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JackRiddler

(24,979 posts)
47. Your premise about the WMDs is entirely mistaken.
Fri Feb 10, 2012, 09:42 PM
Feb 2012

They didn't need to plant them because the criminals got what they wanted just by lying about WMD. They knew well from experience that afterward they could just make up new lies that the American people would also swallow or tolerate. They knew that 10 years later, even after the lies were exposed, none of them would get the noose, all of them would live comfortably in prosperity.

Finally, they knew that while Americans would believe it all, if they planted WMDs they would be exposed for it to the rest of the world.

The simple and short answer is, it was impossible.

No less an authority than Scott Ritter explained to me why that was in early 2003, before the US invasion.

Under the UN disarmament program, of which he was the field commander until 1998, likely all Iraqi WMDs and at least 95% of the capacity for manufacturing them were destroyed, confirmably, by 1998.

Ritter's team had documented how Iraq acquired or manufactured the weapons and how they were disposed. Since the stockpiles had been substantial and the program complex and secret, some munitions or chemicals might have slipped through their net more or less by chance, but it was questionable whether even the Iraqi military could still find these minor stores.

The story is told at length in Ritter's 2003 film, "In Shifting Sands."

The major powers and the UN all knew that Iraq had no WMDs -- more importantly, they knew that Iraq's capacity to make WMDs had been eliminated. They knew that any stores that might have been missed were no threat.

But acknowledging this meant the end of the UN sanctions program. In Aug. 1998, Ritter's boss Butler called upon him instead to back a Clinton plan to claim Iraq was still in violation. Butler told him the Americans wanted to issue an ultimatum and commence bombing.

Ritter resigned, a few weeks before the "Desert Fox" bombings of Dec. 1998.

Unlike with the domestic sites of 9/11, even after an invasion the US could not control the Iraqi crime scene.

The US could never invade Iraq against widespread opposition among the major powers and then credibly claim to have found WMDs, unless these were presented to UN and international inspection. At that point, fakery would be impossible.

As Ritter explained, starting from scratch in 2003, you cannot plant Iraqi-made poison gas of the 1994 vintage and credibly age it nine years in a fashion that will fool the UN chemists.

Ritter was prophetic. He had contacted every office in Congress with an ironclad case that no WMDs existed and that the invasion propaganda was demonstrably false, but unfortunately he was unable to sway the Iraq war vote in any way (and he also went completely unacknowledged after the invasion, when he was proven right on every point).

To our group in 2003, Ritter predicted that after the invasion, we would hear repeated announcements that WMD were in fact found, until most people would come to believe it even after each and every discovery was refuted and retracted.

This is what happened.

The even shorter answer is itself question: Was discovering WMD a necessity for invading Iraq?

No.

Could you have predicted beforehand that it wouldn't have been, that the flow of events after an invasion would cause the question to recede and give rise to other justifications for the invasion? Yes.

"Well we're in there now, we have to stay in!"

And so it went.

So your initial premise is flawed, and cannot support any of what follows. Sorry.

.

They are only toothless when it comes to prosecuting rich people with lobbyists. Lint Head Feb 2012 #1
No, there are many cabals, many conspiracies, and many shadowy board rooms starroute Feb 2012 #2
Exactly. Some succeed, some don't. nt CJCRANE Feb 2012 #3
I guess I don't consider those conspiracies Taverner Feb 2012 #6
+1 awesome post. Nt napoleon_in_rags Feb 2012 #12
You nailed it, starroute. nt hifiguy Feb 2012 #34
Kind of wish I could agree FiveGoodMen Feb 2012 #4
That's the TRULY scary thing. napoleon_in_rags Feb 2012 #26
Good Point Ron Obvious Feb 2012 #5
Denial---it ain't just a river in Egypt. nt raccoon Feb 2012 #29
If anything, the collapse of 2008 proved that Bok_Tukalo Feb 2012 #7
It would have been difficult to plant WMD evidence that would stand up to rigorous investigation.. Fumesucker Feb 2012 #8
That depends on who is doing the investigation.... Taverner Feb 2012 #10
Easier to just brazen it out... Fumesucker Feb 2012 #16
That would have been a conspiracy, Kaleko Feb 2012 #25
Here's a thread by kpete from aug 08 Hatchling Feb 2012 #48
I agree and disagree. white_wolf Feb 2012 #9
Hell, EVERY person within the capitalist institutions is working to rig the market in their favor Taverner Feb 2012 #11
You have no idea what the intelligence community DevonRex Feb 2012 #13
Why would they plant WMD? They didn't need to. Rex Feb 2012 #14
Well, there's Wall Street and the MIC. Nearly everything that happens in this country sabrina 1 Feb 2012 #15
They run the country. Rex Feb 2012 #17
Wall Street and the MIC and the Global Oil Corps, bvar22 Feb 2012 #39
I agree. Look what they have done to Europe, eg. Turned formerly first countries sabrina 1 Feb 2012 #40
I'd add in the attendees at Davos and Opec meetings, along with the G8 and IMF clubs riderinthestorm Feb 2012 #44
TOTALLY agree, they have all the power Raine Feb 2012 #43
I think that's relatively right now, but that the R party and it's allies in the courts, anAustralianobserver Feb 2012 #18
You're quite possibly right and if you are... spin Feb 2012 #19
The future blossoms from the present and the present blossoms from the future. napoleon_in_rags Feb 2012 #28
Very interesting post. You make a lot of good points. spin Feb 2012 #35
thx! I believe we will eventually reach a point of peace. napoleon_in_rags Feb 2012 #37
This is my hope too... spin Feb 2012 #41
+1. Well said.nt napoleon_in_rags Feb 2012 #42
Thanks for your support. (n/t) spin Feb 2012 #52
What allows it to continue even on this level is there is people who madokie Feb 2012 #20
+1 napoleon_in_rags Feb 2012 #27
Hmmmmm libodem Feb 2012 #21
I think they TRIED to plant wmds (or something they could claim were wmds..) annabanana Feb 2012 #22
K&R guardian Feb 2012 #23
Corporate anarchy Tsiyu Feb 2012 #24
exactly. well said. bbgrunt Feb 2012 #30
Reason Bush couldn't have WMD's planted was Russia and China had spy satellites parked over Iraq NNN0LHI Feb 2012 #31
They could have easily salted the scene without being caught Taverner Feb 2012 #32
I think it was another example of Group Think. aikoaiko Feb 2012 #33
Incompetence is not the same things as having good intentions or working for the good of us all. nt bemildred Feb 2012 #36
i agree with a lot of what you said. people like to say there's a smokey room where PTB hatch plots dionysus Feb 2012 #38
I do think there are global players. Members of the Carlyle group transcend national boundaries riderinthestorm Feb 2012 #45
As Don Draper would say.... sufrommich Feb 2012 #46
Yup! Taverner Feb 2012 #53
Your premise about the WMDs is entirely mistaken. JackRiddler Feb 2012 #47
BINGO, you get a cookie! Odin2005 Feb 2012 #49
Yes - didn't Marx call this one? Taverner Feb 2012 #50
Yup. Odin2005 Feb 2012 #51
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