General Discussion

great white snark

(2,646 posts)

153. Including a government shut down.

Reply to treestar (Reply #144)

Mon Dec 19, 2011, 04:31 PM

Dec 2011

Reality escapes some DUers.

Not you treestar, you inject much needed realty checks.

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This is not a game, people [View all] LuckyTheDog Dec 2011 OP

Obama is still better HockeyMom Dec 2011 #1

this is more key than anything demtenjeep Dec 2011 #4

I prefer 4 more years of stalemate to even one day coalition_unwilling Dec 2011 #57

You're right tawadi Dec 2011 #2

"sitting out the election" Some people may say that here, but I truly believe that when teddy51 Dec 2011 #3

we'll probably need more than votes. MH1 Dec 2011 #7

I will be voting for him as well. n/t teddy51 Dec 2011 #16

Obama will not have i_sometimes Dec 2011 #119

"the machine" ??? Please expand on this. It's not my experience WheelWalker Dec 2011 #139

Excuse me... i_sometimes Dec 2011 #207

I can't see how anyone would sit out the election with both houses of Congress at stake. GoCubsGo Dec 2011 #17

To make a statement and to be true to their values. gateley Dec 2011 #39

Sorry, but those jobs went down the tube with the Bill Clinton NAFTA agreement, as Ross Perot teddy51 Dec 2011 #45

We are in deep shit - no argument from me. Those jobs are gone but with the Republicans gateley Dec 2011 #53

NAFTA was a *DEMOCRATIC* policy, gateley. nt Romulox Dec 2011 #74

no it was not hfojvt Dec 2011 #85

This is why I read DU - to get the real story behind the headlines. Thank you! gtar100 Dec 2011 #99

Well, HERE is the undisputed Video PROOF of the REAL story: bvar22 Dec 2011 #118

Ross Perot, in my mind; greiner3 Dec 2011 #149

Perot was 100% correct on NAFTA; Al Gore was 100% wrong. Until Al can admit his mistake, Romulox Dec 2011 #162

That does NOT discount the FACT that Bill Clinton & The Democratic Party... bvar22 Dec 2011 #186

That was my concern about Hillary, too. After all, the DLC was their baby. nt gateley Dec 2011 #102

I'm afraid that's the "No True Scotsman" fallacy. President Clinton was the leader of the Party, Romulox Dec 2011 #104

I understand that -- and it was wrong. I just think if the Republicans were gateley Dec 2011 #101

Are you a fan of President Obama's expansion of Free Trade Treaties, bvar22 Dec 2011 #187

Don't know where the fuck that question came from, but no, I'm not a fan of anything gateley Dec 2011 #208

Its right up there ^^^ in your post #101 bvar22 Dec 2011 #209

It doesn't say any such thing -- that's what you chose to project and read into it. gateley Dec 2011 #210

George HW bush signed the NAFTA agreement on December 17th 1992 JohnnyRingo Dec 2011 #145

LOL. Nice try at revisionism: "President Bill Clinton - Remarks on the Signing of NAFTA" Romulox Dec 2011 #154

I didn't pose those pix JohnnyRingo Dec 2011 #175

I know you didn't. But your pictures don't show NAFTA's ratification into US law. From wiki: Romulox Dec 2011 #177

This entire thread was spawned by a simple statement you made: JohnnyRingo Dec 2011 #185

Touche' bvar22 Dec 2011 #191

NAFTA was a total Poppy Bush legacy... IthinkThereforeIAM Dec 2011 #92

Thanks for the background info on this. dgibby Dec 2011 #100

No argument other than to say that Bill Clinton was President when NAFTA was passed. n/t teddy51 Dec 2011 #107

And Clinton signed it. And Al Gore campaigned on TV for it. But other than that, NOTHING. Romulox Dec 2011 #111

Poppy Bush *made* Al Gore appear on Larry King Live to debate Ross Perot? That's silly. Romulox Dec 2011 #108

So Poppy Bush and David Rockefeller... IthinkThereforeIAM Dec 2011 #114

Clinton signed it. I just gave you a link to Al Gore *EVANGELIZING* over it. They own it. nt Romulox Dec 2011 #120

It is Right There ^ in the VIDEOS, bvar22 Dec 2011 #125

Can you please explain fast track legislation? intersectionality Dec 2011 #201

This, I can't believe the cognitive dissonance going on siligut Dec 2011 #68

Irony alert! The Ross Perot "giant sucking sound" was a reference to Clinton/Gore's NAFTA. What Romulox Dec 2011 #72

