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davidn3600

(6,342 posts)

56. Im advocating for those who are truly innocent

Sat Dec 28, 2013, 12:34 AM

Dec 2013

I know someone who went to prison for a crime they didnt commit. It does happen. The ACLU and Innocence Project says up to 5% of prisoners today are truly innocent of the crimes they were convicted of. Innocent people have been released from prison after decades. So yes, innocent people go to prison. And I personally find that to be a travesty.

However there are some here who feel that by saying that so few women lie about an accusation, that it shouldnt bother be considered that an accuser could be lying. And that ultimately, it should be the accused that has to prove themselves innocent. That's not how the system works. You have to prove the accused guilty, which ultimately means the burden is on the prosecutor...and unfortunately the victim.

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(edited title) False allegations of rape and domestic violence are few and far between [View all] redqueen Dec 2013 OP

And the MRA group will blather on about every one they can find... Ohio Joe Dec 2013 #1

What else have they got? Egalitarian Thug Dec 2013 #12

Is that the He Mans Woman Haters Club? zappaman Dec 2013 #19

Non other (pre-Darla of course). n/t Egalitarian Thug Dec 2013 #23

and use one case to excuse every single rapist BainsBane Dec 2013 #52

Where is this group? I like to see these posts about their oppression Katashi_itto Dec 2013 #103

No... I don't think you do Ohio Joe Dec 2013 #124

And despite that... K.O. Stradivarius Dec 2013 #2

Well you'll be happy to know gollygee Dec 2013 #3

That's of small comfort to the innocent person K.O. Stradivarius Dec 2013 #13

Yes it is horrible for someone wrongly imprisoned gollygee Dec 2013 #14

bully for you. rape... pffft. nt seabeyond Dec 2013 #9

Yeah... bully for you too. K.O. Stradivarius Dec 2013 #24

Well perhaps when you are raped and your rapist walks free you may feel differently. Sheldon Cooper Dec 2013 #43

So 99 raped human beings mean less to you than one? ismnotwasm Dec 2013 #58

The justice system is imperfect for every issue it handles treestar Dec 2013 #70

Really? treestar Dec 2013 #69

You know that you actually wrote these words, right? Squinch Dec 2013 #83

what you are arguing is that no crime should EVER be prosecuted. seabeyond Dec 2013 #92

99 victims worth < 1 falsely convicted. Gormy Cuss Dec 2013 #93

That's an odd response - first of all as is pointed out above el_bryanto Dec 2013 #15

No, sadly it isn't. redqueen Dec 2013 #22

It's easy to make that sacrifice when it's not you or a family member who is falsely accused davidn3600 Dec 2013 #28

0.6% of rape cases. That implies that 99.4% of the time the accused is guilty el_bryanto Dec 2013 #31

I was making a hypothetical..but... davidn3600 Dec 2013 #33

Fall on the sword? He never said anything even remotely resembling that. redqueen Dec 2013 #34

And nobody here ever said that they are common... davidn3600 Dec 2013 #38

Really? Hmm... I could've sworn I'd seen the 45%+ claim posted here. redqueen Dec 2013 #41

Do you really see that happening here? whopis01 Dec 2013 #95

That's an even odder response el_bryanto Dec 2013 #37

You don't prove innocence in this country...that's not how it works davidn3600 Dec 2013 #39

OK - than if the State can make their case they should pay the price. el_bryanto Dec 2013 #42

Im advocating for those who are truly innocent davidn3600 Dec 2013 #56

And no one said your second paragraph treestar Dec 2013 #71

So crimes shouldn't be prosecuted? Because I'm not seeing anything else that would Squinch Dec 2013 #85

But the premise is ridiculous. It is the same as saying that murderers should go free because some Squinch Dec 2013 #84

Not at all. K.O. Stradivarius Dec 2013 #29

Nods - well I can see how their experience might be relevant el_bryanto Dec 2013 #32

apples to not-remotely-apples comparison you've suggested there. Schema Thing Dec 2013 #49

Why does one experience matter more than the other? nt el_bryanto Dec 2013 #51

So you would rather 99 women were raped intaglio Dec 2013 #78

The 99 guilty persons going free represent many multiples of 99 women being Squinch Dec 2013 #82

Would you say the same thing about murder and theft? athena Dec 2013 #120

When it comes to rape, you are getting your wish. NCTraveler Dec 2013 #121

I expect a flurry of posts etherealtruth Dec 2013 #4

just general dismissal and rather see 99 rapist go free so that .6 of a person does not go to jail seabeyond Dec 2013 #11

Whether it's .01% or 50% it doesn't make any difference when it comes to an individual trial davidn3600 Dec 2013 #5

Did anyone say anything you're suggesting people said? gollygee Dec 2013 #7

No they didn't. treestar Dec 2013 #72

derail. it matters because of using a claim of 45%-75% dismisses rape of our girls and women. seabeyond Dec 2013 #8

I'm talking about trials and juries, not the police davidn3600 Dec 2013 #17

what you are arguing is that no crime should EVER be prosecuted. seabeyond Dec 2013 #91

Lovely distraction. jeff47 Dec 2013 #45

Uh, yes we DO have to worry about rape accusations and acquittal sibelian Dec 2013 #89

Are you worried about people struck by lightning? jeff47 Dec 2013 #96

thank you redq. UK taking htis seriously. GOOD. it always made sense false claims would be LOWER seabeyond Dec 2013 #6

Since so many people work so hard to push the illusion that false rape allegations are common redqueen Dec 2013 #25

35 false accusations of rape in a year is still 35 too many Nye Bevan Dec 2013 #10

