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George II

(67,782 posts)

121. Are you calling President Biden a liar who is "moving the goalposts"?

Reply to wellst0nev0ter (Reply #45)

Thu Dec 16, 2021, 11:33 PM

Dec 2021

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The Squad was right to vote against infrastructure bill Part 2: Manchin snubs constituents [View all] wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 OP

So Sherman A1 Dec 2021 #1

Right now you effectively have worse than nothing wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #4

... mcar Dec 2021 #6

My feeling exactly n/t Just_Vote_Dem Dec 2021 #14

Yes, it's ridiculous. betsuni Dec 2021 #28

I disagree LetMyPeopleVote Dec 2021 #7

The something led to Biden's poll numbers dropping wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #11

Who said his poll #'s dropped? Who ran that poll? Budi Dec 2021 #12

Read it. Learn it. Live it. wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #18

OOOOHHHH YAAAA. WAPO. Budi Dec 2021 #19

If it's already debunked, then let's see the evidence wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #20

That's from more than a month ago. This is current - "Read it. Learn it. Live it."..... George II Dec 2021 #90

I would not read that anti-Democratic Party rag...cancelled my subscription in fact. Demsrule86 Dec 2021 #178

If you do not like Senator Manchin then help elect more Democratic Senators LetMyPeopleVote Dec 2021 #258

You cite a month old poll. Just admit you made a talking point up. Drunken Irishman Dec 2021 #277

Again, I trust President Joe Biden LetMyPeopleVote Dec 2021 #24

So BBB will be passed by Christmas wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #33

Read President Biden's statement or have someone read it for you LetMyPeopleVote Dec 2021 #40

Oh, now it's "as early as possible" wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #43

Then they will keep working on the bill until it is passed. TexasTowelie Dec 2021 #44

Then that means the Christmas deadline was bunk wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #45

That's part of the legislative process. TexasTowelie Dec 2021 #91

Nowhere in the post mentioned Biden wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #125

Why, you've made plenty of false accusations yourself? TexasTowelie Dec 2021 #140

Name the false accusations wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #148

So you can alert and get my post hidden? TexasTowelie Dec 2021 #152

You need to be specific wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #154

No I don't. TexasTowelie Dec 2021 #157

All I said about Manchinema wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #163

Why do you keep using that derogatory insulting nickname? George II Dec 2021 #191

Its clearly a Portmanteau Cuthbert Allgood Dec 2021 #207

It's a disrespectful nickname for two Democratic Senators and a malicious caricature. George II Dec 2021 #208

I'm sorry. I'll PM you first before I respond to make sure it's an appropriate response. Cuthbert Allgood Dec 2021 #209

It's just curious that in such a long discussion you skipped almost down to the bottom to address... George II Dec 2021 #211

What? "Manchinema"? wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #228

ROTFL. TexasTowelie Dec 2021 #215

"Observable facts" are subjective, particularly if one isn't directly involved in the conversation.. George II Dec 2021 #223

If those talks with Manchinema bore fruit, we would see them by now wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #229

Are you calling President Biden a liar who is "moving the goalposts"? George II Dec 2021 #121

All I know is that there was a plan to pass BBB by Christmas wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #123

There have been plans to pass it all year. Plans often don't work out. Gone, poof. betsuni Dec 2021 #144

When you're constantly shifting goals wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #146

Like how the goal was shifted from six trillion to a lower amount? betsuni Dec 2021 #175

So negotiating in good faith and coming to the middle is bad. Got it. wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #232

You said, "Some roads will be fixed, but not all" so yes, you think coming to the middle is betsuni Dec 2021 #237

I was talking about BBB wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #238

Oh, that "Nothing is better than something" is different. Not. betsuni Dec 2021 #243

And when you are constantly setting unrealistic goals TexasTowelie Dec 2021 #250

There was a hope it would pass by Christmas. Welcome to Congressional politics. George II Dec 2021 #198

You mean welcome to another midterm thumping wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #199

Correct. ALL Democrats should support and vote for ALL Democratic bills. Seems you selectively... George II Dec 2021 #202

I give this spin a thumbs down and a curtsy wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #203