Gee, I didin't know that! gateley Dec 2011 #103

To invoke "giant sucking sound" to argue that "we must vote for Dems" lacks self-awareness Romulox Dec 2011 #105

Well then, have no self-awareness or historical awareness. Okay? gateley Dec 2011 #152

You're hurting the cause you profess to help through this lack of awareness. That's the point. nt Romulox Dec 2011 #156

I'm not hurting anything. Nobody gives a fuck what I say except for people gateley Dec 2011 #157

OK. Spout self-contradictory nonsense all day long, then. None of this matters. Romulox Dec 2011 #160

I don't agree it was an embarrassing mistake, so not going to admit gateley Dec 2011 #163

There's that lack of self-awareness, to which I refer, above. nt Romulox Dec 2011 #165

I posted my response to myself! Ha! Now THAT'S a mistake. gateley Dec 2011 #166

You're coming off as defensive and needy, now. Not attractive! nt Romulox Dec 2011 #169

Again, what do you care? Trying to help me, are you? nt gateley Dec 2011 #171

No... Perot was speaking to GHW Bush in a 1992 debate when he made that famous quote. JohnnyRingo Dec 2011 #146

Bizarre revisionism! He was referring to NAFTA, signed by President Clinton in 1993. Romulox Dec 2011 #164

Have you ever watched Fraggle Rock about how a bill becomes a law? JohnnyRingo Dec 2011 #176

This would be funny, but no, it's sad. I gave you the Wiki entry on the subject, above. You could Romulox Dec 2011 #180

And you mean SCHOOLHOUSE Rock. nt Romulox Dec 2011 #182

Obama has my vote BUT! sce56 Dec 2011 #143

Both houses of Congress AND the next Supreme Court nominees Mister Ed Dec 2011 #44

"the most powerful person on Earth"? bvar22 Dec 2011 #194

Post removed Post removed Dec 2011 #69

Evidence that DU led the charge? Luminous Animal Dec 2011 #83

DU was the site of many things, and many argued about the potential consquences. Capn Sunshine Dec 2011 #188

"I'm going to stay home to teach the Democrats a lesson!" bvar22 Dec 2011 #198

Ridiculous kenfrequed Dec 2011 #96

Thanks-very well said! tfsoccer Dec 2011 #117

Thanks kenfrequed Dec 2011 #155

If you have any doubts that Obama is doing everything he can with constitutional constraints, no_hypocrisy Dec 2011 #5

Good point about the GOP being helpless to block Obama's military decisions Mister Ed Dec 2011 #50

You are wrong about why Obama left Iraq. He was forced to, because his coalition_unwilling Dec 2011 #58

President Obama merely complied with Iraq SOFA negotiated by Bush-the-Lesser: bvar22 Dec 2011 #129

Obama did everything he could druidity33 Dec 2011 #172

This talking point does not make a lot of sense treestar Dec 2011 #199

It's not a talking point, it's a fact: Obama admin attempted to renegotiate SOFA JackRiddler Jan 2012 #212

If you want to persuade people to your side, ZombieHorde Dec 2011 #6

Yes, I was going to mention that, thanks for saving me the trouble. sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #13

You don't have to support him LuckyTheDog Dec 2011 #28

OK, what DID you expect? LuckyTheDog Dec 2011 #25

I expected JEB Dec 2011 #32

In other words... LuckyTheDog Dec 2011 #36

I guess JEB Dec 2011 #42

Those headwinds were not overpowering when Obama came in with a mandate... wakemewhenitsover Dec 2011 #61

Exactly Charlemagne Dec 2011 #116

Running to the right of REAGAN on many issues Doctor_J Dec 2011 #158

Since he and Clinton ran the same campaign, ZombieHorde Dec 2011 #47

Excellent post. n/t myrna minx Dec 2011 #64

I expected for him to frame the his agenda with democratic arguments and not myrna minx Dec 2011 #63

well yes - that was his biggest failing that he certainly did have control over Douglas Carpenter Dec 2011 #70

Persuasion? Choice A: Pres. Obama. Choice B: a repubican. How can you NOT be persuaded? 66 dmhlt Dec 2011 #33

Exactly (nt) LuckyTheDog Dec 2011 #206

He needs a chance Old Codger Dec 2011 #8

Yes, and with the expiring Bush tax cuts... IthinkThereforeIAM Dec 2011 #95

Please stop spewing that canard Doctor_J Dec 2011 #161

He has Old Codger Dec 2011 #168

Newt Gingrich's America get the red out Dec 2011 #9

obama is the lamest democratic party president in my memory... mike_c Dec 2011 #10

