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Gravitycollapse

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141. The very women they claim to be speaking for.

Reply to DirkGently (Reply #140)

Thu Apr 11, 2013, 09:29 PM

Apr 2013

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FEMEN Protests: Nobody Asked This Group to Speak For Oppressed Muslim Women [View all] Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 OP

I guess anybody who is going to protest something Trajan Apr 2013 #1

Two things: 1. This protest is not in the US. 2. No one is saying they can't protest. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #4

You said it yourself in your OP. You are telling them how and where they can protest. nt stevenleser Apr 2013 #9

No, I didn't say anything in my OP. I posted an article. Maybe you should read before commenting. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #10

If you post an OP with a specific opinion and include no commentary saying you disagree, its a fair stevenleser Apr 2013 #12

So unless I say I disagree, you assume I've written the article. Right...makes perfect sense. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #15

No, I would never assume you wrote the article. nt stevenleser Apr 2013 #17

"You said it yourself in your OP." - You assumed exactly that. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #19

No, I didnt. nt stevenleser Apr 2013 #20

by Hannah Kapp-Klote "it’s just colonialism" Coyotl Apr 2013 #2

White European hijacking of Muslim women identity is in fact a form of colonialism. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #3

Good thing noone is doing that then. Coyotl Apr 2013 #5

Actually FEMEN is doing exactly that. Assuming the identity of Muslim women. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #6

No, they are not. See my #7 below. nt stevenleser Apr 2013 #8

Yes they are. Protesting in France as if someone is oppressing them... Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #14

Your characterization is ridiculous. This exception is only for women's rights it seems. stevenleser Apr 2013 #16

Actually, all of those protests are problematic for similar reasons. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #18

Your new ridiculous protest rules aside, Femen has local branches doing what the locals want to do. stevenleser Apr 2013 #21

Please tell me you're not a journalist. She was not kidnapped nor interned. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #24

Your information is wrong. I spoke directly to the person who was talking to her. stevenleser Apr 2013 #26

No, my information is right. As shown below. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #37

We'll see what she says when she is no longer in Tunisia. I trust my source who you will hear stevenleser Apr 2013 #58

You are once again removing her agency. Her word can't be trusted in it's current capacity, right? Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #62

When her life is threatened you mean? How many facts do you intend to ignore here? nt stevenleser Apr 2013 #69

Your assumption is that she would lie when her life is threatened. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #71

I make no assumptions either way. You assume she is telling the truth. nt stevenleser Apr 2013 #73

And you assume she is lying. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #79

No, I said let's see what she said when she is no longer in Tunisia. Try some reading comp maybe? stevenleser Apr 2013 #86

In her current capacity she states: “I have fear for my life and the life of my family,” idwiyo Apr 2013 #194

Steven, can you post a link to that interview and when its going to air? I'm very interested riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #93

Sure thing. There will be a link by midday on Saturday. But you can always see my shows by... stevenleser Apr 2013 #108

you mean the internet blogger with ties to Freedom House? Maybe you don't want to go there HiPointDem Apr 2013 #123

Amina, herself, does not make the claim that she was thrown into a psych hospital. Luminous Animal Apr 2013 #36

This kind of demonstrates just how disconnected FEMEN is from the woman. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #39

No, that is your biased opinion. nt stevenleser Apr 2013 #60

Are you speaking as ONE Muslim woman? etherealtruth Apr 2013 #44

I am not a Muslim woman. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #50

You have a large number of Muslim women within your social circles ... etherealtruth Apr 2013 #55

That established, you don't seem to have a problem with speaking for them. idwiyo Apr 2013 #160

Perhaps, but that is not what Femen is doing. stevenleser Apr 2013 #7

Agreed. Looking forward to your interview. Coyotl Apr 2013 #187

I think everyone will be surprised by just how sharp Inna Shevchenko is, particularly her detractors stevenleser Apr 2013 #192

You forgot a thinly veiled accusation that she is paid by someone else to do what she does idwiyo Apr 2013 #201

I've seen some of that, and uglier versions of it where the person or persons are Ukranian "Jew(s)" stevenleser Apr 2013 #202

I hope not on DU. REALLY hope not here. Definitely wouldn't be surprised if you saw it on the Web. idwiyo Apr 2013 #203

No, not here on DU. At least not yet. Many Youtube videos showing Femen protests have comments that stevenleser Apr 2013 #204

Yeah, most of them definitely are coming from Eastern Europe and Russia in particular. idwiyo Apr 2013 #205

One arab woman is baring her breasts. Tens of thousands of arab women are out protesting HiPointDem Apr 2013 #124

FEMEN speaks for me! Let my manly chest be seen! randome Apr 2013 #11

I'm glad they offended some people, at least. Quantess Apr 2013 #13

Yup. HappyMe Apr 2013 #22

+1 idwiyo Apr 2013 #118

I was under the impression Amina did ask LadyHawkAZ Apr 2013 #23

What has FEMEN accomplished besides gaining attention for FEMEN? Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #25

