General Discussion
In reply to the discussion: How Bernie Sanders Helped Derail a Promising Legal Fight Against Gun Violence [View all]thucythucy
(8,069 posts)Even so, I'll answer yours,
Yes, the bar should be held accountable, just as the various gun shops should be prosecuted both criminally and, if possible, in civil court. This however doesn't preclude civil action against the brewery, given the circumstances I outlined. My sense is, given the hypotheticals outlined above, a plaintiff would stand a very good chance of prevailing in court. At the very least I think he or she should be allowed at least to try, and not be shut down by some arbitrary legislation specifically exempting breweries from civil litigation. You disagree?
And there are numerous examples of where criminal or even civil regulation breaks down, and leaves as a recourse civil litigation by those damaged by negligence or out and out flaunting of relevant laws and regulations. You're saying that just because law enforcement falls down on the job, people injured by the wrongful actions of others should be denied all recourse in the civil courts? So if the EPA does a shitty job regulating toxic waste dumps, those whose health is damaged by the illegal dumping of such toxins should be precluded from bringing civil action? If the manufacturer of toxic materials knows a subcontractor is violating the law, the fact that the feds don't catch up with the subcontractor means the manufacturer is home free?
Yes, I'd launch an action against the bar as well. One party's culpability doesn't negate or preclude another party also being culpable. There may be varying degrees of culpability, but I'd leave that to the courts to decide, not some arbitrary piece of legislation.
As for the documentation in the suits filed against the gun manufacturers, you're saying this documentation "doesn't exist"? Since the suits never went to trial I wonder how you've reached such a conclusion. Have you read all the briefs that were filed or about to be filed, and had an opportunity to depose witnesses or read their testimony? In my experience, it's often astounding how much documentation of wrong doing might exist, once subpoenas are issued and witnesses are actually deposed. The tobacco industry left voluminous documentation of its efforts to misinform the public after the Surgeon General's 1964 report. You'd be surprised how arrogant corporate players can be, once they believe they'll never be held to account. Surely you've seen instances where that is true.
I answered your questions. Now, if you would, please answer mine. Given the hypotheticals which I've outlined above (which I believe comprise a fairly close analogy to what gun manufacturers have been doing lo these many years), would you be in favor of legislation granting blanket exemption from civil liability to breweries guilty of such knowing and blatant disregard for public safety?
It's a yes or no question. I suspect your discomfort in answering is related to the aptness of my analogy.