General Discussion

AncientGeezer

(2,146 posts)

206. You don't know a "gunner" from a grass hopper.

Mon Mar 5, 2018, 03:50 PM

Mar 2018

Last edited Mon Mar 5, 2018, 05:52 PM - Edit history (1)

But you have stated you know what robbers do. Slam the door. hell lock it on law enforcement....hmmmm? You said it's what you have done.

You certainly show you don't know how NICS chks are done or the info included.
It's an easy process....look at a 4473 form....seller and buyer names are on it.

If as you claim.. that a failed NICS chk would be ignored and the sale/transfer occur...there is IN FACT a record should that happen.
The buyer and the "transforee" have done a NICS chk that went through a DOJ process.

If a free NICS can be done in a private sale, have the private seller keep a copy of it until it may be sold again....unlike your claim though...if a passed NICS chk happens the "dealer" isn't responsible for the illegal actions of the buyer.

U-Haul wasn't responsible for what McVeigh did with their truck in Ok.City were they?
United or American wasn't responsible for what a pack of freaks did to the WTC were they?

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The Liberal Gun Club: We support Fix NICS [View all] friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 OP

And ban assault weapons like AR15. And ban large capacity magazines. And do fun buybacks blake2012 Mar 2018 #1

Something is better than nothing, and this lays the groundwork for future efforts friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #2

The political momentum being built up on gun control cannot end with just the NICS fix blake2012 Mar 2018 #3

"... which does very little to address mounting gun violence." EX500rider Mar 2018 #37

I noticed you stopped at 2014. Homicide rate has gone up since blake2012 Mar 2018 #38

The US homicide rate and Euro rate aren't that far apart. EX500rider Mar 2018 #41

We don't have good data because NRA/GOP banned data - they're afraid of real studies sharedvalues Mar 2018 #60

Rap on your turntable, the record keeps skipping: friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #72

Above I cited a well-done study that says fed funding ban is a big problem. sharedvalues Mar 2018 #75

Ask the head of Everytown For Gun Safety for the funds- he's worth $50 billion: friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #131

Nah. Society funds govt research on car deaths, drug overdoses sharedvalues Mar 2018 #140

A gun control advocate that won't kick in 1% of their net worth is insincere, at best friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #153

Problem is gun-fetishists deny proof. RAND article: solid. Your attacks: ad hominem. sharedvalues Mar 2018 #168

The FBI still mantains stats for homicide/robbery etc EX500rider Mar 2018 #161

Damn right! workinclasszero Mar 2018 #162

Close the private sale/gun show loop hole. Not much of a NICS fix without that. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #4

Required background checks won't work if the checks themselves are faulty- hence Fix NICS friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #5

So you're fine with schizophrenia patients having the ability to buy guns? SunSeeker Mar 2018 #17

No, and I'll thank you to take *your* words out of *my* mouth friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #19

The concept of prior restraint relates to the 1st Am, not the 2nd Am. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #28

"I notice you refuse to answer my question about whether a schizophrenic should have a gun." I did friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #30

Ok, so given you agree schizophrenics shouldn't buy guns... SunSeeker Mar 2018 #34

"How do you propose to prevent schizophrenics from buying guns?" By court hearing friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #39

What are you talking about? Who would set this hearing? Who would be the parties? SunSeeker Mar 2018 #42

A civil order for treatment, not necessarily involuntary confinement in a mental hospital friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #45

That does NOT capture mental illness diagnoses, only involuntary treatment judicial orders. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #46

No. Moral panics are no reason to override the Constitution friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #48

So you think people with schizophrenia should be able to get a gun? SunSeeker Mar 2018 #55

Have you ceased physically abusing your significant other? friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #63

So you think your ends justify any means, even if it means pissing on the Constitution? friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #64

No. I am not pissing on the Constitution, I am applying it. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #85

Have you discontinued physically abusing your significant other? I can do leading questions, too... friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #94

That is just silly. You obviously just want to engage in insults instead of a thoughtful discussion. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #102

Oh, please-you've been trying to pin a strawman argument on me almost since you got to this thread friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #115

You don't offer a plan to stop the dangerously mentally ill from getting guns. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #123

No constitutional right to own assault rifles. sharedvalues Mar 2018 #61

In this instance, you are correct- but you don't have the votes... friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #65

Diagnosed with? Fuck no. That would be a violation of their due process. X_Digger Mar 2018 #143

Reminds you of the 'no fly/terrorist watch lists', no? friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #155

Not if there is notice and opportunity for hearing before it is posted in NICS. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #157

Then it's not about the diagnosis, is it? Make up your mind, eh? X_Digger Mar 2018 #159

What specific diagnoses should be reported to the database? Mental illness on its own is too... Marengo Mar 2018 #87