In trudging thru this thread I figured out that somebody did not get their sparkle-pony.... Hekate Dec 2021 #253

+1 George II Dec 2021 #254

Somebody's pretending that Santa PROMISED the sparkle pony for Christmas. betsuni Dec 2021 #257

We can always call him Santamanchinema... sheshe2 Dec 2021 #259

Please...it takes time and patience to pass that bill...why don't you ask both sides to Demsrule86 Dec 2021 #179

His poll numbers have dropped due to inflation iemanja Dec 2021 #134

Then why hasn't there been a boost in the polls? wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #136

I'm so sorry that bridges will be fixed rather than collapsing iemanja Dec 2021 #141

There has been. George II Dec 2021 #189

No it didn't. The foot dragging on infrastructure, Afghanistan (where even Democrats castigated Demsrule86 Dec 2021 #177

Again, this is going to be get done in the real world LetMyPeopleVote Dec 2021 #255

Thank you. This is getting so old. nt Hekate Dec 2021 #251

You are certainly entitled to your opinion Sherman A1 Dec 2021 #15

+1, with poor messaging mechanics we're not going to get the positive word out like we should and uponit7771 Dec 2021 #30

So "You Didn't Clap Hard Enough" will be the excuse for 2022? wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #38

No, we need to execute on all cylinders we're missing one with message mechanics uponit7771 Dec 2021 #65

And what message does punting on BBB till the next year send? wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #68

The same as if we passed it without good message mechanics; pretty much BAU, .... uponit7771 Dec 2021 #74

Promising a Christmas deadline, then punting, is not good message discipline wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #79

It sure seems like you are disappointed in President Biden's messaging. TexasTowelie Dec 2021 #97

This is poor communications wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #102

Possibly, but if there is something to be learned TexasTowelie Dec 2021 #106

The "poor communications" refers to a DU post wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #113

Is that your own post? nt TexasTowelie Dec 2021 #133

Wrong wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #135

Your reply reminds me that some people are never satisfied. nt TexasTowelie Dec 2021 #41

You have no idea you're talking about. rockfordfile Dec 2021 #116

Biden's poll number is still underwater wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #119

Are you applauding that? You think poll numbers are based on one single bill? George II Dec 2021 #194

According to 538, Biden's aggregates only inched up about a point from November's low wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #200

Spreading more cynicism again I see. TexasTowelie Dec 2021 #217

There is good stuff in the infrastructure bill. As for the midterms, we have a better chance with Demsrule86 Dec 2021 #176

Think it is better BIF was passed. The idea of linking the bills was stupid, Hoyt Dec 2021 #2

And probably cost us Virginia, suggesting the inability of Democrats to govern question everything Dec 2021 #3

Manchinema could have just voted for the entire package in the summer wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #10

Squad could have just voted yes too. Budi Dec 2021 #21

Makes for sense to pressure the radical minority holdouts to vote yes wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #23

Who is this "radical minority" of which you speak? So far.... George II Dec 2021 #192

And the Progressive House members could have voted for infrastructure in September instead Demsrule86 Dec 2021 #180

This mcar Dec 2021 #214

Bullseye JustAnotherGen Dec 2021 #240

The idea of not passing a single bill was stupider wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #5

So it was all or nothing for you? TexasTowelie Dec 2021 #219

How many times have Democrats lost elections by not doing enough? wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #226

If voters already reject Democrats because they are left of center, TexasTowelie Dec 2021 #230

And voters embrace Republicans because they are moderates? wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #234

I am thinking logically. TexasTowelie Dec 2021 #235

This is precisely 1972, 1984 thinking wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #236

I might be convinced if Justice Democrats could win in districts TexasTowelie Dec 2021 #249

Bif is a prime example of using public money to build infrastructure questionseverything Dec 2021 #29

That change occured weeks after the VA elelection. N/T lapucelle Dec 2021 #269

The upper level income change was written into the same bill questionseverything Dec 2021 #272

'Know when to hold and know when to fold': Progressives accept limits of their power LetMyPeopleVote Dec 2021 #8

So you're happy to see most of Biden's agenda being killed wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #9