You and 536 others like you gave us Bush in 2000. On behalf of the thousands ... 11 Bravo Dec 2011 #23

in fact I voted for Al Gore in 2000.... mike_c Dec 2011 #24

That was a really Charlemagne Dec 2011 #122

The Supreme Court gave us Bush in 2000 sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #48

A big thanks, sabrina.. russspeakeasy Dec 2011 #81

Yep. It was a coup that installed BUSH/CHENEY, nothing else. bobthedrummer Dec 2011 #124

You don't get to pin the Iraq war on people who didn't vote for Gore MNBrewer Dec 2011 #76

Nope Charlemagne Dec 2011 #121

Wrong. Fraud in Florida and an unconstitutional SC decision did that. JackRiddler Jan 2012 #213

Newt thanks you (nt) LuckyTheDog Dec 2011 #29

On the day of the end of the Iraq war, one of his top campaign promises Bolo Boffin Dec 2011 #35

It's not over, it's just privatized now. Zhade Dec 2011 #59

after prolonging it unnecessarily for three more years...? mike_c Dec 2011 #193

Really? How long is your memory? frazzled Dec 2011 #79

Then why worry about the people who don't cheerlead for Obama? djean111 Dec 2011 #94

No one asked you to work for him frazzled Dec 2011 #141

Is he more lame than Bill Clinton? JohnnyRingo Dec 2011 #136

agreed-- I'm not a big fan of Clinton, either... mike_c Dec 2011 #190

Since you don't care for Democrats who have served, and you despise all Republicans... JohnnyRingo Dec 2011 #195

Thanks for Bush too, Mike KrevichNavel Dec 2011 #147

If Gingrinch takes power, the USA will cease to exist. roamer65 Dec 2011 #11

because the sky will have fallen on it BOG PERSON Dec 2011 #14

I think USA already cease to exist. Bryn Dec 2011 #184

I've been disappointed because I expected him to at least try n/t inademv Dec 2011 #12

that attitude is a disaster Enrique Dec 2011 #15

Really? LuckyTheDog Dec 2011 #26

"I get that" Skittles Dec 2011 #18

you're right that it's not a game ... BOG PERSON Dec 2011 #19

+1 Charlemagne Dec 2011 #126

I feel bad for people that held Obama up on such a high pedestal like some God. Newsflash: FarLeftFist Dec 2011 #20

+1 boxman15 Dec 2011 #27

So the only reason Charlemagne Dec 2011 #127

But Fox News said he was the most liberal senator in the history of the country! JohnnyRingo Dec 2011 #148

We have a couple other REALLY BIG challenges in the coming year - both houses of the Congress housewolf Dec 2011 #21

WE have the solution now donttazemebro Dec 2011 #22

Let's play monopoly unionworks Dec 2011 #30

Lube or dry? Take it dry. You might just get mad enough... TheMadMonk Dec 2011 #31

Well, I am not dumb enought to sit out the election or vote for a Republican. RebelOne Dec 2011 #34

I like Hillary as well, and would be glad to see her in the WH, but here's the problem: JohnnyRingo Dec 2011 #150

We are not happy, but you are correct, Gingrich or Romney would destroy this country..nt. Stuart G Dec 2011 #37

k&r Liberal_in_LA Dec 2011 #38

I've been disappointed in Obama at times Terra Alta Dec 2011 #40

Obama could care less about you or your family. lib2DaBone Dec 2011 #43

And Newt, Romney, etc. DOES care about me and my family? Terra Alta Dec 2011 #46

You're spot on madokie Dec 2011 #41

"This is not a game, people" unkachuck Dec 2011 #49

Vote for a Repuke/ No way. Write in Dennis? You Bet. jerseyjack Dec 2011 #51

Same thing LuckyTheDog Dec 2011 #204

We will all vote for Obama. JDPriestly Dec 2011 #52

Thank You So Very Much Sherman A1 Dec 2011 #54

Indeed, there is a time when holding one's nose and coalition_unwilling Dec 2011 #55

Yes it appears that Obama is the best butthead to vote for, of the two parties. However, if we... webDude Dec 2011 #56

Yep Charlemagne Dec 2011 #130

This 'lesser evil' argument is getting stale Betty Karlson Dec 2011 #60

I will vote for him even if I have to hold my nose and carry a barf bag. hobbit709 Dec 2011 #62