Is that any of your business unless you're Muslim? randome Apr 2013 #28

It is the business of the Muslim women who are against FEMEN. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #31

But the business of Muslim women is none of your business. randome Apr 2013 #40

They likely do not want nor need my help. I am here attempting to express that point. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #45

And that person is making clear how ridiculous that position is. nt stevenleser Apr 2013 #72

Why didn't you ask Shevchenko about this statement? Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #83

I talked to her about that and more. nt stevenleser Apr 2013 #87

And what did she say? Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #90

I'm guessing he wants you to listen to his show. I've asked for a link to date and time above nt riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #94

So he's just here to plug his radio show. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #97

Oh yeah right, like Steve hasn't offered up many points of discussion with you OUTSIDE his show riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #100

That person illustrates their intellectual dishonesty over and over again. stevenleser Apr 2013 #175

Are you a Muslim woman? LadyHawkAZ Apr 2013 #41

I am not a Muslim woman. Nor do I claim to represent the interests of Muslim women. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #43

Then why did you make this thread? LadyHawkAZ Apr 2013 #46

Because I believe FEMEN is a deceptive, neo-colonial organization. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #47

But you can't make that determination, see LadyHawkAZ Apr 2013 #51

Amina has become a chess piece to FEMEN. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #59

Amina IS Femen. She started Femen Tunisia. You have it backwards. Here is a link stevenleser Apr 2013 #61

I already know all of that. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #65

You act as if you dont. nt stevenleser Apr 2013 #66

LOL. RainDog Apr 2013 #76

I believe the same thing about Gravitycollapse. randome Apr 2013 #52

But Amina is Muslim and belongs to FEMEN. You appear to be offering up a conundrum. riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #57

There is no evidence that Amina is Muslim. Her participation in FEMEN demonstrates just the opposite Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #159

So now you are just making shit up. That's fucked up. riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #164

Why would a Muslim participate in a group that is anti-Islam? Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #170

Why not? I can think about a number of reason why. One of them could be a sincere belief that idwiyo Apr 2013 #176

You might be interested in listening to Ms. Toad Apr 2013 #225

Thank you, its a good interview. There is defintely an urgent need for more scholars idwiyo Apr 2013 #228

I'm less familiar with UK quakers than US Friends. Ms. Toad Apr 2013 #229

Correction: Amina doesn't fit into YOUR definition of "Muslim". You will need to ask HER how she idwiyo Apr 2013 #168

You are absolutely correct. We cannot know for sure until she answers that question. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #169

Didn't stop you from making statements that she is NOT Muslim. Care to retract them or at least idwiyo Apr 2013 #171

I will make the correction that there is no evidence that she is Muslim. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #174

There is no evidence she isn't. She doesn't fit into your definition of who is and isn't Muslim. idwiyo Apr 2013 #177

The irony here is of course that you and others assume she is Muslim because of where she lives. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #178

Mine actually. I am not even sure what your assumptions are based on. idwiyo Apr 2013 #182

To add to your list, Opus Dei vs. very liberal Catholics stevenleser Apr 2013 #189

My point exactly. Never mind that at least some Muslim Scholars will insist that she is a Muslim idwiyo Apr 2013 #190

What about the Muslim women supporting the groups actions? etherealtruth Apr 2013 #74

And of course your response got... stevenleser Apr 2013 #191

You see the response you got, an immediate moving of the goalposts and shifting of the argument. stevenleser Apr 2013 #27

Some would say it's FEMEN, because boobs R B Garr Apr 2013 #193

She didn't ask because nobody in FEMEN had talked to her... Luminous Animal Apr 2013 #48

1) IIRC she posted the original photos on the advice of FEMEN LadyHawkAZ Apr 2013 #56

Not only that, Amina created Femen Tunisia. It's her organization. nt stevenleser Apr 2013 #63

Yeah, but... zappaman Apr 2013 #68

Exactly. We have two folks posting under this OP who are impossibly biased because of boobs. nt stevenleser Apr 2013 #70

OP had a whole subthread full of boob/sexuality woo LadyHawkAZ Apr 2013 #80

SSDD, indeed. zappaman Apr 2013 #98

Just try finding a post of mine that said she is in no danger. Luminous Animal Apr 2013 #75

Your support is somewhat qualified LadyHawkAZ Apr 2013 #85

I have also never railed against her methods. Luminous Animal Apr 2013 #95

Mmm-hmm LadyHawkAZ Apr 2013 #107

Definition of rail: To express objections or criticisms in bitter, harsh, or abusive language Luminous Animal Apr 2013 #148