I would set up a panel of medical professionals to determine that. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #88

Maybe we could apply the same standard to speech, or other things in the Constitution. friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #96

Um, no one shot up a school because they were exercising the 1st, 5th or 8th Am. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #98

"the...mentally ill are the vast majority of mass shooters. You know that." No, *you claimed that... friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #99

There are a LOT more authorities for that than that LATimes article. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #103

You're trying to put a lot of claims in my mouth that I have not made, and will not make friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #116

You trusted Feinstein on her 'assault weapons bans'- but not on this? friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #126

I trust her, I just think this is a pittance and we should demand more. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #127

"Have fun researching me? I'm honored..." Well, knowledge *is* power... friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #129

Yes, knowledge is good. Stalking, not so much. nt SunSeeker Mar 2018 #132

Call it 'opposition research' friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #133

Kinda pathetic to call a fellow DUer "Opposition." That's supposed to be the GOP. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #137

Are we not debating a subject, and are those not your own words? friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #152

Debating does not make me "the Opposition"... unless you're not a Democrat. nt SunSeeker Mar 2018 #158

If you disagree with me, you're not a Democrat? How odd a stance. X_Digger Mar 2018 #169

Calling Democrats "the Opposition" is a pretty "odd stance" for a Democrat. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #170

Funny, I don't read that sentence in the exchange above. Care to point it out? X_Digger Mar 2018 #173

Discussion of gun control at DU tends to attract self-appointed "DU Political Officers"... friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #175

What part of "DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND" do you not understand? SunSeeker Mar 2018 #178

What part of "You're not actually in charge of DU" do you not understand? friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #188

Aww, toddle off. X_Digger Mar 2018 #196

No one called you "the opposition" -and BTW, Democrats most certainly do "opposition research"... friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #179

FIx NICS would be huge IMO - would this not also increase liability for acting outside the system? hexola Mar 2018 #6

Private sales without checks would still be legal- so open NICS to private sellers... friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #7

This would be the right way to do it but the gun prohibition people wont ever do t Lee-Lee Mar 2018 #8

Not criminal - but liable... hexola Mar 2018 #9

No, all the proposed UBC make it criminal to even loan a gun Lee-Lee Mar 2018 #11

Dude, no-one should be teaching gun safety. Weed Man Mar 2018 #27

"Ignorance is strength!", eh? friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #32

That's already true fescuerescue Mar 2018 #16

Someone on CNN described a check system - where buyer and seller get temp permits hexola Mar 2018 #10

Just make a NICS website and app for the public Lee-Lee Mar 2018 #12

"Liberal Gun Club" is like "Progressive Pro-Lifer". nt LexVegas Mar 2018 #13

LOL SunSeeker Mar 2018 #18

This sounds like RWers trying to nullify Roe v. Wade friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #21

No, it doesn't, and no I didn't. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #29

Why would your opinion of what's offensive matter? friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #33

OFFS. Read my reply. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #35

Misguided attempts to derail reform because "it isn't good enough"... friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #40

The 1/6/16 HIPAA rule does not require reporting of mental illness diagnoses. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #43

IIRC, Fix NICS would encode that HIPPA ruling into law friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #44

That does nothing about getting mental illness diagnoses reported. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #47

The ACLU has gone on record strongly opposing what you propose. I concur with them: friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #49

IOW: Moral panics are no reason to erode civil rights friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #50

It's not "moral panics," whatever the hell that means, it's statistics. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #56

You haven't got the votes, and would rather reject a partial fix than compromise friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #71

If we just have the votes for crumbs, then I'll take crumbs. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #80

Category error. Societal right to keep kids alive wins out over right to own lots of guns sharedvalues Mar 2018 #62

Logical fallacy. "Think of the children" is an appeal to emotion, not an argument friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #69

Category error: gun restrictions ARE constitutional. Your original pt re Const: category error. sharedvalues Mar 2018 #77

Make up your mind. Do you want mental illness diagnoses in NICS or not? SunSeeker Mar 2018 #54

No. Not without a court order. What you want is no different than the 'terrorism watch lists'... friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #66

Well, that response suggests you DO want the mentally ill buying guns. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #84

Well, that response suggests you think your cause is more important than due process. friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #108

Not at all, the process I suggest has been held constitutional. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #110

"(T)he process I suggest has been held constitutional." In which Federal court? Cite, please. friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #113

Goldberg v. Kelly-SCOTUS held that pre-termination administrative hearings comply with due process SunSeeker Mar 2018 #120

I have no problem with that, provided a) there are no ex parte hearings, b) they are not held friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #128

Gideon is not applicable. The person is not being charged with a felony. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #135

I can see the Second Amendment Foundation jumping in on such cases friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #144

