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friendly_iconoclast

(15,333 posts)

63. Have you ceased physically abusing your significant other?

Reply to SunSeeker (Reply #55)

Sat Mar 3, 2018, 05:30 AM

Mar 2018

Last edited Sat Mar 3, 2018, 08:36 AM - Edit history (1)

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The Liberal Gun Club: We support Fix NICS [View all] friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 OP

And ban assault weapons like AR15. And ban large capacity magazines. And do fun buybacks blake2012 Mar 2018 #1

Something is better than nothing, and this lays the groundwork for future efforts friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #2

The political momentum being built up on gun control cannot end with just the NICS fix blake2012 Mar 2018 #3

"... which does very little to address mounting gun violence." EX500rider Mar 2018 #37

I noticed you stopped at 2014. Homicide rate has gone up since blake2012 Mar 2018 #38

The US homicide rate and Euro rate aren't that far apart. EX500rider Mar 2018 #41

We don't have good data because NRA/GOP banned data - they're afraid of real studies sharedvalues Mar 2018 #60

Rap on your turntable, the record keeps skipping: friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #72

Above I cited a well-done study that says fed funding ban is a big problem. sharedvalues Mar 2018 #75

Ask the head of Everytown For Gun Safety for the funds- he's worth $50 billion: friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #131

Nah. Society funds govt research on car deaths, drug overdoses sharedvalues Mar 2018 #140

A gun control advocate that won't kick in 1% of their net worth is insincere, at best friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #153

Problem is gun-fetishists deny proof. RAND article: solid. Your attacks: ad hominem. sharedvalues Mar 2018 #168

The FBI still mantains stats for homicide/robbery etc EX500rider Mar 2018 #161

Damn right! workinclasszero Mar 2018 #162

Close the private sale/gun show loop hole. Not much of a NICS fix without that. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #4

Required background checks won't work if the checks themselves are faulty- hence Fix NICS friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #5

So you're fine with schizophrenia patients having the ability to buy guns? SunSeeker Mar 2018 #17

No, and I'll thank you to take *your* words out of *my* mouth friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #19

The concept of prior restraint relates to the 1st Am, not the 2nd Am. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #28

"I notice you refuse to answer my question about whether a schizophrenic should have a gun." I did friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #30

Ok, so given you agree schizophrenics shouldn't buy guns... SunSeeker Mar 2018 #34

"How do you propose to prevent schizophrenics from buying guns?" By court hearing friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #39

What are you talking about? Who would set this hearing? Who would be the parties? SunSeeker Mar 2018 #42

A civil order for treatment, not necessarily involuntary confinement in a mental hospital friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #45

That does NOT capture mental illness diagnoses, only involuntary treatment judicial orders. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #46

No. Moral panics are no reason to override the Constitution friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #48

So you think people with schizophrenia should be able to get a gun? SunSeeker Mar 2018 #55

Have you ceased physically abusing your significant other? friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #63

So you think your ends justify any means, even if it means pissing on the Constitution? friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #64

No. I am not pissing on the Constitution, I am applying it. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #85

Have you discontinued physically abusing your significant other? I can do leading questions, too... friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #94

That is just silly. You obviously just want to engage in insults instead of a thoughtful discussion. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #102

Oh, please-you've been trying to pin a strawman argument on me almost since you got to this thread friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #115

You don't offer a plan to stop the dangerously mentally ill from getting guns. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #123

No constitutional right to own assault rifles. sharedvalues Mar 2018 #61

In this instance, you are correct- but you don't have the votes... friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #65

Diagnosed with? Fuck no. That would be a violation of their due process. X_Digger Mar 2018 #143

Reminds you of the 'no fly/terrorist watch lists', no? friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #155

Not if there is notice and opportunity for hearing before it is posted in NICS. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #157

Then it's not about the diagnosis, is it? Make up your mind, eh? X_Digger Mar 2018 #159

What specific diagnoses should be reported to the database? Mental illness on its own is too... Marengo Mar 2018 #87

I would set up a panel of medical professionals to determine that. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #88

Maybe we could apply the same standard to speech, or other things in the Constitution. friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #96

Um, no one shot up a school because they were exercising the 1st, 5th or 8th Am. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #98

"the...mentally ill are the vast majority of mass shooters. You know that." No, *you claimed that... friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #99

There are a LOT more authorities for that than that LATimes article. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #103

You're trying to put a lot of claims in my mouth that I have not made, and will not make friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #116

You trusted Feinstein on her 'assault weapons bans'- but not on this? friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #126

I trust her, I just think this is a pittance and we should demand more. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #127