LoL sellitman Dec 2011 #112

Like Obama said, don't compare him to perfection. Compare him to the alternative. lunatica Dec 2011 #65

I expected him to overcome the filibuster since it was easily done using reconciliation. eomer Dec 2011 #66

I'll vote for him, hell, what choice do I have? Faith No More Dec 2011 #67

But it is a game,a DU game. sufrommich Dec 2011 #71

That veto pen must be really heavy. Poor guy. n/t lumberjack_jeff Dec 2011 #73

Thank you advocate for gridlock and the 1% hegemony... Moostache Dec 2011 #75

In some ways it is a game. Deep13 Dec 2011 #77

I'll say it again, because it bears repeating: Obama is the best we are going to get Taverner Dec 2011 #78

He doesn't need your money Charlemagne Dec 2011 #131

Absolutely Taverner Dec 2011 #203

oh that is just hilarious hfojvt Dec 2011 #80

Thanks hfojvt... well said... russspeakeasy Dec 2011 #84

+1 deutsey Dec 2011 #87

Well said, but I HOPE there's something you/we don't know... tfsoccer Dec 2011 #113

This post Charlemagne Dec 2011 #133

You're leaving out so much there treestar Dec 2011 #144

Including a government shut down. great white snark Dec 2011 #153

Well said. Maven Dec 2011 #200

How about just once... SixthSense Dec 2011 #82

Where's the source for those? They are great! Luminous Animal Dec 2011 #89

democracy was supposed to prevent this shit, right? blaming the politicians doesn't help. certainot Dec 2011 #97

I learned my lesson in 1980 corkhead Dec 2011 #86

Have DU'er advocated sitting 2012 out? I haven't seen that... Scuba Dec 2011 #88

Several in this thread alone have advocated that LuckyTheDog Dec 2011 #205

Here is a real dose of reality nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #90

That should be an OP hifiguy Dec 2011 #142

Sorry, thrid party... joeybee12 Dec 2011 #91

i agree. and IMO there will be a shitload more trolls this cycle, internet and paid radio callers certainot Dec 2011 #93

Like FDR, Obama needed to stand up LOUD against GOP's Blocking! tfsoccer Dec 2011 #98

Obama not addressing ANY of the needs of 99% to kiss the bums of the 1% isn't a game either. Lionessa Dec 2011 #106

Obama should throw us a bone Charlemagne Dec 2011 #109

YES! tfsoccer Dec 2011 #110

Right on. That's much of the problem I have with Obama mvd Dec 2011 #183

Obama has my vote too! liberal N proud Dec 2011 #115

I'm more worried about Puzzledtraveller Dec 2011 #123

I am disappointed in his lack of Autumn Dec 2011 #128

If you DONT live in a swing state Charlemagne Dec 2011 #132

This is becoming repetitious zipplewrath Dec 2011 #134

Who has ever advocated voting for the GOP? CrispyQ Dec 2011 #135

Nothing Obama has done is anywhere near as bad as what the GOP contenders say they will do. n/t Ian David Dec 2011 #137

The choice is really between dying slowly or dying quickly Vinnie From Indy Dec 2011 #138

I will in all likelihood vote for him hifiguy Dec 2011 #140

Some clarification is needed, please. truedelphi Dec 2011 #151

Sorry but I will not vote for a so-called "lesser of two evils" Xicano Dec 2011 #159

A very valid point slay Dec 2011 #181

Thank you for saying what needs to be said. nt FLyellowdog Dec 2011 #167

This just smacks my gob. I responded with a PARAPHRASED gateley Dec 2011 #170

"Vote for Democrats or else you'll hear the giant sucking sound" = LOL for anyone who remembers '93. Romulox Dec 2011 #174

All that I expected was for him to at least make an attempt to do the things he said he would do. bowens43 Dec 2011 #173

I'm not sure just voting against the republicans is a winning tactic slay Dec 2011 #178

Remember why people voted for Nader because there was no difference between Gore and Bush? wildeyed Dec 2011 #179

It's a sad state of affairs to have to remind people of the obvious. Phlem Dec 2011 #189

I registered to vote this year. Crippled or no, I'm getting there to vote for Obama. n/t Akoto Dec 2011 #192

You speak... deathrind Dec 2011 #196

I'll vote for him....... vi5 Dec 2011 #197

Amen. silverweb Dec 2011 #202

This thread needs an encore nt siligut Jan 2012 #211