Apples to sea sponge....not in any way related. AncientGeezer Mar 2018 #138

I find it interesting ... Straw Man Mar 2018 #160

I find it interesting that some here think guns are more important than food. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #167

Nice try, but nowhere did I say or imply that. Straw Man Mar 2018 #171

Wrong, you totally misunderstood Goldberg v. Kelly. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #172

No, I didn't. Straw Man Mar 2018 #174

It is you who is siding with the state; the ruling GOP wants no gun control. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #176

Another straw man from you. Straw Man Mar 2018 #177

There are several more upthread. All that straw in one place is a fire hazard! friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #183

Kindly point out where such a sentiment was expressed. We'll wait... friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #180

When you demanded more protections for denial of gun purchases than are afforded food. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #184

The bar should be higher for termination of welfare benefits. Straw Man Mar 2018 #186

Citizens should be afforded legal counsel in any legal (or quasi-legal) dealings with the state friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #189

That merely shows that welfare hearings are unfair, not that guns are more important than food friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #187

No, you were asserting the NICS administrative hearings I was suggesting were unconstitutional. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #190

You will not improve the lot of welfare recipients one iota by restricting others' rights friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #192

You presume wrongly. I am what you just called "those people." SunSeeker Mar 2018 #198

Due process is a "roadblock"? This isn't 'Authoritarian Underground', and your ...contributions... friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #199

Why Senate Democrats are considering holding up a gun-control bill from one of their own sl8 Mar 2018 #14

History repeats: "Screw that 'half a loaf'! We want the whole thing, or nothing!" friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #26

This "NICS fix" is not half a loaf. It's crumbs. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #57

NICS Fix is what is possible now. Would you prefer to "take a dive" for strategic reasons... friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #67

If all we have the votes for are crumbs, I'll take crumbs. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #83

Three recent mass shootings sarisataka Mar 2018 #15

As long as private sales aren't subject to background checks Crunchy Frog Mar 2018 #20

"As long as private sales aren't subject to background checks" I address this in post #7 friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #23

Sorry, private sellers need to go through FFLs who are accountable for keeping records, etc. Hoyt Mar 2018 #51

This message was self-deleted by its author Hoyt Mar 2018 #52

Not neccessary if private sellers can use the NICS, and its use is made mandatory friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #73

Need to go through FFL who can lose their business if they don't keep records. Private sellers have Hoyt Mar 2018 #81

You have no clue how a NICS checks works do you? AncientGeezer Mar 2018 #89

No, I expect people to do the checks who have their license on the line. Hoyt Mar 2018 #90

Let' run through your list....oh we don't have to because NONE were private sales. AncientGeezer Mar 2018 #91

Sure I am OldGeezer. Do you think those gunners and those who support guns are Hoyt Mar 2018 #149

And robbers and rapists will just steal a gun Lee-Lee Mar 2018 #164

That's exactly why we need to restrict new gun sales. So-called Hoyt Mar 2018 #165

"Men will walk upright now, women will smile and the children will laugh,... friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #195

No doubt, gunners are afraid of, and have no regard for, society. Time that changes. Hoyt Mar 2018 #197

I repeat what I said earlier....you have no clue how NICS works. AncientGeezer Mar 2018 #200

I know damn well how gunners are. FFLs will at least do the background check correctly, not wanting Hoyt Mar 2018 #205

You don't know a "gunner" from a grass hopper. AncientGeezer Mar 2018 #206

When you were a robber, did you get guns from a dealer? friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #97

Its essy enough to enforce- do a private sale without using it and go to jail Lee-Lee Mar 2018 #163

Like that stops gunners from killing and intimidating people. Hoyt Mar 2018 #166

If a NICS check were free for private sales...how is that NOT right? AncientGeezer Mar 2018 #201

Free or very reduced. Straw Man Mar 2018 #202

Very similar here....shop to shop transfer is a full charge NICS.. AncientGeezer Mar 2018 #203

Never liked old adages, but "Fox guarding the hen house," sure comes to mind. Hoyt Mar 2018 #204

FFL's do NOT do the checks they file for checks....DOJ, specificly...ATF does the checks AncientGeezer Mar 2018 #207

Exactly. Straw Man Mar 2018 #208

Checks are conducted by the state or the FBI. sl8 Mar 2018 #211

mandated in 1993??? WTF? spanone Mar 2018 #22

It *was* implemented- but only made mandatory on the Federal level for gun dealers friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #24

thanks! spanone Mar 2018 #25

Exactly. Straw Man Mar 2018 #31

Yeah the complaint it could be abused is nonsense Lee-Lee Mar 2018 #36

Is there a reason you feel it's unreasonable to let a person support their local range... moriah Mar 2018 #92

Do you want to give local ranges/dealers a monopoly on checks? They'll still be free to do them... friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #93