"Have fun researching me? I'm honored..." Well, knowledge *is* power... friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #129

Yes, knowledge is good. Stalking, not so much. nt SunSeeker Mar 2018 #132

Call it 'opposition research' friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #133

Kinda pathetic to call a fellow DUer "Opposition." That's supposed to be the GOP. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #137

Are we not debating a subject, and are those not your own words? friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #152

Debating does not make me "the Opposition"... unless you're not a Democrat. nt SunSeeker Mar 2018 #158

If you disagree with me, you're not a Democrat? How odd a stance. X_Digger Mar 2018 #169

Calling Democrats "the Opposition" is a pretty "odd stance" for a Democrat. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #170

Funny, I don't read that sentence in the exchange above. Care to point it out? X_Digger Mar 2018 #173

Discussion of gun control at DU tends to attract self-appointed "DU Political Officers"... friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #175

What part of "DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND" do you not understand? SunSeeker Mar 2018 #178

What part of "You're not actually in charge of DU" do you not understand? friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #188

Aww, toddle off. X_Digger Mar 2018 #196

No one called you "the opposition" -and BTW, Democrats most certainly do "opposition research"... friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #179

FIx NICS would be huge IMO - would this not also increase liability for acting outside the system? hexola Mar 2018 #6

Private sales without checks would still be legal- so open NICS to private sellers... friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #7

This would be the right way to do it but the gun prohibition people wont ever do t Lee-Lee Mar 2018 #8

Not criminal - but liable... hexola Mar 2018 #9

No, all the proposed UBC make it criminal to even loan a gun Lee-Lee Mar 2018 #11

Dude, no-one should be teaching gun safety. Weed Man Mar 2018 #27

"Ignorance is strength!", eh? friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #32

That's already true fescuerescue Mar 2018 #16

Someone on CNN described a check system - where buyer and seller get temp permits hexola Mar 2018 #10

Just make a NICS website and app for the public Lee-Lee Mar 2018 #12

"Liberal Gun Club" is like "Progressive Pro-Lifer". nt LexVegas Mar 2018 #13

LOL SunSeeker Mar 2018 #18

This sounds like RWers trying to nullify Roe v. Wade friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #21

No, it doesn't, and no I didn't. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #29

Why would your opinion of what's offensive matter? friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #33

OFFS. Read my reply. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #35

Misguided attempts to derail reform because "it isn't good enough"... friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #40

The 1/6/16 HIPAA rule does not require reporting of mental illness diagnoses. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #43

IIRC, Fix NICS would encode that HIPPA ruling into law friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #44

That does nothing about getting mental illness diagnoses reported. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #47

The ACLU has gone on record strongly opposing what you propose. I concur with them: friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #49

IOW: Moral panics are no reason to erode civil rights friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #50

It's not "moral panics," whatever the hell that means, it's statistics. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #56

You haven't got the votes, and would rather reject a partial fix than compromise friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #71

If we just have the votes for crumbs, then I'll take crumbs. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #80

Category error. Societal right to keep kids alive wins out over right to own lots of guns sharedvalues Mar 2018 #62

Logical fallacy. "Think of the children" is an appeal to emotion, not an argument friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #69

Category error: gun restrictions ARE constitutional. Your original pt re Const: category error. sharedvalues Mar 2018 #77

Make up your mind. Do you want mental illness diagnoses in NICS or not? SunSeeker Mar 2018 #54

No. Not without a court order. What you want is no different than the 'terrorism watch lists'... friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #66

Well, that response suggests you DO want the mentally ill buying guns. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #84

Well, that response suggests you think your cause is more important than due process. friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #108

Not at all, the process I suggest has been held constitutional. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #110

"(T)he process I suggest has been held constitutional." In which Federal court? Cite, please. friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #113

Goldberg v. Kelly-SCOTUS held that pre-termination administrative hearings comply with due process SunSeeker Mar 2018 #120

I have no problem with that, provided a) there are no ex parte hearings, b) they are not held friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #128

Gideon is not applicable. The person is not being charged with a felony. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #135

I can see the Second Amendment Foundation jumping in on such cases friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #144

Apples to sea sponge....not in any way related. AncientGeezer Mar 2018 #138

I find it interesting ... Straw Man Mar 2018 #160

I find it interesting that some here think guns are more important than food. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #167

Nice try, but nowhere did I say or imply that. Straw Man Mar 2018 #171

Wrong, you totally misunderstood Goldberg v. Kelly. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #172