And you got a game-playing response. nt stevenleser Apr 2013 #180

*shrug* LadyHawkAZ Apr 2013 #185

Nobody asked Abolitionsists to speak for slaves in the Americas either. Zorra Apr 2013 #29

Exactly. The argument is an unconscionable one. You cannot protest wrongdoing elsewhere or else be stevenleser Apr 2013 #30

You just completely disassociated Muslim women from their agency. Congrats. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #32

The Handmaid's Tale ~ Zorra Apr 2013 #49

Atwood's novel is a reductio ad absurdum to prove a point. It is not an instructional piece. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #53

Are you Muslim? nt Zorra Apr 2013 #115

No, I'm a Pantheist. Why? Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #116

Because you seem so adamantly opposed to non-Islamic organizations in other countries Zorra Apr 2013 #121

Islamic state ≠ Islam. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #122

So weird. So an anti-apartheid group in the US was a problem protesting for South Africans? riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #128

Yep, that person advocates ethical segregation. It's a screwed up belief system. stevenleser Apr 2013 #181

You are yet to prove that they are in fact speaking FOR Muslim women. idwiyo Apr 2013 #197

Are you opposed to non-Islamic governments and the UN pressuring Islamist Zorra Apr 2013 #117

Your subject line is oxymoronical. "To prove a point" makes it instructional. Zorra Apr 2013 #209

No you have. Muslim FEMEN protesters ring a bell? Amina? Aliaa? You saying they're doing it "wrong"? riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #67

Their own protests are not wrong. FEMEN exploitation is wrong. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #77

From your own OP, they were protesting in solidarity which you say is okay! riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #82

Why the hell were they protesting outside of Mosques? Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #84

Now you're putting parameters on WHERE women can protest??!! Really?! riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #91

I'm not telling them where they can or cannot protest. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #92

So patriarchal Islamic oppression of women isn't what Amina was protesting, and FEMEN in solidarity? riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #99

So you're argument is that all Mosques, Imams and followers are responsible for the oppression. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #103

No! Its about going to a place that will generate maximum exposure for ANY protest riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #110

So in your mind, nobody is allowed to protest anything unless they belong to the aggrieved group? riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #78

At the very least, pro-Palestine protests argue for Palestinian agency. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #81

Nice. Picking and choosing WHICH demonstrations are okay for me to protest at. Palestinian okay! riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #88

Nope, you completely misunderstood my point. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #89

Some Muslim women certainly are suffering. polly7 Apr 2013 #101

Reread what I wrote. I'm talking about the outside chapters of FEMEN. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #104

Ack ... you're right, I read that too fast, sorry. polly7 Apr 2013 #106

FEMEN is anti-religion. How could they speak for Muslim women? Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #109

They're speaking for 'women', who are oppressed because of religion. polly7 Apr 2013 #111

Their stated objective is to help "liberate" women from Islam... Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #112

I believe a lot of Americans need to be liberated from the Southern Baptist Church riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #114

Gotcha. So Gravitycollapse's Guide to Proper Ladylike Protests means riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #105

It really is an incredibly sinister, patronizing, flirting-with-racist argument, isn't it? DirkGently Apr 2013 #127

Yup, it really is. Disgusting actually. I note Gravitycollapse evades coming back riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #145

lol. morningfog Apr 2013 #154

Snap! Apophis Apr 2013 #54

What a joke RainDog Apr 2013 #33

I'm not prepared to take someone seriously who uses terms like "homo guys" or "homo females." Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #34

I was using corresponding adj. het/homo RainDog Apr 2013 #35

Your rhetoric is telling. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #38

LOL RainDog Apr 2013 #42

Yawn. Speaking up against oppression will always piss a few people off. polly7 Apr 2013 #64

Your protest of the protests has succeeded in uniting many DUers who often... randome Apr 2013 #96

So what. No one ever asks me anything either. Prism Apr 2013 #102

This thread is ridiculous. MadrasT Apr 2013 #113

+10000 trumad Apr 2013 #119

Another article written by another "naked titties and public nudity is BAD and oppressive" person. idwiyo Apr 2013 #120

Vladmir agrees with you. kwassa Apr 2013 #138

Not sure what it is you are trying to say. Do tell. idwiyo Apr 2013 #162

Vladimir Putin enjoys Femen protest against him. kwassa Apr 2013 #186

And then promptly had his government request the harshest punishments for them. stevenleser Apr 2013 #195

And where is your evidence that ..... kwassa Apr 2013 #206

Tons of news reports. Google is your friend stevenleser Apr 2013 #207

Tons? Oh my! kwassa Apr 2013 #208

Your link has nothing to do with my contention or the point which is that Putin/Russia wanted stevenleser Apr 2013 #210

So what? They get a minor fine. Big deal. Putin has no say. kwassa Apr 2013 #211

And now you are once again all over the place with no point. nt stevenleser Apr 2013 #214

