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In reply to the discussion: Do you consider yourself a Democrat first or an American first? [View all]premium
(3,731 posts)96. Would you accept it from her own book.
I'll post the what she said and why she said it.
http://janefonda.com/the-truth-about-my-trip-to-hanoi/
In my anger at the torture story that was being allowed to spread, at how the entire situation was being manipulated, I made a mistake I deeply regret. I said that the POWs claiming torture were liars, hypocrites, and pawns.
I said, Im quite sure that there were incidents of torture but the pilots who are saying it was the policy of the Vietnamese and that it was systematic, I believe thats a lie.[8]
What I didnt know at the time was that although there had been no torture after 1969, before then there had been systematic torture of some POWS. One of the more hawkish of them, James Stockdale, wrote in his book, In Love and War, that no more than ten percent of the pilots received at least ninety percent of the punishment.[9] John Hubbell, in P.O.W.: A Definitive History of the American Prisoner-of-War Experience in Vietnam, agreed, and affirmed the fact that torture stopped in 1969.[10]
When the POWs came home, some who had been there longest told the press how they clogged up prison toilets and sewers, refused to come when ordered, or follow prison rules. One of the most famous, Jeremiah Denton, said, We forced them [the guards] to be brutal to us.[11] I relay this not to minimize the hardships that the POWs endured, nor to excuse it but to attempt belatedly to restore a greater depth of insight into the entire POW experience with their captors.
I said, Im quite sure that there were incidents of torture but the pilots who are saying it was the policy of the Vietnamese and that it was systematic, I believe thats a lie.[8]
What I didnt know at the time was that although there had been no torture after 1969, before then there had been systematic torture of some POWS. One of the more hawkish of them, James Stockdale, wrote in his book, In Love and War, that no more than ten percent of the pilots received at least ninety percent of the punishment.[9] John Hubbell, in P.O.W.: A Definitive History of the American Prisoner-of-War Experience in Vietnam, agreed, and affirmed the fact that torture stopped in 1969.[10]
When the POWs came home, some who had been there longest told the press how they clogged up prison toilets and sewers, refused to come when ordered, or follow prison rules. One of the most famous, Jeremiah Denton, said, We forced them [the guards] to be brutal to us.[11] I relay this not to minimize the hardships that the POWs endured, nor to excuse it but to attempt belatedly to restore a greater depth of insight into the entire POW experience with their captors.
Despite the context it was said in, she did say it, so wiki did get it right.
On the other quote, I can't find any reputable source, so until one emerges, I'll concede that it may just be a piece of propaganda put out by the RW. I believed it because of my intense hatred of her at the time.
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False choice, Kentuck. People that are democrats accept that they are americans at
bluestate10
Jun 2013
#3
I consider myself a human being with principles...those principles are best met by various
NRaleighLiberal
Jun 2013
#8
I'm a human being, a conscious entity and a child of nature, first and foremost.
Gravitycollapse
Jun 2013
#10
My country is the world, and my religion is to do good. - Thomas Paine
Tierra_y_Libertad
Jun 2013
#19
Members of the Democratic Party ARE Americans. So what exactly is your point.
madinmaryland
Jun 2013
#20
Hmm. Obama's been saying we're all Americans. He's everybody's president, etc,
DevonRex
Jun 2013
#22
Nice framing. Do you also remember "You are either with us or you are with the terrorists"?
Fire Walk With Me
Jun 2013
#26
I agree with George Berkeley. I am me. You are all figments of my fertile imagination.
aristocles
Jun 2013
#31
being a democrat isnt a significant part of my identity. being a liberal/progressive is
La Lioness Priyanka
Jun 2013
#43
Wiki... well would you like me to edit it so your quote appears there n/t
4bucksagallon
Jun 2013
#94
as a matter of principle I don't like the idea of nationlist identity - but it is nonetheless the
Douglas Carpenter
Jun 2013
#68
REMEMBER Jane Fonda? Hey, she's still around! She's an icon and a role model.
Honeycombe8
Jun 2013
#75
I am sentient being. No more, no less. World citizen, Democrat, American, just creates
DJWBlue
Jun 2013
#86
Resident of planet Earth, then a woman, then a liberal. "American" is way far down on the list.
Arugula Latte
Jun 2013
#97
Put nationality or ideology ahead of humanity and all 3 become valueless. /nt
TheMadMonk
Jun 2013
#104