They already have it, and again, I'm trying to throw the people against UBCs crumbs. moriah Mar 2018 #106

Require a photocopy of the buyer's ID. friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #111

So-called Liberal Gun Club has only 2000 members. They lobby Democrats, pushing lax gun Hoyt Mar 2018 #53

Well, this "NICS fix" is certainly weak tea. nt SunSeeker Mar 2018 #58

If you can't get Fix NICS, you certainly can't get even more restrictive laws passed friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #74

This does not "fix" NICS. nt SunSeeker Mar 2018 #79

That's no more or less than your opinion, and you are perfectly free to express it. friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #95

It is a fact. It does NOTHING to expand background checks; it does NOTHING to facilitate reporting. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #100

Tell that to Sandy Hook Promise, who support this- and Dianne Feinstein, who co-sponsored it: friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #105

Well, Dems will take these crumbs when it's the only game in town. Like I said, nice try. nt SunSeeker Mar 2018 #107

Has it occured to you that those Dem co-sponsors might actually think it would work? friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #117

Sure, it might work to do the little it offers to do. nt SunSeeker Mar 2018 #122

Just think them as a source of photos of white gun owners, if nothing else friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #68

Well, that's pretty much what you see in the so-call Liberal Gun Club. My guess is they are just Hoyt Mar 2018 #82

As opposed to locking doors so cops can't get in? Who profits from that? Robbers, right? AncientGeezer Mar 2018 #114

Wouldn't know. I would suggest you and your Discussionist buddies learn Hoyt Mar 2018 #145

"Trying to fool people into believing they are something different " An evidence-free claim... friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #119

Few Democrats lobby legislators to promote more guns in more places. I suspect Hoyt Mar 2018 #146

"Few Democrats lobby legislators to promote more guns in more places." And does LGC do that? friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #148

That's what you get when you search for gun stores or shows, gun lovers, ranges, Hoyt Mar 2018 #150

You sought those photos out, and downloaded them. Do you only download ones with white gun owners? friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #151

Go ahead, search Under Liberal Gun Club and see what you get. Think I saw Dana Loesch. Hoyt Mar 2018 #191

I don't have to, since *you* made the claim- and can't back it up. As usual... friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #193

Your photo choices merely demonstrate your editorial preference, no more and no less friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #181

How about universal background checks. The real stuff, not the GOP backed fake bill sharedvalues Mar 2018 #59

Hasn't got the votes. Or would you rather no progress at all? friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #70

Yes my gay, now-married friend was telling me the same in 2005. sharedvalues Mar 2018 #76

Well then, get busy rounding up the votes. Meanwhile, spare us the "all or nothing" schtick friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #101

This NICS fix is pretty damn close to nothing. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #104

Tell that to Dianne Feinstein, who was one of the original co-sponsors: friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #109

This is Cornyn's baby. She just signed on. Because it's the only game in town. nt SunSeeker Mar 2018 #112

Then support it. There aren't the votes for a AWB, and likely won't be until 2021 at the earliest. friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #118

I'm not saying Dems should vote no, I'm just saying it's crumbs. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #121

You say crumbs...the alternative is nothing...starvation. AncientGeezer Mar 2018 #124

No, the "alternative" is voting yes on this pittance and demanding more. nt SunSeeker Mar 2018 #125

Then urge your Congresscritters to do both- that's the only way change will happen. friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #130

How do we "demand" that while in the minority....? AncientGeezer Mar 2018 #134

We will not be silent. Even if you threaten to take away the crumbs. nt SunSeeker Mar 2018 #136

Give it a shot....we've been down this road OFTEN. AncientGeezer Mar 2018 #139

We are. And this time it appears to be working. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #141

Does "working" mean "attacking the actions of your biggest supporter in Congress... friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #147

I'm not attacking Democratic supporters. nt SunSeeker Mar 2018 #156

In my case, you are. Or do you presume to vet who's a Democrat, and who isn't? friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #182

I did not call you my "Opposition" or brag about doing "Opposition Research" on you. SunSeeker Mar 2018 #185

"We're all supposed to be on the same team" 'This team' has many, MANY factions... friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #194

We ARE rounded up votes. You with us, or against? sharedvalues Mar 2018 #142

Then support Fix NICS, or your words are merely empty promises friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #154

I do. Do you support assault rifle bans and REAL handgun restrictions sharedvalues Mar 2018 #210

Assault rifle bans are security theater inspired by moral panics... friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #212

US Olympic shooting team..supporting kids deaths? AncientGeezer Mar 2018 #209

They're using children to promote a moral panic, and we've seen the like before: friendly_iconoclast Mar 2018 #213

It's what's sad. We can't get the votes to truly outlaw black market gun sales. moriah Mar 2018 #86

It would be a start...nt Wounded Bear Mar 2018 #78