Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

hunter

(38,311 posts)
29. The double slit experiment with individual electrons suggests the marble is gray.
Sat Mar 9, 2013, 03:15 PM
Mar 2013

The entanglement of two particles is answered with "Red or Blue" in your analogy. Other experiments at this scale do not have simple "Red or Blue" answers. For example, the behavior of individual electrons passing through a double slit.

Here's how electrons sort out if they are launched one at a time through a double slit:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-slit_experiment

You end up with the same interference pattern you get with light.

It's a bit much to ask that all these electrons are impressed with some invisible state that predetermines their behavior if an experimenter should happen to place a double slit in their path. The more elegant explanation is that each electron is interfering with itself as it passes through both slits as a wave.

In a similar fashion it is the more elegant to say the state of each particle in an entangled pair is undetermined. Occam's razor isn't always the best tool to use, but in this case should you decide this state is already determined but hidden at the instant of entanglement you end up with an explanation of the cosmos where "it's turtles all the way down" or my favorite, that we live in a one electron universe, which makes it a very, very busy electron.

People are intuitively comfortable with light as waves, which is how we ended up with ether theory and such, but we are less comfortable with massive "particles" such as electrons, entire buckyball molecules, or even "solid" beings such as ourselves as waves. We don't want to see ourselves as tiny ripples of energy on the surface of an unimaginably large and highly energetic universe.

I'm a fan of John Cramer's work because it makes me think. Unlike myself, who can only spin analogies, he can do the math. If we are lucky his lines of experimentation will break some of the commonly accepted theories of everything.

http://faculty.washington.edu/jcramer/NLS/NL_signal.htm

Personally I don't think time travel or faster than light travel is possible simply because time itself does not exist except as an artifact of our own perception and physical state. We can say to ourselves, "Look, I won't sleep there because a bear might eat me" but we never say, "Look, I won't sleep there because a bear ate me." But it's possible those two statements have the same meaning. It seems likely to me the past isn't pinned down in place any more than the future is. If the past is as fluid as the future appears to be, how would we know? We only exist in the present.

Such speeds would actually make interplanetary travel outside our Solar system somewhat more apocalypsehow Mar 2013 #1
such speeds make time travel possible, for information at least MjolnirTime Mar 2013 #2
+186,282. apocalypsehow Mar 2013 #3
Wouldn't that be strange. sofa king Mar 2013 #30
Acceleration would be a big problem Fearless Mar 2013 #9
Says you Duer 157099 Mar 2013 #22
according to the Copenhagen interpretation, it HAS TO BE instantaneous. Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #4
Exactly. RagAss Mar 2013 #23
So if I'm understanding this right... white_wolf Mar 2013 #5
Its rather that the concept of space doesn't apply to quantum entaglement bhikkhu Mar 2013 #6
That's what I'm getting from all of this too. As Spock would say, "Fascinating.".... OldDem2012 Mar 2013 #7
Yup! burrowowl Mar 2013 #21
Nope, that would be incorrect. longship Mar 2013 #10
Quantum teleportation cannot be used to transmit information. redgreenandblue Mar 2013 #12
Well, you know what sammie hagar once said... Javaman Mar 2013 #13
Could it be that the two entangled particles are actually the same particle? Kablooie Mar 2013 #8
+1 bigtree Mar 2013 #15
I don't think that's it... ljm2002 Mar 2013 #16
I always liked that idea. hunter Mar 2013 #17
It is not a great analogy, but think of marbles Thor_MN Mar 2013 #11
That's not the way it works though. hunter Mar 2013 #14
But then there isn't much distance the way you do it.... Reread what I posted. Thor_MN Mar 2013 #19
Except it's not. The state of each particle is undefined until the state of one has a consequence. hunter Mar 2013 #20
I said it wasn't a perfect analogy in the first post, you may have missed that. Thor_MN Mar 2013 #25
The double slit experiment with individual electrons suggests the marble is gray. hunter Mar 2013 #29
You have done a double slit experiment with marbles? Thor_MN Mar 2013 #33
They are like twins or soul mates who have an inverse reaction to each other's experiences? Jamastiene Mar 2013 #18
Time and space are properties of perception. Not real entities. RagAss Mar 2013 #24
I believe its instantaneous DCBob Mar 2013 #26
And I believe it is not instantaneous 1-Old-Man Mar 2013 #31
Far out, but not out of sight Berlum Mar 2013 #27
Argh! This makes my head hurt! Hulk Smash Mar 2013 #28
Actually, it's more like they FAILED to measure the speed. nt. MineralMan Mar 2013 #32
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»physicists measure speed ...»Reply #29