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In reply to the discussion: What the hell, DU? [View all]pacalo
(24,721 posts)187. Just wanted to point out that Glenn Greenwald is *NOT* a libertarian...
He has a strong sense of right/wrong & is simply interested in advocating the truth of what our government does in our name. He wrote about the lies being told about him & this excerpt is in regard to the libertarian label being stamped on his reputation:
These labels are hard to refute primarily because they've become impoverished of any meaning. They're just mindless slurs used to try to discredit one's political adversaries. Most of the people who hurl the "libertarian" label at me have no idea what the term even means. Ask anyone who makes this claim to identify the views I've expressed - with links and quotes - that constitute libertarianism.
I don't really care what labels get applied to me. But - beyond the anti-war and pro-civil-liberties writing I do on a daily basis - here are views I've publicly advocated. Decide for yourself if the "libertarian" label applies:
* opposing all cuts to Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid (here and here);
* repeatedly calling for the prosecution of Wall Street (here, here and here);
* advocating for robust public financing to eliminate the domination by the rich in political campaigns, writing: "corporate influence over our political process is easily one of the top sicknesses afflicting our political culture" (here and here);
* condemning income and wealth inequality as the by-product of corruption (here and here);
* attacking oligarchs - led by the Koch Brothers - for self-pitying complaints about the government and criticizing policies that favor the rich at the expense of ordinary Americans (here);
* arguing in favor of a public option for health care reform (repeatedly);
* criticizing the appointment of too many Goldman Sachs and other Wall Street officials to positions of power (here, here and here);
* repeatedly condemning the influence of corporate factions in public policy making (here and here);
* praising and defending the Occupy Wall Street movement as early and vocally as anyone (here, here and here)
* using my blog to raise substantial money for the campaigns of Russ Feingold and left-wing/anti-war Democrats Normon Solomon, Franke Wilmer and Cecil Bothwell, and defending Dennis Kucinich from Democratic Party attacks;
* co-founding a new group along with Daniel Ellsberg, Laura Poitras, John Cusack, Xeni Jardin, JP Barlow and others to protect press freedom and independent journalism (see the New York Times report on this here);
* co-founding and working extensively on a PAC to work with labor unions and liberal advocacy groups to recruit progressive primary challengers to conservative Democratic incumbents (see the New York Times report on this here);
To apply a "right-wing libertarian" label to someone with those views and that activism is patently idiotic. Just ask any actual libertarian whether those views are compatible with being a libertarian. Or just read this October, 2012 post - written on Volokh, a libertarian blog - entitled "Glenn Greenwald, Man of the Left", which claims I harbor "left-wing views on economic policy" and am "a run-of-the-mill left-winger of the sort who can be heard 24/7 on the likes of Pacifica radio" because of my opposition to cuts in Social Security and Medicare.
There is no doubt that I share many views with actual libertarians, including: opposition to a massive surveillance state, support for marriage equality for LGBT citizens, restraints on government power to imprison or kill people without due process, opposition to the death penalty and the generally oppressive US penal state, contempt for the sadistic and racist drug war, disgust toward corporatism and crony capitalism, and opposition to aggressive wars and the ability of presidents to wage them without Congressional authority. It's also true that I supported the Citizens United decision on free speech grounds: along with people like the ACLU and Eliot Spitzer (the only politician to put real fear in the heart of Wall Street executives in the last decade and probably the politician most hated by actual libertarians).
Liberals and libertarians share the same views on many issues, particularly involving war, civil liberties, penal policies, and government abuse of power. That is why people like Alan Grayson and Dennis Kucinich worked so closely with Ron Paul to Audit the Fed and restore civil liberties.
http://ggsidedocs.blogspot.com.br/2013/01/frequently-told-lies-ftls.html
I don't really care what labels get applied to me. But - beyond the anti-war and pro-civil-liberties writing I do on a daily basis - here are views I've publicly advocated. Decide for yourself if the "libertarian" label applies:
* opposing all cuts to Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid (here and here);
* repeatedly calling for the prosecution of Wall Street (here, here and here);
* advocating for robust public financing to eliminate the domination by the rich in political campaigns, writing: "corporate influence over our political process is easily one of the top sicknesses afflicting our political culture" (here and here);
* condemning income and wealth inequality as the by-product of corruption (here and here);
* attacking oligarchs - led by the Koch Brothers - for self-pitying complaints about the government and criticizing policies that favor the rich at the expense of ordinary Americans (here);
* arguing in favor of a public option for health care reform (repeatedly);
* criticizing the appointment of too many Goldman Sachs and other Wall Street officials to positions of power (here, here and here);
* repeatedly condemning the influence of corporate factions in public policy making (here and here);
* praising and defending the Occupy Wall Street movement as early and vocally as anyone (here, here and here)
* using my blog to raise substantial money for the campaigns of Russ Feingold and left-wing/anti-war Democrats Normon Solomon, Franke Wilmer and Cecil Bothwell, and defending Dennis Kucinich from Democratic Party attacks;
* co-founding a new group along with Daniel Ellsberg, Laura Poitras, John Cusack, Xeni Jardin, JP Barlow and others to protect press freedom and independent journalism (see the New York Times report on this here);
* co-founding and working extensively on a PAC to work with labor unions and liberal advocacy groups to recruit progressive primary challengers to conservative Democratic incumbents (see the New York Times report on this here);
To apply a "right-wing libertarian" label to someone with those views and that activism is patently idiotic. Just ask any actual libertarian whether those views are compatible with being a libertarian. Or just read this October, 2012 post - written on Volokh, a libertarian blog - entitled "Glenn Greenwald, Man of the Left", which claims I harbor "left-wing views on economic policy" and am "a run-of-the-mill left-winger of the sort who can be heard 24/7 on the likes of Pacifica radio" because of my opposition to cuts in Social Security and Medicare.
