberalLovinLug Jan 2018 #27

It certainly isn't a "woooosh". Trying to rewrite history is R B Garr Jan 2018 #28

Ok LiberalLovinLug Jan 2018 #30

Yes, let's not promote false narratives that cannot be addressed properly R B Garr Jan 2018 #33

I see what you did there. sheshe2 Jan 2018 #35

.... R B Garr Jan 2018 #36

;) sheshe2 Jan 2018 #55

.... ehrnst Jan 2018 #113

Hillary would have won -- she did win the popular vote. Sophia4 Jan 2018 #43

I found the hatred for and lies spread about HRC way out of bounds and disgusting ehrnst Jan 2018 #114

I disagree. They could have put something together quickly, and I believe it also would have StevieM Jan 2018 #24

Hillary beat Trump by 3 million votes. Sophia4 Jan 2018 #44

There were a whole lot of things working against a landslide ehrnst Jan 2018 #124

I can't let this go LiberalLovinLug Jan 2018 #196

First off, ehrnst Jan 2018 #201

Reality: Hillary received 4 million more votes than he did. He never ceme close to winning, and got lunamagica Jan 2018 #74

The hypotheses was IF he had won the primary. LiberalLovinLug Jan 2018 #98

Hillary crushed trump on the debates, and I don't see how anyone could have done better lunamagica Jan 2018 #100

Like I said, no one really knows. LiberalLovinLug Jan 2018 #102

But I only ever "no one really knows" only after they have been shown ehrnst Jan 2018 #125

This message was self-deleted by its author R B Garr Jan 2018 #110

IMHO, one needs to get the majority of votes of Democrats in order to beat DT like Hillary did. ehrnst Jan 2018 #126

Not according to Bloombergs survey. sheshe2 Jan 2018 #62

Lots of people are "frontrunners by some." (nt) ehrnst Jan 2018 #64

He's got my vote AGAIN. Weed Man Jan 2018 #75

Not to mention his funny cousin still has his wits about him at 70 LiberalLovinLug Jan 2018 #101

Indeed. It was a geninue surprise to find out they are related. Weed Man Jan 2018 #106

I want to respond but my aggressive support of Hillary might get me in trouble around here Eliot Rosewater Jan 2018 #134

If the cancer doesn't reccur and he becomes transparent concerning his finances ehrnst Jan 2018 #135

Passive agressive bashing of Democrats is still bashing. (nt) ehrnst Jan 2018 #136

And yet were I to be overly supportive of Hillary here I can GUARANTEE attention Eliot Rosewater Jan 2018 #143

Does anyone ask him why Vermont doesn't have single payer? R B Garr Jan 2018 #22

Does anyoneone know how the viewership tally was calculated? lapucelle Jan 2018 #29

I see lots of info about the costs causing huge tax increases, which R B Garr Jan 2018 #31

There would be tax increases. See my post that compares the cost of healthcare Sophia4 Jan 2018 #45

Wiki? R B Garr Jan 2018 #48

If we get single payer, our insurance costs will go down. Sophia4 Jan 2018 #50

Democrats are not the enemy. Republicans are, and R B Garr Jan 2018 #53

Teach! sheshe2 Jan 2018 #59

Yep. We need to be the ones following the recommendations of actual experts ehrnst Jan 2018 #127

Exactly, and all that dogma is what got us Trump, and Trump R B Garr Jan 2018 #148

A lot of Democrats are not persuaded that single payer is a good idea. Sophia4 Jan 2018 #137

ffs, Hillary wasn't negative as she was more realistic. Nothing wrong with R B Garr Jan 2018 #144

Vermont has a tiny population and problems with providing healthcare in any Sophia4 Jan 2018 #149

You keep attacking Hillary, but now it's okay that Vermont doesn't have R B Garr Jan 2018 #155

The population of Vermont is under 700,000. Sophia4 Jan 2018 #165

What we should not do again is blame our candidates R B Garr Jan 2018 #171

I had a wonderful experience with single payer. That doesn't make it feasible here in the US. ehrnst Jan 2018 #161

She had a more realistic and cost effective plan to move towards universal health care ehrnst Jan 2018 #153

Brilliant. Turns out that the main message about single payer was mostly R B Garr Jan 2018 #184

Dogma is dogma. ehrnst Jan 2018 #189

One can Feel deeply about a topic. Knowing about it is another thing entirely. ehrnst Jan 2018 #119

