General Discussion

Proud Liberal Dem

(24,796 posts)

28. So, are Democrats like Peterson seriously saying

Mon Jul 29, 2019, 02:09 PM

Jul 2019

that they would only support it if the public and minimum amount of GOPers support it? In that case, he might as well say that he just won't do it because if those are his standards, that ain't never happening. Which raises another question, is it Congress' job to act as our representatives and lead and do things that are potentially unpopular or controversial- or are they just supposed to just follow the polls and do things only if most of them are in agreement or if the votes are already there?

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Why is there an assumption that Impeaching Trump would HELP Trump? [View all] Proud Liberal Dem Jul 2019 OP

Makes no sense to me. Goodheart Jul 2019 #1

I cannot understand that rationale either... kentuck Jul 2019 #2

Well, if we go ahead with it Bettie Jul 2019 #5

I think it's because the senate won't convict, regardless of the evidence. rsdsharp Jul 2019 #3

This. NurseJackie Aug 2019 #185

It defintely helped Pres Clinton . . . Iliyah Jul 2019 #4

I agree customerserviceguy Jul 2019 #94

because the idiot media is under trump's thrall EveHammond13 Jul 2019 #6

Just for me wryter2000 Jul 2019 #7

So, you're just arguing for a slower roll? Proud Liberal Dem Jul 2019 #9

Yes, scandals and investigations during an election year never helps incumbent uponit7771 Jul 2019 #18

Trump really could shoot someone and his base will stick by him. wasupaloopa Jul 2019 #102

His "base" wasn't enough to get him elected last time the dem base revolvted and 3rd parties uponit7771 Jul 2019 #103

it would 100% HELP Trump ! stonecutter357 Jul 2019 #8

There's no historical truth to that not at all. Dams didn't control the government for two election uponit7771 Jul 2019 #19

Every situation is different onenote Jul 2019 #21

Republicans did NOT take a hit, they stayed in control of the government. Gaining or losing uponit7771 Jul 2019 #23

Yes it is taking a hit Trumpocalypse Jul 2019 #137

Again the context is controlling a branch of the government not gaining or losing seats uponit7771 Jul 2019 #141

That maybe your bar Trumpocalypse Jul 2019 #142

That's realities bar, you don't control a branch of the government by just losing or gaining seats uponit7771 Jul 2019 #144

Again that is your bar Trumpocalypse Jul 2019 #150

OK, the constitution does not assign control of a branch of government just off gaining or losing uponit7771 Jul 2019 #151

Actually Trumpocalypse Jul 2019 #154

The impeachment vote on Clinton was in December of 1998 NewJeffCT Jul 2019 #46

+1, controlling the government is the goal not just gaining seats uponit7771 Jul 2019 #57

The OP was asking for explanation/rationale/logic for the argument. honest.abe Jul 2019 #82

!@#$%&*()_++-;:'"/?. stonecutter357 Jul 2019 #132

LOL.. honest.abe Jul 2019 #133

Because impeachment without removal will be viewed as a vindication of trump Gothmog Jul 2019 #10

Trump will say it's a vindication even if he's hauled off to jail in the orange jumpsuit in front of uponit7771 Jul 2019 #20

But in the real world, impeachment without removal could help trump win re-election Gothmog Jul 2019 #26

So, are Democrats like Peterson seriously saying Proud Liberal Dem Jul 2019 #28

I do not want to give the GOP control of the House Gothmog Jul 2019 #42

What is driving the assumption that this *will* happen? Proud Liberal Dem Jul 2019 #52

Nothing, no historical precedence ... NOTHING. uponit7771 Jul 2019 #63

Polling data says that this stunt will hurt Democrats in swing districts Gothmog Jul 2019 #68

Same as Nixon's post Saturday Night Massacre. Again, there's no precedence where impeachment has uponit7771 Jul 2019 #71

Yes there is polling that shows that Democrats could lose swing districts due to this stunt Gothmog Jul 2019 #64

Ok. Well there's that I suppose Proud Liberal Dem Jul 2019 #70

It doesn't, the polling posted was from republicans not some trusted source and pre Nixon polling uponit7771 Jul 2019 #75

We are hopeful of flipping six seats in Texas Gothmog Jul 2019 #76

Bunk polling "...PER NEW GOP POLLING..." really !??! We're supposed to trust any of that?! tia uponit7771 Jul 2019 #73

