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Agnosticsherbet

(11,619 posts)

52. Legal but rare means that education and contraceptives are easily avaiable to all women

Reply to el_bryanto (Original post)

Fri Nov 8, 2013, 09:57 AM

Nov 2013

so that unplanned pregnancies happen because of a failure of contraceptive, other rare accident, or brutal rape.

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Are people who believe Abortion should be legal but rare objectively anti-Choice? [View all] el_bryanto Nov 2013 OP

No more than people who think guns should be regulated pscot Nov 2013 #1

That Comparison doesn't work - because it is a rhetorical issue el_bryanto Nov 2013 #2

Agree pscot Nov 2013 #4

Depends on the meaning of rare. If rare means that you improve general conditions (access to birth Mass Nov 2013 #3

I think the word "rare" is problematic as it ignores how desperately more clinics are needed... bettyellen Nov 2013 #11

Believing that abortion should be rare Ms. Toad Nov 2013 #63

It's not about 'ceding' the damn word. It's about not using a measure of frequency in policy or PeaceNikki Nov 2013 #77

I'm pretty sure the majority of folks who are pro-choice... Wounded Bear Nov 2013 #5

There have been recent posts that suggest that focusing on those issues is a form of "slut shaming" el_bryanto Nov 2013 #6

That's what I would mean by the concept of "legal but rare." Jackpine Radical Nov 2013 #7

No one cares what people 'believe' women should do leftstreet Nov 2013 #8

Well - i don't know about that el_bryanto Nov 2013 #13

Exactly leftstreet Nov 2013 #14

So even discussing Abortion is making it my business? el_bryanto Nov 2013 #16

Not if you're pondering getting one n/t leftstreet Nov 2013 #21

I'm not really eligible I suppose - so I should preferably keep my opinions to myself on this issue. el_bryanto Nov 2013 #24

Well then I suppose requests HappyMe Nov 2013 #23

You miss the point leftstreet Nov 2013 #25

I don't think it would have been HappyMe Nov 2013 #26

The politicians made sure of that leftstreet Nov 2013 #30

It is sad that they have been able to influence legislation. HappyMe Nov 2013 #33

No. I think that the rare HappyMe Nov 2013 #9

You understand that's not what it means for everybody right? nt el_bryanto Nov 2013 #10

Yes. HappyMe Nov 2013 #12

I would guess most pro choice people believe this LittleBlue Nov 2013 #15

But what do they mean by rare? el_bryanto Nov 2013 #17

They see abortion as a bad thing LittleBlue Nov 2013 #20

Not objectively. But they provide most of the cover for anti-choicers. cthulu2016 Nov 2013 #18

How can they not be objectively anti choice and yet provide most of the cover el_bryanto Nov 2013 #22

Because Orwell used 'objectively' in a tricky way cthulu2016 Nov 2013 #32

That's a fair point - I did use the Orwell Language (filtered through my memories of the Bush Years) el_bryanto Nov 2013 #34

I agree with you cthulu2016 Nov 2013 #35

Maybe. Not enough information. MadrasT Nov 2013 #19

cntraception and education come first, duh librechik Nov 2013 #27

Clearly they feel the right to keep count and set limits. Other people's bodies are for them to Bluenorthwest Nov 2013 #28

So this goes beyond mere ignorance in your opinion - people who use this language el_bryanto Nov 2013 #31

No, I don't think that's the issue. sibelian Nov 2013 #40

We'll assume you aren't suggesting oversight/rationing. MADem Nov 2013 #29

2 separate issues. I don't know why they get conflated. Lex Nov 2013 #36

They get conflated because some people who choose to have an abortion are punished el_bryanto Nov 2013 #37

No woman is chomping at the bit to have Lex Nov 2013 #43

To me, rare means abortion should only be performed Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #38

Gonna try to explain pipi_k Nov 2013 #39

Affordable (and available) contraception Revanchist Nov 2013 #88

I look at actual abortion like the Emergency Room. bobclark86 Nov 2013 #41

what does one's personal opinion matter if they think it should be legal? dionysus Nov 2013 #42

The argument is, as I understand it, that if you are in favor of keeping abortion legal el_bryanto Nov 2013 #44

i see. i think there are good reasons for having abortions, and bad ones. each case is unique. but dionysus Nov 2013 #45