Whoa...that's quite a stumpin for the "Nothing is better than something" spin Budi Dec 2021 #16

I was arguing that you can get everything if you play your cards right wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #17

The myth that getting the whole pie is the only righteous thing to do and that rejecting half the betsuni Dec 2021 #27

Right now Manchinema is getting the whole pie wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #31

What people? Biden: "My team and I are having ongoing discussions with Senator Manchin; betsuni Dec 2021 #39

Didn't you read the OP wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #42

So what people should put a stop to it? betsuni Dec 2021 #54

The Democratic Majority for Israel should be put on the case wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #58

What would they be able to do? betsuni Dec 2021 #105

Swoop in and do ad buys, for one. wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #110

Targeted at constituents to pressure Manchin and Sinema to vote for it? But they ignore constituents betsuni Dec 2021 #164

We need to pay closer attention to recent history wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #167

No evidence an ad made a difference. The effort to get Manchin to support the rescue plan betsuni Dec 2021 #172

I recall one senator asking for a $6 trillion package. TexasTowelie Dec 2021 #88

I've heard that fighting hard enough brings victory. betsuni Dec 2021 #166

So did the squad play their cards right? TexasTowelie Dec 2021 #108

Right now, the Squad looks like they made the right call wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #112

Did the Squad get everything that they wanted? TexasTowelie Dec 2021 #128

The Squad and the progressives gave up concessions after consessions wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #131

So the Squad and progressives gave up concessions. TexasTowelie Dec 2021 #143

That's called negotiating with a bad-faith partner wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #145

. TexasTowelie Dec 2021 #149

Yes, we need to get past the spin wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #155

That effort needs to come from both sides. TexasTowelie Dec 2021 #161

The only folks who look foolish are the uninformed. lapucelle Dec 2021 #264

That is the problem, you never get everything...and the more you 'play', the less likely it is Demsrule86 Dec 2021 #181

Again I live in the real world and I trust President Biden LetMyPeopleVote Dec 2021 #25

That's Biden conceding BBB won't get passed by Christmas wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #62

Who is Manchinema? TexasTowelie Dec 2021 #104

We need to stop being precious over what we call bad actors wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #111

So you wouldn't have a problem if I called the Squad a derogatory name? TexasTowelie Dec 2021 #124

Anyone can call the Squad names wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #127

There are plenty of Democrats that do not like the Squad. TexasTowelie Dec 2021 #130

The Dems that don't like the Squad wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #132

Why should we have to explain? TexasTowelie Dec 2021 #142

Those who don't like the Squad wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #147

What makes you believe that we haven't already reflected on that? TexasTowelie Dec 2021 #150

The Squad are disliked for the same reason Rosa Parks radius777 Dec 2021 #158

No other words needed wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #162

This is my favorite. The "Yer racist, you wealthy white centrist/moderates, same as Republicans" betsuni Dec 2021 #187

That happened frequently with me last August. I was repeatedly accused of not supporting.... George II Dec 2021 #196

When there aren't policy goal differences, go after character. betsuni Dec 2021 #197

Dem agenda is failing PoC, only thing they passed is white man's jobs bill ie BIF. radius777 Dec 2021 #247

50-50 senate, completely dysfunctional opposition party. That's what's wrong. betsuni Dec 2021 #248

Are you serious? You're now introducing race into a vigorous political debate here? Has.... George II Dec 2021 #195

How dare you call me racist? mcar Dec 2021 #218

"BTW, Manchin and Sinema drive me crazy too" wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #227

Huh? mcar Dec 2021 #231

Who specifically called you racist? wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #233

Nice try mcar Dec 2021 #239

No, I am truly curious wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #242

mcar is correct. sheshe2 Dec 2021 #260

No.. they're good. Cha Dec 2021 #246

Okay, using your logic would it make sense to say "Dems who don't like the BIF need to question.... George II Dec 2021 #252

So, it's perfectly fine for you to call Democratic senators mcar Dec 2021 #216

It is, and that member has engaged with that derogatory nonsense throughout the thread. TexasTowelie Dec 2021 #220

Nor do they call them racist mcar Dec 2021 #225

And there in lies the problem...'the other side'...we should all be on the same side...what is Demsrule86 Dec 2021 #182