This message was self-deleted by its author Gothmog Jul 2019 #77

Why do we want to put swing House seats at risk for a stunt that will not work? Gothmog Jul 2019 #78

Based on KGOP polling !?!?!? AGAIN, !?!? You're source is sourcing theHill.com!!!! WTF !? Seriously? uponit7771 Jul 2019 #85

Honey, The Hill is cited all the time on DU. You're reaching... ehrnst Jul 2019 #178

Agree with your assessment totally Thekaspervote Jul 2019 #104

There's no precedence where impeachment has helped a party control any branch of government ... uponit7771 Jul 2019 #62

In the real world, the polling shows that this stunt could cost the Democrats control of the House Gothmog Jul 2019 #79

Bunk ***GOP POLLING***, Again... who in their right mind trust that?! You're source is theHill.com!? uponit7771 Jul 2019 #81

Feel free to ignore the facts but I do not want to give the GOP control of the House Gothmog Jul 2019 #83

There are no facts with ***REPUBLICAN POLLING !!! *** uponit7771 Jul 2019 #88

Sweetie, if you bothered to read the source... ehrnst Jul 2019 #177

I do declah, Goth! You have given someone the very vapahs! ehrnst Jul 2019 #179

The Hill being cited right here on DU? Perish the very thought!!! ehrnst Jul 2019 #180

Trump absolutely dreads being impeached, watoos Jul 2019 #11

What do you think he would do if impeached? ehrnst Jul 2019 #38

Sit on thumbs brutus smith Jul 2019 #44

"Sit on thumbs" ehrnst Jul 2019 #95

Correctly timed? he'd look at his poll numbers tank along with the people who enable him. uponit7771 Jul 2019 #93

Yes, Correctly timed.(nt) ehrnst Jul 2019 #114

OK, is your position that there should be NO impeachment or correctly timed impeachment? tia uponit7771 Jul 2019 #127

No. That is not correct. ehrnst Jul 2019 #148

So no Impeachment? tia uponit7771 Jul 2019 #149

If you read my post you would know that's not correct. Nice try at a straw man, though. ehrnst Jul 2019 #157

Soooooo impeachment at the right time? uponit7771 Jul 2019 #162

*If* there is a right time, where the benefits would outweigh the drawbacks ehrnst Jul 2019 #170

you stated this a number of times stopdiggin Jul 2019 #51

I think many want it because of it would be a catharsis for them. ehrnst Jul 2019 #131

+1, not only that look at Red Dons hysteria post beginning of the impeachment process uponit7771 Jul 2019 #65

I originally thought that based upon the Clinton impeachment aftermath. Vinca Jul 2019 #12

that is my fear as well Proud Liberal Dem Jul 2019 #32

I have not met a SINGLE voter that would meet that definition stopdiggin Jul 2019 #56

Neither have I Trumpocalypse Jul 2019 #139

What evidence is there for that? Trumpocalypse Jul 2019 #138

I think the sooner the better for Trump.. stillcool Jul 2019 #13

Because HE started that assumption and controls the narrative. Claritie Pixie Jul 2019 #14

Who knows with this crazy felon - But here's a Help/Hurt analysis Laura PourMeADrink Jul 2019 #15

Thanks for the thoughtful response. Caliman73 Jul 2019 #25

+1 Proud Liberal Dem Jul 2019 #34

He would claim "exoneration" when the Senate refuses to remove him. ehrnst Jul 2019 #39

He'll claim that anyway, he already has with the Mueller report. He's not sane, so there's no uponit7771 Jul 2019 #67

Actually this discussion is very much about what Trump will or will not do. ehrnst Jul 2019 #159

He'll do crazy crap ... That we know uponit7771 Jul 2019 #161

He seems to get crazier as he feels more cornered. (nt) ehrnst Jul 2019 #171

Way over thinking it :) Laura PourMeADrink Jul 2019 #153

Just because I'm not wringing my hands in despair doesn't mean I'm overthinking it. ehrnst Jul 2019 #158

Instead of tearing into what I said, it would be much Laura PourMeADrink Jul 2019 #155

Would you be helpful and explain to all of us what "the help him position" is? ehrnst Jul 2019 #160