What are bad reasons to have an abortion? I guess that would be my one question nt el_bryanto Nov 2013 #47

this story is an outlier, i would assume, but there was the case of this girl in college that dionysus Nov 2013 #48

That is a disturbing story, and I don't doubt that it happened and happens el_bryanto Nov 2013 #49

oh, anti choicers would have a field day with that. but i don't think the sort of thing i witnessed dionysus Nov 2013 #50

Rare would include other forms of birth control being readily available Blue_In_AK Nov 2013 #46

I think most people mean it in the sense Demobrat Nov 2013 #51

Legal but rare means that education and contraceptives are easily avaiable to all women Agnosticsherbet Nov 2013 #52

No. There are two types of pro-choice people: redgreenandblue Nov 2013 #53

But does the former create cover for those who think that Abortion should be illegal? el_bryanto Nov 2013 #55

I am almost certain that this is a logical fallacy. redgreenandblue Nov 2013 #58

You left off at least one type fried eggs Nov 2013 #81

You're conflating people who say "rare" because they want to restrict abortion with people winter is coming Nov 2013 #54

The problem is that words mean things. And using language like "rare" is dangerous. PeaceNikki Nov 2013 #57

Whoosh. Of course the word "rare" is subjective. That's why it can't and shouldn't winter is coming Nov 2013 #66

whoosh? whatever, you are ceding a fucking word. the "rare" verbiage was pulled from platform for a PeaceNikki Nov 2013 #67

What's asinine is attempting to label pro-choice people anti-choice because they haven't winter is coming Nov 2013 #68

uh. I haven't. PeaceNikki Nov 2013 #69

No, but they give strength to anti-choicers. PeaceNikki Nov 2013 #56

So they are effectively anti-choice? el_bryanto Nov 2013 #59

I don't know if I'd frame it that way. PeaceNikki Nov 2013 #60

What's the distinction then? el_bryanto Nov 2013 #61

Well, you're free to frame it that way and I totally get your reasoning. PeaceNikki Nov 2013 #62

Just so I'm not deceiving anybody - I do fit into category 1 el_bryanto Nov 2013 #65

To me "rare" mean trying to prevent unwanted pregnancies in the first place Marrah_G Nov 2013 #64

similar to those who believe in "secular gay marriage" but also believe being gay is immoral La Lioness Priyanka Nov 2013 #70

I read this a few times and still don't get it. Nye Bevan Nov 2013 #76

yes, i have met a few people. usually extremely religious but with a strong belief that govt should La Lioness Priyanka Nov 2013 #78

I know a local Pentecostal who believes the same. xmas74 Nov 2013 #94

well thanks for confirming that i wasn't the only person who knew these people La Lioness Priyanka Nov 2013 #95

And the same to you. xmas74 Nov 2013 #96

Abortion is a medical procedure that solves a problem. dawg Nov 2013 #71

It stigmatizes women's health care choices. It implies that it's a decision that should NOT be made. PeaceNikki Nov 2013 #72

I don't think it stigmatizes anything, although some may choose to defensively take it that way. dawg Nov 2013 #79

it is not a matter of being defensive. PeaceNikki Nov 2013 #80

The more I read, the more I realize this is a really interesting and nuanced issue. dawg Nov 2013 #83

thanks. yes, I think the phrase was effective at the time. but we're evolving PeaceNikki Nov 2013 #84

I think most of us want the same thing. It's just semantics fried eggs Nov 2013 #85

abortion is faaaar safer than carrying to term and delivery PeaceNikki Nov 2013 #86

so here's a thought: stop using the word open to interpretation PeaceNikki Nov 2013 #87

I was really surprised the first time I read that War Horse Nov 2013 #73

It means for me .. ananda Nov 2013 #74

No, we think abortion should be legal, and accessible when needed, Nye Bevan Nov 2013 #75

I don't know. I've always thought of "legal but rare" as a PC position, nyquil_man Nov 2013 #82

No. They believe in making contraceptives available & cheap... Hekate Nov 2013 #89

Anti-choice means you don't think the person should have the option, Yo_Mama Nov 2013 #90

Why wouldn't you want it to be rare? Courtesy Flush Nov 2013 #91

It would be nice if it was naturally rare krispos42 Nov 2013 #92

I believe it should be legal and on demand but rare all at the same time. xmas74 Nov 2013 #93

Depends on if they're trying to legislate from that belief. Warren DeMontague Nov 2013 #97

Nope LostOne4Ever Nov 2013 #98