No, I didn't. Straw Man Mar 2018 #174

It is you who is siding with the state; the ruling GOP wants no gun control. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #176

Another straw man from you. Straw Man Mar 2018 #177

There are several more upthread. All that straw in one place is a fire hazard! friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #183

Kindly point out where such a sentiment was expressed. We'll wait... friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #180

When you demanded more protections for denial of gun purchases than are afforded food. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #184

The bar should be higher for termination of welfare benefits. Straw Man Mar 2018 #186

Citizens should be afforded legal counsel in any legal (or quasi-legal) dealings with the state friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #189

That merely shows that welfare hearings are unfair, not that guns are more important than food friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #187

No, you were asserting the NICS administrative hearings I was suggesting were unconstitutional. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #190

You will not improve the lot of welfare recipients one iota by restricting others' rights friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #192

You presume wrongly. I am what you just called "those people." SunSeeker Mar 2018 #198

Due process is a "roadblock"? This isn't 'Authoritarian Underground', and your ...contributions... friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #199

Why Senate Democrats are considering holding up a gun-control bill from one of their own sl8 Mar 2018 #14

History repeats: "Screw that 'half a loaf'! We want the whole thing, or nothing!" friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #26

This "NICS fix" is not half a loaf. It's crumbs. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #57

NICS Fix is what is possible now. Would you prefer to "take a dive" for strategic reasons... friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #67

If all we have the votes for are crumbs, I'll take crumbs. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #83

Three recent mass shootings sarisataka Mar 2018 #15

As long as private sales aren't subject to background checks Crunchy Frog Mar 2018 #20

"As long as private sales aren't subject to background checks" I address this in post #7 friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #23

Sorry, private sellers need to go through FFLs who are accountable for keeping records, etc. Hoyt Mar 2018 #51

This message was self-deleted by its author Hoyt Mar 2018 #52

Not neccessary if private sellers can use the NICS, and its use is made mandatory friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #73

Need to go through FFL who can lose their business if they don't keep records. Private sellers have Hoyt Mar 2018 #81

You have no clue how a NICS checks works do you? AncientGeezer Mar 2018 #89

No, I expect people to do the checks who have their license on the line. Hoyt Mar 2018 #90

Let' run through your list....oh we don't have to because NONE were private sales. AncientGeezer Mar 2018 #91

Sure I am OldGeezer. Do you think those gunners and those who support guns are Hoyt Mar 2018 #149

And robbers and rapists will just steal a gun Lee-Lee Mar 2018 #164

That's exactly why we need to restrict new gun sales. So-called Hoyt Mar 2018 #165

"Men will walk upright now, women will smile and the children will laugh,... friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #195

No doubt, gunners are afraid of, and have no regard for, society. Time that changes. Hoyt Mar 2018 #197

I repeat what I said earlier....you have no clue how NICS works. AncientGeezer Mar 2018 #200

I know damn well how gunners are. FFLs will at least do the background check correctly, not wanting Hoyt Mar 2018 #205

You don't know a "gunner" from a grass hopper. AncientGeezer Mar 2018 #206

When you were a robber, did you get guns from a dealer? friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #97

Its essy enough to enforce- do a private sale without using it and go to jail Lee-Lee Mar 2018 #163

Like that stops gunners from killing and intimidating people. Hoyt Mar 2018 #166

If a NICS check were free for private sales...how is that NOT right? AncientGeezer Mar 2018 #201

Free or very reduced. Straw Man Mar 2018 #202

Very similar here....shop to shop transfer is a full charge NICS.. AncientGeezer Mar 2018 #203

Never liked old adages, but "Fox guarding the hen house," sure comes to mind. Hoyt Mar 2018 #204

FFL's do NOT do the checks they file for checks....DOJ, specificly...ATF does the checks AncientGeezer Mar 2018 #207

Exactly. Straw Man Mar 2018 #208

Checks are conducted by the state or the FBI. sl8 Mar 2018 #211

mandated in 1993??? WTF? spanone Mar 2018 #22

It *was* implemented- but only made mandatory on the Federal level for gun dealers friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #24

thanks! spanone Mar 2018 #25

Exactly. Straw Man Mar 2018 #31

Yeah the complaint it could be abused is nonsense Lee-Lee Mar 2018 #36

Is there a reason you feel it's unreasonable to let a person support their local range... moriah Mar 2018 #92

Do you want to give local ranges/dealers a monopoly on checks? They'll still be free to do them... friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #93

They already have it, and again, I'm trying to throw the people against UBCs crumbs. moriah Mar 2018 #106

Require a photocopy of the buyer's ID. friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #111

