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In reply to the discussion: The Things Wrong With Dems [View all]JCanete
(5,272 posts)122. The problem is what the Democrats have done is to continue to pretend that the republicans are
honest actors with a legitimate ideology, even though it is painfully obvious that they have no principles at all, only agendas that benefit the elite. The ends justify any means. Dems may think that's been a winning strategy, and it is certainly how Obama and Biden ran, versus say, Edwards who said we had to treat them as hostile. Between Clinton and Obama, we've won 16 years in the White House while being fairly conciliatory, but the question is whether or not those wins came at a bigger cost. To be fair, as the first black President, this was probably the only winning strategy for Obama. I don't question that, but I question the overall shape of our politics that has come from Democrats being punching bags who practice a lot of bobbing and weaving, and republicans always being the ones throwing the punches.
And over time there has been a massive failure of education in this nation at the hands of a media that has abdicated its duty or misinformed the public, and a government that has done a number on the public.
Even California, a primarily democratic government, massively rich state, has had shitty, poorly funded, public education for decades. why, among all the states in the Union did it take sooo damn long for us to just begin to attempt to properly fund schools? Why were we so low on the list?
This is just to emphasize that Nationally, across party, we have had a problem with priorities, and that problem, while mostly being Republican driven, has been in some ways facilitated or condoned by democrats. The fact that education sucks in this nation and that our voters are uninformed about civics and the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and the contribution of unions is a disaster that again doesn't simply rest at the feet of Republicans. No Child Left Behind doesn't simply rest at the feet of Republicans.
It is certainly the issue that Democrats have felt the need to navigate a world of pretending that the media is legit and pretending that Republicans are just a different ideological face of the same coin of government, but in my opinion the decision to go along to get along so as to not be pummeled by that corporate media for being whiners, has helped to pave the way to where we are today.
To say nothing of how meek we've generally been about voter purges, gerrymandering and electronic voting in general over the years, not as singular voices necessarily, but certainly as a united party.
And its those things (as well as a debacle of a war that had a massive death-toll) that have frustrated hold-outs or 3rd party voters on the left. I think they made a frustratingly wrong decision in this past election. I think they should have been more hopeful, and that post-convention all the signs pointed to a Democratic Party and GE candidate that recognized that what was needed was to listen to and to respond to that left with the most progressive platform the Democratic Party has ever had. I think they should have recognized that that is the best that can be hoped for, that that IS how change is accomplished.
Had our party leadership not listened, well in that circumstance all you have is a 3rd party protest vote or abstaining. If you think the way both parties are driving is ultimately taking us down the same road at various speeds, then I understand that vote. I do. I think if we really hate 3rd party spoilers there's a solution to that that would eliminate spoilers but also make 3rd parties more viable, and that that is something the Democratic party could and should push for rather than to just throw shade at 3rd parties for existing. We could push for run-off voting at state and local levels now. But yeah, in this last election, I think some people were bafflingly unmoved by the DNC's overtures and the threat of Trump.
I understand to some extent the "put the pedal on the gas to wake up the passengers as you drive towards that cliff" metaphor that Trump represents, but that's the desperate move you make if nobody is making a gesture to slow down and turn the car around. Sadly I think some people did willfully ignore the signs. They favored something scary dramatic, and its something that we have yet to see whether we can recover from.We also have yet to see whether or not this simply does more long-term damage to the political landscape, rather than righting anything, even if it wakes us up for an election cycle. We also have yet to see whether even democracy itself will survive the next 2 years. So yeah, I agree it was the wrong call that some people made, whether some did it for truly ideological or petty reasons.
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.. and somehow, some way , someone can justify making this horror the fault of Dems.
JHan
Sep 2018
#4
It's not fair. Democrats get all the criticism and even when you prove the accusation false,
betsuni
Sep 2018
#7
Susan Sarandon is an entitled airhead, not "white feminism in human form." Screw that for a critique
Hekate
Sep 2018
#97
If Sarandon was "white feminism in human form" that would be ironic since she refuses to
betsuni
Sep 2018
#106
Taking some random Tweet about a twit and using it to slur all white women goes way too far
Hekate
Sep 2018
#107
Dems don't take the media and their owners to task in a meaninful consolidated way. We have ceded
JCanete
Sep 2018
#16
My point about Lieberman is that mainstream democrats helped to saddle us with him. The democratic
JCanete
Sep 2018
#18
How many different ways do I have to recognize that Republicans are a problem. But Republicans
JCanete
Sep 2018
#50
Oddly enough I see that sabotage from the other side...constantly going after liberals and their
JCanete
Sep 2018
#53
The problem is what the Democrats have done is to continue to pretend that the republicans are
JCanete
Sep 2018
#122
Yeah....part of the argument is how do you make sure we get the vote. I have a feeling telling
JCanete
Sep 2018
#124
Yes, all corporate donors are bad, because they aren't contributing out of any kind of altruistic
JCanete
Sep 2018
#55
I'll just say its not a purity argument I'm making. Its one of strategy, and I think mainsteam
JCanete
Sep 2018
#59
um...you know that other organizations that support democrats do this right? The only reason
JCanete
Sep 2018
#54
I think that really depends on what kind of impact such a candidate could have...whether
JCanete
Sep 2018
#52
oh, so your version of good media is at least covering the facts on Trump? That's the lowest
JCanete
Sep 2018
#119
Goth you're a broken record and you need new material. No, I don't propose that Sanders use magic
JCanete
Sep 2018
#131
So democrats are supposed to stamp their feet and wait for a magical voter revolution?
Gothmog
Sep 2018
#134
That explanation falls flat. You were talking about electing 'real democrats', not about
JCanete
Sep 2018
#132
Any yet you complain that the press is not paying attention to sanders and his silly proposals
Gothmog
Sep 2018
#133
Most people are not ignoring his proposals. and the news walks a fine line. If it ignores for too
JCanete
Sep 2018
#136
Change has happened to superdelegates, and I remember a certain poster posting a few threads
JCanete
Sep 2018
#141
The quid pro quo for the superdelegate rule is that sanders cannot run without joining party
Gothmog
Sep 2018
#143
I disagree with you that it is bad to question reporting or motives. It is bad to do this in a
JCanete
Sep 2018
#140
Fair enough. And true, Fox and BBC are absolutely not the same. Fox isn't interested in maintaining
JCanete
Sep 2018
#144
You're invested in blaming "the establishment" for the results of 2016 primaries..
JHan
Sep 2018
#66
When the words "rigged" and "primary" are anywhere near each other in a conversation:
betsuni
Sep 2018
#117
"I'm going to declare victory. ... There is no point talking to you any further."
betsuni
Sep 2018
#114
Like the FACT that HIllary is or was one of the most liberal Senators of all time
Eliot Rosewater
Sep 2018
#113