35 rapes a year is 35 too many rapes as well. gollygee Dec 2013 #16

+1. nt LisaLynne Dec 2013 #18

Of course false accusations are not acceptable etherealtruth Dec 2013 #20

No legal system is ever going to be perfect treestar Dec 2013 #73

This message was self-deleted by its author Demo_Chris Dec 2013 #21

So men accused of rape should be considered guilty from the start? Skip Intro Dec 2013 #26

Oh yes, that's totally the point. LisaLynne Dec 2013 #27

No, the point is when people say that false rape allegations are common, they're either ignorant redqueen Dec 2013 #30

Yes, it harms both sexes, so it's not just men vs women. Some insist on framing it that way, freshwest Dec 2013 #48

You aren't that stupid. jeff47 Dec 2013 #46

No. treestar Dec 2013 #74

Well, maybe the point is that a small percentages of allegations are false. Squinch Dec 2013 #87

"Rape investigations 'undermined by belief that false accusations are rife'" Cerridwen Dec 2013 #35

"Rape investigations 'undermined by belief that false accusations are rife'" redqueen Dec 2013 #36

That is what happens when "common knowledge" is manufactured Cerridwen Dec 2013 #40

You are the queen of great sources! Squinch Dec 2013 #86

Thank you. Actually, I'm a bookworm and a nerd. Cerridwen Dec 2013 #104

I, too, have embraced my nerd. I think it is my best quality. Squinch Dec 2013 #106

What was the pain of my childhood now becomes an honor. Cerridwen Dec 2013 #109

LOL! Oh, please do! Squinch Dec 2013 #110

:D Cerridwen Dec 2013 #112

Now, Everybody! Squinch Dec 2013 #117

It works both ways, unfortunately. How many times did I read here pnwmom Dec 2013 #54

You forgot Tawana Brawley. Cerridwen Dec 2013 #102

I don't believe and I never said that false accusations are common. BUT pnwmom Dec 2013 #105

You said, "It works both ways, unfortunately." Cerridwen Dec 2013 #107

No, it doesn't. n/t pnwmom Dec 2013 #108

I will now bow out and you can have the final word in the Cerridwen Dec 2013 #111

That's misleading. You can't base that statistic on prosecutions, because prosecutors are reluctant Zorra Dec 2013 #44

Based on what? jeff47 Dec 2013 #47

The general point is true, though. The number of prosecuted rapes pnwmom Dec 2013 #53

The percentage should be roughly consistent. jeff47 Dec 2013 #55

I don't know how we can make that assumption. pnwmom Dec 2013 #57

Those reasons couldn't possibly turn 0.6% into 3%. jeff47 Dec 2013 #59

yes they well could dsc Dec 2013 #94

And that relies on the false assumption that false accusations are less likely to get prosecuted. jeff47 Dec 2013 #97

apparently you didn't bother to read my post dsc Dec 2013 #101

And again, we have no real reason to believe that there's a difference jeff47 Dec 2013 #113

You are conflating two different things. dsc Dec 2013 #116

Lying isn't the barrier to prosecution. jeff47 Dec 2013 #128

you have no earthly idea if 3% is high or not dsc Dec 2013 #129

Actually, I do. jeff47 Dec 2013 #130

then they would never be prosecuted dsc Dec 2013 #131

Nah, since the FBI says the stat is 8%, and rq's figure is 0.6%, it seemed Zorra Dec 2013 #98

8% unfounded. now, read up what unfounded consists of. not fighting off rape ect... really want to seabeyond Dec 2013 #99

True. That's another reason why I estimated around 1.5% - 2%. nt Zorra Dec 2013 #100

As Someone Who Has Been the Subject of a False Domestic Violence Call On the Road Dec 2013 #50

It's 0.5% for false domestic violence allegations. nt redqueen Dec 2013 #60

For prosecutions of false domestic violence allegations. pnwmom Dec 2013 #61

It seems what is shown is only .6% of rape charges end up being prosecuted for false charges. TheKentuckian Dec 2013 #62

Someone needs a lesson in statistics. Savannahmann Dec 2013 #63

Yes, add to that 27% in England is where abortion access is not an issue. Here in US it is. Festivito Dec 2013 #65

The standard of proof in criminal trials before British courts... Spider Jerusalem Dec 2013 #67

Yes... sibelian Dec 2013 #64

This is NOT a study, it is not even SCIENCE. Drahthaardogs Dec 2013 #66

The Crown Prosecution Service is biased intaglio Dec 2013 #79

Um, it's called RESEARCH BIAS Drahthaardogs Dec 2013 #81

That is one of the dumbest justifications ever treestar Dec 2013 #68

I can spot two methodological problems here Prophet 451 Dec 2013 #75

Just goes to show.. sendero Dec 2013 #80

The study concludes the charge that false allegations are rife is wrong. In examining false retread Dec 2013 #76

0.6% is about the same as gun owners who commit crimes with their guns The Straight Story Dec 2013 #77

This message was self-deleted by its author redqueen Dec 2013 #88

Oh goody, another torturing of ACTUAL statistics .... 99Forever Dec 2013 #90

I'm sure you're aware that various studies, using various methodologies, Jackpine Radical Dec 2013 #114

Not to mention, many of those falsely accused of rape KitSileya Dec 2013 #115

The largest single cause of false convictions of all sorts Jackpine Radical Dec 2013 #119

I don't dispute that. KitSileya Dec 2013 #122

This is what happens when people follow their holy books- snooper2 Dec 2013 #118

Good edit. False allegations of rape are not common. And rape is way more common Zorra Dec 2013 #123

That jives with RAINN stats too. KitSileya Dec 2013 #127

True.. but take my word for it, when it happens SomethingFishy Dec 2013 #125

Thank you! riqster Dec 2013 #126