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H2O Man

(73,558 posts)
Sun Jan 5, 2014, 03:26 PM Jan 2014

Rickety Woo [View all]

My children's pediotrician became a close personal friend. He saved my oldest son's life, when my boy was a tiny infant, misdiagnosed by two other doctors. That was 30 years ago this month, and even after that amount of years, remembering that period of time brings up some emotions. I think that a story about him might shed some light on one of the current "controversies" being debated on DU:GD
.
My friend was a faculty member at Syracuse University. He was highly respected in the medical community. He was also on the board of the NYS Museum's Iroquois Studies. His passions had areas of overlap: for example, he knew that Onondaga children were the only group that did not suffer from diabetes. Children from the other nations of the Confederacy have much lower rates of childhood diabetes than the rest of the country, but Onondaga still stood out.

At this time, this is certainly a topic of interest for the United States. It may not be the #1 issue confronting our society, but it has areas overlapping the larger issue of "health care" in our country.

A question at the starting point of considering why this small sub-culture doesn't have childhood diabetes would be is it genetics or environment -- or, of course, a combination of the two? Since virtually all Onondaga people have some Celtic DNA, due to interactions between the Iroquois and Euro-Americans in the colonial era, my friend wanted to study differences in life-style; these include diet, ways of dealing with stress, family support systems, etc.

Repeated attempts to gain the access such a study required proved frustrating for my friend. He never got a "yes" or "no" response from the nation's leaders. As we came to know one another, my friend realized I could assist in his gaining that access. Hence, on weekends, my boys and I would bring him up to the Territory.

This led to some interesting discussions on related topics. For example, the Jesuit diaries from the "contact era" document how the Iroquois treated some Euro-Americans for what is known as "rickets." This was a condition the Iroquois recognized, and knew how to treat. To make a long story a little shorter, it involved boiling the inner bark of a White Pine; that tea successfully treated rickets.

For several years, my friend boiled the said bark, but could not identify what made the tea work. Yet, he knew it wasn't just in people's minds. One evening, after we returned from the Territory, something clicked in his mind: he had boiled the bark in a metal pot, whereas the Iroquois had boiled it in clay pots.

He experimented with a clay pot, a reproduction of what the Iroquois used in the pre-contact and early contact eras. And he found the answer.

I tell this story, not to advocate "woo" over "science," but rather, to suggest that having an open mind is generally a good thing.

Peace,
H2O Man

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Rickety Woo [View all] H2O Man Jan 2014 OP
recommended. spanone Jan 2014 #1
Thanks H2O Man livetohike Jan 2014 #2
Thanks from me too, 2naSalit Jan 2014 #3
Bravo! And thank you. truebluegreen Jan 2014 #4
Excellent post malaise Jan 2014 #5
Thank you. Ms. Toad Jan 2014 #6
Just to relate something similar. zeemike Jan 2014 #7
Sounds like Lorenzo's Oil ryan_cats Jan 2014 #10
Yes that sounds like it. zeemike Jan 2014 #13
Was it Jim Abrahams? Michigan-Arizona Jan 2014 #22
That sounds like it. zeemike Jan 2014 #29
You are very welcome! Michigan-Arizona Jan 2014 #31
In other countries, there is actual honest scientific research nadinbrzezinski Jan 2014 #8
as a scientist, I can offer a different perspective.... mike_c Jan 2014 #26
Alas this is what I am talking about nadinbrzezinski Jan 2014 #27
Valid points. H2O Man Jan 2014 #33
in my discipline we make a strong distinction between science and natural history... mike_c Jan 2014 #34
+1 to this post and your post before this one hueymahl Jan 2014 #50
As someone who has been jumping through hoops to get IdaBriggs Jan 2014 #57
You realize... CSStrowbridge Jan 2014 #54
I know how research is done nadinbrzezinski Jan 2014 #59
WooHoo! MyNameGoesHere Jan 2014 #9
I was just scared that "woo me with sciene" had been banned from DU MisterP Jan 2014 #30
+1000 G_j Jan 2014 #11
One would think that it would be redundant to tell the "politically liberal" posters in DU to rhett o rick Jan 2014 #12
It's fine to have an open mind... ConservativeDemocrat Jan 2014 #18
The problem I see is that a small group has decided that they can make the decision rhett o rick Jan 2014 #25
+1 a whole bunch.......nt Enthusiast Jan 2014 #36
+10 RC Jan 2014 #19
An open mind is not "woo". Bernardo de La Paz Jan 2014 #14
Recommend nt Zorra Jan 2014 #15
I'm sure the PTBs thought Galileo and Copernicus were "woo," too. Blue_In_AK Jan 2014 #16
Excellent point, Blue. Enthusiast Jan 2014 #37
No, TPTB were the ones peddling the woo. NuclearDem Jan 2014 #40
Is it not the case that the more we learn... 3catwoman3 Jan 2014 #63
Yes, that's the way I see it. Blue_In_AK Jan 2014 #65
Everything science now knows...... DeSwiss Jan 2014 #17
Absolutely. An open mind cures many aches and pains. JDPriestly Jan 2014 #20
Well Reasoned(nt) fascisthunter Jan 2014 #21
Sorry, H20 Man, but your friends story makes no sense intaglio Jan 2014 #23
But it was a natural solution from morally superior indigent people! hueymahl Jan 2014 #51
Perhaps the OP meant "scurvy", not rickets. Bernardo de La Paz Jan 2014 #60
As I pointed out in my post vitamin C becomes unstable in water intaglio Jan 2014 #61
As I pointed out, it was not necessarily boiled, and minimal amounts can survive to cure scurvy. nt Bernardo de La Paz Jan 2014 #62
No, it is the solution on water that renders vitamin C unstable intaglio Jan 2014 #64
I did read, which is why I responded the way I did. Where is the OP? Bernardo de La Paz Jan 2014 #66
OP = Original Post, the post that started this discussion intaglio Jan 2014 #67
OP = Original Poster. If you read my post that would have been clear to you. Bernardo de La Paz Jan 2014 #68
And I told you where it was intaglio Jan 2014 #69
you've also described the scientific method at work.... mike_c Jan 2014 #24
To Clay Pots and All the wonderful Plants on The Earth, H2O.. Cha Jan 2014 #28
I totally agree. Uncle Joe Jan 2014 #32
Thank you tavalon Jan 2014 #35
Having an open mind has not a DAMN THING to do with whether something is 'woo'. AtheistCrusader Jan 2014 #38
+10000000 NuclearDem Jan 2014 #41
As I said else where..... BrainDrain Jan 2014 #39
No, just the opposite. NuclearDem Jan 2014 #42
Rec'd panader0 Jan 2014 #43
Some woo turns out to be good medicine. Nitram Jan 2014 #44
indeed. I find the current "woo" war, frustrating. why does everything have cali Jan 2014 #45
rec. 840high Jan 2014 #46
Thank you, H2O Man! Octafish Jan 2014 #47
There's nothing about that story that was unscientific. Various variables were considered and geek tragedy Jan 2014 #48
Drug companies scour the world for local remedies, Progressive dog Jan 2014 #49
Best OP title ever. Bluenorthwest Jan 2014 #52
no one is against discovery La Lioness Priyanka Jan 2014 #53
I think you meant scurvy... not rickets... gcomeau Jan 2014 #55
What the hell is this 'woo' shit? blackspade Jan 2014 #56
This message was self-deleted by its author enki23 Jan 2014 #58
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