Kind of difficult for him to see her back when she is facing him, no? How do you know what he thinks idwiyo Apr 2013 #196

Her protest has no usefulness. If Putin can ignore it either way, it has no point. kwassa Apr 2013 #212

You are entitled to your oppinion. I beleive FEMEN accomplished exactly what they planned to do. idwiyo Apr 2013 #213

If you really want a laugh, take a look at the back and forth just upthread. She not only moved the stevenleser Apr 2013 #215

Thanks, almost missed that part. That's hilarious! idwiyo Apr 2013 #216

When I want a laugh, I read your notes. kwassa Apr 2013 #218

LOL! Back from throwing those goalposts away? nt stevenleser Apr 2013 #220

Perfect. No wonder. cali Apr 2013 #232

Femen planned to look silly? They did accompliish that. kwassa Apr 2013 #217

They looked silly? You just cant help yourself but try to put those women down. In any way possible. idwiyo Apr 2013 #219

I am only saying what many are saying on DU. Many you argue with. kwassa Apr 2013 #221

OK, if you are not motivated by "anti-nude sentiments" than what is your beef with FEMEN? idwiyo Apr 2013 #222

Their form of protest is regressive, in my opinion. kwassa Apr 2013 #223

Obviously we disagree. I don't like sweeping statements like "their method does damage to women's idwiyo Apr 2013 #227

I think it does apply to you, and this is where we disagree. kwassa Apr 2013 #231

Sooo ... "They're right, but they should shut up because something something neocolonial?" DirkGently Apr 2013 #125

That's not a tortured argument. The history of white people appointing themselves moral authority Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #126

How are you wriggling around the fact that Amina Tyler is Tunisian, again? DirkGently Apr 2013 #129

I'm not protesting against Amina. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #130

Are you protesting boobs? Quantess Apr 2013 #131

What? What part of my argument in this thread revolves around breasts? Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #133

Come on, just admit it. Quantess Apr 2013 #134

Admit what? Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #137

Admitting that you are trolling might be a good start. Quantess Apr 2013 #172

But you are, and the rest of the Muslim FEMEN members riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #132

Are there Muslim FEMEN members? Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #136

Yes. Amina and Aliaa that we know of. Who else is on the rolls I don't know riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #142

Aliaa is not Muslim. She is a secularist. There is no evidence that Amina is Muslim. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #144

Uhm, an Islamic cleric has put out a fatwa against Amina so clearly they believe riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #149

I don't think you know what a fatwa is. Regardless, neither of those women are Muslim. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #151

Prove it. Please provide proof for Amina (for example). riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #156

It's difficult to prove a negative. There is no evidence that Amina is Muslim. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #158

Okay so you are just making shit up. Good night. nt riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #161

Do you believe non-christian women should be allowed to protest octothorpe Apr 2013 #163

Of course NOT! They will be oppressing Christian women who can speak for themselves! idwiyo Apr 2013 #199

Why is this such a big deal? Deep13 Apr 2013 #135

This FEMEN protest and systemic oppression are the same thing. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #139

That is a ludicrous statement. Who are protesters "oppressing?" DirkGently Apr 2013 #140

The very women they claim to be speaking for. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #141

Thats so crazy its insane! Some of the protesters are Muslim! riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #143

Which FEMEN members are Muslim? I know of none. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #146

Answered in 149 and we don't know whose exactly on FEMEN's rolls riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #153

Aliaa is not Muslim. She is a secularist. There is no evidence that Amina is Muslim. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #155

That's a bullshit statement and not supported by any FACTS whatsoever. riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #166

FEMEN is an expressly anti-religious organization. So it's fair game... Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #173

Why would that matter either way? octothorpe Apr 2013 #167

Nice of you to impose your male western-oriented patriarchal definition of who is and isn't idwiyo Apr 2013 #157

You cannot "oppress" someone by speaking out. DirkGently Apr 2013 #147

You don't think language has an oppressive capacity? Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #150

There's that tortured logic again. DirkGently Apr 2013 #165

Exactly. Tortured logic is a good phrase for it. stevenleser Apr 2013 #179

There is a vibrant feminist movement in Tunisia, of which some members have been threatened with Luminous Animal Apr 2013 #183

FEMEN is actually anti-porn and anti-prostitution industry. idwiyo Apr 2013 #198

No, you are misreading it. Deep13 Apr 2013 #184

Yes. nt Zorra Apr 2013 #200

ROFLMAO Coyotl Apr 2013 #188

Go FEMEN! They speak for themselves. morningfog Apr 2013 #152

Post removed Post removed Apr 2013 #224

They volunteered. Deep13 Apr 2013 #226

Islam's own Phyllis Schlaflys. backscatter712 Apr 2013 #230