Put it in my post 51 to Sophia. Here ya go sheshe2 Jan 2018 #56

Excellent, she! These words right here: R B Garr Jan 2018 #69

If we can discuss Green Mountain Care as a case study, ehrnst Jan 2018 #128

How much would Vermont's citizens pay for healthcare for all if they all really bought Sophia4 Jan 2018 #146

Bigger than many provinces in Canada, and they did it independently of each other. ehrnst Jan 2018 #169

The Daily Howler (Bob Somerby) is my go-to source lapucelle Jan 2018 #70

Very interesting. Maybe why I have the impression that Kaiser does a better job Sophia4 Jan 2018 #150

Oh! Good catch. I was thinking about the healthcare costs. R B Garr Jan 2018 #37

To expensive. sheshe2 Jan 2018 #34

Absolutely, and it makes you wonder why only Democrats R B Garr Jan 2018 #38

Cheaper than our private insurance system. Sophia4 Jan 2018 #47

I would have prefered some links and facts. sheshe2 Jan 2018 #51

I posted the links and facts above. Sophia4 Jan 2018 #152

Google is our friend. Sophia4 Jan 2018 #181

Hmmm sheshe2 Jan 2018 #60

Why are you arguing against single payer? hueymahl Jan 2018 #81

I think you may be confusing "single payer" with "universal health care" ehrnst Jan 2018 #129

Fair point, but I am not confused hueymahl Jan 2018 #168

Incremental expansion of the ACA. ehrnst Jan 2018 #170

Good post hueymahl Jan 2018 #187

Thx. But I'm not who came up with it. ehrnst Jan 2018 #188

"I just listened." NurseJackie Jan 2018 #200

Our medical costs will go down. Sophia4 Jan 2018 #89

Other countries didn't start from where we are now. ehrnst Jan 2018 #115

of COURSE costs will go down! LiberalLovinLug Jan 2018 #105

Again, the US is not starting at the same place other countries did, or at the time they did. ehrnst Jan 2018 #116

Down. Look at the experiences in other countries which I have posted twice on this Sophia4 Jan 2018 #154

And you fail to understand that the U.S. is very different from other countries ehrnst Jan 2018 #195

Great post Gothmog Jan 2018 #192

Thanks. sheshe2 Jan 2018 #193

Good questions. ehrnst Jan 2018 #194

Thank you, ehrnst sheshe2 Jan 2018 #198

Based on comparing our system to a multitude of foreign systems, it's pretty obvious Sophia4 Jan 2018 #208

But they started in another era, with a different health care system ehrnst Jan 2018 #175

My response..."To Expensive" sheshe2 Jan 2018 #203

May I remind everyone that Medicare insures people at the most expensive time Sophia4 Jan 2018 #207

But look at the real numbers that I posted above. Sophia4 Jan 2018 #151

They started at a very different time in history, with very different health care systems ehrnst Jan 2018 #172

Thank you for all your posts here, ehrnst. sheshe2 Jan 2018 #182

Facts matter. ehrnst Jan 2018 #191

Probably because we all know why already. harun Jan 2018 #67

No Democrats are Kings anywhere. R B Garr Jan 2018 #68

A federal system would not protect women's reproductive rights ehrnst Jan 2018 #121

Hospital Industry, Insurance Industry and Drug Industry harun Jan 2018 #145

Can you point to some examples? ehrnst Jan 2018 #147

Looks as though little has changed since that question was answered in real time. Orsino Jan 2018 #117

Thanks, but we have wiped out a lot of industries over the history of our country. Sophia4 Jan 2018 #156

We don't do these things by passing one law... Orsino Jan 2018 #162

The fact that he refuses to talk about lessons learned from Green Mountain Care ehrnst Jan 2018 #120

states do not have the power to limit medical costs like countries do questionseverything Jan 2018 #202

Does single payer in other countries offer any incentives for healthy behaviors? MadDAsHell Jan 2018 #46

I did not see much morbid obesity when I lived there. People walk a lot and ride Sophia4 Jan 2018 #49

So What? hueymahl Jan 2018 #82

Who said it was my opinion? MadDAsHell Jan 2018 #109

Kaiser makes sure that people on Medicare take some aspirin if they have high Sophia4 Jan 2018 #157

Canada has some programs: ehrnst Jan 2018 #122

I believe England offers incentives, but to medical clinics for promoting positive habits. Caliman73 Jan 2018 #132

