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MineralMan

(146,288 posts)
Mon Jun 10, 2013, 10:04 AM Jun 2013

I'm waiting a bit before forming a solid opinion on this NSA mess. [View all]

Right now, there are a number of very strong opinions being expressed, but prematurely, I think. This is a complicated, and somewhat confusing situation, and there's not enough information yet to form reasoned judgments, in my opinion. As someone who actually worked inside the NSA building over 40 years ago, and who has been following the intelligence community ever since, I've been aware for years of the programs that are now being more widely exposed.

Those programs have been known about by many for a long time, and some of them began even while I was involved with one of the agencies in the late 1960s. They've been discussed in a number of books, over time, and programs like the defunct TIA and the operating ECHELON and several others have received press coverage, along with a wealth of information available on the Internet for those who are interested in such things.

Like all US intelligence efforts, there's always a combination of publicly exposed information and stuff that isn't disclosed. The recent disclosures by people like Edward Snowden, through Glenn Greenwald and the Guardian, don't come as any sort of surprise. Most of what has been disclosed has long been understood to be happening, and some of it has been in the news over the past decade or so. The disclosures don't actually disclose much that isn't already known and covered on the Internet. All a person had to do was poke around to find plenty of information. Even Wikipedia offers a lot of articles on the programs that have been "leaked." The supposed leaks only inform people who have not been following this stuff.

Although these disclosures may come as a surprise to many, they're not that surprising, new, or revealing. The timing is interesting, of course, and the reactions are unsurprising, as well. Most of the documents so far disclosed by Greenwald and the Guardian are just briefing documents, of the kind used to tell Congress and other groups what is currently going on, or at least what they want to reveal about what is going on. Some have had Top Secret classifications, but that classification is widely used for documents that aren't all that sensitive.

For people who do not follow intelligence operations, some of it may seem shocking and worrisome. And, indeed, government intelligence used to capture data about us, as civilians, should be worrisome. We are rightfully concerned about it, and knowledge that it is happening is a good thing. However, despite these revelations, we still don't understand it very well, and don't know how and to what extent this data is used. I certainly don't, since it has been so long since I was involved in intelligence work. We don't know, and we're not going to know, really, through these disclosures.

However, in the upcoming weeks, we're going to find out more. What has been discussed only by a limited number of people who are interested in intelligence operations will be discussed by others, and a lot of misconceptions and misinformation is going to appear across the board. In the media, on forums like this one, and on blogs and other speculative outlets, there are going to be millions of words written. Much of what will be written will be incorrect, based on limited information, or slanted in some way for political reasons.

So, I'm waiting before forming any judgments. Before long, the bullshit will be separated from the factual information. Uninformed opinion will give way to thoughtful analysis, and outrage will yield to informed opinion. We'll learn more about Edward Snowden, the origin of these programs, and much more. It will be interesting to follow, but there will also be a lot of misinformation being bandied about. Waiting will produce a clearer picture.

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Same here, thanks for articulating this so well. emulatorloo Jun 2013 #1
I guess I'm too old to believe that instant judgments make sense. MineralMan Jun 2013 #2
"I can't do anything about it, anyhow" kentauros Jun 2013 #6
Well, that's always a consideration. All of these programs MineralMan Jun 2013 #9
Yes, we should still express our opinions to them. kentauros Jun 2013 #12
Absolutely. We should express informed opinions, MineralMan Jun 2013 #15
I agree with the waiting part. kentauros Jun 2013 #17
Whatever Cruz says will be listing heavily to starboard. MineralMan Jun 2013 #20
I'd say for him the boat's been capsized to starboard! kentauros Jun 2013 #23
Certainly I would not expect any positive change from ... ananda Jun 2013 #39
Well, that makes sense. MineralMan Jun 2013 #40
We've been burned too many times by speculative "Instant Analysis" in the media emulatorloo Jun 2013 #7
It's not just DU, of course. It's the Internet. MineralMan Jun 2013 #10
Agreed. But of course the factual info won't get media airtime, only the bullshit speculations. JaneyVee Jun 2013 #3
True. Factual information, however, can be weeded MineralMan Jun 2013 #4
Always wise liberal N proud Jun 2013 #5
It's always tempting to jump into such things with MineralMan Jun 2013 #8
I agree whole heartedly. janlyn Jun 2013 #11
I doubt we'll ever know what's really going on. The Velveteen Ocelot Jun 2013 #13
That is most certainly true. No matter how much MineralMan Jun 2013 #16
It could be a carefully controlled plan at this time and it is quite possible that the NSA doesn't.. spin Jun 2013 #14
Actually, Nixon did exactly that, given the technology MineralMan Jun 2013 #18
I'm with you. Better to wait and allow this to unfold before jumping on either bandwagon. n/t Avalux Jun 2013 #19
agreed RainDog Jun 2013 #21
Yup. Everyone should stop and consider before posting. MineralMan Jun 2013 #22
But what fun is that? nt geek tragedy Jun 2013 #24
I'm waiting until 2016 Autumn Jun 2013 #25
hear hear creon Jun 2013 #26
Meanwhile Greenwald can take this to the bank flamingdem Jun 2013 #27
The 24/7 news cycle... TommyCelt Jun 2013 #28
I have concerns mick063 Jun 2013 #29
Another Classic Example... KharmaTrain Jun 2013 #30
There are also thoughtful threads on DU, not just emotional ones. MineralMan Jun 2013 #32
A very measured OP. I think before the end of the week we will have a much msanthrope Jun 2013 #31
Good points! I agree! DrewFlorida Jun 2013 #33
Oh, you and your whole "not jumping to conclusions" thingy... Jeff In Milwaukee Jun 2013 #34
I know. I should be waving my arms around. MineralMan Jun 2013 #35
One of my favorite lines from M*A*S*H Jeff In Milwaukee Jun 2013 #36
This bit of doggerel comes to mind: MineralMan Jun 2013 #37
Exactly what I've been thinking. Thank you for Raven Jun 2013 #38
Me too. moondust Jun 2013 #41
You seem a good person to ask... DURHAM D Jun 2013 #42
Terminology nitpick jeff47 Jun 2013 #44
So the Director of National Intelligence is likely DURHAM D Jun 2013 #47
See my explanation below, as a reply to your original question. MineralMan Jun 2013 #48
Not directly, but he set up the system under which such people can receive clearances. (nt) jeff47 Jun 2013 #49
Typically, the organization in question makes the final decision. MineralMan Jun 2013 #45
Do you think the FBI is actually involved in granting clearance DURHAM D Jun 2013 #50
The FBI recommends for or against the clearance. MineralMan Jun 2013 #51
Well said; nicely played. longship Jun 2013 #43
The only thing new is this guy was able to find an interesting PowerPoint presention. DCBob Jun 2013 #46
I hope you will consider my piece in developing a clearer picture. It takes into account facts... stevenleser Jun 2013 #52
Thanks. I'll have a look at it. MineralMan Jun 2013 #53
Me, too. I have to admit I haven't really kept up on this newest "scandal". kestrel91316 Jun 2013 #54
Well, so far there hasn't been that much to keep track of. MineralMan Jun 2013 #55
Same here. His interview was weird, but also compelling so I too will apples and oranges Jun 2013 #56
So far, I don't think they reveal anything that violates MineralMan Jun 2013 #57
Thanks for this post Mineral Man. Everyone NEEDS to read this post and do a lot of thinking. Auntie Bush Jun 2013 #58
This is not one of the things that I tend to get instantly outraged over Proud Liberal Dem Jun 2013 #59
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