There is no doubt that I share many views with actual libertarians, including: opposition to a massive surveillance state, support for marriage equality for LGBT citizens, restraints on government power to imprison or kill people without due process, opposition to the death penalty and the generally oppressive US penal state, contempt for the sadistic and racist drug war, disgust toward corporatism and crony capitalism, and opposition to aggressive wars and the ability of presidents to wage them without Congressional authority. It's also true that I supported the Citizens United decision on free speech grounds: along with people like the ACLU and Eliot Spitzer (the only politician to put real fear in the heart of Wall Street executives in the last decade and probably the politician most hated by actual libertarians).
Liberals and libertarians share the same views on many issues, particularly involving war, civil liberties, penal policies, and government abuse of power. That is why people like Alan Grayson and Dennis Kucinich worked so closely with Ron Paul to Audit the Fed and restore civil liberties.
http://ggsidedocs.blogspot.com.br/2013/01/frequently-told-lies-ftls.html
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Part of the problem is that the word "liberal" is often used interchangeably with
merrily
Jul 2013
#74
Yep: Some think it repression when 'the other' does it, 'defending freedom' when one does it.
panzerfaust
Jul 2013
#84
What hapened? Congnitive dissonance. Are we pro-Obama or Pro-Civil Liberties
BlueStreak
Jul 2013
#157
Where's the sarcasm tag. You just forced me to exercise idependant thought...
TheMadMonk
Jul 2013
#11
Neither are they saying it's more important than the issue of Mr. Snowden. :-/ n/t
DeSwiss
Jul 2013
#17
I agree. Sad that the OP comes out of "lurking" just to smear fellow DUers. nt
SunSeeker
Jul 2013
#58
So you claim that James Clapper changed the surveillance programs when Obama became president?
rhett o rick
Jul 2013
#169
There is no difference in wiretapping w/o a warrant and wiretapping with a FISA kangaroo warrant. nm
rhett o rick
Jul 2013
#167
You're changing the subject. I asked the poster for a link to back up his assertions.
SunSeeker
Jul 2013
#194
Right. Got "a link" to someone smearing Snowden AND acknowledging his point?
DirkGently
Jul 2013
#49
Not true. I asked for a link to back up the poster's assertion. Which no one has done.
SunSeeker
Jul 2013
#68
It is not an "answer." I asked for a link that says what you claim DUers are saying.
SunSeeker
Jul 2013
#239
It is PRECISELY that easy. As a Catholic and a Democrat, I support principles, not fallible men.
WinkyDink
Jul 2013
#37
My bet is that the 50-centers or trolls have dummy accounts set up just to do jury-duties.
backscatter712
Jul 2013
#98
Indeed. If 4 people just don't like you your post gets hidden. Doesn't matter if rules were broken.
L0oniX
Jul 2013
#179
In fairness to the admins, the paid shills are very good at not crossing the line.
Zorra
Jul 2013
#232
If you're a left-leaning, 4th Amendment loving, anti-corporate, anti-establishment libertarian
baldguy
Jul 2013
#39
Obama is the one calling for power to be scaled back. Vote a different Congress in 2014
JaneyVee
Jul 2013
#45
Then his rogue justice dept. needs to be leashed, they are going for a cover-up
Dragonfli
Jul 2013
#105
She has backed herself into a corner where she has to deny that any massive domestic surveillance
Warren Stupidity
Jul 2013
#127
So then you DISAGREE with the current surveillance of Americans? That's good to know
sabrina 1
Jul 2013
#241
Right!Despite"Years of challenges to NSA"it keeps growing like a malignant cancer
Divernan
Jul 2013
#141
Perfectly stated - thanks for putting down what I've been feeling for weeks. K and R.
NRaleighLiberal
Jul 2013
#94
She is a host of GD. What probably happened was that some hosts had voted to lock this,
scarletwoman
Jul 2013
#174
When the Snowden story broke, they came out with entire sock drawers! n/t
backscatter712
Jul 2013
#134
You might be on to something. Actually, you have hit the proverbial nail on the head.
indepat
Jul 2013
#156
He's not kidding, even though no one can back up his assertions about DUers with any links.
SunSeeker
Jul 2013
#253
If Snowden was an unabashed liberal -- and a Republican was in the White House - would you support
Douglas Carpenter
Jul 2013
#180
I think I would reserve judgment based on what this guy actually did bring to light.
airplaneman
Jul 2013
#214
Thanks Pacalo, Greenwald has always supported SS and other Liberal policies. For a
sabrina 1
Jul 2013
#216
I pointed that out because I've seen that labeling a number of times & it's factually wrong.
pacalo
Jul 2013
#218
Sorry a bit of common sense and pragmatism doesnt fit your version of a progressive/liberal.
DCBob
Jul 2013
#192
Well, there's no logic to defending Bush policies on a Democratic forum other
sabrina 1
Jul 2013
#236
same goal as Sen. Cranston had in '78 and the DLC had in '88: to move the party
MisterP
Jul 2013
#238
not really: it just needs organization and willingness to *fight* for goals and principles
MisterP
Jul 2013
#247
alas, this is all stuff I've learned over the decade--maybe I'll make a nice, magisterial OP 1 day
MisterP
Jul 2013
#264
341 recs. You are not alone. There are a lot of us who feel this way.
liberal_at_heart
Jul 2013
#257