So-called Liberal Gun Club has only 2000 members. They lobby Democrats, pushing lax gun Hoyt Mar 2018 #53

Well, this "NICS fix" is certainly weak tea. nt SunSeeker Mar 2018 #58

If you can't get Fix NICS, you certainly can't get even more restrictive laws passed friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #74

This does not "fix" NICS. nt SunSeeker Mar 2018 #79

That's no more or less than your opinion, and you are perfectly free to express it. friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #95

It is a fact. It does NOTHING to expand background checks; it does NOTHING to facilitate reporting. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #100

Tell that to Sandy Hook Promise, who support this- and Dianne Feinstein, who co-sponsored it: friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #105

Well, Dems will take these crumbs when it's the only game in town. Like I said, nice try. nt SunSeeker Mar 2018 #107

Has it occured to you that those Dem co-sponsors might actually think it would work? friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #117

Sure, it might work to do the little it offers to do. nt SunSeeker Mar 2018 #122

Just think them as a source of photos of white gun owners, if nothing else friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #68

Well, that's pretty much what you see in the so-call Liberal Gun Club. My guess is they are just Hoyt Mar 2018 #82

As opposed to locking doors so cops can't get in? Who profits from that? Robbers, right? AncientGeezer Mar 2018 #114

Wouldn't know. I would suggest you and your Discussionist buddies learn Hoyt Mar 2018 #145

"Trying to fool people into believing they are something different " An evidence-free claim... friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #119

Few Democrats lobby legislators to promote more guns in more places. I suspect Hoyt Mar 2018 #146

"Few Democrats lobby legislators to promote more guns in more places." And does LGC do that? friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #148

That's what you get when you search for gun stores or shows, gun lovers, ranges, Hoyt Mar 2018 #150

You sought those photos out, and downloaded them. Do you only download ones with white gun owners? friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #151

Go ahead, search Under Liberal Gun Club and see what you get. Think I saw Dana Loesch. Hoyt Mar 2018 #191

I don't have to, since *you* made the claim- and can't back it up. As usual... friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #193

Your photo choices merely demonstrate your editorial preference, no more and no less friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #181

How about universal background checks. The real stuff, not the GOP backed fake bill sharedvalues Mar 2018 #59

Hasn't got the votes. Or would you rather no progress at all? friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #70

Yes my gay, now-married friend was telling me the same in 2005. sharedvalues Mar 2018 #76

Well then, get busy rounding up the votes. Meanwhile, spare us the "all or nothing" schtick friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #101

This NICS fix is pretty damn close to nothing. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #104

Tell that to Dianne Feinstein, who was one of the original co-sponsors: friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #109

This is Cornyn's baby. She just signed on. Because it's the only game in town. nt SunSeeker Mar 2018 #112

Then support it. There aren't the votes for a AWB, and likely won't be until 2021 at the earliest. friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #118

I'm not saying Dems should vote no, I'm just saying it's crumbs. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #121

You say crumbs...the alternative is nothing...starvation. AncientGeezer Mar 2018 #124

No, the "alternative" is voting yes on this pittance and demanding more. nt SunSeeker Mar 2018 #125

Then urge your Congresscritters to do both- that's the only way change will happen. friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #130

How do we "demand" that while in the minority....? AncientGeezer Mar 2018 #134

We will not be silent. Even if you threaten to take away the crumbs. nt SunSeeker Mar 2018 #136

Give it a shot....we've been down this road OFTEN. AncientGeezer Mar 2018 #139

We are. And this time it appears to be working. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #141

Does "working" mean "attacking the actions of your biggest supporter in Congress... friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #147

I'm not attacking Democratic supporters. nt SunSeeker Mar 2018 #156

In my case, you are. Or do you presume to vet who's a Democrat, and who isn't? friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #182

I did not call you my "Opposition" or brag about doing "Opposition Research" on you. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #185

"We're all supposed to be on the same team" 'This team' has many, MANY factions... friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #194

We ARE rounded up votes. You with us, or against? sharedvalues Mar 2018 #142

Then support Fix NICS, or your words are merely empty promises friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #154

I do. Do you support assault rifle bans and REAL handgun restrictions sharedvalues Mar 2018 #210

Assault rifle bans are security theater inspired by moral panics... friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #212

US Olympic shooting team..supporting kids deaths? AncientGeezer Mar 2018 #209

They're using children to promote a moral panic, and we've seen the like before: friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #213

It's what's sad. We can't get the votes to truly outlaw black market gun sales. moriah Mar 2018 #86

It would be a start...nt Wounded Bear Mar 2018 #78