So what? Why is that so important? LetMyPeopleVote Dec 2021 #256

There is a segment that seems really happy Bettie Dec 2021 #32

Call it the Corbyn Effect wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #34

Progressives are part of our party and yes we expect that they will support Democrats. Demsrule86 Dec 2021 #183

Lobbing accusations at other Democrats? TexasTowelie Dec 2021 #224

Classic binary thinking. nt TexasTowelie Dec 2021 #85

Only way to interpret that post n/t wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #87

No it isn't, you are making an assumption TexasTowelie Dec 2021 #92

Why would you ever say that? Your Cha Dec 2021 #245

I never understood why it was separated into two bills in the first place MichMan Dec 2021 #13

Progressives are loyal to the fault to Biden wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #35

... sheshe2 Dec 2021 #47

Ummm.. the squad has voted against Biden & Dems more than Manchin has. Budi Dec 2021 #80

Talking about the Progressive Caucus wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #83

. TexasTowelie Dec 2021 #96

A number of them voted against infrastructure...I don't consider that loyal... Demsrule86 Dec 2021 #184

THEY KNEW budkin Dec 2021 #22

They certainly did wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #36

But, to be fair, had they all voted for it Bettie Dec 2021 #51

What makes you think a joined bill would have passed? iemanja Dec 2021 #26

Because they passed the Rescue Plan with few concessions. wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #37

Manchinema? I like that, it suits them both. Autumn Dec 2021 #56

Apparently this is more acceptable than an epithet that rhymes with "Trader Joe's" wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #61

They severed it because Manchinema wouldn't vote for it otherwise iemanja Dec 2021 #63

That was called a "bluff" wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #66

Are they bluffing now? iemanja Dec 2021 #69

They now have room to slow-walk BBB till it dies wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #71

They are outcasts iemanja Dec 2021 #72

No, Democrats are still placating them wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #73

Only because the Dems have no choice iemanja Dec 2021 #75

If they are truly outcasts, Democrats would tell Manchinema to take it or leave it wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #76

Are you saying they are good actors? iemanja Dec 2021 #78

The bad actors are Manchinema wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #82

Okay, we agree iemanja Dec 2021 #84

Yes we agree wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #86

I think Manchin enjoys the power over the Dems iemanja Dec 2021 #89

Krysten Sinema is to the left of two squad members who voted against the President's bill. lapucelle Dec 2021 #266

That graph says nothing about her being to the left iemanja Dec 2021 #273

No one claimed she is "to the left of the rest of Democrats". lapucelle Dec 2021 #274

She is holding up the voting rights bill iemanja Dec 2021 #275

Senator Sinema is a co-sponsor on Senator Klobuchar's Freedom to Vote Act. lapucelle Dec 2021 #276

What's "Manchinima", a disrespectful nickname for someone? George II Dec 2021 #46

*Manchinema wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #48

Ok, what's "Manchinema"? Is that intended to be a disrespectful nickname for someone? George II Dec 2021 #49

You had one chance wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #50

In other words it's a disrespectful nickname for a Democrat or two. We get it. George II Dec 2021 #53

Sounds like the old right-wing term "Billary" to me. NYC Liberal Dec 2021 #168

Yep. Its disappointing when civil discourse deteriorates to name calling and insults. George II Dec 2021 #188

Yes, Sinema and Manchin iemanja Dec 2021 #64

Ok then, it's Manchin and Sinema, not Manchinema. George II Dec 2021 #67

Why should you even care? iemanja Dec 2021 #70

I respect Democrats, even those I might disagree with. It's as disrespectful as when republicans.... George II Dec 2021 #77

I support Biden's agenda iemanja Dec 2021 #81

According to projects.fivethirtyeight.com, both Manchin and Sinema support Biden's agenda, too.... George II Dec 2021 #95

and what do you call their positions on voting rights and build back better? iemanja Dec 2021 #98

Manchin is one of the original co-sponsors of Sen. Klobuchar's Freedom to Vote Act. lapucelle Dec 2021 #265

So you're telling us that six Democrats are more clairvoyant than 215 other Democrats? George II Dec 2021 #52