Defend not impeaching please. It is super easy Laura PourMeADrink Jul 2019 #165

So Democrats/Dem leaders who are not calling for impeachment are "helping Trump?" ehrnst Jul 2019 #166

Waiting for your defence points of no Impeachment Laura PourMeADrink Jul 2019 #168

Is that a yes or no? Seems like a simple question. (nt) ehrnst Jul 2019 #169

Crickets... I guess that means the answer is yes. (nt) ehrnst Jul 2019 #172

It sure does seem like you are having a hard time Laura PourMeADrink Jul 2019 #173

You sure are having a hard time with a simple question... ehrnst Jul 2019 #175

You're correct Laura brutus smith Jul 2019 #48

Limp ehrnst Jul 2019 #156

Please defend your position not to impeach Laura PourMeADrink Jul 2019 #174

Please clarify the statement I asked you to clarify before you started evading ehrnst Jul 2019 #176

Get your pro-do-not-impeach defense out there Laura PourMeADrink Jul 2019 #181

Still evading the question, I see. ehrnst Aug 2019 #182

I give up. Doesn't sound like any of us will ever know Laura PourMeADrink Aug 2019 #183

Still won't answer the question. Afraid to? ehrnst Aug 2019 #184

More obfuscation. Just defend your side...think plenty Laura PourMeADrink Aug 2019 #186

See post #187 and #170, then answer my question. If you have the courage. ehrnst Aug 2019 #188

Here's an example setting up a faulty premise or false dilemma, and why it usually fails ehrnst Aug 2019 #187

+1 uponit7771 Jul 2019 #59

The reasoning goes like this: If the Republican majority in the Senate vote against removing Nitram Jul 2019 #16

Presumably Proud Liberal Dem Jul 2019 #24

Raised Clinton's popularity but what did it do for the elections? Caliman73 Jul 2019 #33

The Senate trial was after the election FBaggins Jul 2019 #84

This should be its own OP !! uponit7771 Jul 2019 #96

(asterisks) statistical improbability of a party holding the WH for more than 2 terms, Nader ehrnst Jul 2019 #167

Impeachment has never been a positive for the impeached for the control of government ***NEVER*** uponit7771 Jul 2019 #17

Nor was the fact that all of those impeached were in their parties' second term in the WH. ehrnst Jul 2019 #29

Irrelevant, there are no party term limits in any branch of the US government uponit7771 Jul 2019 #31

Um... you base your assumptions on history, yes? ehrnst Jul 2019 #47

No, facts ... there are no party limits for any branch of the government and there have been parties uponit7771 Jul 2019 #53

Fact: there is no restriction on a party from winning the WH again after impeachment ehrnst Jul 2019 #115

We agree, impeachment has historically made gaining control of branches of government harde uponit7771 Jul 2019 #126

Actually, I don't know how much of a factor it was in subsequent elections, ehrnst Jul 2019 #129

No, not at the beginning for Nixon or Clinton ... the public did not want them out. It was after uponit7771 Jul 2019 #130

Straw man. Never said there were. ehrnst Jul 2019 #98

Irrelevant. Impeachment has never disqualifed a party for a 3rd term in the WH **NEVER*** ehrnst Jul 2019 #49

Strawman, never said it did uponit7771 Jul 2019 #90

Because Bill Clinton DeminPennswoods Jul 2019 #22

It may help the GOP in a few ways if it's timed badly. ehrnst Jul 2019 #27

+1 uponit7771 Jul 2019 #35

So, are there any other ways to meaningfully hold him accountable? Proud Liberal Dem Jul 2019 #36

Calling him out like Democrats are doing, continuing the investigations. ehrnst Jul 2019 #43

If he is as unstable as your comments portray him as (and I agree with you) Proud Liberal Dem Jul 2019 #54

One can leave an abuser. We can't leave this one until 2021. ehrnst Jul 2019 #58

I've never been in an actual abusive situation (personally) Proud Liberal Dem Jul 2019 #66

What "Something" exactly? ehrnst Jul 2019 #105

+1 uponit7771 Jul 2019 #99

Meaningfully being Proud Liberal Dem Jul 2019 #60

So how does impeachment as a political process hold him "more accountable" ehrnst Jul 2019 #106

Impeachment historically reduces the impeached polling numbers when done correctly uponit7771 Jul 2019 #69

what do you mean by "done correctly?" And how would it be "done incorrectly?" ehrnst Jul 2019 #107

