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In reply to the discussion: Managing Privilege [View all]AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)79. "It's not a difficult concept to understand." Wasn't difficult to debunk, either.
Let's face it. I have provided enough facts and reasonable arguments here to have basically won the debate here.
They can be as bigoted and prejudiced as the day is long, but in America, there is absolutely no system of institutionalized racism against Whites to back them up.
And yet, that does not prevent them from being racist on an *intrapersonal* level. It may be true that not all prejudiced people are racist, but it does not magically exclude People of Color from engaging in racist behavior. Even the SPLC disagrees with you, and they are amongst the primary experts of fighting racism in this country:
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-files/ideology/black-separatist
Black separatists typically oppose integration and racial intermarriage, and they want separate institutions or even a separate nation for black people in America. Most contemporary forms of black separatism are strongly anti-white and anti-Semitic, and a number of religious versions assert that blacks not Jews are the Biblical "chosen people" of God.
Although the Southern Poverty Law Center recognizes that much black racism in America is, at least in part, a response to centuries of white racism, it believes racism must be exposed in all its forms. White groups espousing beliefs similar to black separatists would be considered clearly racist. The same criterion should be applied to all groups regardless of their color......
If a white group espoused similar beliefs with the colors reversed, few would have trouble describing it as racist and anti-Semitic. Although the racism of a group like the Nation may be relatively easy to understand, if we seek to expose white hate groups, we cannot be in the business of explaining away the black ones.
And unfortunately, it would appear that explaining away racism that happens to be committed by Individuals of Color would also include the belief that they can't be racist in the first place.....even if that isn't the intention.
This "only whites are racist" weirdness is, quite frankly, just plain stupid, even if the intentions are actually good-hearted. It flies completely in the face of every conceivable fact there is and no amount of attempts at redefinition will ever change that. So why bother?
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Like it, but I wish the stuff under 1 was just added to the stuff under 2.
Gidney N Cloyd
Mar 2014
#2
well, one has to stop talking before one can listen. too many people decide to jump in guns blazing
geek tragedy
Mar 2014
#20
Now, we just need someone to KICK this with their evening adult beverage of choice. eom.
1StrongBlackMan
Mar 2014
#21
Its not a beverage I prefer, but before I "mellow and reflect" on my day and in my own way...
Anansi1171
Mar 2014
#29
11 PM west coast time. Not sure about the drink, unless you call Ensure an adult beverage... n/t
freshwest
Mar 2014
#294
So you're taking a position that racism in America is not systemic and institutional, right?
MrScorpio
Mar 2014
#45
If you read early on, you'll notice that I said that POCs can exhibit prejudice or bigotry
MrScorpio
Mar 2014
#48
So if Farrakhan and Kambon are bigoted to one White person, they're bigoted to all White people?
MrScorpio
Mar 2014
#60
"None." is the correct answer, which is precisely why they can't possible BE racist in America.
MrScorpio
Mar 2014
#78
"It's not a difficult concept to understand." Wasn't difficult to debunk, either.
AverageJoe90
Mar 2014
#79
As far as I'm concerned, they're confusing racism with bigotry and prejudice as well
MrScorpio
Mar 2014
#81
"only to expose (if he were honest) that his own definition doesn't work for him."
AverageJoe90
Mar 2014
#192
"Japanese people living in this country can't be racist." I'm sorry, but that is PURE baloney.
AverageJoe90
Mar 2014
#83
*Some* People of Color may. Certainly not all, though. Not even a majority.
AverageJoe90
Mar 2014
#91
Speaking for the majority of "people of color" now are we….maybe you should read the OP again?
bettyellen
Mar 2014
#93
Seems you want to elevate personal bigotry as a concern higher than systemic racism?
bettyellen
Mar 2014
#97
"Seems you want to elevate personal bigotry as a concern higher than systemic racism?" Not at all.
AverageJoe90
Mar 2014
#106
It seems you didn't learn a single thing from the OP-w/your OT about personal bigotry against white
bettyellen
Mar 2014
#107
"It's a Fox News talking point but not very convincing." How bloody ironic that is.....
AverageJoe90
Mar 2014
#112
"I am not in a small "fringe" of people" Yes, you are. No matter how many friends you claim to have.
AverageJoe90
Mar 2014
#118
Hold up- you haven't realized it's YOU with the fringe opinion here? Seriously?
bettyellen
Mar 2014
#152
this is the kind of "nuance" that informs the teabagger woldview, and it is not mainstream liberal
bettyellen
Mar 2014
#182
Your opinion seems to quite strongly color your interpretation of what I have said.
AverageJoe90
Mar 2014
#183
"since you think you know better than every African American on DU". Not true.
AverageJoe90
Mar 2014
#191
all this boils down to is you want to use the words bigot and racist interchanagably....
bettyellen
Mar 2014
#219
What you seem to ignore is that if you have a minority opinion you must change it.
