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In reply to the discussion: If tomorrow Obama changed his mind and decided the surveillance program was all wrong [View all]Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)37. Who decides it's a vioaltion?
He has lawyers who can write justifications for everything. The FISC court appears to have signed off on everything, which makes it seem that the law was followed. If the law was followed, it wasn't UNCONSTITUTIONAL, was it?
the problem is that we don't know if he did anything UNCONSTITUTIONAL. Short of SCOTUS ruling on the constitutionality of the program we won't know. But the appearances' are there, and saying that he no longer agrees with the program means nothing.
The text of the 4th amendment says:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Without bringing everything out in the open we don't know whether anything UNCONSTITUTIONAL occurred. We don't know if they were unreasonable. It looks very bad.
At no time did I say that the Patriot act compelled him to violate the 4th Amendment. I will go on record as saying that whether he did or not is opinion only until SCOTUS decides.
It's my opinion that the spirit and the letter of the Constitution was violated, but it's only my opinion. I think strong actions need to be taken to show why this was not a violation of the Constitutional Rights of Americans.
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If tomorrow Obama changed his mind and decided the surveillance program was all wrong [View all]
Fumesucker
Jun 2013
OP
...and I'll STILL make the point that Obama broke no law and was the best happy medium of a bad ....
uponit7771
Jun 2013
#3
You will continue to argue for universal surveillance if Obama decides it's not wise? n/t
Fumesucker
Jun 2013
#6
I don't argue for "universal" (good try) surveillance NOW! I argue what Obama is doing is NOT what..
uponit7771
Jun 2013
#9
Surveilling everyone certainly could be argued as being universal surveillance
Fumesucker
Jun 2013
#13
I wih people would ask Congressmen what they thought of the laws that they passed
Rosa Luxemburg
Jun 2013
#4
you know they would and they would act like they were against it the whole time! nt
boilerbabe
Jun 2013
#8
These programs are funded by congress and under congressional oversight.
Agnosticsherbet
Jun 2013
#16
You said the Congress mandated these programs and the President had no option.
BlueStreak
Jun 2013
#33
My question was about those of us down here in the cheap seats, what our reaction would be
Fumesucker
Jun 2013
#25
You would consider Obama as being ill advised if he were to discontinue the surveillance?
Fumesucker
Jun 2013
#29
Of course. The propeller stops spinning for an afternoon and cranks up in the other direction...
Poll_Blind
Jun 2013
#21
Would you continue to argue for the surveillance programs in question if Obama disowned them?
Fumesucker
Jun 2013
#28
If the USSC were to rule that these dragnet warrants are constitutional...
OilemFirchen
Jun 2013
#34