As long as we have to have the biggest military and very low taxes, universal Medicare Hoyt Jan 2018 #52

I don't see these things as being mutually exclusive hueymahl Jan 2018 #83

Problem is, we will have to pay for it and as states like Vermont, Colorado, California found out, Hoyt Jan 2018 #85

Medicare already covers the most expensive population when it comes to healthcare Sophia4 Jan 2018 #160

Agree. But, how long do you think it will take to change the whole healthcare system where Hoyt Jan 2018 #174

Good points! Sophia4 Jan 2018 #176

Bringing down prices is way, way more difficult than keeping them low from the start ehrnst Jan 2018 #166

Interesting Points hueymahl Jan 2018 #167

The military isn't what is standing in the way of "Medicare for All" ehrnst Jan 2018 #133

I'd start by having a Public Option. If Medicare is as good as we think, people Hoyt Jan 2018 #138

That was on Hillary's agenda - the public option. ehrnst Jan 2018 #139

The European single payer I had did cover dental ccare. Sophia4 Jan 2018 #159

Mine didn't. But that's not really relevant to a discussion about ehrnst Jan 2018 #173

Ahh, all accounted for I see! MuseRider Jan 2018 #57

Let's see, he helped us out of the TPP ucrdem Jan 2018 #58

Ummhmm. sheshe2 Jan 2018 #61

If DU does the heart thing this year . . . ucrdem Jan 2018 #63

Lol sheshe2 Jan 2018 #204

Was a great session. Well done! harun Jan 2018 #66

I didn't watch it, did he discuss how to pay for the program? Certainly can't compare.... George II Jan 2018 #72

I'd suggest you watch the stream from end to end. Weed Man Jan 2018 #77

When he first introduced this months ago, he neglected to say how it would be paid for... George II Jan 2018 #78

The European systems took money directly out of our paycheck like a payroll tax. Sophia4 Jan 2018 #163

Let's see those tax returns, Bernie. NT Adrahil Jan 2018 #73

1.1 viewers? How did they calculate this number? lunamagica Jan 2018 #76

It never happened. The viewer numbers are a total fabrication. NurseJackie Jan 2018 #79

I think you are right. Had it gotten those numbers, it would be trending on Twitter. It isn't lunamagica Jan 2018 #80

Here are the receipts: TYT - 28K viewers, NowThis News - 6.8K, ATTN - 436 NurseJackie Jan 2018 #91

Thanks. Just as I suspected lunamagica Jan 2018 #92

I found where the unsubstantiated 1-million rumor started... NurseJackie Jan 2018 #94

"I think"? wow...I guess that's enough "proof" for some. Good find, Nurse Jackie lunamagica Jan 2018 #96

The View Count Of 28,000 Me. Jan 2018 #158

Thank you for posting this Gothmog Jan 2018 #178

Why thank you Nurse Jackie. sheshe2 Jan 2018 #205

WOW! So theyre off by 980,000! R B Garr Jan 2018 #206

Care to provide any proof? hueymahl Jan 2018 #84

Actually, it's the extraordinary number claimed that needs proof. There's no evidence... NurseJackie Jan 2018 #87

Got it. hueymahl Jan 2018 #88

And it looks like that the 1.1 million is a guess too. Or a fantasy. Or just a made-up number lunamagica Jan 2018 #90

I just find it interesting hueymahl Jan 2018 #95

Like people who don't believe the actual figures that don't add up to 1.1 million? ehrnst Jan 2018 #141

UHC is possible, even mandatory. Eliot Rosewater Jan 2018 #104

Let's get people behind single payer health insurance and build a majority of Sophia4 Jan 2018 #164

for people who are already there...for people who still aren't sure or haven't heard enough, it is JCanete Jan 2018 #177

... LexVegas Jan 2018 #108

Over a million viewers sounds outrageously unlikely. Hortensis Jan 2018 #111

I'd read somewher these numbers are over inflated.....Bernie's crew should not be pulling a Trump BoneyardDem Jan 2018 #123

Great moral argument, Bernie. What's the long term political strategy that can achieve it? Yavin4 Jan 2018 #183

I don't see how preaching to the choir advances the policy in any way... brooklynite Jan 2018 #185

Someday Bernie needs to run for Senate so he can make this a reality... Blue_Tires Jan 2018 #186

He could take a lesson or two from Hillary Rodham Clinton who actually got affordable health care ehrnst Jan 2018 #197