AngryAmish
Mar 2014
#247
Poor baby - so opressed by liberal group think! Maybe the PC police will come visit him, LOL.
bettyellen
Mar 2014
#260
your arguments are completely based on an non-issue, i.e. "kinda rare", yet you persist.
bettyellen
Mar 2014
#151
Yep, it's a completely selfish POV, that so easily dismisses the knowledge and experiences of
bettyellen
Mar 2014
#261
Hell yes, we see folk here who have absolutely no knowledge or experience with the stuggles of
bettyellen
Mar 2014
#265
I came across the sexist version of this crap working in local politics, it was hard for me to see
bettyellen
Mar 2014
#277
It is a game of "me first", and I keep saying "what about someone else?" I think part of the reason
bettyellen
Mar 2014
#287
yep, I worked with one exceptional personal who was radically different, truly open minded.....
bettyellen
Mar 2014
#289
Yes, because he would have no social, political or economic advantages there n/t
eridani
Mar 2014
#100
Absolutely not. Because that's not how non-structural versions of racism work. nt
AverageJoe90
Mar 2014
#194
Can't argue with that, at least. I just wish it had been done better, that's all. nt
AverageJoe90
Mar 2014
#50
Finally, the perfect mix of sanctimony and self-congratulatory gallantry.
Dreamer Tatum
Mar 2014
#28
There was absolutely nothing about the graphic that suggested you should hate yourself.
Heidi
Mar 2014
#31
Many people who enjoy martyring themselves for fun often infer self-hatred from where none exists...
LanternWaste
Mar 2014
#144
It's a term used for people who identify themselves by their outward gender appearance
MrScorpio
Mar 2014
#38
Except the one lone person at the bottom of your own theoretical totem pole? And how does that
bettyellen
Mar 2014
#103
Interesting opinion... will certainly give it all the consideration it's actually worth.
LanternWaste
Mar 2014
#145
What is your point - exactly why is it important in terms of this discussion?
bettyellen
Mar 2014
#153
it's not a "point" unless you establish it's actually relevant here. It appears you cannot.
bettyellen
Mar 2014
#161
That's poking fun at the people who DON'T GET IT, not at people who have privilege.
cyberswede
Mar 2014
#180
The "them" is white people, collectively, in society. Regardless of individual situation.
cyberswede
Mar 2014
#258
As long as we never have to talk about CLASS, the PTB approve of this message. nt
Romulox
Mar 2014
#121
There's nothing in the graphic that excludes any discussion about class privilege
MrScorpio
Mar 2014
#122
LOL. First off is to even acknowledge the concept. That is rarely done, and this isn't the first
Romulox
Mar 2014
#128
Uh-huh. It sounds like you'd like to have a respectful exchange on the matter.
Romulox
Mar 2014
#138
What an odd statement. "Class" applies to People of Color as well. Things that benefit the lower
Romulox
Mar 2014
#255
The graphic IS missing a HUGE part of the discussion. And I believe it's not an accident.
Romulox
Mar 2014
#248
So, do you think that class privilege trumps race, gender or sexual orientation privilege? nt
MrScorpio
Mar 2014
#250
Nope. I think they work concurrently and reinforce one another. Like I've said all along. nt
Romulox
Mar 2014
#252
Bullshit. I never said anything like that. I said "privilege" should include class.
Romulox
Mar 2014
#137
And class is central in the same way. That wasn't expressed in the cartoon. nt
Romulox
Mar 2014
#142
Again, this is a discussion of *privilege*, and therefore a discussion of class is appropriate.
Romulox
Mar 2014
#146
This thread is about *PRIVILEGE*. It is appropriate to discuss class privilege here.
Romulox
Mar 2014
#148
Please re-read Point 1, re: dominating the discussion and dictating the language, etc. eom.
1StrongBlackMan
Mar 2014
#159
Yep. Controlling the narrative about others' experiences, or feeling entitled to control it,
Heidi
Mar 2014
#162
Unfortunately, the majority of the controlling of the narrative in this case.....
AverageJoe90
Mar 2014
#207
" But i have been reading you dominate this entire thread." A significant number of comments.....
AverageJoe90
Mar 2014
#215
This thread is about PRIVILEGE. Is it dominated by voices of the lower class? I think not.
Romulox
Mar 2014
#249
whatever class you are in will ALSO be effected by your gender, race, orientation etc....
VanillaRhapsody
Mar 2014
#229
And whatever race you are, you will ALSO be affected by class. Where is the contradiction or
Romulox
Mar 2014
#253
and more adversely so if you are a woman and or a minority and or homosexual.....
VanillaRhapsody
Mar 2014
#262
How come you think white people should get to do all the talking about Racism?
bravenak
Mar 2014
#201
"You're the one that knows more about racism than black people." Never implied such.
AverageJoe90
Mar 2014
#214
You are trying to do all the talking and all the deciding. And you come from a place of privilege.
bravenak
Mar 2014
#216
Oh, yeah. I'm just sure that one is a lifelong "democrat". I don't believe he's got a grandmother,
Squinch
Mar 2014
#185
Wait until he finds out that some of the people who work at the nursing home
Capt. Obvious
Mar 2014
#189
apparently there are parts of that choir that still need some preaching to...
VanillaRhapsody
Mar 2014
#233
"White men of all classes benefit from a system based on racial and gender inequality."
Number23
Mar 2014
#228
It is a truth that makes them very uncomfortable. That it has been slowly slipping away is why so
bettyellen
Mar 2014
#266