They wanted Manchinema to prove them wrong and make them eat crow wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #55

And you know that how? I don't understand how a vote in the House would have anything to do.... George II Dec 2021 #57

Here's AOC's Instagram stream explaining her "no" vote wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #60

If you have to explain why you voted a certain way on a bill, then you've already lost. TexasTowelie Dec 2021 #94

Her audience knows why she voted against BIF wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #103

Bologna. TexasTowelie Dec 2021 #115

Credit where credit is due wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #122

If we need a clairvoyant we could always get a consultation TexasTowelie Dec 2021 #137

Anyone not blinded by Squad hate could see this coming. wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #153

What is "Squad hate?" TexasTowelie Dec 2021 #156

A legislator's job is not to play to a twitter "audience". It's to represent constituents. lapucelle Dec 2021 #262

+1 betsuni Dec 2021 #263

Yes, at a time when.... George II Dec 2021 #100

It takes a truly special person wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #109

Try driving on any major highway at 8AM or 5PM in New York City.... George II Dec 2021 #118

I don't. I take the subways wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #120

Then you experienced this? George II Dec 2021 #126

Did you read my post? wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #129

That "small fraction" is a characterization - it's $10.6 BILLION. Two NYC Representatives.... George II Dec 2021 #138

Annual MTA revenues say what? wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #151

We seem to be going around in circles. Didn't you make a comment about... George II Dec 2021 #190

Because we left a lot more than $10 billion on the table wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #201

No we didn't. The bill was worth $1.2 TRILLION, not $10 billion. It's not complicated, in fact.... George II Dec 2021 #204

More funding for the flooded MTA, boss, remember? wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #205

Representatives who voted Nay were willing to settle for zero. There were 206 total who voted Nay... George II Dec 2021 #206

I already addressed and debunked the false binary in the OP, sport wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #210

I'm not "sport", you like to play fast and loose with your offensive nicknames.... George II Dec 2021 #212

Post removed Post removed Dec 2021 #241

"Politics make strange bedfellows".. they Cha Dec 2021 #244

Hint 1: Annual MTA revenue funds day-to-day operating expenses. lapucelle Dec 2021 #267

Hope she does fall in line. n/t ChazII Dec 2021 #59

Interesting UCmeNdc Dec 2021 #93

So do you know what they are chatting about? TexasTowelie Dec 2021 #99

What's the point? All Senators walk around the floor and mingle, Democrats w/ republicans.... George II Dec 2021 #107

How long did it take to find this screenshot? wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #114

After I got onto C-Span, about 30 seconds. Your point? George II Dec 2021 #139

Had to applaud your effort, man wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #171

I've had plenty of meetings with elected officials rescheduled. brooklynite Dec 2021 #101

When is rescheduling ever a good look? wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #117

Doesn't the OP claim that leaving trillions on the table is a good look if The Squad does it? lapucelle Dec 2021 #268

People losing the expanded child tax credit is going to be devastating questionseverything Dec 2021 #159

What evidence is there that there was ever "leverage"? brooklynite Dec 2021 #193

See post 29 questionseverything Dec 2021 #213

Post 29 doesn't contain evidence about leverage. N/T lapucelle Dec 2021 #270

Nothing is never better than something. tirebiter Dec 2021 #160

Some roads will be fixed, not all wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #165

It is s start...none would have been fixed had we not passed infrastructure. Demsrule86 Dec 2021 #185

If not all roads will be fixed, give up, do not fight. Nothing is better than something. betsuni Dec 2021 #186

theme song for some of these comments Celerity Dec 2021 #169

Hit dogs will holler loud wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #170

Like the ones hollering about imaginary "broken promises" by Biden! betsuni Dec 2021 #173

No, they were not correct. Had they won that vote, we would have two bills going nowhere. Demsrule86 Dec 2021 #174

Manchin just oozes with good faith. Politicub Dec 2021 #221

Yes it was. The admin majorly FUBARed the handling of it berni_mccoy Dec 2021 #222

Squad Games Polybius Dec 2021 #261

I for one always expected Lucy to yet again move the football away pecosbob Dec 2021 #271