Right timing during an election year uponit7771 Jul 2019 #122

Nixon's numbers were OK before Saturday night massacre uponit7771 Jul 2019 #123

Again, we are fortunate that it is Speaker Pelosi who is making this call Gothmog Jul 2019 #121

More republican polling numbers ?! Really ?! uponit7771 Jul 2019 #124

We are fortunate that Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer are calling the shots here Gothmog Jul 2019 #136

If I had to choose anyone to be Speaker right now, based on resume and recommendations, it would be ehrnst Aug 2019 #189

Pelosi is amazing Gothmog Aug 2019 #190

It is evidence free, fear based defeatism nt Fiendish Thingy Jul 2019 #30

+1 Proud Liberal Dem Jul 2019 #37

On whose part? Speaker Pelosi's? The majority of Dems in congress? ehrnst Jul 2019 #41

I was replying to the OP nt Fiendish Thingy Jul 2019 #116

+1, there are few if any factual political reasons against impeachment uponit7771 Jul 2019 #80

Because you say they're not factual? ehrnst Jul 2019 #108

No, reality says they're factual ... and :rolleyes: uponit7771 Jul 2019 #128

They are afraid of the "poor baby" effect. Kablooie Jul 2019 #40

I think it would be more like "The Dems are attacking US!" (nt) ehrnst Jul 2019 #45

"Leave Trump alone!!! Wah!!!" Proud Liberal Dem Jul 2019 #55

Politics is complicated. Caliman73 Jul 2019 #50

to me the difference is while Bill's single downfall was "getting caught with his pants down", he onetexan Jul 2019 #113

It will help him by getting this all out of the way well before the election StarfishSaver Jul 2019 #61

I'm ok if there is a plan and timing must be factored in Proud Liberal Dem Jul 2019 #74

Sharon their plan with you for me who - for even they have a plan - StarfishSaver Jul 2019 #87

+1 uponit7771 Jul 2019 #92

Polling shows that this stunt will hurt Democrats in swing districts Gothmog Jul 2019 #72

-1, this "polling" is based of Republican internal polling and should NOT be trusted. uponit7771 Jul 2019 #100

We are fortunate that Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer are calling the shots here Gothmog Jul 2019 #119

That doesn't address the fact you're taking a position based off of republican polling numbers uponit7771 Jul 2019 #125

Yes it does-Speaker Pelosi is the one making the decision Gothmog Jul 2019 #134

what i'm seeing play out is leadership support for *investigation* over impeachment 0rganism Jul 2019 #86

I dont really get it either. honest.abe Jul 2019 #89

+1,if we're damned if we do and damned if we don't we might as well do the right thing uponit7771 Jul 2019 #101

So, now you're just giving up defending it at all as the only reasonable, sensible choice but ehrnst Jul 2019 #109

His presidency has much, much more for history to damn him with as the worst POTUS ever ehrnst Jul 2019 #110

I think everyone is considering the cons of impeachment. honest.abe Jul 2019 #120

I don't think... Snackshack Jul 2019 #91

Nixon was not impeached. He resigned before he could be impeached. wasupaloopa Jul 2019 #97

Do you really think Trump might resign if impeached? Knowing he'll be indicted when out of office? ehrnst Jul 2019 #118

No I never implied he would wasupaloopa Jul 2019 #135

These are your words, yes? ehrnst Jul 2019 #140

I was correcting the idea that 4 presidents were impeached. wasupaloopa Jul 2019 #145

Apology accepted. And it was only 2 presidents, actually. ehrnst Jul 2019 #147

Wasn't he impeached but resigned before conviction? Proud Liberal Dem Jul 2019 #164

Because of how the media reports things as they did with Mueller JI7 Jul 2019 #111

Comparing Trump to Clinton is not a good comparison Poiuyt Jul 2019 #112

But what about a Dem Senator incumbent candidate in a Red state having to vote yes for impeachment? ehrnst Jul 2019 #117

The impeachment inquiry we're doing now is perfect. gulliver Jul 2019 #143

+1 uponit7771 Jul 2019 #146

It's not really an Impeachment Inquiry per se Proud Liberal Dem Jul 2019 #163

Republicans "won" all three branches in 2000. BlueTsunami2018 Jul 2019 #152